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Topic: OT- Gelato (15 msgs / 350 lines)
1) From: Jeremy DeFranco
Thanks everyone so far for the responses! I just found some info on the site
for The Italian Institute for Advanced Culinary and Pastry
Arts.
Check this quote out. It's in the context of explaining a Gelato making
course that they offer:
     ...The benefits and restrictions for the production, display, sale and
distribution for the five main types of gelato:
      -Cream Based
      -Egg Based
      -Fruit and Cream Based
      -Sorbets
      -Special Bases...
So this must mean that there are more than one way to produce a gelato, and
one of these methods does involve eggs (later down the page it states that
in fact egg-based gelatos are the most popular style).
So, this means that possibly, there are egg yolks in gelato. And, from a
gelato site , I deduce that true
gelatos are actually HEAVIER, and contain LESS air than ice cream. So this
means all that work I spent trying to incorporate air into egg whites might
have been flawed. Also, check this site
out,
which confirms that Gelato does contain much less air. I also just read an
excerpt from Bo Friberg in his book "The Professional Pastry Chef" that,
indeed, gelato is made with 1. less butterfat, and 2. more eggs, to result
in a 3. more dense product. So it, in fact looks like a good gelato recipe
should have lots of egg YOLKS, or whole eggs at the very least. That recipe
that John put up looks to be on the right track. I am always weary, though
to use a recipe on the internet, but at this point it looks like the best
shot.

2) From: bb
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
if you want a recipe from the Bo Friberg book let me know.  I have it.  
From: Jeremy DeFranco [mailto:jeremy.defranco] 
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 1:16 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: +OT- Gelato
Thanks everyone so far for the responses! I just found some info on the site
for The Italian
 Institute for
Advanced Culinary and Pastry Arts. Check this quote out. It's in the context
of explaining a Gelato making course that they offer: 
     ...The benefits and restrictions for the production, display, sale and
distribution for the five main types of gelato:                
      -Cream Based
      -Egg Based
      -Fruit and Cream Based 
      -Sorbets
      -Special Bases...
So this must mean that there are more than one way to produce a gelato, and
one of these methods does involve eggs (later down the page it states that
in fact egg-based gelatos are the most popular style). 
So, this means that possibly, there are egg yolks in gelato. And, from a
gelato site  , I deduce that true
gelatos are actually HEAVIER, and contain LESS air than ice cream. So this
means all that work I spent trying to incorporate air into egg whites might
have been flawed. Also, check this
 site out, which confirms that Gelato does contain much
less air. I also just read an excerpt from Bo Friberg in his book "The
Professional Pastry Chef" that, indeed, gelato is made with 1. less
butterfat, and 2. more eggs, to result in a 3. more dense product. So it, in
fact looks like a good gelato recipe should have lots of egg YOLKS, or whole
eggs at the very least. That recipe that John put up looks to be on the
right track. I am always weary, though to use a recipe on the internet, but
at this point it looks like the best shot. 

3) From: Jeremy DeFranco
Right on. It looks like the Italians use whole milk or a combination of
whole milk and cream to make gelato. This
sitestates thier gelato is 7%
butterfat. Well, Whole milk is 4% butterfat, and
according to this website, half-and-half is 10.5% butterfat. So, to get 7%
butterfat, you could mix (if my calculations are correct) any chosen amount
of whole milk with half that amount of half-and-half, and then add sugar and
eggs, and create a custard over heat (maybe make the custard w/the whole
milk, and then add in the half-and-half after that). Then cool mixture, and
freeze in ice-cream machine. But, how many egg yolks, I wander? If Gelato is
supposed to be heavy, then it must be a good amount. But then again, when I
walk into a gelato store, there are white colored gelatos on display, so
they must not be using too many yolks.... Any gelato artisans on this list
that can provide a recipe w/traditional proportions??? : )
---Oh... gelato! I love it. I have to get some every time I'm in Boston's
North End (our 'Little Italy').
That's one thing I never made - however, I do know that it's not
supposed to be cream that's used - the fat ratio is much lower. But
I've never made any.
I'm sure there's someone here who has, though.

4) From: Jeremy DeFranco
Sorry, put up wrong site.
THISsite
claims their gelato is 7% butterfat
----This site states thier gelato is 7% butterfat.

5) From: Jeremy DeFranco
Thanks for the offer. I actually have a copy, myself, though, so I won't
take the offer. Unfortunately, the author failed to put in a recipe for
gelato! Must have been written before this newly popular culinary phenomenon
took hold on the culinary scene outside of Italy..
---if you want a recipe from the Bo Friberg book let me know.  I have it.

6) From: Leo Zick
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
its different everywhere throughout italy.. if i remember correctly, gelato
in sicily is even thicker!  (and better imo)  thicker doesnt mean more
cream, i think its less actually, but more intense fruit (or other additive)
flavors  
From: Jeremy DeFranco [mailto:jeremy.defranco] 
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 2:35 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: +OT- Gelato
Right on. It looks like the Italians use whole milk or a combination of
whole milk and cream to make gelato. This site
  states thier gelato is 7%
butterfat. Well, Whole milk is 4% butterfat, and according to this website,
half-and-half is 10.5% butterfat. So, to get 7% butterfat, you could mix (if
my calculations are correct) any chosen amount of whole milk with half that
amount of half-and-half, and then add sugar and eggs, and create a custard
over heat (maybe make the custard w/the whole milk, and then add in the
half-and-half after that). Then cool mixture, and freeze in ice-cream
machine. But, how many egg yolks, I wander? If Gelato is supposed to be
heavy, then it must be a good amount. But then again, when I walk into a
gelato store, there are white colored gelatos on display, so they must not
be using too many yolks.... Any gelato artisans on this list that can
provide a recipe w/traditional proportions??? : ) 
---Oh... gelato! I love it. I have to get some every time I'm in Boston's 
North End (our 'Little Italy').
That's one thing I never made - however, I do know that it's not 
supposed to be cream that's used - the fat ratio is much lower. But 
I've never made any.
I'm sure there's someone here who has, though.

7) From: Lynne
Jeremy, you understand that you could get as many definitions (and 
recipes) for real, Italian gelato (make sure it's REAL) as we, here on 
this list, give for coffee! There are so many regions - each little 
town (especially the Nanna - or Nonnas) each have THEIR own way of 
making their food, and each are convinced theirs is the ONLY way. : > )
I know that Italy has clearly defined laws regarding the making of 
pizza - I wonder if they do the same for gelato.
To those of us who are Italian (yes, I'm half, and second generation, 
but still Italian) food is a serious issue!!
Lynne
On Dec 7, 2006, at 2:39 PM, Jeremy DeFranco wrote:
<Snip>

8) From: Lynne
I found a couple of interesting links. I have, by the way, found some 
of my absolute favorite recipes on the internet - including a couple of 
my mother's long lost cookie recipes - AND discovered the original 
booklet cover from one - it was cool to be able to print up the recipe 
and the circa 1960 booklet cover to go with it. But I digress..
One site claims that authentic gelato has cornstarch! Well, I came 
across this recipe (wishing I could try it out)http://www.bulgarinigelato.com/news.htmlIt's interesting that both Italy and the US use pre-made bases now.">http://tinyurl.com/y5qt3oThis blog describes the process of making gelato (in Italy):http://www.bulgarinigelato.com/news.htmlIt's interesting that both Italy and the US use pre-made bases now.
And this site has lots of good info about Sicily (only the best cooks.. 
ahem), a good bit of more conflicting info (and the history, which I 
find interesting) about gelato, with a strange green blob that is 
supposed (I believe) to be gelato.http://www.bestofsicily.com/mag/art205.htmNow I want gelato!!
L.
On Dec 7, 2006, at 2:34 PM, Jeremy DeFranco wrote:
<Snip>

9) From: Lynne
Yes, same here. When you find a good recipe (and I'm sure you will), 
please pass it on to the rest of us.
At one time I was tempted to buy a gelato machine. Like an ice cream 
maker, but dedicated to gelato.
I need a trip to the North End now, even if it is December. (They may 
not even sell gelato this time of year...)
Lynne
On Dec 7, 2006, at 4:01 PM, Jeremy DeFranco wrote:
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to me 
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)
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10) From: Jeremy DeFranco
Lynne,
     You're probably right. FWIW It doesn't make a difference to me whether
it's "real" or not, so long as the recipe produces that silky texture that
distinguishes gelato as something way different than ice cream, without use
of chemical additives, of course!
---Jeremy, you understand that you could get as many definitions (and
recipes) for real, Italian gelato (make sure it's REAL) as we, here on
this list, give for coffee! There are so many regions - each little
town (especially the Nanna - or Nonnas) each have THEIR own way of
making their food, and each are convinced theirs is the ONLY way. : > )
I know that Italy has clearly defined laws regarding the making of
pizza - I wonder if they do the same for gelato.
To those of us who are Italian (yes, I'm half, and second generation,
but still Italian) food is a serious issue!!
Lynne

11) From: Jeremy DeFranco
Thanks for the sites! Yikes, Cornstarch! Guess you never know till you try
it, might work...
---One site claims that authentic gelato has cornstarch! Well, I came
across this recipe (wishing I could try it out)http://tinyurl.com/y5qt3o

12) From: Jeremy DeFranco
Found a good Gelato recipe
site.
I think I will try my hand first with the Gelato al Caffee Recipe First
(without the instant espresso powder, of course)! I may end up looking into
a few books. I'll let the list know when I find a keeper!

13) From: Lynne
Yeah, it sounds more like pudding - but who knows - it might work?
L.
On Dec 7, 2006, at 4:09 PM, Jeremy DeFranco wrote:
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14) From: raymanowen
Try Bailey's Irish Cream in your Irish Coffee Dennis, if it pleases you.
(I never had a beer before I went to Clark Air Base in the Philippines!)
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
Mmm... Masarap- Ayos na ang Kasunod!

15) From: True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)
As most on the list know I was just in Italy for 4 days in October Wow
what a treat having a Gelato while having the Vatican in the
distance....
The gelato was smoother and better than any I've ever had before...
Rumor is we are trying to stop by Ireland on our way home... Wonder if
they will appreceate my coffee....hmmmm
Dennis
AKA
FC1(SW) Dennis W. True
CS/CS-5
USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN 69)
FPO AE 09532-2830
Man of many hats!
HG/DB and Z&D roasting in the Indian Ocean
 "On station and on point 147 and counting down..." 
"Direct support for troops on the ground is only a call away in support
of Operation Eagle!"
ias.com
Subject: Re: +OT- Gelato
Jeremy, you understand that you could get as many definitions (and 
recipes) for real, Italian gelato (make sure it's REAL) as we, here on 
this list, give for coffee! There are so many regions - each little 
town (especially the Nanna - or Nonnas) each have THEIR own way of 
making their food, and each are convinced theirs is the ONLY way. : > )
I know that Italy has clearly defined laws regarding the making of 
pizza - I wonder if they do the same for gelato.
To those of us who are Italian (yes, I'm half, and second generation, 
but still Italian) food is a serious issue!!
Lynne
On Dec 7, 2006, at 2:39 PM, Jeremy DeFranco wrote:
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