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Topic: OT: Frankenfood (13 msgs / 355 lines)
1) From: Aaron
It was written:
but what
about the people who avoid GM crops, only to have their crops
cross-pollinated by the neighboring farm?
=====
what about the people who plant burkee seeds just as an example, only to 
have their prime stock cross pollinated by the farmer next door using 
the el cheapo seeds?  We can't control the winds and the pollination is 
just as likely to happen as it would with any other breed of corn.    
What is the radius a corn plant can pollinate another plant at?  What 
kind of 'safe guards' would you recommend or would you just say ban GM 
foods because this might happen and because its simply just the easiest 
way?  GM foods are not the only 'invasive' plants... However, IF the 
corn plant is sterile as you claim they are, hence buying new seeds 
every year, then  how are they then pollinating other plants?  It's like 
a vasectomy,  the plant is shooting blanks.  No little corn huskers there.
You say farmers are forced to buy seeds every year because theirs are 
sterile.  Is this sterility a thing that was intentionally put into the 
genetic code, or is it just the way it is, because of the hybrid.?   I 
probably have my species mixed up but a horse and a donkey make a mule?? 
and mules can not make other mules because they are sterile.  Wow, talk 
about a genetic modification, making a mule because it's more fit for a 
certain job, oh we must ban all mules this instant!!  If it's just 
because of the way the genes are, then the conspiracy theory goes right 
out the window.  If it's intentionally put in there, yes you could say 
it's a big conspiracy, or you could also say it's a way of controlling 
the GM crop so that NO the farmer can NOT get the seed, reproduce it and 
regrow it unregulated or sell it to whoever... for the money.  Sterile 
seeds are quite a bit much less likely to start growing in places they 
are not wanted at.  Folks want regulation, so the seed is regulated so 
it can not reproduce, hence the 'control' of it,  then the same folks 
cry conspiracy.
Corn that sterilizes the male population being secretly let loose in 
mexico? First time I heard that one.  Wow, that's a new way to control 
the illegal alien invasion.  I bet they are putting it into the tortilla 
shells, that'll get em fer sure!
If you are talking about chemical treatments that sterilize the male 
population of the specific plant.. oh say the corn we are talking 
about.. then that is a technique to boost the overall yield of a hybrid 
and dealing with first generation plantings.  It helps keep the plant 
from self pollinating, but ill not bore you with details.
You are correct, both sides of a story need telling, but how much is 
facts, and how much is screeching just to make a point, no matter how 
flawed the data may be?
Big Business has a conspiracy, to make money off the little people. A 
company making a profit, shame on them... 
The little people have a conspiracy, to burn big business for the money 
they are jealous they don't have.
round and round we go.
Aaron

2) From: The Scarlet Wombat
Aaron, I fear you are missing a point or three.  The GM seeds are very 
often sculpted with intent to not reproduce viable seeds.  The farmer must 
purchase new seeds each year.  If the seeds are not so sculpted, the 
manufacturer of the seeds owns the genetic code and if a farmer uses a 
second planting without paying, he is infringing on a 
copyright/patent...not sure which, probably a copyright.
This means that the farmer who is not using these GM seeds in an adjoining 
field whose crops are mixed with the ones from the neighboring field using 
GM seeds may suffer damage if his crops are hybrid with the GM seeds enough 
so that they no longer reproduce, or have the copyrighted genetic code.
While profit is necessary for any company to remain viable, profit may be 
taken to extremes.  If a farmer wishes to use GM seeds and can guarantee 
that they do not pollute anyone else's crops, than she or he has the 
complete right to do so.  However, the owning of part or all of the genetic 
code of a plant by a corporation means they can charge anyone growing that 
particular variety.  The danger here is that poor farmers, and around the 
world, the vast majority are poor, will be made even poorer or fail if they 
must render to the corporation license fees.
Another danger that lurks is that of homogeneity of species.  No matter how 
carefully the genetic code is manipulated, there will be a bug that can get 
to that grain or whatever the product.  If too many use it, one superbug 
could wipe out millions of hectares of food.  Evolution is a good 
mechanism, it has given us good foods.  While there is certainly nothing 
inherently wrong with messing with the genetic code, trying to shortcut 
natural selection may produce results that are not even dreampt of now.  It 
might be argued that we should not live for potential dangers, and this may 
be true in many arenas of life, but trying to take shortcuts with evolution 
may prove dangerous.
Dan

3) From: Derek Bradford
Aaron (and everyone else),
I must apologize for keeping this on list.  I shouldn't have fueled
such an off-topic, and un-winnable debate.
I would like to take this opportunity to do three things: One, retract
my statement that humans were being sterilized in Mexico by a
particular strain of corn.  I read that once last year, and cannot
find it now.  Either I was confused, or the person who wrote what I
read was confused.  Either way, I can't substantiate my claim.  Two,
offer to continue the discussion off-list.  There's nothing wrong with
a good debate, but I don't feel like hijacking the list to do it.
Three, call foul to Aaron for belittling the people who disagreed with
what he and big business have to say.  We may not be a large corporate
voice, but we are a large voice indeed, and to declare us all jealous
conspiracy theorists is a very poor way to have any sort of dialogue.
Cheers,
--Derek
On 10/28/06, Aaron  wrote:
<Snip>
-- http://www.novernae.comHome of the Wandering Sloth

4) From: Brett Mason
It's the Evil American Corporation again.  They should all be shut
down.  And the executives should be charged.  And they shouldn't be
allowed to die without having a chance to appeal, otherwise their
heirs will keep the billions.  And everyone else will be starving for
a cup of oatmeal.  We need to boycot Quaker Oats.
All because some seeds have genetics.  It's a conspiracy.
Chicken Little Again
Brett
On 10/28/06, The Scarlet Wombat  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

5) From: Tom Bellhouse

6) From: Tom Ulmer
Brett,
The black helicopters will be hovering over your house tonight.
On a separate but unequal note, I understand there is legislation to build a
fence between Iowa and Illinois to keep the farm boys out of Chicago...

7) From: Aaron
Tom, they better put that fence south of chicago too or them kankakee / 
burbonais farm boys might team up with the iowans and invade chicago 
along with them..  Black helicopters, I thought they painted them blue 
now because too many people whined that the color black was too threatening.

8) From: Aaron
Real simple solution  is to grow your own food then you won't have to 
worry about conspiracies, jealousy, corporate greed, corruption, bad 
genes, bad hair days, or any of that stuff.  Glad to see though that I 
was lumped in with 'big business'... maybe the prices on the stocks I 
hold will go up now and I can retire rich with the spoils off all the 
little people we hold in the dirt. 
You claim justification simply because your group is a large or perhaps 
just loud voice.  Just because a collective voice may be large, doesn't 
necessarily imply sanity to it's ravings.  A certain group of germans in 
WWII had a large collective 'voice' and following, didn't make them 
right though did it?  I bet there was quite a large collective group 
during the salem witch hunts, I bet all the people burnt at the stake 
would disagree with their findings.  Im thinking a large group told 
christopher columbus the world was flat too, but he didn't go with the 
loud group, which is kind of cool, a globe really should be round, (well 
to be correct, spherical) and not two dimentional on a piece of paper 
with warnings of dragons beyond the edges.
Another note on the truth,  Truth is the truth no matter what.  We don't 
get to vote on the truth, or hold polls to see if it fits into our  
agenda's, because no matter what one decides they want to believe, the 
truth is still there, and it's still the truth.
I will respect your request though and take this off list and will no 
longer answer to this thread here unless I am asked something directly.
Aaron
On another topic, just got back from fishing,  .. terrible day,  you 
know you are having a bad day when the crabs are even eating your rubber 
lures!  At least the coffee was good.  I had a Kona blend using Moki, 
Purple Mountain, and Thunder Mountain.   WIth 30 MPH winds, hot coffee 
hit the spot perfectly.

9) From: Brett Mason
I knew the black helicopters were coming.  I just KNEW it...  Thanks
for the head's up!
Chicago is very safe.  Once a farm boy spends an extra day at O'Haire,
he'll never lust for Chicago again.  BUT, when a farm boy drives into
Chicago, he doesn't even notice the traffic.  His tractor is already
going full tilt - the 8 mph seems normal!
Brett
On 10/28/06, Tom Ulmer  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

10) From: Aaron
8 MPH, wow you must be on the Dan Ryan express way.  At least in a 
tractor you can run over and crush the insects that get in your way.  
That must really be fun.
Also, Midway airport is no better than O'Hare now, the traffic at both 
is terrible.  I bet that tractor ya is riding can cut right through that 
fence though.
Aaron

11) From: Scot Murphy
On Oct 28, 2006, at 8:55 AM, Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>
Finally, someone with some common sense.
Scot "you can't see the smiley, but it's there" Murphy

12) From: Scot Murphy
On Oct 28, 2006, at 10:22 AM, Tom Ulmer wrote:
<Snip>
Are you kidding? That fence would have to be erected just outside the  
suburbs. Don't forget, without Chicago, Illinois IS Iowa.
Scot "you can take the boy out of the farm, but you can't make it  
drink" Murphy

13) From: Scot Murphy
On Oct 28, 2006, at 3:04 PM, Aaron wrote:
<Snip>
In Great Lakes states, they're painted gray. Nine days out of ten,  
you can't see 'em.
Scot "it was sunny today...we're due for another in March" Murphy


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