It was written: but what about the people who avoid GM crops, only to have their crops cross-pollinated by the neighboring farm? ===== what about the people who plant burkee seeds just as an example, only to have their prime stock cross pollinated by the farmer next door using the el cheapo seeds? We can't control the winds and the pollination is just as likely to happen as it would with any other breed of corn. What is the radius a corn plant can pollinate another plant at? What kind of 'safe guards' would you recommend or would you just say ban GM foods because this might happen and because its simply just the easiest way? GM foods are not the only 'invasive' plants... However, IF the corn plant is sterile as you claim they are, hence buying new seeds every year, then how are they then pollinating other plants? It's like a vasectomy, the plant is shooting blanks. No little corn huskers there. You say farmers are forced to buy seeds every year because theirs are sterile. Is this sterility a thing that was intentionally put into the genetic code, or is it just the way it is, because of the hybrid.? I probably have my species mixed up but a horse and a donkey make a mule?? and mules can not make other mules because they are sterile. Wow, talk about a genetic modification, making a mule because it's more fit for a certain job, oh we must ban all mules this instant!! If it's just because of the way the genes are, then the conspiracy theory goes right out the window. If it's intentionally put in there, yes you could say it's a big conspiracy, or you could also say it's a way of controlling the GM crop so that NO the farmer can NOT get the seed, reproduce it and regrow it unregulated or sell it to whoever... for the money. Sterile seeds are quite a bit much less likely to start growing in places they are not wanted at. Folks want regulation, so the seed is regulated so it can not reproduce, hence the 'control' of it, then the same folks cry conspiracy. Corn that sterilizes the male population being secretly let loose in mexico? First time I heard that one. Wow, that's a new way to control the illegal alien invasion. I bet they are putting it into the tortilla shells, that'll get em fer sure! If you are talking about chemical treatments that sterilize the male population of the specific plant.. oh say the corn we are talking about.. then that is a technique to boost the overall yield of a hybrid and dealing with first generation plantings. It helps keep the plant from self pollinating, but ill not bore you with details. You are correct, both sides of a story need telling, but how much is facts, and how much is screeching just to make a point, no matter how flawed the data may be? Big Business has a conspiracy, to make money off the little people. A company making a profit, shame on them... The little people have a conspiracy, to burn big business for the money they are jealous they don't have. round and round we go. Aaron
Aaron, I fear you are missing a point or three. The GM seeds are very often sculpted with intent to not reproduce viable seeds. The farmer must purchase new seeds each year. If the seeds are not so sculpted, the manufacturer of the seeds owns the genetic code and if a farmer uses a second planting without paying, he is infringing on a copyright/patent...not sure which, probably a copyright. This means that the farmer who is not using these GM seeds in an adjoining field whose crops are mixed with the ones from the neighboring field using GM seeds may suffer damage if his crops are hybrid with the GM seeds enough so that they no longer reproduce, or have the copyrighted genetic code. While profit is necessary for any company to remain viable, profit may be taken to extremes. If a farmer wishes to use GM seeds and can guarantee that they do not pollute anyone else's crops, than she or he has the complete right to do so. However, the owning of part or all of the genetic code of a plant by a corporation means they can charge anyone growing that particular variety. The danger here is that poor farmers, and around the world, the vast majority are poor, will be made even poorer or fail if they must render to the corporation license fees. Another danger that lurks is that of homogeneity of species. No matter how carefully the genetic code is manipulated, there will be a bug that can get to that grain or whatever the product. If too many use it, one superbug could wipe out millions of hectares of food. Evolution is a good mechanism, it has given us good foods. While there is certainly nothing inherently wrong with messing with the genetic code, trying to shortcut natural selection may produce results that are not even dreampt of now. It might be argued that we should not live for potential dangers, and this may be true in many arenas of life, but trying to take shortcuts with evolution may prove dangerous. Dan
Aaron (and everyone else), I must apologize for keeping this on list. I shouldn't have fueled such an off-topic, and un-winnable debate. I would like to take this opportunity to do three things: One, retract my statement that humans were being sterilized in Mexico by a particular strain of corn. I read that once last year, and cannot find it now. Either I was confused, or the person who wrote what I read was confused. Either way, I can't substantiate my claim. Two, offer to continue the discussion off-list. There's nothing wrong with a good debate, but I don't feel like hijacking the list to do it. Three, call foul to Aaron for belittling the people who disagreed with what he and big business have to say. We may not be a large corporate voice, but we are a large voice indeed, and to declare us all jealous conspiracy theorists is a very poor way to have any sort of dialogue. Cheers, --Derek On 10/28/06, Aaron wrote: <Snip> -- http://www.novernae.comHome of the Wandering Sloth
It's the Evil American Corporation again. They should all be shut down. And the executives should be charged. And they shouldn't be allowed to die without having a chance to appeal, otherwise their heirs will keep the billions. And everyone else will be starving for a cup of oatmeal. We need to boycot Quaker Oats. All because some seeds have genetics. It's a conspiracy. Chicken Little Again Brett On 10/28/06, The Scarlet Wombat wrote: <Snip> -- Cheers, Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com
Brett, The black helicopters will be hovering over your house tonight. On a separate but unequal note, I understand there is legislation to build a fence between Iowa and Illinois to keep the farm boys out of Chicago...
Tom, they better put that fence south of chicago too or them kankakee / burbonais farm boys might team up with the iowans and invade chicago along with them.. Black helicopters, I thought they painted them blue now because too many people whined that the color black was too threatening.
Real simple solution is to grow your own food then you won't have to worry about conspiracies, jealousy, corporate greed, corruption, bad genes, bad hair days, or any of that stuff. Glad to see though that I was lumped in with 'big business'... maybe the prices on the stocks I hold will go up now and I can retire rich with the spoils off all the little people we hold in the dirt. You claim justification simply because your group is a large or perhaps just loud voice. Just because a collective voice may be large, doesn't necessarily imply sanity to it's ravings. A certain group of germans in WWII had a large collective 'voice' and following, didn't make them right though did it? I bet there was quite a large collective group during the salem witch hunts, I bet all the people burnt at the stake would disagree with their findings. Im thinking a large group told christopher columbus the world was flat too, but he didn't go with the loud group, which is kind of cool, a globe really should be round, (well to be correct, spherical) and not two dimentional on a piece of paper with warnings of dragons beyond the edges. Another note on the truth, Truth is the truth no matter what. We don't get to vote on the truth, or hold polls to see if it fits into our agenda's, because no matter what one decides they want to believe, the truth is still there, and it's still the truth. I will respect your request though and take this off list and will no longer answer to this thread here unless I am asked something directly. Aaron On another topic, just got back from fishing, .. terrible day, you know you are having a bad day when the crabs are even eating your rubber lures! At least the coffee was good. I had a Kona blend using Moki, Purple Mountain, and Thunder Mountain. WIth 30 MPH winds, hot coffee hit the spot perfectly.
I knew the black helicopters were coming. I just KNEW it... Thanks for the head's up! Chicago is very safe. Once a farm boy spends an extra day at O'Haire, he'll never lust for Chicago again. BUT, when a farm boy drives into Chicago, he doesn't even notice the traffic. His tractor is already going full tilt - the 8 mph seems normal! Brett On 10/28/06, Tom Ulmer wrote: <Snip> -- Cheers, Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com
8 MPH, wow you must be on the Dan Ryan express way. At least in a tractor you can run over and crush the insects that get in your way. That must really be fun. Also, Midway airport is no better than O'Hare now, the traffic at both is terrible. I bet that tractor ya is riding can cut right through that fence though. Aaron
On Oct 28, 2006, at 8:55 AM, Brett Mason wrote: <Snip> Finally, someone with some common sense. Scot "you can't see the smiley, but it's there" Murphy
On Oct 28, 2006, at 10:22 AM, Tom Ulmer wrote: <Snip> Are you kidding? That fence would have to be erected just outside the suburbs. Don't forget, without Chicago, Illinois IS Iowa. Scot "you can take the boy out of the farm, but you can't make it drink" Murphy
On Oct 28, 2006, at 3:04 PM, Aaron wrote: <Snip> In Great Lakes states, they're painted gray. Nine days out of ten, you can't see 'em. Scot "it was sunny today...we're due for another in March" Murphy