HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Musings on Clover Guat' cup, Lekempti, espresso extraction and is my palate broken? (8 msgs / 293 lines)
1) From: miKe mcKoffee
First to answer Les's query of yesterday morning's Lekempti 36hr rest cup. I
brewed it my "normal" way for cup of coffee: double Lungo shot 8 to 9oz
Americano. (LM double basket, pulled ~202f) The first impression was that it
tasted similar to DP Yirg' but more dried and fermenting mixed fruits. So
this morning just made Debi's first cup of the morning a DP Yirg' (now at 7
days vac'd mason jar rest) and my second cup Lekempti (now at 40hrs). First
spraying sip of Lem' says it's "waking up" noticably more than yesterday
morning, a bit brighter dance. (spraying sip like you would in cupping to
aerate to coffee and coat the entire mouth) We both took a few sips trading
cups back and forth. While yes similar distinctly different. As previously
mentioned the Yirg' reminds me more of distinct dried peaches, peach pit
aroma and as Tom say canned peaches. The Lem'sip I just now took a hint of
dried apricot at first but overall not as distinct and more a potpourri of
dried to fermented fruits. Is the Lekempti to be considered defective as
many cuppers would judge? NO! While yes heavily fermented fruity not
offensive and quite pleasing cup. Yes a bit musty but not like a Sumatra
earthy at all. And not a "classic" cup of hohum what's so special about it
anyway coffee to be sure! 
Oh, for the fun of it I weighed the empty PF with basket (558gr) then the PF
builds on my Escali kitchen scale. Yirg' 17gr, Lem' 18gr. Unfortunately this
scale isn't accurate to tenths of gr so don't know how close to the same
dosing they actually were.
Clover, Clover who's got a Clover. For those who don't know about the Clover
it's a new $8000.00us one cup of coffee at a time brewer that you can set on
the fly both brew temp and infusion time with built in SS fine mesh filter
and automatically cleans itself after brewing the cup. I believe you can
also set the cup of coffee size ranging from something like 6 to 10oz.
(Coffee brewer, not espresso.) You determine the grind fineness and dose
manually with grinder of choice. Stumptown has gotten one for their Annex
paired with a Ditting grinder (didn't note which model). 
(Intermission while I go fill Debi's order for a cap';-) FWIW her Kona Kap'
PF build weighed in at 18gr, and my pour art is still poor! But this now at
room temperature end of cup Lekempti Americano sure is now was tasty:-)
Where was I, ah yes Clover impressions. After discussing the operations of
the Clover was asked if I'd like to try a cup. Now had to chooose which of a
half dozen or so SO's plus a couple of blends to try. (I had no worry's
about quality of greens or roast knowing Stumptown is quality focused from
dirt to cup often partnering with Tom on special lot buys and Probat roasts
daily) Decided on Guat' El Injerto. She weighed out 21gr, yes they weigh the
beans and grind for each cup. (They've settled on 21gr, 8oz, 204f, 40sec
infusion as their Clover "standard" setting.) Prior to the brewing I first
deeply inhaled the fragrance from the large glass bean cannister of Guat'
and munched a couple of the beautifully Probat City+ roasted beans. So far
promised to be excellent. Now the cup. Aroma smelled great. First sip and no
wow, more like what's this watery brown liquid with hints of Guatemalen! I
continued taking sips, concentrating of tasting the flavor nuances and yes I
could find wonderful Guatemalen character and flavor. But the cup seemed
almost totally lacking body, much less than press and maybe even less than
vac'. And the flavors seemed thin. But 21gr for an 8oz cup of coffee seeming
weak? Does not compute! But then I reminded myself Guats are not known for
body anyway and tried to enjoy the cup. Yes tasted good, but just didn't cut
it, for me. Just seemed to be missing something. Ended up not finishing the
cup. So made today's first cup of the morning a Guat' Antigua Peaberry
Especial Americano I happened to have roasted to be rest ready for the
weekend, that's more like it!
Which segues to is my palate broken? A week or two ago there was a Kona
discussion on CG. Coffeekid (Mark Prince) prefers vac' or Clover type
brewing for a delicate coffee like Kona while I prefer Americano. He
contends espresso extraction tends to obliterate delicate flavors while
amplifying subtle flavors. Delicate and subtle tastes being different things
to Mark. While I currently seem to believe without espresso extraction cups
are missing emulsifed oils yielding an incomplete tasting cup. Have years
use of Silvia use and now the Bricoletta impaired my palate or simply
differing taste preferences? Is my palate just undeveloped not making a
distinction between delicate and subtle tastes? Been years, guess I just
need to do a head to head Americano/vac comparison again but haven't gotten
around to it. 
The never ending Journey continues...
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.

2) From: Les
Thanks Mike.
Les
On 10/14/06, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>

3) From: miKe mcKoffee
You're welcome (and correction). The Lem' was at 64 not 40 hour rest this
morning!
 
miKe
<Snip>
 > days vac'd mason jar rest) and my second cup Lekempti (now 
<Snip>

4) From: Les
I didn't roast any of mine yet as we are headed to Moscow, Idaho to
see my daughter and son-in-law.  I roasted a few tamer coffees for
them.  The new Columbia, and a Nicaraguan CoE from last year.
Les
On 10/14/06, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>

5) From: scott miller
Gosh, 21 grams for an 8 ounce cup seems excessive to me, regardless of the
bean used.
I have not tasted any cups from a Clover, so I'm wondering if that's a
standard quantity... does the Clover generally require that large a dose to
produce good results.
The video I've seen of how the machine works is interesting. I hope to have
the chance to see one in person and taste the results.
Just curious, what did a cup of the El Injerto cost?
cheers,
ScoTTT
On 10/14/06, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>

6) From: miKe mcKoffee
<Snip>
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of scott miller
	Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 12:41 PM
	
<Snip>
of the bean used.
	I have not tasted any cups from a Clover, so I'm wondering if that's
a standard quantity... does the Clover generally require that large a =
dose
to produce good results. 
	The video I've seen of how the machine works is interesting. I hope
to have the chance to see one in person and taste the results.
	
<Snip>
	
	cheers,
	
<Snip>
	
Agreed 21gr for 8oz cup high ratio, hence my "does not compute"! (Though
just a few minutes ago used 18gr for 1.25oz cup, but hey that was a
ristetto:-) Can't answer whether such grind amounts and short infusion =
time
are mfg suggested, normal usage or simply what they've decided. If I had =
the
Clover to play with would definitely try different infusion times out to
maybe 2 minute as well as different grinds as well as different volumes.
(Failed to mention they ONLY clean the Clover daily with PuroCaf (same =
as
CleanCaf, different brand). Café espresso machines they detergent back =
flush
multiple times a day.
El Injerto cost? Free, she didn't ask for payment and there was a tip =
jar.
Guess 'cuz it's their Educational Annex and I'd been in there awhile =
busily
chatting with her and customers while I was also businly taking display
grinders and other stuff apart (and putting back together:-) though by =
the
cup and whole bean prices are on the jars. (Yes, Esmerelda Gesha =
available
both whole bean $52 1/2# or by the cup $5.00. Really not out of line at =
all
IMO considering what the greens cost them!) FWIW they do educational =
public
cuppings twice daily and had done Gesha that morning, don't know if they
charge during the cuppings or what and didn't think to ask. But it's =
pretty
cool besides espresso to have a commericial establishment you can walk =
up
and pick from 10 or so different fresh roasted whole selections and have =
it
fresh brewed by the cup. (They do the same thing in all their cafes but =
with
press pots not Clovers.) The Annex doesn't have espresso machine though,
it's adjoining one of their cafes so out one door and in the other!
IMO Stumptown is equivalent quality to coffee cafes as Tom is supplying
greens to home roasters. In reality if they'd been where they are now =
and
had I known about them when I started home roasting 'bout 6 years ago =
good
chance I would not have since I likely wouldn't have had the need. But
there's no going back...
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I =
must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal =
enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone =
before.

7) From: scott miller
Man, I just have to make a trip out to the Rose City (isn't that the
nickname?)
The southeast US is pretty much a coffee wasteland... well, there are
exceptions of course, but we sure don't have the clustering of good shops
like other areas do...
On 10/14/06, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
e
<Snip>
.
<Snip>
e
<Snip>
e
<Snip>
d
<Snip>
t
<Snip>

8) From: Got Aloha??
--Apple-Mail-1-54592927
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset-ASCII;
	delsp=yes;
	format=flowed
I agree, there is definitely something missing in the clover cup.  A  
couple of months ago when I visited the annex to try out the clover,  
I had a cup of a COE Bolivia and a Rwanda, both it seemed were  
lacking body.  I was not disappointed and the on the fly brew options  
are really cool, but you get a lot more out of an americano or AP  
brew.  It is a really cool place but they were extremely busy when I  
went there and weren't in a chatty mood.
Justn
houstini
If There is anything worth doing, it's worth doing right.
--Apple-Mail-1-54592927
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charsetO-8859-1
I agree, there is definitely =
something missing in the clover cup.  A couple of months ago when I =
visited the annex to try out the clover, I had a cup of a COE Bolivia =
and a Rwanda, both it seemed were lacking body.  I was not =
disappointed and the on the fly brew options are really cool, but you =
get a lot more out of an americano or AP brew.  It is a really cool =
place but they were extremely busy when I went there and weren't in a =
chatty mood.  
 


JustnhoustiniIf There is anything = worth doing, it's worth doing right.

= --Apple-Mail-1-54592927--


HomeRoast Digest