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Topic: Roast profiling on a Z&D (9 msgs / 239 lines)
1) From: Vicki Smith
I'd be interested in knowing what, if any advantage, there might be in 
getting first crack over in a more compressed time frame. I can 
understand that it might lead to a more even roast, if all of the beans 
end up finishing first crack more or less at the same time, but I do 
wonder if the beans actually start out evenly enough matched as to 
moisture level that this would be a real advantage. I also wonder if 
there is a trade off having to do with expansion, especially if the 
beans are reaching first crack faster.
I'm not an expert, and I am not explaining this very well.
I guess what I am asking is if in a given bunch of greens, the beans 
start out so much the same that they *should* all reach first crack at 
just about the same time or if it is possible that we could bring them 
all to the point of first crack, but find that some of them are sorta 
not as, urmmm, done in the middle as they should be when we do 
that--especially when we are speeding up the time to the beginning of 
the crack.
I know when I started roasting in my bread machine (vs the IR2) I was 
shocked to find that first crack was more of a process than it was an 
event--as is second (not that I see much of second for most of the beans 
I roast). I know that some of this is a function of the quantity of 
beans, but I also wonder if something else is, or should be, going on.
vicki (the curious)
True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69) wrote:

2) From: raymanowen
This is a plan you'll regret:
"...what I am asking is if in a given bunch of greens, the beans start out
so much the same that they *should* all reach first crack at just about the
same time..."
I once told my daughters I was going to pop some corn. I told 'em I figured
out how to make sure it all popped at the same time...
On 12/3/06, Vicki Smith  wrote:
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976

3) From: Vicki Smith
We may be on the same page with this Ray, but as I almost never 
understand anything you say, I can't be sure ;).
raymanowen wrote:

4) From: Ken Mary
Your bread machine can hold more beans, and it likely has less efficient
mixing than the IR2. Both may contribute to a longer first crack. A shorter
time to first will result in more water retained in the beans and more pops.
Maybe the largest influence is the bean prep. As you know, some lots are
single estate and others pooled from many estates. There is a distribution
of sizes and ripeness which affect the way the bean absorbs heat.
You may prefer your bread machine results over the IR2 due to this wider
distribution of roast level, a melange effect.
I remember someone on this list I believe who deliberately introduced cold
beans to a roast in progress. The intention may have been to slow the

5) From: LInda Reese
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Roast profiling on a Z&DHey Dennis, I do use a heavy dictionary on my =
Z&D, removing it when the machine enters the cool-down cycle.  First =
crack for my Z&D/book combo usually starts at about 12-13 minutes into =
the roast. I'll have to try your method and see what happens. Thanks for =
the tip! Linda

6) From: True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Ok who has figured out how to work a bit of a profile into a Z&D roast?
I just did!
	I did 1# of bug yestersdday so with same amounts of the same
bean 4 times in a row I was able to dicsover a little trick that some
one on the list had mentioned to help with the heat loss issue was to
put a heavy book on the lid. Well in keeping along that train of thought
I started putting a 5# bag of beans on top of the roaster during a roast
I found I got to First Crack almost a full 2 min faster ... got me
thinking if I keep it on the roaster getting to First crack then pull it
off and add a min to my roast time I can extend the time between First
Crack and the end of the roast usually just as second crack is getting
ready to start 
One more benefit I have found with adding weight to get a better seal it
is that First Crack is much more condensed (with out it it takes appx
1:30 min to get from beginning to end with the weight it takes just
uinder a min.)
Just something I found any thoughts from the experts? Has any one else
tried this? 
FC1(SW) Dennis W. True
USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN 69)
FPO AE 09532-2830
Man of many hats!
HG/DB and Z&D roasting in the Indian Ocean
 "On station and on point 151 and counting down..." 
"Direct support for troops on the ground is only a call away in support
of Operation Eagle!"

7) From: Vicki Smith
Then there is the issue of how farking loud the IR2 is.
I've been surprised at how even (if the visual can be trusted) my SO 
bread machine roasts really are, especially in the 1-1.5 pound range. 
Yesterday, I was roasting a blend (moka kadir), and the wide spread of 
times for first crack was hugely noticeable.
I've never roasted in a Z&D, but I know that just like every other 
method, it has quirks and things that folks want to get around that are 
sorta built into the design. I'm assuming that for this machine, getting 
to 1st faster, and shortening the time 1st takes to complete, has some 
advantages, and that is why Dennis is so pleased.
Ken Mary wrote:

8) From: David Schooley
The iRoast is difficult because it is hard to tell exactly when first  
crack begins and ends. It is easy to make out some of the pops, but  
others get lost in the noise. I think you risk grassy beans if you  
try to go through first too quickly. The best City, City+ roasts in  
my iRoast were when I slowed things down. Going fast may make more  
sense if your ultimate goal is second crack.
I did a lot of profiling with my iRoast. Differences in bean  
expansion were determined by the more by the origin of the bean than  
whether or not I went through first crack quickly or slowly, assuming  
I actually made it all the way through first crack. I have not  
noticed much difference in bean expansion between my iRoast and my  
On Dec 3, 2006, at 11:05 PM, Vicki Smith wrote:

9) From: LInda Reese
Vicky, part of the issue with the Z&D as a roaster is the fear of going too 
slowly into 1st crack and/or not reaching a high enough temperature and 
ending up with 'baked' not roasted beans. Weighing down the top does seem to 
create better heat retention. With the weight, the roast seems to move 
through the process at a slightly higher temperature. I think Dennis' theory 
is that by removing the weight for a minute or two after reaching 1st crack, 
some heat will escape thus slowing and extending the roast as it moves 
toward 2nd crack. Then add the weight again to finish. As nutty as it may 
sound, using the weight on the Z&D, my roasts get to 1st crack in about 
12-13 minutes. The final proof? I roasted a batch of the somewhat elusive 
Harar Horse Lot 30 and got overwhelming blueberry even as the roast was 
finishing! However, in the over-all scheme of things, I do believe that your 
bread machine/heat gun method is far more straight forward! As to whether or 
not all of the beans should or could reach first crack at about the same 
time, I rarely hear more than 5-6 cracks of first with any roast. Linda 
(hopefully not just adding to the confusion!)

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