HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Signal to Noise (15 msgs / 855 lines)
1) From: Ed Needham
In all my years on the Sweetmarias Homeroast List, I've never made a post 
like this one.
Today, I received close to two hundred posts (I didn't count) from the 
Sweetmarias list, for one day!  I just deleted --unread-- close to 700 posts 
since last week.  I read a few, skimmed and deleted a few but the bulk was 
just deleted unread.  I probably deleted a lot of great content in some of 
the posts.  I hate doing that, but I don't have the patience or the time to 
sift through the 'non-roasting', even 'non-coffee' posts to find the ones of 
value.
OT stuff is almost always interesting, but there's a whole freakin internet 
FULL of OT stuff out there if I choose to look.  I come here for 
homeroasting conversation.
<<>>  The volume of the list is becoming 
overwhelming and the signal to noise is to the point where it's almost not 
worth reading.  I'm finding myself hitting  delete, delete, delete over and 
over without even having the time to read the well thought out posts along 
with the fluff.
Please make sure your post has some content to add to the group.  'Me too' 
and 'thanks' or 'chit chat' posts should be sent off list unless your post 
has something to add.
I've always asserted that Tom should police the list and I can keep out of 
it, but that's not really happening and the list is becoming more and more 
diluted with OT and chit chat posts.
Please be responsible with your posts, and if in doubt about whether to 
post, just resist unless you absolutely have to.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

2) From: Dan Bollinger
Ed, I know what you mean. I did a quick check and about a third of the posts are 
off topic and I didn't count the ones labeled OT.  Dan
<Snip>

3) From: Sandy Andina
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I propose that the software be reset so that hitting "reply" or  
"send" sends one's post backchannel, and that to post to the list  
you'd need to click "reply all." It is a tremendous PITA to have to  
type out or cut-and-paste an individual e-mail address (far bigger  
PITA than hitting the Delete key).  I belong to both types of  
listervs pertaining to various subjects, and the former is MUCH  
easier to deal with.
Or maybe we need a side list where OT posts, as long as not  
inflammatory or ad hominem, are permissible and welcomed.
And for the record, 200 posts a day from this list is on the low side  =
lately.
On Jan 15, 2007, at 6:02 PM, Ed Needham wrote:
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Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
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I propose that the software be =
reset so that hitting "reply" or "send" sends one's post backchannel, =
and that to post to the list you'd need to click "reply all." It is a =
tremendous PITA to have to type out or cut-and-paste an individual =
e-mail address (far bigger PITA than hitting the Delete key).  I =
belong to both types of listervs pertaining to various subjects, and the =
former is MUCH easier to deal with. 
Or maybe we need a side = list where OT posts, as long as not inflammatory or ad hominem, are = permissible and welcomed.
And for the record, 200 = posts a day from this list is on the low side lately.   O= n Jan 15, 2007, at 6:02 PM, Ed Needham wrote:

Today, I = received close to two hundred posts (I didn't count) from the = Sweetmarias list, for one day!  = I just deleted --unread-- close to 700 posts since last = week.  I read a few, = skimmed and deleted a few but the bulk was just deleted unread.  I probably deleted a lot of = great content in some of the posts. = I hate doing that, but I don't have the patience or the time to = sift through the 'non-roasting', even 'non-coffee' posts to find the = ones of value. OT stuff is almost always interesting, but there's a = whole freakin internet FULL of OT stuff out there if I choose to = look.  I come here for = homeroasting conversation. <<<Resist the urge to = post OT!>>>  The = volume of the list is becoming overwhelming and the signal to noise is = to the point where it's almost not worth reading.  I'm finding myself = hitting  delete, delete, = delete over and over without even having the time to read the well = thought out posts along with the fluff. Please make = sure your post has some content to add to the group.  'Me too' and 'thanks' or = 'chit chat' posts should be sent off list unless your post has something = to add. I've always asserted that Tom should police the list = and I can keep out of it, but that's not really happening and the list = is becoming more and more diluted with OT and chit chat posts. Please = be responsible with your posts, and if in doubt about whether to post, = just resist unless you absolutely have to.Ed = Needham®"to absurdity and = beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include[FRIEND] in subject line to get through my = SPAM filters)********************* homeroast mailing listhttp://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change your personal list settings (digest = options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings = Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-210--526878131--

4) From: Sandy Andina
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Then perhaps a second side list might be in order--there are also  
some of us tempted to unsub if we can only talk roasting and nothing  
but, not even "I concur."
On Jan 15, 2007, at 6:27 PM, Robert Silber wrote:
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Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
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Then perhaps a second side list =
might be in order--there are also some of us tempted to unsub if we can =
only talk roasting and nothing but, not even "I concur."
On =
Jan 15, 2007, at 6:27 PM, Robert Silber wrote:

I just joined and I'm mightly tempted to = unsubscribe due to OTs -- I've a family, a long commute, and need = something on point.

Bob Silber

From: Sandy = Andina <sandraandina> R= eply-To: homeroast= s.com To: homeroast= s.com Subject: Re: +Signal to Noise Date: Mon, = 15 Jan 2007 18:12:46 -0600 I propose that the software be = reset so that hitting "reply" or "send" sends one's post backchannel, = and that to post to the list you'd need to click "reply all." It is a = tremendous PITA to have to type out or cut-and-paste an individual = e-mail address (far bigger PITA than hitting the Delete key).  I = belong to both types of listervs pertaining to various subjects, and the = former is MUCH easier to deal with. 
Or maybe we need a side = list where OT posts, as long as not inflammatory or ad hominem, are = permissible and welcomed.
And for the record, 200 = posts a day from this list is on the low side lately.   = On Jan 15, 2007, at 6:02 PM, Ed Needham wrote:

Today, I received close to two hundred posts (I didn't count) from = the Sweetmarias list, for one day! = I just deleted --unread-- close to 700 posts since last = week.  I read a few, = skimmed and deleted a few but the bulk was just deleted unread.  I probably deleted a lot of = great content in some of the posts. = I hate doing that, but I don't have the patience or the time to = sift through the 'non-roasting', even 'non-coffee' posts to find the = ones of value. OT stuff is almost always = interesting, but there's a whole freakin internet FULL of OT stuff out = there if I choose to look.  = I come here for homeroasting conversation. <<<Resist the urge to post OT!>>>  The volume of the list is = becoming overwhelming and the signal to noise is to the point where it's = almost not worth reading.  = I'm finding myself hitting = delete, delete, delete over and over without even having the = time to read the well thought out posts along with the fluff. Please make sure your post has some content to add to the = group.  'Me too' and = 'thanks' or 'chit chat' posts should be sent off list unless your post = has something to add. I've always asserted that Tom = should police the list and I can keep out of it, but that's not really = happening and the list is becoming more and more diluted with OT and = chit chat posts. Please be responsible with = your posts, and if in doubt about whether to post, just resist unless = you absolutely have to. ********************* Ed = Needham® "to absurdity and = beyond!" http://www.homeroaster.com= (include [FRIEND] in subject line to get = through my SPAM filters) ********************* = homeroast mailing list http://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast To change your personal list settings (digest = options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<= /DIV> Sandy www.sandyandina.comwww.sass-music.com

Your = Hotmail address already works to sign into Windows Live Messenger! Get = it now. homeroast = mailing list http://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast To change your = personal list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to = http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<= BR> Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-211--525719251--

5) From: Eddie Laperruque
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
me too Bob - just came on-line today - what a shock!
Ed

6) From: Todd Musselwhite
One method of dealing with the volume I use is to have a rule based on the
sender's address (*lists.sweetmarias.com) to sort to a specific folder so my
inbox isn't clogged and then sort that folder by topic.  I can then scan the
topics and read the ones that are of interest to me then 'select all' and
delete. 
But then again, not having too do that would be nice too.

7) From: Jeff Oien
I agree. I know this is going to tick a lot of people off, but
I don't think the OT posts and creating "community" by them are 
important for a coffee list and more importantly from what I've read
isn't the intent of the list created by the list owner. ! We are a
community without the OT posts.
I've heard from at least a couple people in person and I'm sure there
are hundreds of others who subscribed to the list and unsubscribed
out of frustration because of all the off topic stuff. While not all
of them quit being SM customers, I wouldn't think this is good for
business. I also unsubscribed for a while to take a break.
Because I don't like all the clutter I made a rule with myself to
only post on topic posts and have stuck with that for a long time,
maybe a year (change the world one person at a time?), until this post.
Sorry for being hypocritical, I'll go back to only on topic stuff again.
JeffO
Ed Needham wrote:
<Snip>

8) From: James
BZZZTTT! Just a reminder for those that are unable to use the delete and fi=
lter options: the sense of community is what keeps a lot of the "old wisdom=
 and experience" on the list. After all, a bunch of newbies with endless qu=
estions don't really have a lot to offer to experienced home roasters and e=
spresso mavens. I hope you will keep this in mind as you get used to the li=
st. With all due respect,
  
James in Southern CA.
----- Original =
Message ----
From: Eddie Laperruque 
To: homeroast=
ts.sweetmarias.com
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 4:45:59 PM
Subject: R=
e: +Signal to Noise
 
 
me too Bob - just came on-line=
 today - what a 
shock!
Ed

9) From: Ronnie Kramer
I'll pipe in though I'm spanking new to the list.  My experience with all lists serves is that for the first few weeks I'm excited and don't mind all the topics, because it's all new to me.  I've been deleting posts on GC, HotTop and other stuff not relevent to me from the begining.  Same with sourkrout.
   
  I don't mind that people get off track.  That's what happens in any discussion.  But from my experience, I'll be be leaving the list in a month or so just because of all the messages cluttering my box.  I've pretty much quite every listserve I've ever been on within 2 or 3 months.
   
  Is there a possibility of a message board forum where people could post stictly by topic?  No emails.  Most of the forums out there have off-topic sections for folks to discuss anything they like.  These are the things I may not keep up with for awhile, but can always come back to when I have time.  Off course I realize, these things need to be moderated.
   
  -Ronnie
Jeff Oien  wrote:
  I agree. I know this is going to tick a lot of people off, but
I don't think the OT posts and creating "community" by them are 
important for a coffee list and more importantly from what I've read
isn't the intent of the list created by the list owner. ! We are a
community without the OT posts.
I've heard from at least a couple people in person and I'm sure there
are hundreds of others who subscribed to the list and unsubscribed
out of frustration because of all the off topic stuff. While not all
of them quit being SM customers, I wouldn't think this is good for
business. I also unsubscribed for a while to take a break.
Because I don't like all the clutter I made a rule with myself to
only post on topic posts and have stuck with that for a long time,
maybe a year (change the world one person at a time?), until this post.
Sorry for being hypocritical, I'll go back to only on topic stuff again.
JeffO
Ed Needham wrote:
<Snip>Ronnie Kramer
Austin, TX

10) From: Brett Mason
Hi Ronnie,
Don't miss www.homeroasters.org where messages are posted on forums.  Most
of the folks there love the products and services of Sweet Marias as well -
perhaps this can meet some of what you are asking for in a forum setting.
Regards,
Brett
P.S. One man's OT post is another woman's coffee pursuit.  Stepford is
another few miles down the road....
On 1/15/07, Ronnie Kramer  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

11) From: Ronnie Kramer
Thanks Brett, I've looked at it and added it to my favorites.
   
  -Ronnie
Brett Mason  wrote:
  Hi Ronnie,
Don't miss www.homeroasters.org where messages are posted on forums.  Most of the folks there love the products and services of Sweet Marias as well - perhaps this can meet some of what you are asking for in a forum setting. 
Regards,
Brett
P.S. One man's OT post is another woman's coffee pursuit.  Stepford is another few miles down the road....
  On 1/15/07, Ronnie Kramer  wrote:    I'll pipe in though I'm spanking new to the list.  My experience with all lists serves is that for the first few weeks I'm excited and don't mind all the topics, because it's all new to me.  I've been deleting posts on GC, HotTop and other stuff not relevent to me from the begining.  Same with sourkrout. 
   
  I don't mind that people get off track.  That's what happens in any discussion.  But from my experience, I'll be be leaving the list in a month or so just because of all the messages cluttering my box.  I've pretty much quite every listserve I've ever been on within 2 or 3 months. 
   
  Is there a possibility of a message board forum where people could post stictly by topic?  No emails.  Most of the forums out there have off-topic sections for folks to discuss anything they like.  These are the things I may not keep up with for awhile, but can always come back to when I have time.  Off course I realize, these things need to be moderated.
   
  -Ronnie  
Jeff Oien < jeff> wrote:
    I agree. I know this is going to tick a lot of people off, but 
I don't think the OT posts and creating "community" by them are 
important for a coffee list and more importantly from what I've read
isn't the intent of the list created by the list owner. ! We are a 
community without the OT posts.
I've heard from at least a couple people in person and I'm sure there
are hundreds of others who subscribed to the list and unsubscribed
out of frustration because of all the off topic stuff. While not all 
of them quit being SM customers, I wouldn't think this is good for
business. I also unsubscribed for a while to take a break.
Because I don't like all the clutter I made a rule with myself to
only post on topic posts and have stuck with that for a long time,
maybe a year (change the world one person at a time?), until this post.
Sorry for being hypocritical, I'll go back to only on topic stuff again. 
JeffO
Ed Needham wrote:
<Snip>
  > <<>> The volume of the list is becoming 
<Snip>Ronnie Kramer
Austin, TX 
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com
Ronnie Kramer
Austin, TX

12) From: Sheila Quinn
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I like Sandy's idea. I'm on other lists with this option and it works 
great! Although it doesn't cut down on *all* of the unnecessary stuff, 
it really does help. Getting this many messages from just one list 
(where many of them are completely OT and dragging on waaaay too long) 
is a PITA. Delete key or not, it's a hassle to sift through so much junk.
Sheila
Sandy Andina wrote:
<Snip>

13) From: Jared Andersson
I have been on this list for about 4 years, roast with multiple methods,
engage in most every brew method, respect Ed as one of the great modern
pioneers of home roasting and I need to disagree with him while respecting
all else he has done on this list.  I love off topic posts. I don't love
them all but I love them as a whole as much as I love the on topic posts.
Off topic posts are about the people behind the on topic posts and I really
like all of the people on this list and the passions they have that are
independent of this list.  Jared
On 1/15/07, Ed Needham  wrote:
<Snip>

14) From: Ed Needham
I am well versed in filtering and hitting the delete key.  This list has 
done just fine for the 10 years or so I've been on it (1996-97? don't 
remember) by posters being respectful of the rules and limiting OT to coffee 
and roasting related OT, such as discussing gatherings or significant coffee 
events.  OT has never disappeared, and OT gripes have happened for as long 
as I remember, but OT also has never been as bad as it is now.
Believe me, we can be a community and keep on topic.  There is enough to 
talk about related to green coffee and roasting to fill up our inboxes.  I 
hate to delete posts sight unseen, but I just don't have the time to scan 
200+ posts a day for the few meaningful posts.
Just don't post OT.  And don't reply unless you have something to add.  Very 
simple.  In the long run, it will make for a much better group.
(and trim posts you reply to of unnecessary text for clarity)
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

15) From: Ed Needham
Many of the OT posts are interesting...but the volume of OT to topic is 
ridiculously high.  I'm not here for OT.  I can get that in numerous other 
forums on Jewish faith, sauerkraut, etc.  I'm on this list for the pure joy 
of homeroasting.  Nothing more.  If I never saw another OT post on this 
list, it would be fine with me.  Post something 'on topic and include a bit 
of OT within the post.  If someone is interested in that little tidbit of 
OT, then they can follow up with the original poster off list.  If the 
original poster gets a hundred emails about his OT topic, he is more than 
welcome to link those people together in an email volley to discuss...off 
list.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************


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