HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Zip-lock Valve Foil Bags (26 msgs / 512 lines)
1) From: Eddie Dove
Does anyone know if they are also heat sealable?
Eddie

2) From: Jeremy DeFranco
Yes, can be done with an iron and an ironing board.
---Does anyone know if they are also heat sealable?
Eddie

3) From: Eddie Dove
By whatever means ... if I have to buy something, I will.
Eddie
On 11/26/06, Marc Dupuis  wrote:
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4) From: Aaron
Eddie if you are referring to the ones that SM's sells, yes you can heat 
seal them with a sealer and they will work.
I find that they may let in a bit of air after a month or so, they are 
not as sturdy as the original bags but they will hold for a while if you 
do seal them up after evacuating them.
aaron

5) From: True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I have done it and it worked fine for me.
 
 Dennis 
AKA 
FC1(SW) Dennis W. True 
CS/CS-5 
USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN 69) 
FPO AE 09532-2830 
Man of many hats! 
HG/DB and Z&D roasting in the Indian Ocean 
 "On station and on point 159 and counting down..." 
"Direct support for troops on the ground is only a call away in support
of Operation Eagle!"

6) From: Donn Milton
Not only are they heat-sealable, you HAVE to heat-seal them if you want
them to be air tight. The zip lock is not nearly strong enough (just try
closing the zip lock and then sucking air through the valve). But the
Foodsaver sealer (at least my model, a 2-3 year old Professional II)
does not get hot enough to seal the zip-lock foil bags. You need a
"real" heat sealer (see, e.g.,http://www.heatsealers.net/handsealers.html).The smaller ones are not
too expensive--I found a new one on E-Bay last year for about $30-40.
Donn Milton

7) From:
Eddie:
These folks most likely have what you want. Many times they have over runs and you can get a great deal on the "leftovers."
This is the place I get my Hot Jaw sealers.http://www.sorbentsystems.com/mylar.htmlginny
---- Eddie Dove  wrote: 
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8) From: True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
YES 
    Above the zip seal (obviously) I just used the sealer part of my vac
sealer... worked like a champ and if you look there are little notches
to tear off the sealed part when you are trying to get into the coffee
you just sealed up. I have noticed that doing that provides a better
seal than just the zip seal alone. This is great for Gift Giving etc
where the beans will most likely be sealed for 3-5 days before being
opened not to mention I have used a small copier vacuum to pull air out
via the valve. 
 
 
Dennis 
AKA 
FC1(SW) Dennis W. True 
CS/CS-5 
USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN 69) 
FPO AE 09532-2830 
Man of many hats! 
HG/DB and Z&D roasting in the Indian Ocean 
 "On station and on point 158 and counting down..." 
"Direct support for troops on the ground is only a call away in support
of Operation Eagle !" 
 
Heat sealing, do you mean with a Foodsaver type machine?

9) From: Ed Needham
Why are we discussing ways to 'archive' coffee beans?  Do we really need to 
store them for a month before they are opened?  I personally have not found 
any reason to heat seal the zip loc Mylar bags I buy.  I also don't waste my 
money on the cool little one way air valve which really does nothing except 
to keep bags from exploding in air shipping and add a frill for marketing . 
I poke a tiny pinhole in the bag to ship beans to friends via air.
Folks, we are getting carried away with trying to 'play' commercial 
roasters.  I guess that's OK if that's your thing, but there's really not 
much reason for a homeroaster to have to do all this.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

10) From: Eddie Dove
Ed,
Sorry ... my question is because I need to ship homeroast to relatives in
other parts of the country.
Eddie
On 11/27/06, Ed Needham  wrote:
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11) From: Edward Bourgeois
       The valve bags I've found are the best for shipping purposes mostly
cause they are more durable   (more puncture and shock resistant )but also
cause they keep freshness a bit better. Don't want a customer to open a box
of loose spoiled beans. I use my Foodsaver sealer to seal. Ed

12) From: Jeremy DeFranco
Don't underestimate the iron! As I mentioned previosly, you can get great
results w/SM valve bags and an iron. You even have to be carefull not to
keep the iron on the bag too long, for caution of not getting the bag too
hot. Just be sure you turn the steam setting off. If you look carefully at
the top of the SM valve bags, you can see indentations on either side of the
heat-sealable surface. I always seal ABOVE the imaginary line connecting the
2 nicks. This allows the person to open the heat-sealed bag w/out scissors,
as they can simply tear it at either of the nicks. And Ed, w/all due
respect, I wouldn't call it "playing" commercial roaster. My schedule only
allows me to ship fresh roast to some relatives only once a month. I want to
be sure the coffee stays as fresh as possible. The valve bags can work
wonders in this regard. IMO, they keep coffee fresher than the way I keep my
own fresh roasted coffee- in snap seal containers. High quality one-way
valves keep O2 out, and CO2 in.

13) From: miKe mcKoffee
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Heat seals don't mysteriously come open in transit either like can happen
with zip-lock...
 
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee 
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc: http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htm
Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Jeremy DeFranco
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 1:49 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: +Zip-Lock Valve Foil Bags
Don't underestimate the iron! As I mentioned previosly, you can get great
results w/SM valve bags and an iron. You even have to be carefull not to
keep the iron on the bag too long, for caution of not getting the bag too
hot. Just be sure you turn the steam setting off. If you look carefully at
the top of the SM valve bags, you can see indentations on either side of the
heat-sealable surface. I always seal ABOVE the imaginary line connecting the
2 nicks. This allows the person to open the heat-sealed bag w/out scissors,
as they can simply tear it at either of the nicks. And Ed, w/all due
respect, I wouldn't call it "playing" commercial roaster. My schedule only
allows me to ship fresh roast to some relatives only once a month. I want to
be sure the coffee stays as fresh as possible. The valve bags can work
wonders in this regard. IMO, they keep coffee fresher than the way I keep my
own fresh roasted coffee- in snap seal containers. High quality one-way
valves keep O2 out, and CO2 in. 

14) From: Lynne
I LOVE this kind of creative thought! Terrific.
Lynne
On Nov 27, 2006, at 4:48 PM, Jeremy DeFranco wrote:
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15) From: Ed Needham
I add a piece of tape across the top but a heat sealer would definitely keep 
the zip loc from popping open and spilling beans inside your shipping 
container.  Probably the best reason to heat seal.  I heard someone say they 
use a curling iron to heat seal their bags.  Cheap, for sure.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

16) From: Ed Needham
The bags I use are just like the valved bags without a valve.  For the most 
part, the valve is useless to me.  And as I said, if I need to ship to a 
different altitude or via air, I poke a tiny pinhole in the bottom to 
equalize the pressure.  I seriously doubt that it would affect the freshness 
over a couple weeks.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

17) From: Ed Needham
My comment about 'playing commercial' was a bit over the top for this 
discussion.  I apologize.  I'll save it for another discussion though.  We 
do 'occasionally' get carried away with unnecessary things that should only 
concern those with a much larger commercial operation.
With regard to staling and the effect of a one way valve, let me add a bit 
of perspective.
Back in the mid seventies, all loose bean coffee was sold, shipped and 
stored in either bins or 'glassine kraft paper bags with a metal tin-tie at 
the top.  These worked fine for selling coffee beans in my retail 
coffeehouse.  I actually had my bulk beans in bins with a hinged plexiglass 
top.  I've come a long way, but that was pretty much standard in coffee 
sales back then.
Well...
about that same time, these fancy mylar bags hit the scene.  Very nice, very 
attractive.  A real marketing dream.  They really kept coffee fresher, and 
coffee didn't pick up moisture and smells with these as they did with the 
paper bags.  Quickly though, it was discovered that the bags puffed up from 
CO2 outgassing when beans were packaged just after roasting...and... the 
bags would pop open or explode in air shipping due to changes in atmospheric 
pressure.  Fres-Co, a packaging company, designed the one way valve which 
solved both problems.http://www.fresco.com/valves.htmlIt also claimed to let CO2 out but would not let oxygen in.  Now they are 
rich and one way valves are everywhere, and we think we need them to keep 
coffee fresh for less than two weeks.  I think for our purposes, it is a 
waste of money.
My own experiments with coffee beans and freshness have shown me something 
very counterintuitive.
********
Beans stored too long in the open air 'lose flavor' but do not develop the 
rancid smell or taste of beans kept too long in a sealed container.  It 
seems that oxygen or other air gasses inhibit the beans becoming rancid over 
time.
********
My observations do not include vac sealed or frozen beans, but just beans 
kept in an semi-airtight bag or jar versus beans kept in an open container 
or porous bag.
I'm not advocating for storing beans out in the open, but neither tasteless 
coffee or rancid coffee are my preference.
A one-way valve will not prevent beans from becoming rancid over time.  A 
one-way valve will not prevent beans from losing flavor over time.  It will 
allow gasses to escape, but it won't keep your beans a bit fresher than a 
bag with no valve at all.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

18) From: Ed Needham
Since Sweetmarias sells bags, I really shouldn't push someone else's bags, 
but there are a number of sources online.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

19) From: jdwalk6359@earthlink.net
i dont think they would mind when it comes to the bags they say they do it
as a service for people who buy coffee not to sell bags
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bags, 
<Snip>
unsvbscribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings

20) From: Vince Doss
If you want this information, email me offline
On 11/28/06, jdwalk6359  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
At some point between French and fire, it really doesn't matter much
what the "origin character" of the coffee was...
Tom Owens - Sweet Marias

21) From: Vince Doss
...or, as Ed said, there are a number of sources online
On 11/28/06, Vince Doss  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
At some point between French and fire, it really doesn't matter much
what the "origin character" of the coffee was...
Tom Owens - Sweet Marias

22) From: Cameron Forde
Hi Ed,
I'm interested in your observations on coffee beans going stale.  One
contributing factor you didn't mention is light.  Have you noticed any
effect there?  One would expect UV to contribute to free radical
chemistry and rancid flavours.  When you mention air-tight containers
contributing to staling, are these containers keeping the light out,
too?
Thanks,
Cameron
On 11/27/06, Ed Needham  wrote:
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23) From: Ed Needham
My observation was with beans left in my black/clear mylar zip loc bags for 
several weeks vs. beans left in an open bowl on the kitchen counter.  They 
totally lost all quality taste after about a month but were actually more 
palatable than the beans that were in the sealed bag for the same time.  So 
light and air could be keeping the beans from turning rancid...or the fact 
that all of the oils evaporated that would have turned rancid.  Who knows? 
Interesting result though.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

24) From: Aaron
Cameron, you mention UV light.
Not sure if uv is blocked by the plastic or not but it will be blocked 
by glass.
I have a uv meter, specifically tuned for uv'b' but should still work 
for this purpose.  Ill get a few uv bulbs fired up and see if they shine 
through the plastic from the zip lock bags or not and ill get back to 
you if the uv component even makes it through.
aaron

25) From: Cameron Forde
Thanks Ed.  I've noticed similar results and don't know how to account for it.
Aaron, UV is much more strongly blocked by plastic than by glass,
though the ziplock bags are pretty thin and so will probably transmit
a fair amount.  If you want to transmit UV you need to use quartz (not
borosilicate) glass, and so cheaper glass does block some UV.  I'm
sure that you are familiar with the degradation of beer that happens
in clear glass bottles.
Cameron
On 11/29/06, Aaron  wrote:
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26) From: Justin Marquez
On 11/29/06, Cameron Forde  wrote:
<Snip>
heh. Not too many of us here keep it around long enough to gauge beer
degredation due to UV light exposure in clear bottles....
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)


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