HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Not Another Starbucks Thread! (12 msgs / 309 lines)
1) From: Steve Hay
I found this to be interesting.  A *$ response to some of the claims they
are "evil".http://slashdot.org/articles/07/01/02/2117236.shtml-- 
Steven Hay
hay.steve -AT- gmail.com
Barry Paradox: Consider k to be the greatest element of the set of natural
numbers whose description require maximum of 50 words: "(k+1) is a natural
number which requires more than 50 words to describe it."

2) From: Woody DeCasere
i have a good friend who works at a starbucks and is on the management
treadmill, i agree with the video, they are not the axis of evil, if you
don't like their coffee then fine don't drink it but you cat say they are
ruining the coffee trade, that is opinion, unmerited  and not knowledgeable.
I know starbucks is everybody's favorite whipping boy around here, but lets
at least not kill them for what they don't actually do.
On 1/2/07, Steve Hay  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"And we'd better not risk another frontal assault, that rabbit's dynamite!!"http://www.decasere.blogspot.com/

3) From: hermit
Hi Woody -
I have to agree with you.  I wonder how many folks started out their
coffee journey at the very same place they rip on?  I wonder how many
folks on this list *still* pop into a Starbucks on occasion - I do. As
far as Starbuck's staff?  Hey!  They're working and making an honest
living, and I respect that.  Do they make mistakes?  Sure they do.
I've made a few myself today and it is only 0430.  
Rich
<Snip>
are
<Snip>
knowledgeable.
<Snip>
lets
<Snip>
they
<Snip>
natural
<Snip>
natural
<Snip>

4) From: Scot Murphy
On Jan 5, 2007, at 3:28 AM, hermit wrote:
<Snip>
I have derided *$ in the past, but I'm reconsidering that. For one,  
they did, mostly, create the awareness of coffee varietals among  
consumers who previously thought "gourmet coffee" was robusta sprayed  
with chemical flavor. For another, despite their somewhat loathesome  
marketing, they will do in a pinch. New Year's weekend, I was in the  
boonies outside Indianapolis. Before starting home, I had resigned  
myself to bad coffee from a Speedway convenience store, but noticed a  
*$ in a strip mall across the street.
For one, the positively charming young lady at the window only  
charged me refill prices for my two 24-ounce travel mugs. (I got two  
redeyes.) For another, it was their "mild" roast, meaning it wasn't  
that burnt. For a third, it really wasn't that stale--I imagine their  
turnover is high enough that beans don't sit around too long. No, it  
wasn't fresh, but it wasn't awful. It was, for sure, a hell of a lot  
better than Speedway coffee. So I had enough coffee to last me until  
I got back home in the northwest Chicago suburbs.
*$ has its place, and yeah, it's too bad more people don't see  
through the marketing and realize that better coffee is out there.  
But when compared to White Hen or Speedway or BP's "Wild Bean Cafe,"  
it's positively wonderful.
Scot "not too ashamed" Murphy
---
"You were sick, but now you're well again, and there's work to do."
                           --Kilgore Trout

5) From: Larry Dorman
<Snip>
Good point...  While I was already into good coffee, I had never had
an espresso drink before getting a Starbucks latte while doing some
business travel.  It was the beginning of a fond addiction.  Quite
comparable to my journey for regular coffee starting with rat poison
in a can (folgers) to my current love affair with Sweet Marias and
home roasting.
I personally feel that the Starbucks latte quality has suffered
tremendously since they've gone from real espresso machines to the
all-in-oneders.  This evaulation is allowing for my own requirements
having become more demanding at the same time.

6) From: )))stereo?!?plegic(((
*$ wasn't my first latte or cappa, i started out at Cafe Artiste (which 
has gone waaaaay downhill), then Cafe Brasil, then Empire Cafe, (all 
indepent (as far as i know) shops in Houston's Montrose area) before i 
tried *$. honestly, i don't think they're any worse drink-wise than the 
aforementioned indies, and the service is MUCH better at most of the *$ 
locations i've been to (Empire's service isn't bad, but the owners of 
Artiste and Brasil are straight-up A**HOLES).
ldorman wrote:
<Snip>
i never could truly enjoy my coffee black until i tried *$ Kenya at 
their recommended dosage (2 Tbsp/6oz water. I still go there for my iced 
coffee because it's hot-brewed (not a big fan of toddy).
<Snip>
the La Marzoccos definitely made better cappa foam (in the hands of a 
good barista; and yes, list members, i have seen them in green or black 
aprons), as their manual steam wands had variable throttle. the 
Verissimo automatic wands go all-out till they reach 160 (not sure about 
the futuretro automatic Magistrales). But sometimes that's the price you 
pay to appease a line that stretches from the register(s) to the door. 
As far as the espresso is concerned, you can ask them to time the shots 
and, if necessary, adjust their (built in) grinders.
<Snip>

7) From: Scott Marquardt
The more *$ manages to burnish its brass when critiqued during a period
where they're becoming the confectionary beverage mecca of the West, the
more they become as banal and Disney as the Golden Arches. And yes, I was
using Disney as an adjective there.    ;-)
- Scott (two Ts, if you please ;-)

8) From: Brett Mason
Drat...
We grew up in Orange County, and love Disney.
I can play the theme to the Electric Light Parade on my Charvel without thinking
My kids love McDonalds too.
Starbucks has become both an American icon and a homeroast target...
I don't care much for their coffee, but, yes, I came through my coffee
passion by buying many many many many vente drips, some with an extra
shot...
Brett
On 1/7/07, Scott Marquardt  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

9) From: Scott Marquardt
I don't mind people loving Disney, as long as we know we're being
impassioned about an engineered experience. That's not entirely bad either;
as parents, part of our job is engineering the experience of our children to
guide their development. Pure adventure where things can run amok at random
would be irresponsible parenthood.
I'm just weary of a holodeck world offered in a risk-free vacation package.
I'd rather risk a shark in a real reef than have some perennially Botoxed
hospitality person cheer me with assurance that the pixelated architecture
of the faux version will make me even happier. What if "happiness" isn't my
Polaris (marketing people on the list, scrape your jaw off the floor)?
For me, it's about authentiticy. The mileage of others will almost certainly
vary, because few folk are as pathologically philosophical (not to say
cynical ;-) on this particular point as I.
- Scott
On 1/7/07, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>

10) From: Brett Mason
Scott you have absolutely no perspective.
I was 6, trapped on mu stool, inside the USS Nautilus, descending under the
polar ice cap, when an octopus reached out its tentacles to ensnare our
boat.  Such fear, such a predicament...  This was 1964...
What's a holodeck?
Brett
On 1/7/07, Scott Marquardt  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

11) From: Scott Marquardt
I definitely have a perspective. It's that Disney has perfected the art of
mediating visceral entertainment.
Philosophically, my attitude is that I prefer fewer -- and less powerful --
mediators. Politically I prefer many and small mediating institutions
between the individual and the government. Culturally I don't like seeing
things leveled to common denominators of cultural exchange by a few big
players who view the consumer as a pawn in a quest to dominate markets.
That's a definite perspective, and if I let it, it'd be as capable of
delivering fear and a sense of predicament -- except that there's something
really there to fear (if you think such power merits that degree of
respect).
It's not even the content of such experiences that's primarily at issue for
me. "The medium is the massage" and all that.
But consider two separate stories being told by two teenagers. One went to a
theme park, and recounts how he felt during the architected adventure where
it seemed very real that a shark was rushing him underwater. The other went
to a reef, and recounts how he remained very still behind a coral while a
shark slowly prowled nearby, then left. The former is mediated experience --
second order reality (simulacrum). The latter was immediate presentation of
naked reality to the mind (if you're a realist). The former allows for few
significant implications because the reporter isn't letting you talk to his
sources, so to speak. The latter allows for a lot of implications and
invites a lot of questions about reality itself, rather than concerning the
quality of the instrumentation that delivered the experience (which are
analogous to asking how much RAM your video card has, as opposed to asking
whether you have 20/20 vision in your actual eyes).
There's just no substitute for reality -- unpredictable and unengineered.
The alternative's limit case you'll remember from SNL when you and I were
young -- "Just . . . take a pill!"    ;-)
Someday when some accursed generation is walking around with video screens
surgically installed over their eyes and cameras atop their heads, someone's
going to figure out how to take hers off and have a look around. My hope is
that she'll like the color depth and resolution and decide to leave 'em
off.    ;-D
- Scott
On 1/7/07, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>

12) From: True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)
Well Stated Scott! I agree I started out at *$, Krispy Kreme and Dunkin
donuts, for my "good coffee" and even with their over roasting I was
able to find right away I enjoyed the coffees from Africa the most. The
progression is not unique and Most of us SNOBS were just searching for
that better cup! We have found it and we love sharing the gospel of
homeroast!
Dennis
AKA
FC1(SW) Dennis W. True
Safety Dept
USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN 69)
FPO AE 09532-2830
HG/DB and Z&D roasting in the Currently Classified
 "On station and on point 117 and counting down..." 
On Jan 5, 2007, at 3:28 AM, hermit wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
I have derided *$ in the past, but I'm reconsidering that. For one,  
they did, mostly, create the awareness of coffee varietals among  
consumers who previously thought "gourmet coffee" was robusta sprayed  
with chemical flavor. For another, despite their somewhat loathesome  
marketing, they will do in a pinch. New Year's weekend, I was in the  
boonies outside Indianapolis. Before starting home, I had resigned  
myself to bad coffee from a Speedway convenience store, but noticed a  
*$ in a strip mall across the street.
For one, the positively charming young lady at the window only  
charged me refill prices for my two 24-ounce travel mugs. (I got two  
redeyes.) For another, it was their "mild" roast, meaning it wasn't  
that burnt. For a third, it really wasn't that stale--I imagine their  
turnover is high enough that beans don't sit around too long. No, it  
wasn't fresh, but it wasn't awful. It was, for sure, a hell of a lot  
better than Speedway coffee. So I had enough coffee to last me until  
I got back home in the northwest Chicago suburbs.
*$ has its place, and yeah, it's too bad more people don't see  
through the marketing and realize that better coffee is out there.  
But when compared to White Hen or Speedway or BP's "Wild Bean Cafe,"  
it's positively wonderful.
Scot "not too ashamed" Murphy
---
"You were sick, but now you're well again, and there's work to do."
                           --Kilgore Trout


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