HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Smoky Flavor (25 msgs / 731 lines)
1) From: DeCambre.Peter
I will be out of the office starting  11/26/2002 and will not return
until 12/02/2002.
I will respond to your message when I return.
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

2) From: DeCambre.Peter
I will be out of the office starting  11/26/2002 and will not return
until 12/02/2002.
I will respond to your message when I return.
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

3) From: Gerald and Beth Newsom
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Les and Ron, someone posted recently that roasting in the RK drum =
imparted a slight smoky flavor to the coffee, possibly because of =
burning chaff.  Have you noticed anything like that in your roasts?  I'm =
interested in getting the RK drum soon, but don't think I'd want all my =
coffee to have a smoky flavor.
Thanks,
Gerald

4) From: Bob
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Just checked my log and have 76 roasts on my RK, using a 45K BTU BBQ. =
Vast majority of roasts one lb. Can emphatically state no abnormal smoky =
taste in my coffee.
The drum is incredibly well made and never a hiccup from the motor. =
Couldn't be more pleased with my rig.
Have pictures can e-mail if interested how I rigged the =
diffuser-followed RK's advice and believe this really helps profiling.
VegasBob

5) From: Vince Doss
I concur with Bob's findings. With respect to the posters opinion about the
smoky thing.....I have had my RK, using a 45K BTU BBQ as well, since
April-May and have run through 50lbs or so roasting mostly in the FC range
usually stopping at the start of 2nd  sometimes well into 2nd, roast size
averages 2lbs and have not noticed any commonality I would describe as smoky
nor have any of my "customers" commented about this. Now when I purposely
take a roast way into 2nd intentionally, it is definately smoky but I think
that is normal for such dark roasts, and I am sure the smoke would
contribute to that. I should note that I do not usually "see" any smoke
until 2nd gets really going and I have come around to Tom's recommendations
and have been roasting lighter lately.
additionally, I agree with Ron Kyle about the Gene Cafe. I love my RK but I
think I would have bought this roaster had I not gone the way of the RK.
Vince
On 10/27/06, Bob  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
At some point between French and fire, it really doesn't matter much what
the "origin character" of the coffee was...
Tom Owens - Sweet Marias

6) From: Gerald and Beth Newsom
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Thanks, Vince and Bob!
Gerald

7) From: Ed Needham
If the original poster brews and 'drinks' his roasted beans before changing 
clothes, he may 'smell' a smoky smell that could impart the perception of a 
smoky flavor.  I usually don't notice how much I reek of coffee smoke until 
I shower and then it smells like I'm brewing coffee (grin).
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

8) From: Ed Needham
Calling Mike McKona...Speaking of smoky flavor, have you ever used green 
coffee for pellets in your Traeger BBQ pit?  Coffee smoked brisket sounds 
yummy.
I know some have used finely ground coffee as part of a rub, but the smoke 
from coffee beans might do something unique to Q.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

9) From: Douglas Strait
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Ed Needham wrote:
<Snip>
changing clothes, he may 'smell' a smoky smell that could impart the =
perception of a smoky flavor.  I usually don't notice how much I reek of =
coffee smoke until I shower and then it smells like I'm brewing coffee =
(grin).<
I am the "original poster". This Smokey flavor discussion evolved from a =
remark I made in a thread where I was speculating about possible reasons =
an air roast and drum roast might cup differently despite similar =
profiles. 
In that thread I wrote: 
<Snip>
me a portion of that batch. This coffee had a [pleasant to my taste] =
smokey note that I attribute to the burning chaff in the BBQ. I have not =
experienced a similar flavor note in a popper air roast.<
I am pretty sure I let Ron's roast rest at least a couple of days before =
brewing so it is a good bet I had changed clothes by then. Who knows, I =
might have even showered. At any rate, I wasn't that close to the action =
during the roast. Unfortunately my observation r.e. the smokey note =
lacks any A vs B comparison with an equivalent air roast since Ron was =
roasting a bean that I didn't have in my stash. 
In another post on this smokey note subject Vince Doss wrote: 
<Snip>
definately smoky but I think that is normal for such dark roasts, and I =
am sure the smoke would contribute to that.<
This is a good point and I should note that Ron's roast was well into =
Vienna which is darker than I normally roast. This well could have =
contributed to my perception of a smokey note. 
Doug

10) From: Mike Chester

11) From: Gerald and Beth Newsom
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Thanks for the extra information, Doug!  A Vienna roast would probably =
account for the smoky 'note'.
Gerald

12) From: Ed Needham
My post was really supposed to be tongue in cheek, with a hint of 
reality...BUT...taking any bean much into second crack will lead to more 
roasty/smoky flavors.  Maybe we've found the 'smoking bean'.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

13) From: Les
I have not detected a smoke flavor from the chaff.  Even when I am using my
"bright" profile, which is hotter than normal, I don't get any smoke
flavor.  What I do get is a great cup of coffee!
Les
On 10/27/06, Ed Needham  wrote:
<Snip>

14) From: Don Harris
I am a happy Gene Cafe owner who is considering the RK Drum. I have
wondered about the smoke, I have my answer - Thanks
Now for a question, I would use the RK Drum when we head to the
cottage - electrical issues - How small of a roast can I do with the
drum? 1/2 pound?
On 10/27/06, Les  wrote:
<Snip>

15) From: Les
I have excellent control with 1/2 pound to 2 pounds.  Good control down to
1/4 pound.  For fun, I did a one bean roast and it crunched at a very nice
city roast.  Cost per cup of coffee at one bean at a time would be pretty
expensive however.
Les
On 10/27/06, Don Harris  wrote:
<Snip>

16) From: Jeff Oien
Don Harris wrote:
<Snip>
I regularly do 1/4 lb. roasts but that's pretty unusual.
As for smoky - I have tasted smoky in the old Komodo decaf
and last year's Guat Coban but never from the roaster itself.
JeffO

17) From: RK
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Gerald I do not notice any smoke taste in using my RK Drum, except when =
I go to a dark roast FC + and a darker some as you call in smoke taste =
which is actually a roast taste as the sugars go into dark caramelizing, =
I parallel this to tasting light brown sugar, then dark brown sugar and =
then molasses
This is a natural flavor imparted by the degree of roast not the smoke =
produced in the roasting process.
As I see it.
RK

18) From: Peter Zulkowski
Have the folks that have converted to SC/TO noticed any difference in 
smokiness from other methods?
The Turbo Oven recirculates the air, with the smoke, and also burns some 
of the chaff.
Also, about how many roasts can you do with an RK Drum before changing 
the propane tank?
Thanks,
PeterZ
David Echelbarger wrote:
<Snip>

19) From: Les
Peter,
That depends on the size of the tank.  A standard 6 gallon tank lasts me
about 3 months with my 45000 BTU unit.  I have a 1 gallon back-up just in
case I miss judge.  It also depends on how dark you roast too.
Les
On 10/27/06, Peter Zulkowski  wrote:
<Snip>

20) From: Timothy Wat
On 10/27/06, Peter Zulkowski  wrote:
<Snip>
Certainly, the larger batch size from popper to SC/TO means more smoke.  But
with the Woz chaff ejection system, it seems the smoke isn't recirculated as
much as it is forcefully blown out through the "ejection" gap.  Also, actual
burnt chaff is a pretty rare occurance with my rig, although other SC/TO
users may have a different experience.
All to say, no, I don't notice any more smokiness in the resultant beans or
cup at all.
Tim
-- 
Timothy Wat
timothywat

21) From: RK
<Snip>
Peter I used to keep track of that and my notes say the range for me at 36K 
output are 36 to 42 roasting sessions.Where I buy my propane works out to 
about
$0.35 per session. Buying propane at the exchanges at convience stores will 
increase the cost. to about $0.45 per session.
RK

22) From: Peter Zulkowski
Thanks Ron, and to all who applied :)
Of course I never have to change my electricity with my PGR, but the 
ends do burn off the wires every few hundred roasts, and that can be 
more of a PITA than having to run down town to refill a propane tank ;)
Not that I am really about to give up on electrical roasting, but I am 
learning that it  is not too unreasonable to roast with gas.....
as opposed to electricity....
which is usually always there.
I say this while roasting near, but not too near, the spare double size  
portable propane tanks we have for the Fifth Wheel.
Soooo.. gas is not a shortage around here .
I have a burner from a turkey frier, and may have to tinker with that to 
provide heat to a more compact version of a RK Drum setup.
BBQ grills take up so much space.. compared to my PGR anyway.
Definitely not as portable as the PGR is.
I do have to roast coffee while 'camping' more than 4 months a year.
PeterZ
Life is just full of dreams and challenges, here in LHC.
RK wrote:
<Snip>

23) From: Peter Zulkowski
Sorry, meant to say 'replied' not 'applied'.
still early here ;)
PeterZ
RK wrote:
<Snip>

24) From: Peter Zulkowski
Here is some more on Smokey Flavor etc.
I am not sure I can taste the differences, but I bet some of you can.
Clearly he is biased toward his fluid bed patents.
Cheers,
PeterZ
*here are some excerpts from the book, COFFEE QUALITY by Michael Sivetz, 
the inventor of the hot-air roasting process.*
*"The roasting of green coffee beans develops the coffee aromas and 
flavors. Roasting is the process of heating the coffee beans uniformly, 
first to remove the moisture (about 12%) then to cause pyrolysis of the 
sugar in the bean cells, which means that the sugars break down to 
caramel, water, carbon dioxide, and many aldehydes and ketones which 
characterize the aroma and taste of fresh coffee.*
*The roast weight loss is related to bean color and beverage taste, and 
is often related to the mode of brew preparation and cultural taste. 
Different coffee beans react differently to the various end temperatures 
cited. And various green beans have preferred levels of roast for best 
flavor developments. In the USA, too many firms roast their beans too 
lightly, because that gives less weight loss (greater yield and profit). 
Often roast level is determined by the coffee buyer-taster who is used 
to evaluating green coffee beans at light roasts. The end result of such 
light roasts can be a very acid, astringent, harsh-tasting beverage 
which does not have optimum flavor development. It is a wasted coffee 
sold to the public.*
*Few people realize that the manner of roasting has a great deal of 
influence on the taste of the final roasted beans. For example, rotary 
steel cylinder roasters, which are traditional in the trade; e.g., 
Probat in Europe, due to their high operating temperatures (over 800o F) 
cause scorching of the beans, oil release that can coat all the beans, 
and smoke from burning chaff that fumigates the beans, giving them a 
harsh, biting, and (in dark roast) a burnt taste which is "dirty." The 
use of Melitta filter paper, for example, helps remove some of this 
bitey taste. It is far better not to scorch or burn the beans or lay a 
tar coat on the bean. In order to avoid this scorching and non-uniform 
roasting of coffee beans, Mike Sivetz developed, in 1975, a fluid bed 
"once-thru-air" coffee bean roasting machine that produces a clean 
"tar-free" non-biting, smooth tasting beverage.*
*Further, the Sivetz fluid bed roaster, with thermal bean sensor, is the 
only roaster that can measure true bean temperature, because the probe 
is in a stationary box containing the fluid bed of beans. This accuracy 
cannot be directly achieved by rotary cylinder machines due to the pure 
mechanical difficulty of probing a moving mass. You are truly receiving 
the best possible product available in the market today."**
*The Sivetz hot-air roaster allows each bean to develop its naturally 
distinctive flavor without the smoke and tar contamination that occurs 
in many roasters. You will gain confidence as your customers try new 
coffees and note the subtle differences, especially when they keep 
returning to you for more!*
<Snip>

25) From: Alchemist John
Some years ago, a version of this conversation came up and we set up 
a group of parallel roasts.  Single origin, multiple roast levels, 
air and drum roasters.  I extracted and analyzed around 8 different 
samples by GC/MS, looking in particular for differences in phenolic 
compounds (the benchmark for "smokey" or "peated").  I found 
conclusively, from a non-taste, purely analytical standpoint that 
there was not a quantifiable difference in regards to phenolics based 
on roast level nor roast method.
There is my take...
At 07:26 10/27/2006, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/


HomeRoast Digest