Hey, I don't want to write a dissertation, but the recent starbucks rant thread knocked some chaff loose from my brain. It reminded me to ask you folks about results in my SC/TO. Essentially, I've found that with anything I roast in there I need to take it to FC+ to get any origin flavor. Usually what happens is the end of first crack and almost immediately the start of second crack. If I wait to see a few shiny beans I usually get it right and the end roast usually just has a few beans with drops of oil coming out of them (aside from the 5-6 shiny ones)... I like the flavor and have no complaints, its just it seems inconsistent with what everyone else including Tom reports about what to expect when roasting.. I usually go full blast in the SC/TO until first crack and then back off until the unit turns off then on until the unit turns back on (heating element)... Thoughts? -- Steven Hay hay.steve -AT- gmail.com Barry Paradox: Consider k to be the greatest element of the set of natural numbers whose description require maximum of 50 words: "(k+1) is a natural number which requires more than 50 words to describe it."
How long is your roast taking? I would guess you are on a kind of fast profile (7-9 min?), which can lead to needing to have the appearance of darker, as the inside does not have time to equilibrate. If the full roast time is 11-13 minutes, I find I can roast "lighter" with fuller flavor. At 04:11 11/22/2006, you wrote: <Snip> John Nanci AlChemist at large Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/
<Snip> John, I think this assessment is true. Quick to 2nd is sign of a fast/hot roast. <Snip> Here I will say that this is true up until 2nd crack. Before 2nd crack you are heating from the outside in, just as you say. In other words, it is endothermic. At 2nd crack it reverses and you are heating from the inside out as it goes exothermic. We know he is going to FC+, so his beans are hotter on the inside when he dumps them. He needs to roast lighter, not darker. It wouldn't hurt to lengthen the time between cracks, too. Dan
Yea, I used to get to second crack really quickly in the SCTO and the = coffee was still good, but over time I've made it my goal to draw the = roasts out to 15-20 minutes and the coffee is really excellent compared = to the quicker roasts I've done. This brings up a couple of questions I've had. Is it desirable to get to = first crack more quickly and then let the coffee roast slowly to second = crack? Or is it more desirable to take more time getting to first crack = and then move quickly to second crack? Or equal of each? Or something = else all-together? Thoughts? later, jason From: homeroast-admin on behalf of Alchemist John Sent: Wed 11/22/2006 8:19 AM To: homeroast Subject: Re: +Benefits of a Darker Roast (SC/TO) How long is your roast taking? I would guess you are on a kind of fast profile (7-9 min?), which can lead to needing to have the appearance of darker, as the inside does not have time to equilibrate. If the full roast time is 11-13 minutes, I find I can roast "lighter" with fuller flavor. At 04:11 11/22/2006, you wrote: <Snip> describe it." John Nanci AlChemist at large Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/eJ8+IiQOAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAKAAAAFJFOiArQmVuZWZpdHMgb2Yg YSBEYXJrZXIgUm9hc3QgKFNDL1RPKQA9DAEFgAMADgAAANYHCwAWAAkAIgAiAAMATgEBIIADAA4A AADWBwsAFgAJACIAIgADAE4BAQmAAQAhAAAAOTkyOUVFOTkwQzk0MjU0MkJDMEM0QzRDODI5MzQ5 MUQAJAcBA5AGACQWAAA4AAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAPxWaVEMOxwEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAA AAIBRwABAAAALAAAAGM9VVM7YT0gO3A9QVRHaTtsPURFUlJJREEtMDYxMTIyMTQzNDM0Wi0yOTUA HgBJAAEAAAAoAAAAUmU6ICtCZW5lZml0cyBvZiBhIERhcmtlciBSb2FzdCAoU0MvVE8pAEAATgCA WbnVOA7HAR4AWgABAAAAJgAAAGhvbWVyb2FzdC1hZG1pbkBsaXN0cy5zd2VldG1hcmlhcy5jb20A AAACAVsAAQAAAGkAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABob21lcm9hc3QtYWRtaW5AbGlz dHMuc3dlZXRtYXJpYXMuY29tAFNNVFAAaG9tZXJvYXN0LWFkbWluQGxpc3RzLnN3ZWV0bWFyaWFz LmNvbQAAAAACAVwAAQAAACsAAABTTVRQOkhPTUVST0FTVC1BRE1JTkBMSVNUUy5TV0VFVE1BUklB 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I ain't gonna touch the endo/exo thing - I like you too much :) At 06:27 11/22/2006, you wrote: <Snip> John Nanci AlChemist at large Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/
You know, I really dislike (no offense) all this "longer and shorter" and "more and less". IMO, makes it rather difficult for the newbies and even for others that want to adjust. I like numbers. So, my recommendations for "general" roasting of this style, it should take about 2/3 to 3/4 of the roast time to reach 1st crack if you are going to 2nd crack (should you take it that far). The smaller the batch, the shorter you can generally get the roast, but I have yet to find fully developed flavor (with rare exceptions) in less than an 11 minute roast. Good, yes, but virtually always improved by at least 11 minutes. Same note, I find 20 minutes a bit long for my taste, with 17 minutes being my maximum and usually 14 minutes being my target. At 06:34 11/22/2006, you wrote: <Snip> John Nanci AlChemist at large Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/
<Snip> In that case, I won't say a word either! http://www.claycritters.com/coffee/calorimetric_study_of_coffee.htm;) Dan <Snip>
Im pretty sure roasting is exothermic the entire time. Aren't beans primarily concerned of carbs? This would mean the sugar produces more energy than they consume..
<Snip> [mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Jason D. Montgomery <Snip> <Snip> the coffee was still good, but over time I've made it my goal to draw the roasts out to 15-20 minutes and the coffee is really excellent compared to the quicker roasts I've done. <Snip> get to first crack more quickly and then let the coffee roast slowly to second crack? Or is it more desirable to take more time getting to first crack and then move quickly to second crack? Or equal of each? Or something else all-together? Thoughts? <Snip> later, <Snip> Yes, no, depends, sometimes something else! Way way to complicated to answer yes or no to any of your questions. I break the roast profile basically into four major segments: 1) Drying/equalizing/pre-tanning. 3 to 4 minutes to my 300f. 2) Tanning. 20 to 30f/min to my 350f. 3) Browning. 15 to 30f/min to my 400f. 4) Roasting. 1st crack usually kicks in my 395 to 405f depending on bean and setup ramp. Here back off the ramp to 10 to 15f/min 400f to 430f, then 5 to 15f/min depending on final degree of roast target/type of bean/intended brewing method. Slower ramp for lighter finish roast. Regardless the bean or brewing method targeted usually minimum 3 minutes from start of 1st to end of roast, sometimes as long as 6 minutes. You need to find out for yourself what profile(s) work best for you and your roasting method for different beans different brewing methods. Roast the same bean different profiles and compare. Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Hey, that's my man - some "hard" data to deal in. I will have a look. At 07:02 11/22/2006, you wrote: <Snip> John Nanci AlChemist at large Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/
This is exactly what I have found on my Gene Cafe. Eddie On 11/22/06, Alchemist John wrote: <Snip>
--Apple-Mail-238--916217571 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset -ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Have you tried preheating the SC before adding the beans? I preheat it for two minutes, add the beans, put the TO on top, set to 450F and 20 min.; when I hear first crack (usually about 3-5 min. in) I unplug the heater on the SC (separately wired from the stirrer); when I see my first embers (abt. 5-7 min. in) I lower the heat to 350F; and when first crack is over (abt. 6-8 min.) lift the TO to check for color and aroma, and (usually) replace the TO and raise it to 400F till second begins and thereafter till I like what I see. By that point it's been 10-12 min. Then I remove the TO and just let the stirrer keep going till the beans are cool enough to scoop up in a slotted spoon and place in a colander. (After half an hour in the open-air stir mode, they're pretty cool to the touch, and the colander is only necessary to sift out residual chaff and any divots). I've gotten some pretty good City+ and FC roasts that way. On Nov 22, 2006, at 8:27 AM, Dan Bollinger wrote: <Snip> Sandy www.sandyandina.com www.sass-music.com --Apple-Mail-238--916217571 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset O-8859-1 Have you tried preheating the SC = before adding the beans? I preheat it for two minutes, add the beans, = put the TO on top, set to 450F and 20 min.; when I hear first crack = (usually about 3-5 min. in) I unplug the heater on the SC (separately = wired from the stirrer); when I see my first embers (abt. 5-7 min. in) I = lower the heat to 350F; and when first crack is over (abt. 6-8 min.) = lift the TO to check for color and aroma, and (usually) replace the TO = and raise it to 400F till second begins and thereafter till I like what = I see. By that point it's been 10-12 min. Then I remove the TO and = just let the stirrer keep going till the beans are cool enough to scoop = up in a slotted spoon and place in a colander. (After half an hour in = the open-air stir mode, they're pretty cool to the touch, and the = colander is only necessary to sift out residual chaff and any divots). = I've gotten some pretty good City+ and FC roasts that = way. On Nov 22, 2006, at 8:27 AM, Dan Bollinger = wrote:
Good question. When I preheat, my roast is about 10 minutes. When I do not preheat, 15. On 11/22/06, Alchemist John wrote: <Snip> -- Steven Hay hay.steve -AT- gmail.com Barry Paradox: Consider k to be the greatest element of the set of natural numbers whose description require maximum of 50 words: "(k+1) is a natural number which requires more than 50 words to describe it."
Embers? My process is usually this: 1) Dump 1# green beans in SC/TO 2) Energize TO at 500 F. (No bottom heat.) 3) Wait about 12-13 minutes until first crack. 4) Dial down to about 375 F. 5) Listen to first crack for a few minutes. First crack slows/stops. Second crack starts immediately 6) Sometimes I stop the roast here. I usually let second go on for a bit before pulling out. If I see a few shiny boogers in there I stop because I don't want to French my roast. If I preheat, I lose about 5 minutes off the beginning, I find. If I stop the roast at the end of first crack and the beginning of second, I get an uninteresting and sometimes sour flavor to the coffee. Going longer is when I start to get marmelade, etc. The PNG is a good example. Some says marmelade is at City+ but I don't get it until the magic smoke comes out of the bean at second crack. On 11/22/06, Sandy Andina wrote: <Snip> -- Steven Hay hay.steve -AT- gmail.com Barry Paradox: Consider k to be the greatest element of the set of natural numbers whose description require maximum of 50 words: "(k+1) is a natural number which requires more than 50 words to describe it."