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Topic: Some Posts I've Never Seen (20 msgs / 510 lines)
1) From: Heat + Beans --all the rest is commentary
(of course, I've not seen everything and forgotten most of what I have)
"I bought a Silvia, but wish I'd saved some money and gone with a cheaper
Gaggia."
"I chose an hx/E-61, but, really, who needs it!?  There are so many cheaper
ways to go."
Just sharing some recently-given advice:  Buy the best "class" of machine
and the best machine in that class that you can afford so long as you are
confident that your enthusiasm for espresso will be long-lasting. Some
people may regret "over-buying," but most people never look back once
they've sprung for the "better" of the alternatives they are looking at.
Any disagreements?  Elaboration?
-- 
Martin
Heat + Beans
    all the rest is commentary

2) From: Brett Mason
I wish I had gone with the Braun.  Did you know it will make drip coffee
too?  I don't know why anyone would spend more....
Brett
On 11/4/06, Heat + Beans --all the rest is commentary <
heatgunroast> wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

3) From: Sheila Quinn
You're absolutely right.
And in the long run, it's actually MORE expensive to start out too 
cheaply. I'm not talking about grabbing a great bargain here - obviously 
we would all love that! But if you buy poor quality items just because 
they are cheaper, you'll hate them and want to upgrade that much sooner. 
So you end up spending money on the good machine anyway - AND you have 
wasted money on the crappy one that now sits in the garage or just gets 
thrown away.
At least if you buy something GOOD and decide you don't really want it, 
you can re-sell it. As someone mentioned, used Silvias still command a 
premium price! (As with other better machines, of course.) But a used 
low-end anything won't bring you any of your money back, expect maybe 
two or three dollars at a yard sale if you're lucky.
I've had to learn this the hard way a few times. It's good to be a 
bargain shopper, but it isn't good to spend money of any amount on junk!
Sheila
Heat + Beans --all the rest is commentary wrote:
<Snip>

4) From: Heat + Beans --all the rest is commentary
An important piece of  this "spend-more/spend less" discussion is how people
go about setting an always arbitrary price point.  IMO, if someone can
afford $350, but cannot afford $500, well . . . then they really shouldn't
spend the $350 either.  OTOH, many people who might be able to spend "lots"
of money on a coffee machine might decide that $350 fits their priorities,
confidence, budget, and so forth.
I  figure that it's our job on this list to give espresso lovers who are on
the edge a nudge toward getting a better machine. Their spouses can't be
relied upon and their colleagues think they are crazy. So it's up to
us----tough work, but someone has to do it.
Martin
On 11/4/06, Sheila Quinn  wrote:
<Snip>

5) From: Brett Mason
If you don't know what you need,
then you better get a good price,
so when it won't deliver what you want,
you can declare that you've saved money!
I was quoted in Christian Computing mag for that phrase back in 1994.  Was
about strategic planning, but it also applies to much in life...  Point:
figure out what you need, then plan on how to get there...
Brett
On 11/4/06, Heat + Beans --all the rest is commentary <
heatgunroast> wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

6) From: miKe mcKoffee
<Snip>
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Brett Mason
<Snip>
	
<Snip>
	then you better get a good price, 
	so when it won't deliver what you want, 
<Snip>
	
<Snip>
1994.  Was about strategic planning, but it also applies to much in life...
Point: figure out what you need, then plan on how to get there... 
	
<Snip>
Dang something isn't quite right here, I agree with you!;-) (List woke back
up for me about an hour ago after almost two days dead, weird)
Part of the purchase planning challenge is lack of experience and knowledge
of the subject matter, especially when it comes to home espresso and
especially importance of grinders. Being told to spend more for a grinder
than most spent on ANY coffee apparatus ever before, including roaster,
seems to usually be a tough if not impossible pill to swallow.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.

7) From: Heat + Beans --all the rest is commentary
On 11/4/06, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>
That declaration is all important; especially when "value"  and "need" are
so slippery.  Because "saving money" is an indisputable Good, getting a
"bargain"  looms large when working through the logic of counter-cultural
spending (i.e. dropping $500, 1k, or 2k on a coffee machine).
A friend was staggered after he asked the cost of my LaSpaziale S1 (on
order).  Then I asked about the "upgraded" wheels and stereo for his new
car.  He beat me by nearly $1000 on the extravagance scale, but was not
convinced that the "intrinsic" value of our different indulgences were
comparable..
BTW, "Christian Computing"  has me pleasantly bewildered.  I can't tell if
my ignorance is in the domain of  a) religion,  b) IT, c) both, or d)
coffee.
Respectfully,
-- 
Martin
Heat + Beans
    all the rest is commentary

8) From: miKe mcKoffee
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Personally I'd equate upgraded stereo (if for purity of sound not just loud)
of equal importance to quality espresso machine and grinder while $2k wheels
seem intrinsically vanity. 
 
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee 
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc: http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htm
Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Heat + Beans
--all the rest is commentary
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 5:32 PM
On 11/4/06, Brett Mason  wrote: 
you can declare that you've saved money!
Brett
That declaration is all important; especially when "value"  and "need" are
so slippery.  Because "saving money" is an indisputable Good, getting a
"bargain"  looms large when working through the logic of counter-cultural
spending (i.e. dropping $500, 1k, or 2k on a coffee machine).  
A friend was staggered after he asked the cost of my LaSpaziale S1 (on
order).  Then I asked about the "upgraded" wheels and stereo for his new
car.  He beat me by nearly $1000 on the extravagance scale, but was not
convinced that the "intrinsic" value of our different indulgences were
comparable..  
BTW, "Christian Computing"  has me pleasantly bewildered.  I can't tell if
my ignorance is in the domain of  a) religion,  b) IT, c) both, or d)
coffee.  
Respectfully,
-- 
Martin
Heat + Beans
    all the rest is commentary

9) From: Aaron
That is a very interesting point. 
When YOU spend money on a 'passion' you are 'pissing it away'  yet 
someone else can spend far more on their 'addiction' and that's quite ok.
I simply pointed out that with MY addiction EVERYONE can enjoy a cup of 
coffee and does,  with your addiction only you really get to enjoy it... 
ie I don't give a $% about your stupid tires.
I find that a good comeback...if you wish is... ok, do you like this 
coffee?... do you like it better than the stuff in the stores?.. ok so 
do I, so what's the matter with spending some money on equipment that 
will last YEARS and bring enjoyment to many people??
but yes, I do find it simply amazing that someone will spend thousands 
on a car stereo or spinners or something like that, and that is 
perfectly ok, yet they want to criticise you for spending money on 
something you like.
I do have to admit, I was one of those stereo types way before it became 
'cool' to have 1400 watts in your car.  I had top of the line equipment 
though, and wasn't playing the 99 dollar 1.5 megawatt Kraco 
Distortionmatic amp game.  I wanted clarity and clean in my boom.    I 
know folks who have spent thousands on a good home stereo system.  They 
are music o phyles.  to them the quality of the music is paramount.   I 
can agree with this, it is a passion just as we are with our coffee.  
Some folks do it with camera equipment, its their passion and only the 
very best will do, you have to appreciate that dedication and passion there.
The spinners you mention.  Personally I despise them, along with many 
other things related.... they really don't improve the performance of 
the vehicle and are more of a show thing than a practical item... but 
then who am I to tell you what you can throw your money at?  To each is own.
which brings me to this...
How was break dancing invented???
someone tried to steal a set of spinners.
Aaron

10) From: raymanowen
e) all of the above - for me! -ro

11) From: Ross
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Hi Brett,
You only spent an extra $50 for the Silvia and you got a much higher =
quality machine, and a far superior boiler, don't regret it.
regards, 
ross

12) From: raymanowen
On 11/4/06, Aaron  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976

13) From: Brett Mason
Christian Computing is a magazine targetted at the business needs of
ministries, and also of protecting one's person while trolling the Internet
for personal helps.  Ministries actually have a stronger security need than
most businesses.  They have people who work an office, plus accounting.  In
addition, there are notes about member finances/stewardship.  Furthermore
there are ministry notes, such as for counselling, care and nurture.  In
effect, if a ministry's systems are compromised, many many lives can be
affected.  Finally, most ministries get less of a budget than most
businesses, and they have to protect more.
SO, support your local ministry, understand they are encouraging people. and
BRETT IS STILL AGAINST BUYING THE WRONG ESPRESSO HARDWARE...
Jon indeed chose a good system to start withm and will do fine....
'Nuff said.
Not that I agree with Mike McK on anything.
he is my Bro' though,
Brett
On 11/4/06, Heat + Beans --all the rest is commentary <
heatgunroast> wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

14) From: Sheila Quinn
...  I wish I'd bought "Coffee Maker" I saw advertised in the Fry's ad 
this week. No brand name or anything; it just said "coffee maker" with a 
generic-looking photo. Wow - what a great deal! You just know that 
anyone buying that item really knows good coffee. I wonder if they also 
have "Coffee Grinder" to go along with it. :)
Sheila
Heat + Beans --all the rest is commentary wrote:
<Snip>

15) From: Les
Sheila,
Folgers in the Fresh Lock container tastes the same as a new can even
after it has been opened for 48 days.  I saw it on TV!  They tested a
"new" can against one that had been opened already!  I guess I had
better get some of those.  It would go well with your new coffee
maker.
Les
(tongue firmly planted in cheek)
On 11/4/06, Sheila Quinn  wrote:
<Snip>

16) From: Sheila Quinn
With a combination like that, how can you go wrong? That is brilliant! ;)
Sheila
p.s. When I'm done with it, how about if I re-use the awesome Fresh Lock 
container for my home roast? I can pre-grind it months ahead of time and 
it will still taste the same? Right???
Les wrote:
<Snip>

17) From: Casey Jones
I agree.  I waited for about a year to buy a Rocky and have never
thought I overbought.  Nor did I ever wish I had bought a lesser
grinder earlier on.  But I knew that I would eventually get an
espresso machine.
My espresso machine didn't come for a year later.  So it was
Chemex/French Press for a year.  A capable grinder just waiting and
waiting...
I had planned on Silvia, but when the time came to plunk down the cash
I went with an HX.  Yes I ended up spending twice as much, but again
no regrets.....except I wish I had squeezed a bit more for the
direct-plumb option.
I think I'm set for awhile.
SO here's where I contradict myself...
I'm to the point where I'm looking upgrade my roasting equipment. I'm
tired of the small batches that I get with poppers.  Our coffee
consumption has increased to where I can't keep up.  I'd love to get
an RK drum setup, but I'm not willing to wait.  So I'm off to get a
heat gun.
It's all a slippery slope.
-Casey
On 11/4/06, Heat + Beans --all the rest is commentary
 wrote:
<Snip>

18) From: Brett Mason
Do you have the BBQ with the side burner?
If so, consider the following:
  buy the motor from RKDrums
  buy a $10 stainless steel trashcan from local store with red concentric
circle logo
  drill out all the rivets holding plastic pieces in place
  use stainless steel rivets and "L" shaped steel barr for vanes and
skeletal structure to re-attach rounded top
  cut across the flat bottom to make a "door, and use steel hinges+pop
rivets to attach
  buy a rottisserie bar and mount...
      That's what I did...  RK Drum still in my future, but drum currently
works pretty good...
If not, instead of an $80 heat gun, consider buying a BBQ (40K+ BTU) with
side burner (10K+ BTU), and
  get a steel skillet at thrift store.
  Get a flat steel spatula to lift and fold over the beans.
      That's what I did first - this will do up to 2lb loads, and will be on
the path toward the drum
Today I use each method, depending on what I want to try to achieve...
Brett
On 11/5/06, Casey Jones  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

19) From: Alchemist John
I will shoot for some rambling elaborations.  The first espresso 
machine I bought was a Gaggia Classic.  In some ways, it was the best 
in its class (of Gaggia's).  I looked at a Sylvia, and just didn't 
want to go there.  The extra $200 for appearances and stainless was 
not where I wanted to go.  I have never regretted the decision.  I 
have pulled shots side by side with a few Sylvias and the shots were 
of the same comparable quality.
If anything, I am now happier that I didn't go with the "better" 
machine, because it would still reside where my current Gaggia is - 
in storage.  I did a lateral upgrade to two lever machines and found 
I no longer used the Classic.  I know there is a line of thought that 
I could have sold the Sylvia by now and re-couped my costs, but that 
would have actually required telling people I have a machine for sale 
:)  (psst, working good condition gaggia classic for sale - contact 
off list :P) but this way I have $300 sitting in storage - not $550.
So, it isn't quite what you said, but I can say this
"I bought a cheaper Gaggia, and I am glad I did not go for the more 
expensive Silvia".  I would have regretted over buying.
At 14:51 11/4/2006, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

20) From: Heat + Beans --all the rest is commentary
John,
Regarding your garage machine that's worth whatever.  Typically, only
embarrassment and lack of space can motivate me to unload something "used."
And then, I usually try to give it away.  I hate the responsibility of
selling something that I'd feel nervous about buying.  I hate Ebay.  I hate
PayPal.  I hate negotiating a bargain or "holding firm."  Couple of years
ago, I wanted to sell a high-end camera that I'd replaced.  It was worth it
to me to send it in to Canon and pay over $200 for a check-up "before"
selling.
But just last week I sold my non-working Isomac Tea from a CoffeeGeek forum
ad.  IMO, it was a good deal for the buyer and painless for me.
Martin
On 11/5/06, Alchemist John  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Martin
Heat + Beans
    all the rest is commentary


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