HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Newb dives in! (42 msgs / 1554 lines)
1) From: Tom Maynard
Hello,
I got my Freshroast Plus 8 only hours ago, along with a pound of
Honduran.  I've managed over time to assemble a for-cheap
roasting/grinding/brewing setup, mostly from eBay, scrounging and
unmitigated begging.
Once the roaster arrived, it was only after the time it took to read the
instructions, and to re-read Tom's tip sheet, before I plunked in two
rounded scoops of beans and dialed it to the 6.5 mark.
I heard cracking!  That would be the first crack (I surmised).  Some
time elapsed (not much!) and I heard cracking again!  That would be the
second crack -- or was it simply the first crack finishing up?  Who
knows!?  Certainly not me!
The beans began to brown, getting to a reasonably nice milk chocolate
color (I'm not calibrated for Agtron (yet))...but not quite as dark as a
Hershey's bar.  The machine entered its cool-down cycle (but
surprisingly never shut off automatically).  I waited patiently, and
then impatiently, and finally pulled the plug and dumped the nice, brown
beans into my colander.
Flip, flip, toss, toss, stir, stir -- they seemed cool to the touch.  I
pitched them into a container, loosely fitted the lid and then went
bragging to my wife: "See?!  Look what I just did!"  I'll grind and brew
them in the morning.  Who knows what to expect?  Certainly not me!
It seemed to me that 6.5 minutes on the FR8+ would put me someplace
desirable, roast-wise.  Perhaps it did.  Tomorrow we'll find out if this
is better than the Trader Joe's Moka Java that I've been brewing this
week -- which seemed rather musty and dull to me.
The house is still full of the smell -- not quite a "coffee" smell, but
more like a chocolate bar melted over tar paper, or a grass fire in a
sorghum field, or maybe pine cones and creosote.  Gosh, it's hard to
describe.  After all, this is my very fist time.
I wonder how it will all change when my Yrgacheffe arrives!
So, yes, I've put my foot on the slippery slope: roast my own (a la SM),
grind it carefully in my Zass (a la SM), take the plunge in my cafetiere
(a la SM), and sit back and slurp from my cup and thermos (20 oz brewed
at a time) -- this is my very own contribution .
Recently joined the list (yesterday), first time poster (today), brand
new taster (tomorrow!).  Wish me luck!
All the best, Tom.

2) From: Brian Kamnetz
Good to have you on the list, Tom. Let us know how the coffee turns out.
Brian
On 10/31/06, Tom Maynard  wrote:
<Snip>

3) From: Barry Luterman
Welcome Tom After your first taste tomorrow there will be no turning back

4) From: RK
welcome to the wonderful world of Home Roasting, and for sure life as you 
knew it will never be the same.
sounds like you did great for your first attempt.
First crack sounds like pop corn popping and 2nd sounds like rice krispies 
in milk or like crinkling up cellophane. and is more rapid.
Cheers
RK

5) From: Gerald and Beth Newsom
Welcome to the world of home roasting, Tom!  You certainly have dived right
in, but you've got more will power than I.  I could only wait four hours
before sampling my first roast---also a Honduran.  Mine turned out to be the
most awesome coffee I'd ever tasted and I'll bet that yours will, too.
Good luck!
Gerald

6) From: Eddie Dove
Tom,
Welcome to the list ... you don't have to wait, go ahead and chew on a few
of those beans.
Eddie
On 11/1/06, Gerald and Beth Newsom  wrote:
<Snip>

7) From: Lynne
Welcome, Tom - and let me say, you will never, ever go back to that 
Trader Joe Moka Java.
I started roasting some months ago (can't remember how long ago - need 
to check my SM's receipts to see!). When I started I insisted my trusty 
percolator made great coffee.
Made some in it on Sunday when guests visited, and believe me - that 
percolator is not worthy of SM's great beans.
You are in for a treat tomorrow morning - I found that even when I 
mistakenly roasted them too long - it was still so much better than any 
store bought coffee.
Mmmm.
Lynne
On Oct 31, 2006, at 8:44 PM, Tom Maynard wrote:
<Snip>

8) From: Brian Kamnetz
On 11/1/06, Lynne  wrote:
You are in for a treat tomorrow morning - I found that even when I
mistakenly roasted them too long - it was still so much better than any
store bought coffee.
Lynne,
I agree with that. It's easy to be disappointed when my coffee roasts,
extractions, etc, are not WONDERFUL, and it's easy to forget that my
homeroasted SM coffee is, at worst, VERY VERY GOOD!
Brian

9) From: Lynne
Words of wisdom!
On Nov 1, 2006, at 10:04 PM, raymanowen wrote:
<Snip>

10) From: raymanowen
Tom, greetings from fellow learners and list members!
Personally, I believe you would be well advised to get 5 or 10 pounds of one
coffee and practice on it. Roast it, brew it and perfect your process on
just the one coffee. Then the variations in flavor can be due only to the
process rather than the differences in the coffees themselves.
No single roast, age, grind or brewer is "correct." When you find a good
roasting and brewing combination, don't just sit on it forever. Don't toss
mistakes before you sample them or blend them. You might be surprised how a
roasting error tastes when it's aged, ground or brewed differently.
If you started out with 10# from Sweet Maria's, you should have 5# of
excellent beans left to enjoy after you've nailed down one good roast/brew.
Then start tinkering.
For me, the excellent assortments from Sweet Maria's represent a flavor
Disneyland for those who already are pretty good handlers of green coffee,
and want to try new coffees or blending.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa
"The indisputable truth is that no coffee is fresh if it isn't fresh
roasted." - -Martin Diedrich

11) From: Eddie Dove
Ditto on RayO!  All of it.
Eddie
On 11/1/06, raymanowen  wrote:
<Snip>

12) From: Leo Zick
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
"You might be surprised how a roasting error tastes when it's aged, ground
or brewed differently."
and this, my friends, is pure torture.
i think ive done something right, and it starts to taste bad.  i thought i
messed up 2 roasts this weekend, and they are starting to taste good.
im wondering if there really is an art or science to this at all, and if
just 'cooking' them with some sort of consistency is all you really need to
worry about.  
From: raymanowen [mailto:raymanowen] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 10:05 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Newb dives in!
Tom, greetings from fellow learners and list members!
Personally, I believe you would be well advised to get 5 or 10 pounds of one
coffee and practice on it. Roast it, brew it and perfect your process on
just the one coffee. Then the variations in flavor can be due only to the
process rather than the differences in the coffees themselves. 
No single roast, age, grind or brewer is "correct." When you find a good
roasting and brewing combination, don't just sit on it forever. Don't toss
mistakes before you sample them or blend them. You might be surprised how a
roasting error tastes when it's aged, ground or brewed differently. 
If you started out with 10# from Sweet Maria's, you should have 5# of
excellent beans left to enjoy after you've nailed down one good roast/brew.
Then start tinkering.
For me, the excellent assortments from Sweet Maria's represent a flavor
Disneyland for those who already are pretty good handlers of green coffee,
and want to try new coffees or blending. 
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa
"The indisputable truth is that no coffee is fresh if it isn't fresh
roasted." - -Martin Diedrich 

13) From: Tom Bellhouse
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Leo, I started out with a SC/TO rig that had the bottom heating element =
intact.  I was getting 6 minute roasts.  The coffee was -- interesting.  =
Rebuilt the /SC/TO for other reasons and disconnected the bottom heat, =
and now roasts are in the 12-18 minute range.  Coffee is much better.  =
I'm now playing with stretching the interval between 1st and 2nd, taking =
off the TO top for varying intervals to hold the temp back, and changing =
overall time by varying the amount of beans I roast at a time.  No temp =
probe.  This is all done with eyes, ears and nose, and the coffee is =
getting better, and better, and better...
Tom in GA
================
"Going to church does not make us Christians any more than stepping into =
our garage makes us a car." --Rev R. Neville

14) From: Tom Maynard
Thank you all for your replies and encouragement.
My first roast (6.5 on the FR8+) was mighty tasty.  I felt I could do better,
but seven hours later I was still thinking/smelling/tasting that cup of coffee
... and I realized that I had done very well indeed!
I also appreciate the advice of learning the craft with 5-10 pounds of a single
variety.  Okay, which one?!
Until yesterday morning, as far as I know, I'd never had a single varietal cup
of coffee in my life.  Which bean is a good "beginner's bean?"
Costa Rican, because it's "perfect?"  Colombian, because it's "standard?"  Where
to begin my 5-10 pound journey?  What did you start with?
Tom.

15) From: Lynne
Oh - oh. You do realize you are going to get about 2, maybe three 
hundred different suggestions?
And they will ALL be good...
I would have suggested Bolivia Organic Peaberry (forget the full name, 
still have only had one cuppa this morn & it's a rainy day in the 
Boston area..), but, alas (sniff, sniff) it's gone. Costa Rican is 
great, so is the Columbian Excelsio 13356 (got a lb in my last 
shipment, & I like it).
Others will have more suggestions, I am sure - it also helps that 
buying the 5 or 10 pounders cuts down on costs, too.
Above all - have fun!
Lynne
On Nov 2, 2006, at 8:54 AM, Tom Maynard wrote:
<Snip>

16) From: Leo Zick
I miss my harar horse green stripe.  That with the sumatra iskandar has been
my favorite brewed coffee yet.  Cant find a replacement. Just tried a yemen
with the sumatra and it's a bit too earthy for some reason. Man this crap is
baffling. lol

17) From: Leo Zick
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I just found this info. Wish someone would have shared it with me when I
first saw SM offerings. Lol.
Typical Taste Characteristics By Coffee Region
*	Central America: 
*	Mexico: Oaxaca Pluma and Alta Pluma are light bodied with milk
chocolate flavors, and an exceptional ability to carry the flavors into
darker roasts. Some Chiapas coffees can also be very good. 
*	Guatemala 
*	Antigua: Spicy, smoky cups that can take darker roasts. Heavier
bodied than most centrals 
*	Huehuetenango: delicate, delightfully floral, and buttery 
*	Other: Other regions in Guatemala produce some outstanding classic
cup coffees.
*	Costa Rica: 
*	Terrazu: Powerful and sweet citrus and nut flavors, heavier bodied
than most centrals 
*	Other: Some excellent classic cups come from other regions.
*	Panama: Panama coffees have an awesome reputation among
professionals and are virtually unknown by the wider public. The
quintessential classic cup coffee. 
*	Nicaragua: Milder in acidity than most centrals. Nicaraguan Bourbons
can have a variety of middle flavors like pear or vanilla; and roast flavors
reminiscent of pie crust or chocolate. 
*	El Salvador: Similar to Nicaragua. El Salvador is producing some
pulped natural coffees that are suitable for espresso
*	South America 
*	Colombia: Medium bodied, medium acid coffees, some of very high
quality. Mostly classic cup, but with occasional surprises. 
*	Brasil: Creamy bodied, low acid coffees. Much Brazilian coffee is of
poor quality, but some, used in premium espresso, are very fine. These are
mild tasting, mostly with milk chocolate, cherry, and sassafras notes 
*	Peru: Very high grown coffees. Poor samples are thin and sour; good
ones are also acidic, but have the sweetness, body, and rich caramel roast
tastes to balance. 
*	Bolivia: A new area. Medium bodied coffees like Colombia, some very
fine.
*	Islands 
*	Jamaica, Blue Mountain: When good, a quintessential classic cup,
mellow and sweet. 
*	Hawaii, Kona: Classic cup with fruit and vanilla flavors, sweet. 
*	Puerto Rico, Haiti, Cuba, and Santa Domingo: The good coffees are
smoky sweet with peat and molasses flavors. Highly prized by italian
blenders for espresso. 
*	St Helena and Galapagos: Floral coffees from heirloom varieties
reminiscent of Ethiopian Yrgacheffe and washed Sidamos 
*	Australia: Rejoining the coffee growing world after a long absence.
Too early to tell how the quality will turn out.
*	East Africa/Arabia 
*	Kenya: A famous quip in the trade is that Kenyas come in three
varieties: Citrus, Blackcurrant, and Horsehair. Great Kenyas will show the
citrus and blackcurrant in a single cup, along with spice, sweetness, and
some wineyness. We pass on the horsehair. 
*	Ethiopia 
*	Harar: Famous for its blueberry notes. Also expect apricot,
chocolate, leather, wineyness, and even gamey notes. These are dry process,
complex cups, prized for espresso blends 
*	Yrgacheffe: Famous for its potent floral aroma. Delicate citrus and
green tea notes accompany the flowers. Great Yrgs also have balancing
sweetness and middle fruit flavors. 
*	Other: Other regions produce cups intermediate between the Harar and
Yrgacheffe extremes. Quality can be very uneven; but well prepped lots can
be spectacular.
*	Tanzania, Rwanda and Zimbabwe: Similar to Kenyas, but more
understated in acidity and fruit. Frequently have ceder flavors. 
*	Yemen: Dry process, similar to Harar. The best ones are dizzyingly
complex, and have an effect similar to well aged wine or brandy. 
*	Burundi and Uganda: Lower acid, heavier bodied coffees with vanilla
and chocolate roast tastes. In good years, they can taste like spectacular
"super-javas;" but sadly, their quality is very uneven.
*	Indonesia 
*	Java: The first coffee growing area under European control; so the
name has become synonymous with coffee. Good quality Java is a very low
acid, very heavy bodied classic cup. Aged (old brown) Java has intense woody
roast tastes, extremely heavy body, and almost no acidity. 
*	Sumatra 
*	Mandheling: A dry process, heavy bodied, low acid, sweet coffee with
earthy, mushroomy flavors. The great ones have dark roast flavors somewhere
between chocolate and molasses. 
*	Other: Wet and semi-wet process coffees from Gayoland and Aceh have
somewhat more acidity and fewer deep flavors. Good lots are sweet and
plummy; poor lots somewhat dry and acerbic
*	Sulawesi Toraja (formerly Celebes Kalossi): A semi-wet processed
coffee, classic cup like Java, but with more exotic spice and dark fruit
flavors. Roast flavors tend towards chocolate. 
*	Papua New Guinea: Fruitier and lighter bodied than Sulawesis. Poor
ones can taste like beef broth; good ones like pleasantly exotic classic
cups. 
*	Bali: Prized by the Japanese for its flawless processing and
translucent emerald beans, hence expensive. Similar in its virtues and
faults to Papua New Guinea
*	India: The first region outside Arabia to cultivate coffee. Indian
coffees are very well processed. The highest grades are spicy and have hints
of tropical fruit. Monsooned varieties (a form of aging) are very heavy
bodied, have intense loamy and woody flavors, and are very low acid. Italian
blenders use Indian coffees in preference to Indonesian ones as bases for
espresso blends. Their use in the US is just beginning.

18) From: Sheila Quinn
I wouldn't say Costa Rican is "perfect" by any means. Although it is 
sometimes described that way, it certainly isn't one of my favorites... 
just my opinion, of course.
If you like Columbian, they have a really good one right now. I haven't 
had a chance to try it yet, but the reports are that it is wonderful. 
Oh, and it is quite cheap compared to many others - might be a good way 
to experiment without losing much money! Not sure how good it is at 
different roast levels, though.
You might want to buy a bean that is good at many different levels so 
that you can experiment and still end up with great coffee no matter 
what you do to it! :)
Sheila
Tom Maynard wrote:
<Snip>

19) From: Leo Zick
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
i can work my popper to get a 12-14min roast, but its sometimes so hard to
ID the cracks, ive just been going by color and surface oil. i get 1st crack
starting at 6:30, on average, but sometimes seems to extend to 10mins, then
2nd crack around 11:00, or sometimes right after first at 8mins.  who knows.
lol.  
From: Tom Bellhouse [mailto:altoid] 
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 8:42 AM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Newb dives in!
Leo, I started out with a SC/TO rig that had the bottom heating element
intact.  I was getting 6 minute roasts.  The coffee was -- interesting.
Rebuilt the /SC/TO for other reasons and disconnected the bottom heat, and
now roasts are in the 12-18 minute range.  Coffee is much better.  I'm now
playing with stretching the interval between 1st and 2nd, taking off the TO
top for varying intervals to hold the temp back, and changing overall time
by varying the amount of beans I roast at a time.  No temp probe.  This is
all done with eyes, ears and nose, and the coffee is getting better, and
better, and better...
 
Tom in GA
================
"Going to church does not make us Christians any more than stepping into our
garage makes us a car." --Rev R. Neville

20) From: Leo Zick
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
btw, tom - your sig doesnt make much sense. do you agree with it?  
From: Tom Bellhouse [mailto:altoid] 
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 8:42 AM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Newb dives in!
Leo, I started out with a SC/TO rig that had the bottom heating element
intact.  I was getting 6 minute roasts.  The coffee was -- interesting.
Rebuilt the /SC/TO for other reasons and disconnected the bottom heat, and
now roasts are in the 12-18 minute range.  Coffee is much better.  I'm now
playing with stretching the interval between 1st and 2nd, taking off the TO
top for varying intervals to hold the temp back, and changing overall time
by varying the amount of beans I roast at a time.  No temp probe.  This is
all done with eyes, ears and nose, and the coffee is getting better, and
better, and better...
 
Tom in GA
================
"Going to church does not make us Christians any more than stepping into our
garage makes us a car." --Rev R. Neville

21) From: Lynne
--Apple-Mail-44--513368996
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This is terrific - where did you find it? Is it on the SM website?
Lynne
On Nov 2, 2006, at 9:11 AM, Leo Zick wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
bodied with milk 
<Snip>
roasts. Heavier 
<Snip>
and buttery
<Snip>
outstanding classic 
<Snip>
flavors, heavier bodied 
<Snip>
other regions.
<Snip>
reputation among 
<Snip>
Nicaraguan 
<Snip>
is producing some 
<Snip>
some of very high 
<Snip>
Brazilian coffee is 
<Snip>
thin and sour; 
<Snip>
Colombia, some 
<Snip>
quintessential classic cup, 
<Snip>
flavors, sweet.
<Snip>
good coffees are 
<Snip>
<Snip>
heirloom varieties 
<Snip>
after a long 
<Snip>
come in three 
<Snip>
<Snip>
expect apricot, 
<Snip>
Delicate citrus 
<Snip>
between the Harar 
<Snip>
<Snip>
Kenyas, but more 
<Snip>
ones are dizzyingly 
<Snip>
coffees with 
<Snip>
<Snip>
European control; so the 
<Snip>
acid, sweet coffee 
<Snip>
<Snip>
Gayoland and Aceh 
<Snip>
<Snip>
semi-wet processed 
<Snip>
than Sulawesis. Poor 
<Snip>
processing and 
<Snip>
<Snip>
cultivate coffee. Indian 
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
--Apple-Mail-44--513368996
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This is terrific - where did you find it? Is it on the SM website?
Lynne
On Nov 2, 2006, at 9:11 AM, Leo Zick wrote:
I just found this info. Wish someone would have
shared it with me when I first saw SM offerings. Lol.
Typical Taste Characteristics By Coffee Region
	• 	Central America: 
	Lucida Grande◦
	Mexico: Oaxaca Pluma and Alta Pluma are light =
bodied
with milk chocolate flavors, and an exceptional ability to carry the
flavors into darker roasts. Some Chiapas coffees can also be very =
good.
	Lucida Grande◦
	Guatemala 
	Lucida Grande▪
	Antigua: Spicy, smoky cups that can take darker =
roasts.
Heavier bodied than most centrals
	Lucida Grande▪
	Huehuetenango: delicate, delightfully floral, and =
buttery
	Lucida Grande▪
	Other: Other regions in Guatemala produce some
outstanding classic cup coffees.
	Lucida Grande◦
	Costa Rica: 
	Lucida Grande▪
	Terrazu: Powerful and sweet citrus and nut flavors,
heavier bodied than most centrals
	Lucida Grande▪
	Other: Some excellent classic cups come from other
regions.
	Lucida Grande◦
	Panama: Panama coffees have an awesome reputation =
among
professionals and are virtually unknown by the wider public. The
quintessential classic cup coffee.
	Lucida Grande◦
	Nicaragua: Milder in acidity than most centrals.
Nicaraguan Bourbons can have a variety of middle flavors like pear or
vanilla; and roast flavors reminiscent of pie crust or =
chocolate.
	Lucida Grande◦
	El Salvador: Similar to Nicaragua. El Salvador is
producing some pulped natural coffees that are suitable for =
espresso
	• 	South America 
	Lucida Grande◦
	Colombia: Medium bodied, medium acid coffees, some =
of
very high quality. Mostly classic cup, but with occasional =
surprises.
	Lucida Grande◦
	Brasil: Creamy bodied, low acid coffees. Much =
Brazilian
coffee is of poor quality, but some, used in premium espresso, are
very fine. These are mild tasting, mostly with milk chocolate, cherry,
and sassafras notes
	Lucida Grande◦
	Peru: Very high grown coffees. Poor samples are =
thin and
sour; good ones are also acidic, but have the sweetness, body, and
rich caramel roast tastes to balance.
	Lucida Grande◦
	Bolivia: A new area. Medium bodied coffees like
Colombia, some very fine.
	• 	Islands 
	Lucida Grande◦
	Jamaica, Blue Mountain: When good, a quintessential
classic cup, mellow and sweet.
	Lucida Grande◦
	Hawaii, Kona: Classic cup with fruit and vanilla
flavors, sweet.
	Lucida Grande◦
	Puerto Rico, Haiti, Cuba, and Santa Domingo: The =
good
coffees are smoky sweet with peat and molasses flavors. Highly prized
by italian blenders for espresso.
	Lucida Grande◦
	St Helena and Galapagos: Floral coffees from =
heirloom
varieties reminiscent of Ethiopian Yrgacheffe and washed =
Sidamos
	Lucida Grande◦
	Australia: Rejoining the coffee growing world after =
a
long absence. Too early to tell how the quality will turn out.
	• 	East Africa/Arabia =
	Lucida Grande◦
	Kenya: A famous quip in the trade is that Kenyas =
come in
three varieties: Citrus, Blackcurrant, and Horsehair. Great Kenyas
will show the citrus and blackcurrant in a single cup, along with
spice, sweetness, and some wineyness. We pass on the =
horsehair.
	Lucida Grande◦
	Ethiopia 
	Lucida Grande▪
	Harar: Famous for its blueberry notes. Also expect
apricot, chocolate, leather, wineyness, and even gamey notes. These
are dry process, complex cups, prized for espresso blends
	Lucida Grande▪
	Yrgacheffe: Famous for its potent floral aroma. =
Delicate
citrus and green tea notes accompany the flowers. Great Yrgs also have
balancing sweetness and middle fruit flavors.
	Lucida Grande▪
	Other: Other regions produce cups intermediate =
between
the Harar and Yrgacheffe extremes. Quality can be very uneven; but
well prepped lots can be spectacular.
	Lucida Grande◦
	Tanzania, Rwanda and Zimbabwe: Similar to Kenyas, =
but
more understated in acidity and fruit. Frequently have ceder =
flavors.
	Lucida Grande◦
	Yemen: Dry process, similar to Harar. The best ones =
are
dizzyingly complex, and have an effect similar to well aged wine or
brandy.
	Lucida Grande◦
	Burundi and Uganda: Lower acid, heavier bodied =
coffees
with vanilla and chocolate roast tastes. In good years, they can taste
like spectacular "super-javas;" but sadly, their quality is very
uneven.
	• 	Indonesia 
	Lucida Grande◦
	Java: The first coffee growing area under European
control; so the name has become synonymous with coffee. Good quality
Java is a very low acid, very heavy bodied classic cup. Aged (old
brown) Java has intense woody roast tastes, extremely heavy body, and
almost no acidity.
	Lucida Grande◦
	Sumatra 
	Lucida Grande▪
	Mandheling: A dry process, heavy bodied, low acid, =
sweet
coffee with earthy, mushroomy flavors. The great ones have dark roast
flavors somewhere between chocolate and molasses.
	Lucida Grande▪
	Other: Wet and semi-wet process coffees from =
Gayoland
and Aceh have somewhat more acidity and fewer deep flavors. Good lots
are sweet and plummy; poor lots somewhat dry and acerbic
	Lucida Grande◦
	Sulawesi Toraja (formerly Celebes Kalossi): A =
semi-wet
processed coffee, classic cup like Java, but with more exotic spice
and dark fruit flavors. Roast flavors tend towards chocolate.
	Lucida Grande◦
	Papua New Guinea: Fruitier and lighter bodied than
Sulawesis. Poor ones can taste like beef broth; good ones like
pleasantly exotic classic cups.
	Lucida Grande◦
	Bali: Prized by the Japanese for its flawless =
processing
and translucent emerald beans, hence expensive. Similar in its virtues
and faults to Papua New Guinea
	• 	India: The first region =
outside Arabia to
cultivate coffee. Indian coffees are very well processed. The highest
grades are spicy and have hints of tropical fruit. Monsooned varieties
(a form of aging) are very heavy bodied, have intense loamy and woody
flavors, and are very low acid. Italian blenders use Indian coffees in
preference to Indonesian ones as bases for espresso blends. Their use
in the US is just beginning.=
--Apple-Mail-44--513368996--

22) From: Stephen Niezgoda
I am going to suggest the exact opposite
I think too many new roaster are hung up on getting the perfect roast.
Personally I will take variety  and new experiences over perfection any day.
I suggest buying a double sampler and 4 extra LBS of whatever strikes you
fancy (so Harvey can handle it)
and have fun.
If I buy a 5lb bag, I roast 1 maybe 2 lbs out of it and it sits for a year.
There are always so many interesting new coffees to try!
On the downside sometimes I really miss the sweet spot for a particular
coffee, oh well to bad. At least I have something new every few days.  On
average I get to try >50 great coffees a year.
Wing it - you really can't screw up
Steve
On 11/2/06, Tom Maynard  wrote:
<Snip>

23) From: Leo Zick
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
from a potential competitors site, so i guess i shouldnt post the link.  
From: Lynne [mailto:lynnebiz] 
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 9:24 AM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Re: Newb Dives In!
This is terrific - where did you find it? Is it on the SM website?
Lynne
On Nov 2, 2006, at 9:11 AM, Leo Zick wrote:
I just found this info. Wish someone would have shared it with me when I
first saw SM offerings. Lol.
Typical Taste Characteristics By Coffee Region
. Central America: 
? Mexico: Oaxaca Pluma and Alta Pluma are light bodied with milk chocolate
flavors, and an exceptional ability to carry the flavors into darker roasts.
Some Chiapas coffees can also be very good.
? Guatemala 
? Antigua: Spicy, smoky cups that can take darker roasts. Heavier bodied
than most centrals
? Huehuetenango: delicate, delightfully floral, and buttery
? Other: Other regions in Guatemala produce some outstanding classic cup
coffees.
? Costa Rica: 
? Terrazu: Powerful and sweet citrus and nut flavors, heavier bodied than
most centrals
? Other: Some excellent classic cups come from other regions.
? Panama: Panama coffees have an awesome reputation among professionals and
are virtually unknown by the wider public. The quintessential classic cup
coffee.
? Nicaragua: Milder in acidity than most centrals. Nicaraguan Bourbons can
have a variety of middle flavors like pear or vanilla; and roast flavors
reminiscent of pie crust or chocolate.
? El Salvador: Similar to Nicaragua. El Salvador is producing some pulped
natural coffees that are suitable for espresso
. South America 
? Colombia: Medium bodied, medium acid coffees, some of very high quality.
Mostly classic cup, but with occasional surprises.
? Brasil: Creamy bodied, low acid coffees. Much Brazilian coffee is of poor
quality, but some, used in premium espresso, are very fine. These are mild
tasting, mostly with milk chocolate, cherry, and sassafras notes
? Peru: Very high grown coffees. Poor samples are thin and sour; good ones
are also acidic, but have the sweetness, body, and rich caramel roast tastes
to balance.
? Bolivia: A new area. Medium bodied coffees like Colombia, some very fine.
. Islands 
? Jamaica, Blue Mountain: When good, a quintessential classic cup, mellow
and sweet.
? Hawaii, Kona: Classic cup with fruit and vanilla flavors, sweet.
? Puerto Rico, Haiti, Cuba, and Santa Domingo: The good coffees are smoky
sweet with peat and molasses flavors. Highly prized by italian blenders for
espresso.
? St Helena and Galapagos: Floral coffees from heirloom varieties
reminiscent of Ethiopian Yrgacheffe and washed Sidamos
? Australia: Rejoining the coffee growing world after a long absence. Too
early to tell how the quality will turn out.
. East Africa/Arabia 
? Kenya: A famous quip in the trade is that Kenyas come in three varieties:
Citrus, Blackcurrant, and Horsehair. Great Kenyas will show the citrus and
blackcurrant in a single cup, along with spice, sweetness, and some
wineyness. We pass on the horsehair.
? Ethiopia 
? Harar: Famous for its blueberry notes. Also expect apricot, chocolate,
leather, wineyness, and even gamey notes. These are dry process, complex
cups, prized for espresso blends
? Yrgacheffe: Famous for its potent floral aroma. Delicate citrus and green
tea notes accompany the flowers. Great Yrgs also have balancing sweetness
and middle fruit flavors.
? Other: Other regions produce cups intermediate between the Harar and
Yrgacheffe extremes. Quality can be very uneven; but well prepped lots can
be spectacular.
? Tanzania, Rwanda and Zimbabwe: Similar to Kenyas, but more understated in
acidity and fruit. Frequently have ceder flavors.
? Yemen: Dry process, similar to Harar. The best ones are dizzyingly
complex, and have an effect similar to well aged wine or brandy.
? Burundi and Uganda: Lower acid, heavier bodied coffees with vanilla and
chocolate roast tastes. In good years, they can taste like spectacular
"super-javas;" but sadly, their quality is very uneven.
. Indonesia 
? Java: The first coffee growing area under European control; so the name
has become synonymous with coffee. Good quality Java is a very low acid,
very heavy bodied classic cup. Aged (old brown) Java has intense woody roast
tastes, extremely heavy body, and almost no acidity.
? Sumatra 
? Mandheling: A dry process, heavy bodied, low acid, sweet coffee with
earthy, mushroomy flavors. The great ones have dark roast flavors somewhere
between chocolate and molasses.
? Other: Wet and semi-wet process coffees from Gayoland and Aceh have
somewhat more acidity and fewer deep flavors. Good lots are sweet and
plummy; poor lots somewhat dry and acerbic
? Sulawesi Toraja (formerly Celebes Kalossi): A semi-wet processed coffee,
classic cup like Java, but with more exotic spice and dark fruit flavors.
Roast flavors tend towards chocolate.
? Papua New Guinea: Fruitier and lighter bodied than Sulawesis. Poor ones
can taste like beef broth; good ones like pleasantly exotic classic cups.
? Bali: Prized by the Japanese for its flawless processing and translucent
emerald beans, hence expensive. Similar in its virtues and faults to Papua
New Guinea
. India: The first region outside Arabia to cultivate coffee. Indian coffees
are very well processed. The highest grades are spicy and have hints of
tropical fruit. Monsooned varieties (a form of aging) are very heavy bodied,
have intense loamy and woody flavors, and are very low acid. Italian
blenders use Indian coffees in preference to Indonesian ones as bases for
espresso blends. Their use in the US is just beginning.

24) From: John Blumel
On Nov 2, 2006, at 9:23 am, Lynne wrote:
<Snip>
It is not from the SM's web site. Which brings up two points.
First of all, it is not OK to just do whatever you want with  
copyrighted materials. And, in case you're wondering, everything is  
copyrighted upon creation, without question, so unless there's a  
specific release to the public domain, or grant of other license for  
use, copying or redistribution, just assume that all you're allowed  
to do is read the material, and refer other people to it. If people  
would show some respect for copyright laws, we wouldn't now have  
draconian measures like the DMCA. Furthermore, taking this  
information and posting it to SM's mailing list is no different than  
people taking Tom's reviews and posting them as their own.
Which raises the second point. Yes, it's OK in the US to quote small  
bits of copyrighted materials for non-commercial purposes, under the  
"fair use" provisions of copyright law (although, the amount of  
material quoted in this instance, in my opinion, exceeds what is  
legitimate under fair use), but it's not OK to do so without  
attribution. (Even if they release it under a license that doesn't  
require attribution, it's still "right" to credit them for authoring  
the material) Just pulling information off someone else's web site  
without giving them any credit for it is no different than stealing  
it from them. Sure, your intentions may have been good, and you may  
not really have thought through the implications of what you were  
doing, but think about it now, and when you do post information from  
other sources, give them the credit they deserve for authoring it,  
and respect their copyrights.
Oh, and Typical Taste Characteristics By Coffee Region is from,
   http://www.coffeecuppers.com/CoffeeTastingGlossary.htmon a web site run by Bob Yellin and Jim Schulman, both of whom are  
past, and possibly present, members of this list.
John Blumel

25) From: John Blumel
On Nov 2, 2006, at 9:56 am, jthompso wrote:
<Snip>
No, in the US, everything is automatically copyrighted upon creation.
John Blumel

26) From: David B. Westebbe
<Snip>
" If people  
would show some respect for copyright laws, we wouldn't now have  
draconian measures like the DMCA."
Bullshit.  Content owners have long sought to abuse copyright for thieir =
own
monetary gain, and the DMCA is but one recent example.  If it were up to
them, there would be no home video, no such thing as public libraries, =
and
you would have to (re)buy content for every different player you own.  
You likely feel sorry for the impoverised artists, like Madonna and
Metallica. Your loyalties are misplaced.

27) From: David B. Westebbe
<Snip>
Nope.  Close, but no cigar.  
Indeed, the underlying misunderstandings shine through, illuminating your
prior comments.

28) From: Tom Bellhouse
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

29) From: John Blumel
On Nov 2, 2006, at 10:21 am, David B. Westebbe wrote:
<Snip>
Blatant theft of copyrighted materials and other intellectual  
property directly provides the ammunition that is used to lobby for  
laws like the DMCA, as well as supporting arguments for all the  
restrictions you say you deplore.

30) From: John Blumel
On Nov 2, 2006, at 10:23 am, David B. Westebbe wrote:
<Snip>
Oh, really? Please enlighten us. Exactly what must occur for a work  
to fall under copyright protection?

31) From: Tom Ogren
Fellas, Kindly note future Off-topic responses (i.e.-copyright discussions,
etc...) as "OT" in accordance with list rules / etiquette, etc...
Many thanks. Let's keep it clean y'all.
On 11/2/06, John Blumel  wrote:
<Snip>

32) From: Brett Mason
Hi John,
Excellent reminders...
Brett
On 11/2/06, John Blumel  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

33) From: Vince Doss
While it was a little heavy-handed, I thought it was a great thread
hijacking!!
Welcome aboard Tom! Maynard!!
This was a "Teaching moment" that was realized for me in that:
1) I now have a new link in my humongous Coffee Favorites folder:http://www.whatiscopyright.org/3) I am now more knowledgeable about what Wikipedia describes as:http://tinyurl.com/4mzkda vulgar word in Modern English denoting feces, the byproduct of digestion.">http://www.coffeecuppers.com/CoffeeTastingGlossary.htm2) I now feel I know the answer to John and David's debate on copyright:http://www.whatiscopyright.org/3) I am now more knowledgeable about what Wikipedia describes as:http://tinyurl.com/4mzkda vulgar word in Modern English denoting feces, the byproduct of digestion.
Thank you all
Vince....shuffling back to my network closet...the curse of sitting in front
of computers all day.
On 11/2/06, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
At some point between French and fire, it really doesn't matter much what
the "origin character" of the coffee was...
Tom Owens - Sweet Marias

34) From: David B. Westebbe
<Snip>
For one thing, it must be fixed in a tangible medium of expression.  Thus,
for example, if the work is "created" (your word) by singing it, it is not
"automatically copyrighted".
There are other requirements as well.  I can recommend a good book if you'd
like.

35) From: John Blumel
On Nov 2, 2006, at 1:07 pm, David B. Westebbe wrote:
<Snip>
True, although in most actual cases of significance, in practical  
terms, this is often, and certainly in the present case, a  
distinction without a difference.

36) From: Rich Adams

37) From: David B. Westebbe
<Snip>
Of course.  But if I were concerned primarily about the sound quality, =
I'd
listen to the vinyl.  I like to keep my extensive archive of music on a =
hard
drive, and MP3s have certain size advantages.

38) From: Leo Zick
first, i stated that the data was from another site, and did not post  
the sites name for fear of violating this lists rule of 3rd party  
advertising.  i did not claim the info to be my own either.  this  
raises a conundrum, doesnt it? post the info to be helpful, and either  
dont credit the authors and violate the SM listrule, or post the  
credit, and be flamed for 'advertisement'.  tough call, isnt it?
second, the dmca, among many other organizations, would exist  
regardless of peoples desire to learn and share data. if people had  
decency to openly share data and not look to sue others in an non stop  
attempts to profit, lawyers wouldnt exist and constantly be creating  
laws, would they?
third, i did not post the data in a commercial atmosphere, so it meets  
the dmca's regulatory requirements of personal use.  your opinion of  
the amount of text is just that, opinion.  draconian measures?  if  
thats the case, our world revolves around them.  people cant smoke in  
restuarants b/c of draconian measures. people cant speed b/c of them  
either. so please dont chastise me for offering to share useful data  
that is helpful to home roasters of any level.
i apologize to the list for offering this commercial data, and having  
the entire audience be part of the lecture following it.
Quoting John Blumel :
<Snip>

39) From: Leo Zick
thats a tough call.  from the COPYRIGHT.GOV website,note this:
"Works consisting entirely of information that is common property and  
containing no original authorship (for example: standard calendars,  
height and weight charts, tape measures and rulers, and lists or  
tables taken from public documents or other common sources)"
copyrights arent handed out freely.  original, unique works are  
copyrighted, if published.  gathering data from many sources and  
posting it to a website is not copyrightable by law, unless they  
applied for it.
i view this as sort of like applying for a patent. you cant take a  
belt buckle, attach it to a tie, and patent it.  neither are unique  
ideas, but simply a combination of designs that have been prviously  
created.
youre loose definition of what can be copyrighted doesnt sit well with  
me.  according to your definition, and the copyrights office of being  
allowed to copyright a sound recording, you can tape a phone  
conversation and claim it your own.  but, continuing with the law, its  
illegal in many states under the FCC to record phone convos.
Quoting John Blumel :
<Snip>

40) From: Leo Zick
I agree with you.  if i were you, id put what you wrote in your sig. :)
Quoting Tom Bellhouse :
<Snip>

41) From: Justin Marquez
On 11/2/06, Leo Zick  wrote:
<Snip>
They are about $35 each to apply for, if I recall correctly from the
last set of songs my wife had copyrighted.
<Snip>
In music, if you make an arrangement of your own of a public domain
song, then you can copyright YOUR arrangement. If you make your own
arrangement of someone elses copyrighted song, then you can get what I
think is called a "derivative copyright".  You pay the originator for
the rights to use his song, then you own the rights to the use of your
unique arrangement of it.
And I think John is correct in that anything you create is covered,
but it is much easier to defend those rights if you get the official
documentation to prove date of creation and authorship.
The process involves sending in a copy of what you want covered along
with the application and your check - i.e., the sheet music showing
the words and music notation or a copy of your shiny new CD, or a
tape, etc.
"Fair use" gets a lot of abuse.  Is it fair to make a CD-R of your old
vinyl?  If you don't DISTRIBUTE it, yes. A backup is permitted.  You
can play that CD-R for your own enjoyment all you want.  But if you
sell one or even give one to a friend, you have violated the fair use
provisions.
I know that many folks want to get it for free, but it just ain't
right. EVEN if it is Madonna's.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)

42) From: Blake D. Ratliff
I agree with you on that one Sheila.  While I am one that can certainly 
appreciate a good Costa Rican I often times have felt I was at risk of 
having a bad one in the past.  I currenlty have some Costa Rican Tarrazu La 
Minta and I roasted it to a C and found it to have a sour aftertaste even 
after several days rest.  I had to roast it to a FC to remove the sourness 
that is offensive to my taste.  However at a FC this bean has been a real 
pleasure and worthy of its praise.  But Guatelmala Antigua is still my 
favorite central American.
Blake


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