HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Poppery I (or II) Profile (18 msgs / 462 lines)
1) From: Chad
Anyone have an UN-Modded Poppery I (or-II) profile they would like to 
share? Please also include the weight of beans.
Thanks in advance!
Chad
Running Springs, CA

2) From: Scott Marquardt
How do you profile with an unmodded poppery?
That started out as a rhetorical question, but a moment's thought has me
wondering -- how many poppery folk have tweaked their use of unmodded
machines to the point where they actually do get some control over this?
Good grief.
- Scott
On 12/11/06, Chad  wrote:
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3) From: Bill Morgan
The closest I could come up with was switching from a straight connection to
a 100-ft extension cord at first crack.  That got me about a 4-5V drop and
slowed things down just a bit.  (Running through the extension all the way
didn't get me enough heat in cooler ambient temperatures.)  I ran like that
for over a year 'til I found my PIs, modded them, and learned what actual
control could do.
Bill
On 12/11/06, Scott Marquardt  wrote:
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4) From: Tom Ogren
Scott wrote, "how many poppery folk have tweaked their use of unmodded
machines to the point where they actually do get some control"
I'd be interested to know too. Chad, it seems to me that profiling is next
to impossible with an unmodded popper. Without the ability to dial the
heating element or fan speed up and down, you will be at the mercy of bean
mass, line voltage, and ambient temperature. You can certainly control bean
mass, but the other two factors fluctuate unpredictably, making repetition
of a favorite roast practically impossible. With a variac you can stabilize
line voltage and establish SOME control there, but controlling the current
with a variac will affect both fan speed and heating element, which is less
effective than if you can control one or the other...plus, variacs are
expensive.
TO in VA
On 12/11/06, Chad  wrote:
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5) From: Chad
I'm just not sure I want to mod the poppery and put that amount of work 
into it with the small batches it produces. I do know that several 
things can dramatically affect the roast time such as bean mass, machine 
cool down between roasts, re-cycling the hot air to the machine- all 
three can more than double the speed of the roast. Also I know extension 
chords are an option. I've done my own experiments, but the size of the 
roast (bean mass) seems to always suffer (too small).
Chad
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 6:35am, Tom Ogren wrote:
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6) From: Brett Mason
I fillup my unmodded Poppery I to just under the line where the metal
meets the plastic...
I plug it in... no ext. cord.
I make sure the beans are moving...
I turn off the switch at second crack, and dump the beans and cool them...
That's kind of it for me...
Brett
On 12/11/06, Chad  wrote:
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-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

7) From: Bill Morgan
That's exactly why I grabbed the PIs when I had the chance.  With those,
split wired, fan boosted, and extra air intakes drilled at the base, I'm
getting well-profiled 15 min 225g roasts.  (No variac or other real heater
control, still the extension cord switch.)
I started to play with SC/TO in search of larger than 80g batches, but
shelved that when the right poppers showed up.
I don't know any way to get larger batches or profile control with an
unmodified popper.
Have fun,
Bill
On 12/11/06, Chad  wrote:
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8) From: Julie Tieszen
Amen brother! That's how I do it. I stir it quite a bit until 1st crack the=
n I let it go until 2nd. 
I use an extension cord only because my popp=
ery doesn't reach the outlet. :)
Julie
----- Original Message ---=
-
From: Brett Mason 
To: homeroast=
as.com
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 9:53:57 AM
Subject: Re: +Poppery=
 I (or II) Profile
I fillup my unmodded Poppery I to just under the li=
ne where the metal
meets the plastic...
I plug it in... no ext. cord=
.
I make sure the beans are moving...
I turn off the switch at se=
cond crack, and dump the beans and cool them...
That's kind of it for =
me...
Brett
On 12/11/06, Chad  wrote:
> I'm just not=
 sure I want to mod the poppery and put that amount of work
> into it wit=
h the small batches it produces. I do know that several
> things can dram=
atically affect the roast time such as bean mass, machine
> cool down bet=
ween roasts, re-cycling the hot air to the machine- all
> three can more =
than double the speed of the roast. Also I know extension
> chords are an=
 option. I've done my own experiments, but the size of the
> roast (bean =
mass) seems to always suffer (too small).
> Chad
>
>
> On Mon, 11 D=
ec 2006 6:35am, Tom Ogren wrote:
> > Scott wrote, "how many poppery folk =
have tweaked their use of unmodded
> > machines to the point where they a=
ctually do get some control"
> > I'd be interested to know too. Chad, it =
seems to me that profiling is
> > next to impossible with an unmodded pop=
per. Without the ability to dial
> > the heating element or fan speed up =
and down, you will be at the mercy
> > of bean mass, line voltage, and am=
bient temperature. You can certainly
> > control bean mass, but the other=
 two factors fluctuate unpredictably,
> > making repetition of a favorite=
 roast practically impossible. With a
> > variac you can stabilize line v=
oltage and establish SOME control there,
> > but controlling the current =
with a variac will affect both fan speed
> > and heating element, which i=
s less effective than if you can control
> > one or the other...plus, var=
iacs are expensive.
> >
> > TO in VA
> >
> > On 12/11/06, Chad  wrote:
> >
> >> Anyone have an UN-Modd=
ed Poppery I (or-II) profile they would like to
> >> share? Please also i=
nclude the weight of beans.
> >> Thanks in advance!
> >> Chad
> >> Ru=
nning Springs, CA
> >>
=
<Snip>
tinfo/homeroast
> >> http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homer=oast]
> >> To change your personal list settings (digest options, vacatio=
ns,
> >> unsvbscribes) go to
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ast mailing list
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vbscribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings=>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com=
homeroast mailing list
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rsonal list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http:/=
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9) From: Jared Andersson
I'll bite.  I roast with four unmodified WBI poppers.  Two at a time.  One
of the best thing one can do to change the roast time with this "unmodified"
set up is to change the volume of beans you roast.  Contrary to what one
might initially think fewer beans equals slightly longer roast times.  I
would guess that with more beans more heat is trapped with the beans.  I
rarely weigh my beans with this method.  I just turn on the popper and start
pouring in the beans until the swirling beans start to slow down.  This
method is fool proof enough that four of my roasts almost always equals one
pound of beans.   For a popper I like the pour in method rather than a
weight or volume measure because poppers vary in size and strength, ever
homes voltage is different and bean volume and mass vary.  Ambient
temperature can also effect your roast times for better or worse.
I have recently been using a delayed cooling method to lengthen my roasts.
I will pour the beans into a mesh strainer before the roast is done and let
it coast up to the desired roast level.  I then cool the beans when it is
apparent no more roasting is happening.  Lastly,  I will sometimes use a
mixture of roasts.  Since I am doing four different roasts (with two at a
time this only takes about twenty minutes)  I can do each one at a different
roast level (on beans that roast well at different roast levels of course).
So to review I use bean volume, ambient temp, cooling delay and varied roast
degree to manipulate my roast profile.  Jared
On 12/11/06, Chad  wrote:
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10) From: Brett Mason
It'sa like beer - varies only with the pour...
Brett
On 12/11/06, Jared Andersson  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

11) From: b cook
I cut out the bottom of my Poppery 1 for better airflow.  Then I plug it
into a 100ft extension cord and set it on top of a Honeywell fan that can
rotated to point straight up ($9.99 from Wal-Mart).  The amount of beans
used depends on ambient temperature.  When it gets into the 50's and 60's I
do about 125grams of beans.  40's and lower I go up to 150grams.  I get a
nice 13 minute or so roast to city+.  I got very good at roasting in this
method but it's all moot now as I've switched to an SC/CO for bigger batch
sizes.
bc
On 12/11/06, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>

12) From: Pat Murray
Chad,
I roast with a split wired dual variac Poppery1.  It gives me total control 
over the roast.  I roast a heaping one cup measure of greens and wind up 
with a full pint mason jar after roasting.  I have roasted successfully in 
ambient temperatures from 18F to 100F.
I had tried the extension cord trick and had no luck at slowing the roast to 
more than 4 minutes even using over 300 feet of extension cord. Now I roast 
anywhere from 9 minutes to 16 minutes, depending on the bean variety and 
style of roast I am looking for. I got the smaller variac for the fan (2 
Amp) on eBay for less than $15 plus shipping, The one for the heater came 
new from SM.
It's been great roasting relatively smaller batches, as I roast about 6-7 
different beans each week and have learned which I like and which I don't.
My wife has bought me an RK drum for christmas (I think) but she won't let 
me see it.  So, soon I will be embarking on a whole new roasting journey, 
ain't it great! In 20F weather it will be nice to roast a couple of pounds 
at a time and not be standing it the cold for too long.
Pat

13) From: Gary Townsend
On 12/11/06, Scott Marquardt  wrote:
<Snip>
OK Scott,
I'll bite.
 Since I started collecting electric hot air poppers, I've bought around 3
dozen or so via thrift shops, all at $5. or less. This includes 6 original
P1's and the 5 1400 watt Popcorn Pumpers, that I donated to Doug Straight
for his popper conversion program.  ;-)
I slightly modify a 1250 watt Popcorn Pumper by removing the bi-metallic
piece and using a 1/8" flat tip screw driver to widen the slots. By simply
weighing the beans, and adjusting the amount of beans, I can easily stretch
the roast length to 12 minutes. No other electrical gizmo's are needed. Just
a good digital scale, and a log book. Which is what I learned awhile back
from Ed Spiegal. Just figure out what your individual popper can handle,
then make adjustments on subsequent roasts to your individual tastes.
Here's how I roast: Garybt3 Roasting Coffee at
Home
just click on the link : This is how I do it, on the web page, and it will
give you step by step on how to do it.
I think that it's the easiest way to turn a common Poppery 2 type machine
into a better coffee roaster.
I've got to say that Doug's modded machine is hands down, a truly remarkable
coffee roaster. I've been roasting 170 gram batches with it, and the
controls are perfect. I can roast 200 grams with it, no problem, thanks to
the 160 volt fan booster, and the variable heater controller.
The nice thing about it is the use of a digital thermometer and K type
connector. This allows you to monitor the roast  temperature during the
progression of the roast, and make changes as you wish. Sure, it's not as
precise as a PID setup, but that's really not a problem if you are a hands
on type person, anyway.
I target certain temps and times and I've been using a typical pattern, for
example; I start my timer at 100F, ramp up to 290F for 3 minutes. I then
increase heat to reach 350F, then slowly raise the temp from 350 to 375F for
another 7 minutes. Then I'll  increase the heat  again, using a combination
of lowering the fan speed to prevent the beans from spouting wildly, but
still be fluid enough to move freely ( if that makes any sense ;-), and also
manipulating the heater control. I'll take it to 425F, and jot down the temp
at the start of 1st crack, then I can take it to 2nd crack, jot down the
temp and time, then use that information on my next roast. Why the long
stretch from 350 to 375??? I'm trying to enhance the sweetness of the bean
by caramelizing most of the sugars. Something that I've been focusing on
over the last couple of weeks. I'm getting good results in the cup, and
that's the part that I'm always interested in.
Not bad for a $5. Popcorn popper and some great enhancements. I don't know
how many people  you roast for, but I do around 2 to 3 #'s a week, I don't
find the time that I spend roasting to be demanding at all. In fact, I enjoy
it, just me, the beans and the roaster...
Gary
-- 
Albert Einstein - "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent
one

14) From: Chad
How long do you rest betweeen roasts to let the popper cool off? I 
noticed with only a few minutes rest in my PI that the 2nd roast can be 
up to twice as quick (yikes!).
Chad
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 6:58pm, Gary Townsend wrote:
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15) From: Chad
Good info!! Thanks. I'm going to give this a shot. Sounds like maybe the 
fan air keeps the popperr running cooler. This will also surely help 
cool the popper quickly between roasts. How long do you typically rest 
between roasts?
Chad
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 3:35pm, b cook wrote:
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16) From: Tom Ogren
Speaking as a winner of Doug Strait's September tradition offering (four
months use of one of his nicely modified Popcorn Pumpers), I am now a
convert and a dyed-in-the-wool control freak. I have to echo Gary's
sentiments about the serious appeal of Doug's machine. My coffee has
improved dramatically. I can repeat my roasts precisely, alter them slightly
or radically, regardless of outside temperature, line voltage, or bean mass.
Absolute control.
A description of Doug's modded popper: In addition to the standard on/off
rocker switch, Doug's popper has two dials (one for heat output, the other
for fan output) and also a toggle switch which enables instant switching
between 'heat+fan" and 'fan-only' mode. Fan-only allows rapid cooling of the
beans in the popper and also brings the popper's temperature back down after
a roast. Doug's fan really roars when called upon. I don't know what Doug
did to this thing (I would be curious to see some sort of schematic), but
the device has range! The two small dials and the toggle switch are
installed neatly in the front panel above the power switch of the Popcorn
Pumper. The setup is replete with the traditional soupcan chimney, decked
out in shiny silver insulating material. The can's height is extended at the
top using about three inches of a heat-tolerant, white mesh material. Bright
yellow bands at the top and bottom of the can appear to hold the insulation
and extension mesh firmly in place and also complement the Pumper's stock
color scheme and give it a real finished look. Nice!
Perhaps the most important part of this rig is the temperature-reading gear.
A sheathed temperature probe (sturdy) is installed into the side of the
popper and comes into the roast chamber at a downward angle. The
high-quality digital thermometer plugs into the probe on the side of the
popper and reports real-time readings in 1 degree increments. The infinite
control of this roaster has been a real learning tool for me.
For example, I've learned what a difference can be made by slowly ramping up
to first crack. With my Poppery 2 (unmodified) I routinely hit first crack
in two and a half minutes. Don't get me wrong, I made some great coffees
with the Poppery 2, but I usually found that I had to go all the way into
second crack to get results I liked. Otherwise I would have a grainy, grassy
flavor resulting from underroasted bean innards.
With control though, I can bring the beans along slowly and ease into first
crack at six, seven, eight (whatever!) minutes, with beans roasted uniformly
throughout. I usually finish well before second crack, and the result is a
cup that (I suspect) is more akin to Tom Owen's descriptions than I was able
to achieve with my Poppery2. Generally speaking, I now find the most
compelling flavors in the City+ roast range.
Interestingly there are a couple (not most, but a couple...) of coffees I
found I preferred with the really fast roasts I would get with my Poppery 2.
For those coffees I can still roast fast with the modded Popcorn Pumper, but
I can also duplicate a "perfect" roast if I want, since I am recording
temperatures along the way. I just take a look back at my notes and aim for
target temps. and times to hit along the way. I can be sure that I will
approximate the same flavor I liked the first time. There is something to be
said for that. I will also say, though, that there is something charming
about stumbling upon that perfect roast with the unmodded popper. It's a
stoke of good luck...and that is always nice; Ultimately though, I've really
enjoyed the ability to dial in those roast flavors.
Many, many thanks to Doug Strait for such a nice Tradition offering! And now
Les and Mike are mentoring in the ways of espresso. Nice! I'd sign up to win
their generous offering if I weren't using a Gaggia Espresso and a Zass knee
mill already. Actually I find myself using the Kitchen Aid Proline (thanks
Eddie!) with good results (such as I understand what "good results"
are...I'm an espresso newb myself...) In reference to the Proline's reputed
lack of espresso suitability, I am befuddled. I absolutely can clog the
Gaggia with the Proline. It's dust production is practically nil too, which
is perfect for me as a French Press brewer (primarily).
TO in VA
and now a three + month user of said masterpiece,
On 12/11/06, Gary Townsend < garybt3> wrote:
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17) From: Gary Townsend
Chad,
I built 5 of the 1250 watt Pumpers & I rotate them, starting with a fresh
(cool) popper. In the summer months I use a standard fan and a big
perforated aluminum pizza pan to cool my roasts and roasters at the same
time. In the winter months I don't need the fan.
 If I only had 1 popper, I'd let it cool down about 15 to 20 minutes between
roasts. If I used a standard room fan 5 to 10 minutes would be enough time.
I also have a shop vac bean cooler, but the Noise is pretty deafening to my
ears! I used a square shaped cat food bucket and a perforated stainless
steel bowl that I RTV'ed to the lid. I cut the hole using a Dremmel tool,
and I can remove the lid easily enough for cleaning.
On 12/12/06, Chad  wrote:
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18) From: b cook
When I was still using that method before my SC/CO I would usually just
roast one batch at a time every few days.  It probably wouldn't need that
long with the fan blowing.  I remove it from the fan though because I use
the same fan with a collander sitting on it for cooling.
I have to lower the batches a little more in the heat of the Texas summer.
bc
On 12/12/06, Chad  wrote:
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