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Topic: Way OT: Help me fix my oven for Christmas (16 msgs / 597 lines)
1) From: Derek Bradford
Hi All,
My oven has decided to act up, just before Christmas.  I don't
particularly want to buy a new one, and I'm sure this can be coaxed
into a little longer life.  Here's the background:
It's a glorified toaster oven.  It calls itself a convection oven
(it's the 6-slice on this page:http://www.rivalproducts.com/productcat.aspx?cid7),and I've been
using it daily for bread and pizza and everything else for about 18
months.
Recently, the top element has started coming on during the normal bake
cycle, and it consequently burns everything.
I'd like to bypass the top element, leaving only the bottom element
for baking.  Ideally, I'd like to put the top element on a toggle
switch so I can use it when I need it (preheating, broiling, etc).
I've posted a labeled picture of the innards here:http://picasaweb.google.com/derekbradford/OvenInnardsPlease...my Christmas chicken (no turkeys in Korea) rather depends on
this oven.  Without it, I'm making fresh ravioli, but I'd rather have
the chicken.  Any suggestions/guidance?  Feel free to email me offlist
with suggestions.  I've never fixed an oven before, and I'm not sure
what role the elements play in the circuitry.
Thanks,
--Derek
-- http://www.novernae.comHome of the Wandering Sloth

2) From: raymanowen
Derek, the oven already puts power through three sets of switch contacts to
get to the heater elements: the timer, function and thermostat. The
"thermostat" looks like a % timer, and should be the only one to interrupt
heater current flow during operation.
The function switch selects between the upper and lower or both elements and
is malfunctioning. I'll bet it feels funny as you turn it. Its contacts are
fouled up. If you add another switch, it's just more contacts to fail. You
should not add failure points.
The function switch may be SNAFU. It's fed power by the thermostat. It can't
feed power to the upper element continuously. It can only parallel the two
elements and run them simultaneously.
I know it's riveted together, but you can drill the ends off the rivets and
fix the switch. Otherwise, you're going to find a replacement? Not. The
switch can be reassembled with blind (Pop) rivets. No source? We have ways
here. Measure and squawk.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
"The indisputable truth is that no coffee is fresh if it isn't fresh
roasted." - - Martin Diedrich

3) From: Derek Bradford
Thanks for the reply, RayO.
You're quite right...the switch does have a nasty feeling when it
switches between toast and bake.  There's an arcing sound as it makes
contact that tells me nothing nice is happening there.  I didn't
notice it before this morning because we rarely switch it from bake.
But doing so this morning I noticed the nasties, so you're probably
quite right.
What do you think's involved in repairing the switch?  I can pop it
open and see what it looks like in side and post some more photos.  I
don't know much about rewiring/repairing this kind of switch...is it
something that I'll just have to fix with a multi-function toggle from
the hardware store, or a few single toggles, or is the switch itself
generally fixable?  I have a fairly adequate toolbox, including my
trusty pop riveter.  The source problem is just working on the switch
itself.
Cheers,
--Derek, who's just realized his shortbreads are also hanging in the balance.
On 12/22/06, raymanowen  wrote:
<Snip>
-- http://www.novernae.comHome of the Wandering Sloth

4) From: raymanowen
The switch in my Mazzer grinder just handles power to a contactor coil, but
it's heavy enough to handle the motor run current all by itself. I think
there were four separate springs in it and another coupla dozen additional
parts.
Soldering fine pitch SMT devices with a microscope or working on mantle
clocks is my kinda fun.
OMG- the Dummkopf radio station is transmitting a network news feed plus a
local newscast simultaneously. They've done it before and it reminds me of
Charles Ives' Variations on the Theme of America.
I should suggest to *$ that they not dump their final pots of diesel fuel
but take them over to the engineers at KHOW in the Denver Tech Center. That
brew will slap ya silly!
If you don't have problems working with small parts, you shouldn't have any
trouble with the Function switch. If you'd rather not risk flying parts as
you open the switch, just rig up a separate switchbox with two on-off light
switches and a cover plate.
I recommend you set up an external switch for both elements and bypass the
Function switch before it fails completely- it shouldn't take much longer to
blow. It's already 1/2 gone now in just a few months
Uh, oh- a "Keep Warm" setting. It must connect the two elements in series
for 1/4 power. Rats- it's a cam-operated switch and there are two white-
?common?- leads. The demented designers made a Rat's Nest of white wires and
I can't quite make it all out.
My motto is "Built there, fixed here." Shouldn't be that tough- the builders
didn't employ magic...
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
Maybe they did have some magic? Keeps ya' humble. No Magic.
On 12/21/06, Derek Bradford  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976

5) From: Lynne
And while you folks help Derek repair his oven, maybe someone can tell 
me how to replace a fuel pump on my [now deceased & sitting in the 
repair shop - perhaps forever] Buick.
sigh...
Lynne (off to the stores by the T this morning...)
[doing my part to spread my second generation Sicilian mom's motto: 
"When You Feel Bad About Yourself, Just Look At Someone w/a Worst 
Situation"]
On Dec 21, 2006, at 10:02 PM, Derek Bradford wrote:
<Snip>

6) From: Eddie Dove
Lynne,
Depending on model and year of your car, your fuel pump is probably inside
the gas tank which requires removing the gas tank.  It is important to make
sure everything get tightened, but not stripped; you don't want any leaks.
On older carbureted cars the fuel line ran on about 6 PSI (pressure) whereas
the fuel injected models are about 36 PSI;  that tidbit is just to reinforce
the fact that you have to make sure it doesn't leak especially with fuel
pumps on fuel injected cars because they create a lot more pressure..  All
of this is from memory recall, so the numbers may not be totally accurate,
but they are just FYI anyway.
Now, the best way to figure out if you want to take on this task is to go
spend about $12.00 on a Haynes Manual (any automotive parts store) that
covers the make, model and year of your car.  They are usually all in one
rack.  These manuals are written for the shade tree mechanic and tell you
how to do it step by step (in plain English), has pictures and references to
specifications and tools.  I buy one for all of my vehicles as soon as they
are available so that I can do much of the work myself.
Hope this helps ...
Eddie
On 12/22/06, Lynne  wrote:
<Snip>

7) From: Lynne
--Apple-Mail-2--487592087
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charsetO-8859-1;
	format=flowed
P.S. to my Mom's saying -
<Snip>
Realized that the sarcasm in my writing may not have been obvious to 
others as it was to me! (that's why I put my "Sicilian mom" quote 
before it).
When I was doing a genealogy research paper for school last semester, I =
found a Sicilian saying that just about explains Italians - forgot the =
exact quote, but it was something to the effect that when you see your =
neighbor's house on fire, help put it out so it doesn't set yours on 
fire. I thought this was hilarious, ONLY because I grew up in this type =
of household. I always was an observer, growing up, probably partly due =
to the writer in me, and partly because (I'm sure they felt), I wasn't =
REALLY Italian.
NOT a motto I live by - but my relatives (may they rest in peace!).... =
- hey, the only way to deal w/that is to LAUGH!
BTW, anyone who appreciates this would love the movie, "Queen of 
Hearts," about an Italian immigrant family in London, made in 1989. One =
of my all time favorite movies!
Lynne
On Dec 22, 2006, at 9:11 AM, Eddie Dove wrote:
<Snip>
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make 
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memory 
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oven
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toggle
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rather 
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me 
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sure
<Snip>
--Apple-Mail-2--487592087
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/enriched;
	charsetO-8859-1
P.S. to my Mom's saying -
 Sicilian mom's motto:
"When You Feel Bad About Yourself, Just Look At Someone w/a Worst
Situation"
Realized that the sarcasm in my writing may not have been obvious to
others as it was to me! (that's why I put my "Sicilian mom" quote
before it). 
When I was doing a genealogy research paper for school last semester,
I found a Sicilian saying that just about explains Italians - forgot
the exact quote, but it was something to the effect that when you see
your neighbor's house on fire, help put it out so it doesn't set yours
on fire. I thought this was hilarious, ONLY because I grew up in this
type of household. I always was an observer, growing up, probably
partly due to the writer in me, and partly because (I'm sure they
felt), I wasn't REALLY Italian.
NOT a motto I live by - but my relatives (may they rest in peace!)....
- hey, the only way to deal w/that is to LAUGH!
BTW, anyone who appreciates this would love the movie, "Queen of
Hearts," about an Italian immigrant family in London, made in 1989.
One of my all time favorite movies!
Lynne
On Dec 22, 2006, at 9:11 AM, Eddie Dove wrote:
Lynne,
Depending on model and year of your car, your fuel pump is probably
inside the gas tank which requires removing the gas tank.  It is
important to make sure everything get tightened, but not stripped; you
don't want any leaks.  On older carbureted cars the fuel line ran on
about 6 PSI (pressure) whereas the fuel injected models are about 36
PSI;  that tidbit is just to reinforce the fact that you have to make
sure it doesn't leak especially with fuel pumps on fuel injected cars
because they create a lot more pressure..  All of this is from memory
recall, so the numbers may not be totally accurate, but they are just
FYI anyway.
Now, the best way to figure out if you want to take on this task is to
go spend about $12.00 on a Haynes Manual (any automotive parts store)
that covers the make, model and year of your car.  They are usually
all in one rack.  These manuals are written for the shade tree
mechanic and tell you how to do it step by step (in plain English),
has pictures and references to specifications and tools.  I buy one
for all of my vehicles as soon as they are available so that I can do
much of the work myself. 
Hope this helps ...
Eddie
On 12/22/06, Lynne
<<0000,0000,EEEElynnebiz>
wrote:
me how to replace a fuel pump on my [now deceased & sitting
in the
repair shop - perhaps forever] Buick.
sigh...
Lynne (off to the stores by the T this morning...)
[doing my part to spread my second generation Sicilian mom's motto:
"When You Feel Bad About Yourself, Just Look At Someone w/a Worst
Situation"]
On Dec 21, 2006, at 10:02 PM, Derek Bradford wrote: 
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
=
0000,0000,EEEhttp://www.rivalproducts.com/productca=t.aspx?cid=137
), and I've been
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
bake
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
=
0000,0000,EEEhttp://picasaweb.google.com/derekbradf=ord/OvenInnards
<Snip>
<Snip>
on 
<Snip>
have
<Snip>
offlist
<Snip>
sure 
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
 >
<Snip>
<Snip>
=
0000,0000,EEEhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/l=istinfo/homeroast
 > To change your personal list settings (digest options, vacations,
<Snip>
<Snip>
=
0000,0000,EEEhttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.ht=ml#personalsettings
<Snip>
homeroast mailing list
=
0000,0000,EEEhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/l=istinfo/homeroast 
To change your personal list settings (digest options, vacations,
unsvbscribes) go to
=
0000,0000,EEEhttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.ht=ml#personalsettings
=
--Apple-Mail-2--487592087--

8) From: Leo Zick
This is a multipart message in MIME format.
Italians in general, Sicilians specifically, have the best sayings.
One of my favs:
Io conosco mio polli!
From: Lynne [mailto:lynnebiz] 
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 9:36 AM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Way OT: Help me fix my oven for Christmas
P.S. to my Mom's saying -
Sicilian mom's motto:
"When You Feel Bad About Yourself, Just Look At Someone w/a Worst
Situation"
Realized that the sarcasm in my writing may not have been obvious to others
as it was to me! (that's why I put my "Sicilian mom" quote before it). 
When I was doing a genealogy research paper for school last semester, I
found a Sicilian saying that just about explains Italians - forgot the exact
quote, but it was something to the effect that when you see your neighbor's
house on fire, help put it out so it doesn't set yours on fire. I thought
this was hilarious, ONLY because I grew up in this type of household. I
always was an observer, growing up, probably partly due to the writer in me,
and partly because (I'm sure they felt), I wasn't REALLY Italian.
NOT a motto I live by - but my relatives (may they rest in peace!).... -
hey, the only way to deal w/that is to LAUGH!
BTW, anyone who appreciates this would love the movie, "Queen of Hearts,"
about an Italian immigrant family in London, made in 1989. One of my all
time favorite movies!
Lynne
On Dec 22, 2006, at 9:11 AM, Eddie Dove wrote:
Lynne,
Depending on model and year of your car, your fuel pump is probably inside
the gas tank which requires removing the gas tank.  It is important to make
sure everything get tightened, but not stripped; you don't want any leaks.
On older carbureted cars the fuel line ran on about 6 PSI (pressure) whereas
the fuel injected models are about 36 PSI;  that tidbit is just to reinforce
the fact that you have to make sure it doesn't leak especially with fuel
pumps on fuel injected cars because they create a lot more pressure..  All
of this is from memory recall, so the numbers may not be totally accurate,
but they are just FYI anyway.
Now, the best way to figure out if you want to take on this task is to go
spend about $12.00 on a Haynes Manual (any automotive parts store) that
covers the make, model and year of your car.  They are usually all in one
rack.  These manuals are written for the shade tree mechanic and tell you
how to do it step by step (in plain English), has pictures and references to
specifications and tools.  I buy one for all of my vehicles as soon as they
are available so that I can do much of the work myself. 
Hope this helps ...
Eddie
On 12/22/06, Lynne  wrote:
me how to replace a fuel pump on my [now deceased & sitting in the
repair shop - perhaps forever] Buick.
sigh...
Lynne (off to the stores by the T this morning...)
[doing my part to spread my second generation Sicilian mom's motto:
"When You Feel Bad About Yourself, Just Look At Someone w/a Worst
Situation"]
On Dec 21, 2006, at 10:02 PM, Derek Bradford wrote: 
<Snip>

9) From: Brian Kamnetz
On 12/22/06, Leo Zick  wrote:
<Snip>
"It knows my chicken"?

10) From: Leo Zick
This is a multipart message in MIME format.
Lol..
I know my chickens
Basically, it means, im not an idiot, I know what im doing..
From: Brian Kamnetz [mailto:bkamnetz] 
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 11:00 AM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Way OT: Help me fix my oven for Christmas
On 12/22/06, Leo Zick  wrote: 
Io conosco mio polli!
"It knows my chicken"?

11) From: Brett Mason
Not so fast Leo, you're more like us!
On 12/22/06, Leo Zick  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

12) From: raymanowen
"When You Feel Bad About Yourself, Just Look At Someone w/a Worst Situation"
Then you mention "Queen of Hearts"
Hah! The person in a worse situation would remember HRH Lucas, starring in
"King of Darkness."
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
-- 
I may be an idiot- I'm learning by doing...

13) From: raymanowen
Lynne, there's a "Tilt" switch somewhere in the car the purpose of which is
to shut off the fuel pump(s) in the event of an accident and potential
broken fuel lines.
If you have fuel in the tank and a decent battery, switch On the ignition.
The Check Engine light on the dash will illuminate and the fuel pump(s) will
run for a second or so. You can hear it right as you turn the ignition
switch On. You can reset the Tilt switch if something has tripped it.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
"Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of
thought."
 John F. Kennedy

14) From: Brian Kamnetz
Ray,
I have to say I enjoyed your tagline more than I have almost any since Scot
had all of his gems.
Brian
On 12/22/06, raymanowen  wrote:
<Snip>

15) From: Derek Bradford
Quick update to the oven situation...
It occurred to me that I bought the oven at Costco, so I'm waiting to
hear back from them about returning it for an exchange.   I no longer
have the receipt, but I'm hoping they can see the purchase on my
account.
If that doesn't work, then I'll rewire.  It's finicky, but I think I
can coax it into making shortbreads and miniature loaves of regular
bread until I hear back from Costco.  If they're good enough to take
it back, they'll probably give me a hard time about the light switches
on the side of the oven that don't appear on the box photos.
Thanks for the help; I'll tackle the rewiring as soon as I've heard
from Costco.
Cheers,
--Derek
On 12/23/06, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
<Snip>
-- http://www.novernae.comHome of the Wandering Sloth

16) From: raymanowen
Derek- you should point out to Costco that you have published your
experiences to thousands of clients. They think they have this one on a
short leash for renewal, but not until I hear of your experience will I
consider it.
If you do get another one, remember that the Function switch is a weakfish.
Adjust it before you turn the power On with the timer switch. After the
power is On, don't reset the Function switch unless you modify the thing
with a pair of Triacs to unload all the switch contacts.
Put one on each heater, then the switches only have to handle microamps of
gate current. Let the timer continue as a power shut-off, and you'll still
have a safe oven.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976


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