HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Side-by-side comparison of SM and SB (30 msgs / 774 lines)
1) From: Vince Doss
Someone gave me a *$ gift card for fixing their computer, they knew I
was into coffee but alas, the uninitiated often make this mistake of
equating SB's with coffee fanatics...anyway, I asked a friend who
lives close to a store to pick up a pound of coffee with the 20.00
card and give the balance to the tip jar and we would see if we could
drink it. It was their Cafe Estima; a blend of Latin American and East
African coffee. It should be noted that it was not burned to a crisp,
I visually inspected it and it was dark but no signs of 2nd crack
shrapnel, there were a lot of crushed beans as if someone had started
to grind it and thought better and emptied the grinder. I had a 90/10
blend of Panama Carmen Estate C+ and Ethiopian Ghimbi FC. I brewed a
pot of each of 70gr in 1.25L of water in the Capresso MT500, decanted
them into thermal carafes and set them out and asked the 6 people that
are in my coffee club to try them both(they were unaware of what I was
doing). To the (wo)man each of them not only chose my coffee but found
the SB coffee to be especially without flavor.Honestly their
descriptions were: no flavor, tastes like toilet water, as soon as it
leaves your tongue it's just gone.....
Just sharing =)
Vince
-- 
At some point between French and fire, it really doesn't matter much
what the "origin character" of the coffee was...
Tom Owens - Sweet Marias

2) From: john irwin
Thanks for sharing Vince. I like these comparisons because they solidify the 
philosophy of small batch roasting. I am not a SB basher but I am sure the 
coffee will approach “blah, blah” as their market share increases.
coffeechaser.com
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3) From: Brian Kamnetz
On 11/8/06, Vince Doss  wrote:
<Snip>
1.25 L of water = 42.3 ounces, with 70 g of coffee, so your ratio of coffee
to water is 1.7 g of coffee per oz of water. That's pretty stout, and
therefore your colleagues' descriptions ("no flavor" etc) is even more
remarkable.
Brian

4) From: Justin Marquez
On 11/8/06, Vince Doss  wrote:
<Snip>
I wonder how they knew how toilet water tastes..
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)

5) From: Brian Kamnetz
On 11/8/06, Justin Marquez  wrote:
<Snip>
I wonder how they knew how toilet water tastes..
I'm hoping they meant the toiletry and not the toilet....

6) From: Vince Doss
hmmmm,  but you bring up a good point,  though I have gone by the SCAA
recommended ratio of 55gr/Liter which is 1.626 gr/oz so using that
ratio comes up to 69gr/1.25l pot. I usually use between 65 and 70 gr
and everyone seems to like it. I never thought it was too strong.
Their coffee was just noticeably without any "juice", I tossed the
whole pound because I told them I wasnt going to drink it and I wasnt
going to pawn it off on anyone else lest they think this stuff was "my
coffee". I am going to go get the bag and look at the date on it.
On 11/8/06, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
At some point between French and fire, it really doesn't matter much
what the "origin character" of the coffee was...
Tom Owens - Sweet Marias

7) From: Vince Doss
The date stamp is:
BEST BEFORE:14APR2007Y
L041407Y30730B  192691
I thought you could tell the roast date from this....anyone?
On 11/8/06, Vince Doss  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
At some point between French and fire, it really doesn't matter much
what the "origin character" of the coffee was...
Tom Owens - Sweet Marias

8) From: Sandy Andina
--Apple-Mail-28-24912705
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Reincarnation--perhaps they were dogs or cats in their past lives.....
On Nov 8, 2006, at 11:35 AM, Justin Marquez wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
--Apple-Mail-28-24912705
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Reincarnation--perhaps they were =
dogs or cats in their past lives.....
On Nov 8, 2006, at =
11:35 AM, Justin Marquez wrote:

I wonder how they knew how = toilet water tastes..

Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-28-24912705--

9) From: Spectrum
Wednesday, November 8, 2006, 10:40:33 AM, you wrote:
<Snip>
Interesting experiment. I've received my share of SB cards too. In
case anyone else gets one (and has learned from your experiment),
the muffins and cheesecakes aren't too bad. I've bought coffee cups,
shot glasses, chocolates, breath mints and CDs from their stores too.
Angela

10) From: Sandy Andina
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They sell Jones diet sodas, which are Splenda-sweetened and quite good.
On Nov 9, 2006, at 5:54 AM, Spectrum wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
--Apple-Mail-50-105390401
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They sell Jones diet sodas, =
which are Splenda-sweetened and quite good.
On Nov 9, 2006, =
at 5:54 AM, Spectrum wrote:
Someone gave me a *$ gift card = for fixing their computer, they knew Iwas into = coffee but alas, the uninitiated often make this mistake ofequating SB's with coffee fanatics... = Interesting experiment. I've received my share of SB = cards too. Incase anyone else gets one (and = has learned from your experiment),the muffins = and cheesecakes aren't too bad. I've bought coffee cups,shot glasses, chocolates, breath mints and CDs from = their stores too. Angela homeroast mailing listhttp://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change your personal list settings (digest = options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings = Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-50-105390401--

11) From: David B. Westebbe
<Snip>
April 15, 2005?

12) From: Justin Marquez
On 11/9/06, David B. Westebbe  wrote:
<Snip>
No... that date is one where it tastes like $tale crapola. And, of
course, the 300 days or so before that one, too.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)

13) From: raymanowen
I do not know, but I can surmise it's all just an alphanumeric sham. I think
the salient term in "BEST BEFORE:14APR2007Y" is the Y.
It means, "Whenever you drink this, it would have been best before Yesterday."
Expect nothing- you won't be disappointed.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder? Save it for real coffee...

14) From:
I frankly do not think you can compare SM to SB on any kevel.
ginny

15) From: David Liguori
I take it you mean Starbucks.  Someone should write it out at least 
once!  (Especially since in computer geek circles SB often refers to 
Sound Blaster).
Vince Doss wrote:
<Snip>

16) From: raymanowen
"Someone should write it out at least once!"
You just did- for the Nth time. The folks that still missed it will continue
to wonder. -ro

17) From: Lynne
I thought SB was pure BS.
(sorry, I had to say it..)
Lynne
On Nov 10, 2006, at 6:50 AM, David Liguori wrote:
<Snip>

18) From: Brett Mason
SB has done a fine job of moving people toward the notion of "Wuality"
coffee...  Sure tehy have steered their own business side, bu they have
elevated the visibility of coffee tremendously...
Brett Mason  (BM - for what it's worth)
On 11/10/06, Lynne  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

19) From: Justin Marquez
On 11/10/06, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>
We slam ol' *$ here, but I think their coffee IS better than buying
canned Foulgers at the store and brewing it in dirty and under-temp
equipment at home. So, folks who are accustomed to that style of home
coffee can appreciate the improvement. *$ has capitalized on that
improvement and continues to make good money doing it.
What we have with our homeroasted is a quantum leap better. *$ _could_
make a better product.  OTOH, why should they make any changes to
their successful business model?  "If it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT!"
Their business is NOT making the best coffee on the planet, but making
a good profit.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)

20) From: Tom Ulmer
Maybe it's just the result of all the political mudslinging as of late, but
I am reminded of "Hey I am the people's choice because this other fellow is
just simply a bigger turd than I am" or "I are better than them because,
well, it is me of course".
On the other hand, if the subject point of declaration is that the coffee
buyer that we buy our coffee from suits my coffee fancies better than the
coffee buyer of the establishment that it seems that many love to denigrate,
I certainly must agree.

21) From: Vince Doss
My intent was not to malign Starbucks but just to convey my little
validation of what we all know. I am not a starbucks basher really, I
appreciate what they have done for coffee a long time before I got
into homeroasting. I did however start buying fresh roasted whole bean
coffee back around 1987. I hate to shop at Walmart too but I admire
what Sam Walton did. I just get satisfaction when I enlighten someone
as to the sheepish way people have been brainwashed to think that
Starbucks has good coffee. People think I am crazy when they see the
lengths I go to about coffee...200.00 coffee pots, 500.00
grinders...installing a water filter at work just for the
coffee,weighing my beans before brewing, ok, so I'm a little OCD and
get carried away sometimes.  But then there's the other "hobbies" of
Live audio recording, the Martin D-28 Marquis, the Nikon D2x, the
woodworking...people kind of know that if I am interested in
something, I will get a little obsessed. I'm not wealthy, I just like
to get good things, It kind of lets people see that I'm not so
crazy.That was really my only point in sharing my story...vindication
of my my "whacky" choices,not to bash Starbucks
On 11/10/06, Tom Ulmer  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
At some point between French and fire, it really doesn't matter much
what the "origin character" of the coffee was...
Tom Owens - Sweet Marias

22) From: Sandy Andina
--Apple-Mail-106-188344657
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What are you using to record? And how do you like that Marquis? How  
does it differ from the V or GE line? (I have a D-18GE, and though I  
normally prefer rosewood to mahogany, that Adi top and forward/ 
scalloped bracing makes it sound loud AND exquisite).
On Nov 10, 2006, at 10:34 AM, Vince Doss wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
--Apple-Mail-106-188344657
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What are you using to record? =
And how do you like that Marquis? How does it differ from the V or GE =
line? (I have a D-18GE, and though I normally prefer rosewood to =
mahogany, that Adi top and forward/scalloped bracing makes it sound loud =
AND exquisite).
On Nov 10, 2006, at 10:34 AM, Vince Doss =
wrote:

Live = audio recording, the Martin D-28 Marquis,

= Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-106-188344657--

23) From: john irwin
I am in SB not (non-basher remember) a customer came in and left empty 
handed. He asked for the Verona roast. He departed quickly before I could 
comment. The scene engaged me return with a question, are their any personal 
blends similar?
More information from SB, "The acidity of Latin American coffees and the 
rich earthy flavor of Indonesian coffees are both detectable. An addition of 
Italian Roast contributes a pleasant and smoky sweetness."
One second thought you do can go with a City++ Sumatra to get pleasant and 
smoky sweetness.
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24) From: Brett Mason
Roast 1/4lb Sumatra to Spanish Roast+
Roast 1/4lb Vietnames Robusta to Spanish Roast+
Roast 1/4lb Uganda Bugisu to Spanish Roast+
Roast 1/4lb Ethiopan Yirgaccheffe to Spanish Roast+
Blend
Reheat lb of coffee to Spanish Roast++ to add some carbon flavor
Cool
Store in an open bowl on back porch for 30 days
Breww and Serve, with an extra large slice of moist chocolate brownie (add
$4.50 for brownie).
Make sure you have lots of milk, creme and half-n-half, plus sugar and "raw"
sugar.  This will help bring out the sweetness in your drink.
Enjoy!
Brett
On 11/10/06, john irwin  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

25) From: Sheila Quinn
That sounds about right. But if you're out of one of these beans or want 
to save money, you can just substitute straight charcoal for one or more 
parts of the blend. For added body, scrape up the burned remnants of 
your Duraflame log from the fireplace and add it to the blend. It's good 
filler and won't change the flavor. :)
Sheila
Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>

26) From: Vince Doss
I have  AKG 391 mics> Lunatec V3 Pre A-D> Marantz PMD671>8GB Compact
Flash which give me 4 hours of 24bit 96KHz recording. I am learning to
Mix/Master/Post in Adobe Audition (Cool Edit Pro) . I also have a
small "stealth"kit DPA4061 micro omnis>DPA's MMA6000 Pre
A-D>Microtrack2496>same 8GB card (it shares time with the camera too).
I just pulled a show in Philly last weekend of a friends band from LA
that I am trying to resample and track now.
My wife and I started taking lessons last year (everyone we know and
hang with plays...and we love music!!)and bought the HD 28V (my first
guitar) and a 000C 16GTE for her. 3 months later we "found" the
Marquis and was just blown away by the difference in sound. I thought
the wider nut would make it easier to learn on (jury still out on
that) but I just traded the HD-28V for a Taylor 714ce . The Marquis
has a 1 3/4" nut and wider spacing at the bridge than the HD (1
11/16"nut) but they both have the modified V neck. The Marquis also
has the Adirondack Top and Bracing...The Golden Era D-28 had Brazilian
Rosewood back/side s. East Indian Rosewood, and I think that is the
only difference between it and the D-28 Marquis (which would add about
10K to the price). The D-18GE series has a Mahogany Side/Back and
Brazillian headplate but I think they are similar to the Marquis
otherwise.It was neat to hear the difference between the HD and the
Marquis and also a regular D-28. Anyway I started playing my wife's
000C and found the low oval neck makes it much easier to play (learn)
barre chords so that is why I traded the HD (I think I will keep the
Marquis(es) forever ( I have the Natural and wife has the Sunburst),
it is just an awesome instrument and with practice, I will be able to
do it justice some day). I saw where you were at Jammin' Java, we go
there alot and record. Let me know if you head back to the DC area, we
would love to see you!!
Vince
On 11/10/06, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>

27) From: Heat + Beans --all the rest is commentary
Well, now - - - I love to play my Santa Cruz OM; but my "Baby" Taylor is
what goes in the trunk or in the overhead.  I rely on my Canon 1D mkII; but
I'll still grab my Nikon 990 to cut down weight on a hike.  And I'd much
prefer my homeroast and careful shot pulling, but I can handle a cup of
Starbucks without making myself miserable.
Martin
On 11/10/06, Vince Doss  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Martin
Heat + Beans
    all the rest is commentary

28) From: Sandy Andina
--Apple-Mail-139-223133291
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I prefer to gig with either my Taylor 414rce or--because it's  
currently in the shop--my Martin D-18GE plus Taylor 422R; but when I  
am not gigging when I fly, either the Big Baby, Larrivee Parlour, or  
deceptively inexpensive D-16 is what goes in the overheads. I have  
several 35mm SLRs, but these days, even the Canon A95 stays home in  
favor of my camera phone. And I'll gladly take a macchiato or breve  
from *$ when I'm on the road or in the airport and beginning to fade-- 
and that Green Mermaid sign comes into view.
On Nov 10, 2006, at 8:47 PM, Heat + Beans --all the rest is  
commentary wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
--Apple-Mail-139-223133291
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I prefer to gig with either my =
Taylor 414rce or--because it's currently in the shop--my Martin D-18GE =
plus Taylor 422R; but when I am not gigging when I fly, either the Big =
Baby, Larrivee Parlour, or deceptively inexpensive D-16 is what goes in =
the overheads. I have several 35mm SLRs, but these days, even the Canon =
A95 stays home in favor of my camera phone. And I'll gladly take a =
macchiato or breve from *$ when I'm on the road or in the airport and =
beginning to fade--and that Green Mermaid sign comes into =
view.
On Nov 10, 2006, at 8:47 PM, Heat + Beans --all the =
rest is commentary wrote:
Well, now = - - - I love to play my Santa Cruz OM; but my "Baby" Taylor is what goes = in the trunk or in the overhead.  I rely on my Canon 1D mkII; but I'll = still grab my Nikon 990 to cut down weight on a hike.  And I'd much = prefer my homeroast and careful shot pulling, but I can handle a cup of = Starbucks without making myself miserable.  = Martin Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-139-223133291--

29) From: Les
This thread is almost meaningless to me.  If I can't find a shop like
Stumptown or Barefoot roasters, I will go without.  Now that I have an
Areopress, I don't see any reason to go without.  If I were really in a
pinch like antelope hunting, I would pre-grind and vacuum seal individual
servings.
Les
On 11/10/06, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>

30) From: Heat + Beans --all the rest is commentary
IMO, Just about ANY thread with 29 posts is going to have trouble holding on
to "meaning."   But I do find some meaning here in the nooks and crannies.
It's interesting that for some people, less-than-excellent coffee is
intolerable; whereas for myself and some others, there's a contiunum.
Admittedly, I've been known to open a foil pack of grounds and pop it into
my hotel room Mr. Coffee, just to negotiate the crowd until I could make it
into the closest Starbucks.  But I'm not entirely sure that my "coffee
standards" are any lower than those who'd rather "go without." (not that I'm
suggesting thay you've made that judgement).
I think it's probably more a personality thing than a cupping matter. There
are some people who cannot abide by decaf  and disparage it with the same
intensity that they and others serve up on Starbucks.  Personally, I know
the difference between the good stuff the lesser quality, but there are
still times when decaf or just plain bad coffee can be enjoyable -----or at
least better than no coffee at all.
Martin
On 11/10/06, Les  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Martin
Heat + Beans
    all the rest is commentary


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