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Topic: Brewed Coffee Taste - KMB and TV (18 msgs / 361 lines)
1) From: Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
My Technivorm (TV) arrived from SweetMarias last week.
I was quite excited to try it out. Some of you have read about my taste 
issues with the Krups Moka Brew (KMB) (astringency).
I put it through two cycles with water only, to make sure it was clean.
Then I tried it with some Kenya beans, six days past roasting to 425F 
(bean mass temp) in my Hottop.
Imagine my disappointment when I got the same astringency I had 
experienced with the KMB!
Next day I tried it with some Colombia, roasted to the same stage at the 
same time.
This time I used a gold cone filter, instead of the paper one I used the 
first day.
Still astringency, though not as strong. The coffee also was not as 
strong flavored, probably because it flowed through the metal filter 
faster than through paper.
Next time I'll grind finer.
Thinking it through, what the KMB and TV have in common, which my other 
brew methods (Swiss Gold One Cup and AeroPress) may not, is temperature.
Both work at getting the brew water really hot.
I've noticed that people who make both espresso and brewed coffee have 
commented on using darker roasts for their espresso. The reason that I 
have heard is that the heat and pressure of espresso making emphasizes  
acidic flavours.  Perhaps I have a similar thing going in the KMB and TV.
So today I am roasting Java Djampit and Uganda Bugisu to a rolling 
second crack (435 F).
I'll let you know my results.
Dave S.

2) From: Steve Hay
On 11/24/06, Maryann & Dave Schellenberg  wrote:
<Snip>
I think you mean coarser...
Just trying to help..
-- 
Steven Hay
hay.steve -AT- gmail.com
Barry Paradox: Consider k to be the greatest element of the set of natural
numbers whose description require maximum of 50 words: "(k+1) is a natural
number which requires more than 50 words to describe it."

3) From: Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
Nope. If the water flows through too fast now, then I will grind finer 
so that it flows slower.
But thanks for trying to help.
Dave S.
Steve Hay wrote:
<Snip>

4) From: Steve Hay
But if overextraction is your suspected problem, wouldn't you want a faster
flow rate so that the water is in contact with the beans for less time?
On 11/24/06, Maryann & Dave Schellenberg  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Steven Hay
hay.steve -AT- gmail.com
Barry Paradox: Consider k to be the greatest element of the set of natural
numbers whose description require maximum of 50 words: "(k+1) is a natural
number which requires more than 50 words to describe it."

5) From: Eddie Dove
Dave,
Just curious, have you ever tried a vac pot and what were the results?  Can
you describe what you mean by astringent?
Eddie
On 11/24/06, Maryann & Dave Schellenberg  wrote:
<Snip>

6) From: Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
I do have a vac pot, but haven't brewed with it for over a year.
Seems to me the issue was slow draining. I've read all the messages 
about fixing that, but they worked inconsistantly for me.
Much like the last time I used my Chemex. I stirred and stirred to make 
the foam subside, so all the grounds settled to the bottom, and took 
forever to drain.
When I say 'astringent' I mean a sharp, acidic taste on the front of my 
tongue.
This doesn't occur when I use either Swiss Gold One Cup or Aeropress.
Dave S.
Eddie Dove wrote:
<Snip>

7) From: Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
My suspected problem is not overextraction, but rather very hot water on 
beans not roasted dark enough producing astringency.
The issue I need to correct with grind is that using a metal cone filter 
lets the water through faster than if I used a paper filter. This 
results in weaker coffee.
Dave S.
Steve Hay wrote:
<Snip>

8) From: Eddie Dove
It does sound like the higher acidity / lighter roasts may not be to your
liking ... do you typically like Kenyan, Ethiopian coffees?
Have you tried writing a side by side list ... Like / Don't Like
(astringent)?
Then maybe take a few of the "Don't Like", roast them darker and try again?
Does ALL coffee brewed this way taste astringent to you?
Trying to help ...
Eddie
On 11/24/06, Maryann & Dave Schellenberg  wrote:
<Snip>

9) From: Scott Marquardt
How long does the brewing cycle take? The rate at which the coffee goes
through the grind isn't crucial, IMO, as long as it keeps going through for
a duration sufficient to provide for proper extraction. In fact, one of the
things I love about the polyester I've become obsessive about is that the
fast flow rate allows me to pour more than 1.5 liters through 8 oz. of
coffee (in an oversized cone form factor) ground to extract well in 4
minutes; I can then add water to proper dilution afterward.
I agree that tinkering with the grind is your best first hunch. Also try a
minute of pre-infusion, with water of any temperature at all.
- S
On 11/24/06, Maryann & Dave Schellenberg  wrote:
<Snip>

10) From: Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
Eddie Dove wrote:
<Snip>
Kenyan was my favorite, even before SweetMarias.
Ethiopian, I'm still making up my mind.
Thing is, all of the beans I've bought from SweetMarias in the last 
three years are between tolerable and great in the AeroPress or SGOC.
<Snip>
I tried at least three different beans in the KMB, don't remember what 
they were anymore. Probably all roasted to City+, since that is Tom's 
most common recommendation. All had that astringency when brewed in the 
KMB. I hate to throw out a pot of coffee, so usually make myself finish 
it, thinking, can it really be that bad?
I've only had the TV for a week. Stay tuned.
<Snip>
Thanks
Dave S.

11) From: Eddie Dove
Dave,
Thus far, it does sound as though you have a preference for darker roasts
...
Staying tuned ...
Eddie
On 11/24/06, Maryann & Dave Schellenberg  wrote:
<Snip>

12) From: Sheila Quinn
I need to experiment with my Presto Scandinavian, too. The flavor isn't 
nearly as good as compared to the same coffee made in my press pot. I'm 
using a Swiss Gold filter, but that doesn't really make a difference 
either. I use a pretty fine grind, but I'm going to try even finer - and 
also the pre-infusion for a minute before I start the machine. Hopefully 
one or both will help!
Keep us posted on your results, too!
Sheila
Maryann & Dave Schellenberg wrote:
<Snip>

13) From: Bill Morgan
I have no idea about the TV, but let me pass along one tip that made a HUGE
difference in my KMB:
Stir the pot before pouring a cup.
I eventually noticed that my second cup tasted much, much better than the
first one, and letting the first one sit long enough to cool some didn't
affect the taste much.  Then I read someone's tip here to stir the pot,
because of a kind of layering effect leaving the last part of the extraction
on top.
Did the trick.  I'm sorry that I forgot who to thank, but here's some
belated gratitude.
Bill
On 11/24/06, Maryann & Dave Schellenberg  wrote:
<Snip>

14) From:
" I have no idea about the TV, but let me pass along one tip that made a HUGE difference in my KMB"
stiring can make a great difference but I am not sure if watching a 40" flat panel makes too much taste change.
ginny
---- Bill Morgan  wrote: 
<Snip>

15) From: Brian Kamnetz
Drat! I forgot to stir my KMB again today!
Brian "of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most" Kamnetz
On 11/25/06, Bill Morgan  wrote:
<Snip>

16) From: Sandy Andina
--Apple-Mail-270--647766755
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I always keep the "shutter" on my TV's filter holder closed till half  
the water is out of the tank--then I remove the filter cover, stir,  
open the shutter halfway, re-cover the filter holder and let the  
coffee drip into the carafe. When all the water has passed from the  
tank to the filter, I open the shutter all the way so that the rest  
of the coffee drips more freely into the carafe. I find I don't have  
to stir the brew itself once it's done.
On Nov 25, 2006, at 1:13 PM, Brian Kamnetz wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
--Apple-Mail-270--647766755
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charsetO-8859-1
I always keep the "shutter" on =
my TV's filter holder closed till half the water is out of the =
tank--then I remove the filter cover, stir, open the shutter halfway, =
re-cover the filter holder and let the coffee drip into the carafe. When =
all the water has passed from the tank to the filter, I open the shutter =
all the way so that the rest of the coffee drips more freely into the =
carafe. I find I don't have to stir the brew itself once it's =
done.
On Nov 25, 2006, at 1:13 PM, Brian Kamnetz =
wrote:
Drat! I forgot to stir my KMB again today! =   Brian "of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind = the most" Kamnetz   On = 11/25/06, Bill Morgan <bilmor> wrote: = I have no idea about the = TV, but let me pass along one tip that made a HUGE difference in my = KMB: Stir the pot before pouring a cup. I eventually = noticed that my second cup tasted much, much better than the first one, = and letting the first one sit long enough to cool some didn't affect the = taste much.  Then I read someone's tip here to stir the pot, because = of a kind of layering effect leaving the last part of the extraction on = top. Did the trick.  I'm sorry that I forgot who to thank, but = here's some belated gratitude. Bill = Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-270--647766755--

17) From: Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
Maryann & Dave Schellenberg wrote:
<Snip>
I haven't even tried the Java or Uganda yet, and I have results to report.
El Salvador El Pacamaral roasted to 422F and Panama Gesha roasted to 
422F don't produce the astringent harshness.
I guess I won't know whether the problem is solved by bean variety or 
roast degree until I test the same bean.
But I am relieved that I can use my TV (and probably my KMB) for some 
coffees. I guess I'll have to keep notes as to which ones to avoid.
Dave S.

18) From: Eddie Dove
Sounds like you're getting a handle on this, Dave.  Keep us informed!
Eddie
On 11/26/06, Maryann & Dave Schellenberg  wrote:
<Snip>


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