HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Hot Milk with bubbles on top (32 msgs / 1206 lines)
1) From: Brett Mason
I keep getting hot milk with bubbles on top.  I've been trying to get
that thick pourable foam.
Just to be clear - I agree that it's probably me.  I keep reading the
stuff online.  I talked with Chris from Chris Coffee.  He was the most
helpful.  He says it's not the tip.  Don't blame the bow and arrow,
but the indian behind the bow.  Freakin made my day.
I get better espresso than any shop in town.  But they have pourable
microfoam.  I pour hot milk and about three bubbles on top.
My machine has tons of steam.  I can bubble the milk right out of the
top of the pitcher.  I've been trying with water in a glass mug to try
and see the action.  Don't see much action.  I've been trying nonfat,
1%, 2% and Whole milk.
Does anybody have any ideas?
If you like Chris want to take a broad swipe, feel free.  I like to
hear that I don't know how to do this part...  It must feel good to
take such a swipe, but that didn't help my espresso either...
Thoughts?
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

2) From: Barry Luterman
Are you using a frothing thermometer? Lower the fat content of the milk. 
Lowest fat content the better the foam. From what you say I don't think the 
holes on your tip are occluded but check that anyway. Get the milk to flow 
in a circle. Don't open steam valve all the way.

3) From: Michael Dhabolt
My roadblock to making pourable microfoam with commercial level steam
(Astoria) was stretching the milk too much.  When I started stretching
the milk a bit less and submerging the wand tip a bit deeper, a bit
earlier with good whirlpool action - - Voila.
Mike (just plain)

4) From: Brett Mason
It's an automatic with electric on/off for steam - see this:http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/commercial/unicdivaI will work on the circle....
On 10/22/06, Barry Luterman  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

5) From: Brett Mason
also helpful - OK will try that too...
AND - thanks!
Brett - one poor sorry indian....
On 10/22/06, Michael Dhabolt  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

6) From: Tom Ulmer
Electric on/off must mean you're getting all that's available all at once?
Try using a one cup Pyrex. Get some cold heavy cream and pour about 2
ounces. Place the tip towards the bottom and hit the switch. TILT the
measuring cup and move the tip to the top of the cup that has the level.
Move the tip up or down until you get a smooth swishing sound and the cream
swirls nicely. Work the tip towards the top until it starts to pop and you
can't get it back to a smooth swirl or until you finish. Shut off
immediately.
The heavy cream is much easier to work with when trying to get that
luxurious tiny-bubbled foam. 
It's important to realize that the whole endeavor may end much faster than
you expect (when you can't control the popping - this is commonly referred
to "foamus interuptus"). If you keep going at this point you will destroy
all the little bubbles and end with hot-watery cream and big sloppy bubbles.

7) From: Brett Mason
OK will do this too then!  Thanks!
Brett
On 10/22/06, Tom Ulmer  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

8) From: Michael Dhabolt
Tom's idea (using thick cream as a technique learning tool) sounds
great.  I went thru a spell where I was buying whole milk, and finding
it much easier to get the microfoam I was after.  I later switched
back to the normal fare (2%) and didn't find it a difficult
transition.  There is also a short video clip in a coffeegeek thread
that miKe linked to in a recent thread (can't find it right now) that
shows the barista sticking his finger in the microfoam, at the end of
the frothing, to show the correct consistency.  When I first viewed
it, that clip re-inforced the realization that the microfoam that I
was making was too stiff (meringue-like) to be used in pouring Latte'
art etc.  EPNW sells a two hole (small holes) tip that fits most wands
that is commonly used with commercial machines to facilitate lowering
the amount of steam and making microfoam production a little easier
with machines with excess steam volume.
Mike (just plain)

9) From: raymanowen
Brett, I think I have the knack for microfoaming liquids with a steam wand-
Make sure there's some sort of steam tip on the wand. It will have a little
smaller orifice than the ID of the steam wand tube itself.
If there is one of the sliding sleeve dildos on the wand, just unscrew the
tip and set it aside. Slide off all the toy garbage and lose it. Re-install
just the tip by itself.
Now you have a steam wand. It will blow a small diameter stream of steam.
Practice on a partial cup of coffee.
Submerge the tip totally under the surface of the coffee and turn on the
steam full tilt. Deep in the coffee, or other liquid, like bovine lactate,
the steam vapor will exit the tip and be condensed by, and heat the liquid.
Practically no bubbles will make it to the surface before the steam totally
condenses in the cool liquid. All of the heat of fusion of the steam will be
absorbed by the liquid, and you won't get many bubbles to show for it. All
heat and no foam.
But you knew that.
Withdraw the wand (lower the cup) until the very tip is just beneath the
liquid surface. With the steam running, it will get very noisy- a hollow
crackling sound. You're making coffee foam, a false crema, and heating the
coffee.
How so? When you inject the steam normal or perpendicular to the surface, it
creates a powerful small scale vortex that sucks in surrounding air. The
heat of fusion of the steam is still being absorbed by, and heating the
liquid.
The steam volume is still collapsing from a gas vapor to the same molecules
in liquid state- no bubbles of steam.  It's the Vortex, sucking  air into
the mix.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
First, you need a grinder. Then get a better grinder.

10) From: Sandy Andina
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If it's any consolation, I went into an espresso bar up in Highland  
Park, IL called "The Perfect Cup" (dunno if it's related to the  
Ravenswood shop of the same name that uses a superauto). Ordered a  
breve capp, and the barista/owner told me that she couldn't get half- 
and-half to froth, because the machine was too powerful. (I don't  
think she understands the concept of microfoam and I was not about to  
edify her). She said that she couldn't even get 2% to work--and 1%  
wasn't as good as skim. I had to settle for somewhere between a breve  
latte and a breve au lait.
The machine? A UNIC.
On Oct 22, 2006, at 2:04 PM, Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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If it's any consolation, I went =
into an espresso bar up in Highland Park, IL called "The Perfect Cup" =
(dunno if it's related to the Ravenswood shop of the same name that uses =
a superauto). Ordered a breve capp, and the barista/owner told me that =
she couldn't get half-and-half to froth, because the machine was too =
powerful. (I don't think she understands the concept of microfoam and I =
was not about to edify her). She said that she couldn't even get 2% to =
work--and 1% wasn't as good as skim. I had to settle for somewhere =
between a breve latte and a breve au lait.  
The machine? A = UNIC. On Oct 22, 2006, at 2:04 PM, Brett Mason = wrote:
I keep getting hot milk with = bubbles on top.  I've = been trying to getthat thick pourable = foam. Just to be clear - I agree that it's probably = me.  I keep reading = thestuff online.  I talked with Chris from = Chris Coffee.  He was the = mosthelpful.  He says it's not the = tip.  Don't blame the bow = and arrow,but the indian behind the = bow.  Freakin made my = day. I get better espresso than any shop in town.  But they have = pourablemicrofoam.  I pour hot milk and about = three bubbles on top.My machine has tons of = steam.  I can bubble the = milk right out of thetop of the pitcher.  I've been trying with water = in a glass mug to tryand see the action.  Don't see much action.  I've been trying = nonfat,1%, 2% and Whole milk. Does = anybody have any ideas? If you like Chris want to take a = broad swipe, feel free.  = I like tohear that I don't know how to do = this part...  It must = feel good totake such a swipe, but that = didn't help my espresso either... Thoughts?Brett http://homeroast.freeservers.com=homeroast mailing listhttp://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change your personal list settings (digest = options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings = = = --Apple-Mail-90-728466897--

11) From: Derek Bradford
Where did you find this information?  I've always used whole milk,
sometimes 2%.  I get the best microfoam with the higher fat milks;
better still if I add a little cream once and a while.  I can
certainly get microfoam with low fat, but it's not nearly as good for
me.  Can you shed a little light on this?
--Derek
On 10/23/06, Barry Luterman  wrote:
<Snip>
-- http://www.novernae.comHome of the Wandering Sloth

12) From: Brett Mason
OK - I am crushed to the hilt!  But that sounds familiar....  The
steam wand has a 5-hole tip that I am thinking of replacing - I just
have to find the correct threads and then find a replacement.....
Thx for the info - sing me a ballad next concert, OK?
Brett
On 10/22/06, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

13) From: Les
I use fresh goat milk from Alchemist John.  It is much sweeter than cow's
milk.  It froths and makes the best micro foam.  Don't buy goat's milk in
the store you will be disappointed.   I get excellent microfoam with half
and half too.  Fresh whole milk is the easiest to froth IMO.   That said, I
use a 4 hole tip and go for the middle of the pitcher.  You have to learn
your machine.  It took a number of tries to go from the Expobar to the
Cremina.  I can now microfoam with both machines.  I think people move their
tip around too much.  This is the most common error I have seen.  Get the
milk moving, with the tip at the top sucking a bit of air, and when the base
of the pitcher is warm, plunge the tip to stretch.  On the Expobar the
stretch is about 15-20 seconds, and on the Cremina 30-40 seconds.
Les
On 10/22/06, Derek Bradford  wrote:
<Snip>

14) From: Derek Bradford
Brett,
If you're looking to get more pressure from a multi-hole tip, try
plugging one or more of the holes with a toothpick from the inside.
My Europiccola has one of its three holes plugged (as is the case with
most Europiccola owners), and it makes good microfoam.  (I say 'good'
because my Elektra, with double the boiler size, made great microfoam.
 The Europiccola has been demoted to 'good'.)
On 10/23/06, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>
-- http://www.novernae.comHome of the Wandering Sloth

15) From: Brett Mason
Tried that - seemed to do ok, not perfect, but better....  Will work
on it some more...
Brett
On 10/22/06, Derek Bradford  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

16) From: Ed Needham
Three things I might add to this conversation...
One, IF you heat the milk too much, it will boil and all hope for bubbles, 
microfoam or anything other than a very flat, nasty tasting milk will be 
lost.  As the milk heats, the sound deepens due to the way sound waves pass 
through the changing thickness and temperature of the liquid.  Imagine the 
sound of a jet taking off.  If your steaming process sounds like you are 
more than half way down the runway, you've probably gone too far.
Two,  To get microfoam, you simultaneously raise the tip to near the surface 
so that the steam sucks in air as it enters the milk...at the same time, you 
are trying to get the milk to swirl in a circle within the steaming pitcher.
Three, Keep the milk swirling in the frothing pitcher after you've steamed 
it, and pour quickly before the foam has a chance to layer out.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

17) From: miKe mcKoffee
Lower fat content is 'easier' to get foam true, but harder to get silky
micro-foam. FWIW competition cappuccinos are virtually all made using whole
milk.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
<Snip>

18) From: Angelo
I see that we all have different techniques regarding microfoam. I 
was having a bit of trouble until I saw on some site the 
recommendation to open the steam valve all the way. This seemed to 
cure my problem. I also start with the tip just under the surface and 
pull up the foam as quickly as possible - before it heats up. Then I 
tilt the pitcher and swirl the milk until it's very smooth, and 
finally I plunge it deep to get the temp up...
Btw, I find very cold whole milk to work best, but can actually get 
any milk, including soy and rice, to go micro...It's all in the wrist :-)
A+
Silvia  and Creminaa

19) From: b cook
If there was one thing that improved my frothing it was moving from a larger
frothing pitcher down to a 12oz. frothing pitcher.
bc

20) From: Brett Mason
really - what changed?
Brett
On 10/23/06, b cook  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

21) From: raymanowen
"The machine? A UNIC" -??? Where's that made? -ro
On 10/22/06, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976

22) From: Brett Mason
Made in France.
Runs well.http://www.unic-sa.com/en/index.htm   but the Diva is an older machine no longer found on their site...
Regards,
Brett
On 10/23/06, raymanowen  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

23) From: Cameron Forde
I imagine that Unic might not be as popular in the english-speaking
world due to the association with eunuch.  Reminds me of how the Pinto
didn't sell well in Europe...
Cameron
On 10/24/06, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>

24) From: Ed Needham
...and the Nova didn't do so well in Latin America either, since va is a 
form of 'go'.  No-go.

25) From: Brett Mason
I know - my Pinto made it to 196K miles...  Learned a ton about fixing cars
from that little red wagon...
The Mazda goes hmmmmmmm, but the Pito goes Boooooooooooooom
Brett
On 10/24/06, Cameron Forde  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

26) From: Brian Kamnetz
The Nova story, while widely believed to be on the level, is urban legend,
according to Snopes.com:
*Claim:*   The Chevrolet Nova sold poorly in Spanish-speaking countries
because its name translates as "doesn't go" in Spanish.
*Status:*   *False.*http://www.snopes.com/business/misxlate/nova.aspBrian
On 10/25/06, Ed Needham  wrote:
<Snip>

27) From: Sandy Andina
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However, back in the days of live TV when the commercials on variety  
shows were done live by the star of the show, comedian Danny Kaye's  
show was sponsored by Chevrolet. (You young'uns used to a gazillion  
different 20-second spots per hour may not know that back in the day  
sometimes one company would sponsor not just an entire show but the  
whole series).  He had to do a commercial for a model of the ill- 
fated Chevy "Unsafe-at-Any-Speed" Corvair called the Monza. Now,  
Kaye's real name was Kaminisky, and like most Jews of my parents'  
generation he grew up speaking fluent Yiddish.  Every time he had to  
say "Corvair Monza," he'd start to giggle, then snicker, and finally,  
he just about lost it. My parents were rolling on the floor. Being a  
second-generation American 10-year-old whose only exposure to Yiddish  
was as the language my parents would use when they didn't want the  
kids to understand, I was utterly nonplussed and asked what was so  
funny.
They replied that "Corvair" sounds like "curveh," which is Yiddish  
for "female dog" or sometimes slang for "prostitute." "Monza" sounds  
like "mamzer," which denotes a child born out of wedlock or otherwise  
illegitimately. Thus, poor Danny Kaye found himself having to utter  
repeatedly what to Yiddish-speakers sounded like "sonofabitch bastard."
Snopes THAT, pal!  I was there!
On Oct 25, 2006, at 9:33 AM, Brian Kamnetz wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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However, back in the days of =
live TV when the commercials on variety shows were done live by the star =
of the show, comedian Danny Kaye's show was sponsored by Chevrolet. (You =
young'uns used to a gazillion different 20-second spots per hour may not =
know that back in the day sometimes one company would sponsor not just =
an entire show but the whole series).  He had to do a commercial for a =
model of the ill-fated Chevy "Unsafe-at-Any-Speed" Corvair called the =
Monza. Now, Kaye's real name was Kaminisky, and like most Jews of my =
parents' generation he grew up speaking fluent Yiddish.  Every time he =
had to say "Corvair Monza," he'd start to giggle, then snicker, and =
finally, he just about lost it. My parents were rolling on the floor. =
Being a second-generation American 10-year-old whose only exposure to =
Yiddish was as the language my parents would use when they didn't want =
the kids to understand, I was utterly nonplussed and asked what was so =
funny.
They replied = that "Corvair" sounds like "curveh," which is Yiddish for "female dog" = or sometimes slang for "prostitute." "Monza" sounds like "mamzer," which = denotes a child born out of wedlock or otherwise illegitimately. Thus, = poor Danny Kaye found himself having to utter repeatedly what to = Yiddish-speakers sounded like "sonofabitch bastard."
Snopes THAT, pal!  I was = there! On Oct 25, 2006, at 9:33 AM, Brian Kamnetz = wrote:
The Nova story, while widely believed to be on the = level, is urban legend, according to Snopes.com:   = Claim:   The = Chevrolet Nova sold poorly in Spanish-speaking countries because its = name translates as "doesn't go" in Spanish. Status:   False.    = http://www.snope=s.com/business/misxlate/nova.asp   = Brian   On = 10/25/06, Ed Needham <ed> = wrote: ...and the = Nova didn't do so well in Latin America either, since va is a form of = 'go'.  No-go.

28) From: Barry Luterman
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Another Yiddish story is that when a new shampoo was about to be =
marketed. All the labels and bottles were already printed. When someone =
caught the almost fatal error in the name. The name of the shampoo was =
quickly changed from Drecks Shampoo to Brecks Shampoo. In Yiddish Dreck =
means S**t.

29) From: Justin Marquez
On 10/25/06, Sandy Andina  wrote
<Snip>
I owned one of those as my first car while in my last year of college.
 It was about 9 or 10 years old and the Yiddish equivalent name just
about sums it up. I'm pretty sure I called it that in English a few
times.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)

30) From: Sandy Andina
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It really was "Dreck's" originally? ROTFLMAO!!! When we were kids,  
that's what we used to call Breck's.
On Oct 25, 2006, at 12:14 PM, Barry Luterman wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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It really was "Dreck's" =
originally? ROTFLMAO!!! When we were kids, that's what we used to call =
Breck's.
On Oct 25, 2006, at 12:14 PM, Barry Luterman =
wrote:
Another Yiddish story is = that when a new shampoo was about to be marketed. All the labels and = bottles were already printed. When someone caught the almost fatal error = in the name. The name of the shampoo was quickly changed from Drecks = Shampoo to Brecks Shampoo. In Yiddish Dreck means = S**t.----- Original = Message -----From: Sandy = AndinaTo: homeroastSent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 6:06 AMSubject: Re: +Hot Milk with bubbles on = top However, back in the days of live TV when = the commercials on variety shows were done live by the star of the show, = comedian Danny Kaye's show was sponsored by Chevrolet. (You young'uns = used to a gazillion different 20-second spots per hour may not know that = back in the day sometimes one company would sponsor not just an entire = show but the whole series).  He had to do a commercial for a model of = the ill-fated Chevy "Unsafe-at-Any-Speed" Corvair called the Monza. Now, = Kaye's real name was Kaminisky, and like most Jews of my parents' = generation he grew up speaking fluent Yiddish.  Every time he had to = say "Corvair Monza," he'd start to giggle, then snicker, and finally, he = just about lost it. My parents were rolling on the floor. Being a = second-generation American 10-year-old whose only exposure to Yiddish = was as the language my parents would use when they didn't want the kids = to understand, I was utterly nonplussed and asked what was so = funny.
They replied = that "Corvair" sounds like "curveh," which is Yiddish for "female dog" = or sometimes slang for "prostitute." "Monza" sounds like "mamzer," which = denotes a child born out of wedlock or otherwise illegitimately. Thus, = poor Danny Kaye found himself having to utter repeatedly what to = Yiddish-speakers sounded like "sonofabitch bastard."
Snopes THAT, pal!  I was = there! On Oct 25, 2006, at 9:33 AM, Brian Kamnetz = wrote:
The Nova = story, while widely believed to be on the level, is urban legend, = according to :Claim:   The = Chevrolet Nova sold poorly in Spanish-speaking countries because its = name translates as "doesn't go" in Spanish.

 
 Brian

 On = 10/25/06, Ed Needham <
ed> wrote:form of = 'go'.  No-go.


31) From: Lynne
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I needed a good laugh! Thank you, thank you, thank you! Oh, I wish I 
had been there (only my parents wouldn't have known Yiddish).
That is SO funny!
By the way, I absolutely loved Danny Kaye. It was about ten, maybe 
fifteen years ago, I hadn't seen any of his movies for a long time. 
Went into a video shop (that was before DVD's & all) and asked if they =
had any Danny Kaye movies.
The kid yelled to another employee, something like Do we have any 'Dan =
Nicky movies' or something like that.
It was at that moment I started to feel my age...
Lynne
On Oct 25, 2006, at 12:06 PM, Sandy Andina wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
ill-fated 
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
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I needed a good laugh! Thank you, thank you, thank you! Oh, I wish I
had been there (only my parents wouldn't have known Yiddish).
That is SO funny!
By the way, I absolutely loved Danny Kaye. It was about ten, maybe
fifteen years ago, I hadn't seen any of his movies for a long time.
Went into a video shop (that was before DVD's & all) and asked if they
had any Danny Kaye movies.
The kid yelled to another employee, something like Do we have any 'Dan
Nicky movies' or something like that.
It was at that moment I started to feel my age...
Lynne
On Oct 25, 2006, at 12:06 PM, Sandy Andina wrote:
However, back in the days of live TV when the commercials on
variety shows were done live by the star of the show, comedian Danny
Kaye's show was sponsored by Chevrolet. (You young'uns used to a
gazillion different 20-second spots per hour may not know that back in
the day sometimes one company would sponsor not just an entire show
but the whole series).  He had to do a commercial for a model of the
ill-fated Chevy "Unsafe-at-Any-Speed" Corvair called the Monza. Now,
Kaye's real name was Kaminisky, and like most Jews of my parents'
generation he grew up speaking fluent Yiddish.  Every time he had to
say "Corvair Monza," he'd start to giggle, then snicker, and finally,
he just about lost it. My parents were rolling on the floor. Being a
second-generation American 10-year-old whose only exposure to Yiddish
was as the language my parents would use when they didn't want the
kids to understand, I was utterly nonplussed and asked what was so
funny.
They replied that "Corvair" sounds like "curveh," which is Yiddish for
"female dog" or sometimes slang for "prostitute." "Monza" sounds like
"mamzer," which denotes a child born out of wedlock or otherwise
illegitimately. Thus, poor Danny Kaye found himself having to utter
repeatedly what to Yiddish-speakers sounded like "sonofabitch bastard."
Snopes THAT, pal!  I was there!
On Oct 25, 2006, at 9:33 AM, Brian Kamnetz wrote:
The Nova story, while widely believed to be on the level, is
urban legend, according to
0000,0000,EEEESnopes.com:
 
0000,8888,0000Claim: The
Chevrolet Nova sold poorly in Spanish-speaking countries because its
name translates as "doesn't go" in Spanish.
=
Arial0000,8888,0000=
Status:
=
ArialFFFF,0000,0000=
False. 
 
 
=
0000,0000,EEEhttp://www.snopes.com/business/misxlat=e/nova.asp
 
Brian
 
On 10/25/06, Ed Needham
<<0000,0000,EEEEed>
wrote: ...and the Nova didn't do so well in Latin America either,
since va is a
form of 'go'. No-go.

32) From: Lynne
Funny, I have the same car, just a different make & model...
L.
On Oct 25, 2006, at 1:17 PM, Justin Marquez wrote:
<Snip>


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