HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Home Coffee Roasting Mailing List Rules / OT posts (LONG post) (14 msgs / 506 lines)
1) From: Sweet Maria's Coffee
Hello List,
First off: there's no particular need to reply to this on the list.
Unforunately Sweet Maria's has been backlogged and busy so list admin 
has been on the backburner. Tom and I haven't had the time we usually 
spend to keep up with the list like we should. He said I should step 
in and try to help clear things up.
Here is a link to the list rules:http://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#listrulesHere is the comment about Off Topic posts:
Off topic posting is discouraged, but if it is a spinoff of a 
coffee-related thread, please use the subject line convention "OT". 
OT is meant, as they say on the stage, as an "aside." People who 
consistently start off topic threads or don't properly label off 
topic threads are due for removal from the list. OT threads that have 
political, religious or other flashpoint topics and have the intent 
to antagonize will result in the removal of the poster.
Here is our advice if you have a list problem:
Please communicate with me, Tom, personally at tom-at-sweetmarias.com 
if you ever have questions about the rules, or if something you want 
to post conflicts with them.
(You could alternately email us at info and Maria or 
I will try to help)
So... that about wraps things up. We do appreciate that Ed and others 
stepped in. On the other side in favor of OT, everyone has very good 
points to make. Personally I enjoy some of the OT posts but I will 
admit that the sheer quantity of posts to the list guarantees that I 
will not have time to read it all, especially now. By decreasing OT 
posts, consolidating thoughts into one post, etc... we can make the 
list more manageable for everyone. This will encourage more 
worthwhile posts as well.
I've been on list-serves since 1993 and have seen signal to noise 
problems many times. I think it was the new lister Ronnie who brought 
up the Forum idea again. Yes, this is certainly a solution we are 
still shooting for. All threads would have a topic heading and a 
misc./off-topic section would enable a lot of the 'noise' to be 
contained in one place.  There could even be a live chat set up too.
It is heartwarming to see the sense of community building on the list 
and folks finding other things in common besides coffee. I hope that 
switching to a forum will let us explore these other avenues and 
other things we care to discuss without bogging down a workingman's 
inbox.
Also... I think it's important if people can consolidate their 
thoughts into one email if possible. Also, keep in mind when replying 
that you should trim your posts, especially if you reply to a digest 
or a long series of posts. I am seeing a lot of dropped posts on the 
server because the posts are simply too 'big' (usually meaning they 
were not trimmed free of html or the original post).
We appreciate everyone's input on the list and hope everyone stays aboard.
Best, Derek & Sweet Maria's Coffee
--
                   "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
            Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting  -  Tom & Maria
                      http://www.sweetmarias.com

2) From: miKe mcKoffee
Please also note SM's "official" request below to not only limit OT but also
change/modify the subject line as appropriate! After Les's reminder a number
of both "OT:Linux..." and the "Bandwidth is getting a little wide" replies
were about moka pots. Sure would seem appropriate and courteous to change
the subject line to reflect what the hell is being discussed as requested by
SM. 
Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
<Snip>

3) From: Brett Mason
Get over it moderators, the posts haven't been that long, coffee is
still in focus, and nobody's been flamed.  Gestapo Coffee Haus is not
in vogue, and the list members have been pretty well contained this
round.  Maybe we need to drop down to email thread level ORANGE for a
while...
Brett
On 2/22/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

4) From: miKe mcKoffee
Yes, disrespect and ignore direct requests from Sweet Maria's. How
thoughtful Brett.
<Snip>

5) From: George Miller
Ya Tom of SM, get over it if we don't do as you ask on your digest.  We are=
 the ones who post on here, you hardly do, so just get over it.
YA RIG=
HT.
 
George       the MadHemi Roaster of CNY
----- Origi=
nal Message ----
From: Brett Mason 
To: homeroast@=
lists.sweetmarias.com
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 10:01:53 AM
Sub=
ject: Re: +Home Coffee Roasting Mailing List Rules / OT posts (LONG post)=
Get over it moderators, the posts haven't been that long, coffee is=
still in focus, and nobody's been flamed.  Gestapo Coffee Haus is not
=
in vogue, and the list members have been pretty well contained this
round=
.  Maybe we need to drop down to email thread level ORANGE for a
while...=
Brett
On 2/22/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
> =
Please also note SM's "official" request below to not only limit OT but als=
o
> change/modify the subject line as appropriate! After Les's reminder a=
 number
> of both "OT:Linux..." and the "Bandwidth is getting a little wi=
de" replies
> were about moka pots. Sure would seem appropriate and court=
eous to change
> the subject line to reflect what the hell is being discu=
ssed as requested by
> SM.
>
> Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
> URL =
to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:
>http://mdmint.home.comc=ast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htm
> Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is=
 a solitary path. To know I must
> first not know. And in knowing know I =
know not. Each Personal enlightenment
> found exploring the many divergen=
t foot steps of Those who have gone before.
>
> Sweet Maria's List - Se=
archable Archives
>http://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/>
>
> > -----Or=
iginal Message-----
> > From: homeroast-admin
> >=
 [mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of
> > Sweet Ma=
ria's Coffee
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 11:42 AM
> > To: homer=
oast
> > Subject: +Home Coffee Roasting Mailing Lis=
t Rules / OT posts
> > (LONG post)
> >
> > Hello List,
> >
> > Fi=
rst off: there's no particular need to reply to this on the list.
> >
>=
 > Unforunately Sweet Maria's has been backlogged and busy so list admin
=
<Snip>
> > spend to keep up with the list like we should. He said I should step=
> > in and try to help clear things up.
> >
> > Here is a link to th=
e list rules:
> >http://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#listrules=> >
> > Here is the comment about Off Topic posts:
> > Off topic pos=
ting is discouraged, but if it is a spinoff of a
> > coffee-related threa=
d, please use the subject line convention "OT".
> > OT is meant, as they =
say on the stage, as an "aside." People who
> > consistently start off to=
pic threads or don't properly label off
> > topic threads are due for rem=
oval from the list. OT threads that have
> > political, religious or othe=
r flashpoint topics and have the intent
> > to antagonize will result in =
the removal of the poster.
> >
> > Here is our advice if you have a lis=
t problem:
> > Please communicate with me, Tom, personally at tom-at-swee=
tmarias.com
> > if you ever have questions about the rules, or if somethi=
ng you want
> > to post conflicts with them.
> > (You could alternately=
 email us at info and Maria or
> > I will try to help)
=
<Snip>
hers
> > stepped in. On the other side in favor of OT, everyone has very =
good
> > points to make. Personally I enjoy some of the OT posts but I wi=
ll
> > admit that the sheer quantity of posts to the list guarantees that=
 I
> > will not have time to read it all, especially now. By decreasing O=
T
> > posts, consolidating thoughts into one post, etc... we can make the=
> > list more manageable for everyone. This will encourage more
> > wo=
rthwhile posts as well.
> >
> > I've been on list-serves since 1993 and=
 have seen signal to noise
> > problems many times. I think it was the ne=
w lister Ronnie who brought
> > up the Forum idea again. Yes, this is cer=
tainly a solution we are
> > still shooting for. All threads would have a=
 topic heading and a
> > misc./off-topic section would enable a lot of th=
e 'noise' to be
> > contained in one place.  There could even be a live c=
hat set up too.
> >
> > It is heartwarming to see the sense of communit=
y building on the list
> > and folks finding other things in common besid=
es coffee. I hope that
> > switching to a forum will let us explore these=
 other avenues and
> > other things we care to discuss without bogging do=
wn a workingman's
> > inbox.
> >
> > Also... I think it's important i=
f people can consolidate their
> > thoughts into one email if possible. A=
lso, keep in mind when replying
> > that you should trim your posts, espe=
cially if you reply to a digest
> > or a long series of posts. I am seein=
g a lot of dropped posts on the
> > server because the posts are simply t=
oo 'big' (usually meaning they
> > were not trimmed free of html or the o=
riginal post).
> >
> > We appreciate everyone's input on the list and h=
ope everyone
> > stays aboard.
> >
> > Best, Derek & Sweet Maria's Co=
ffee
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >=
> >
> >                    "Gr=
eat coffee comes from tiny roasters"
> >             Sweet Maria's Home C=
offee Roasting  -  Tom & Maria
> >                       http://www.swee=tmarias.com
> >
> > hom=
eroast mailing list
> >http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/hom=eroast
> > To change your personal list settings (digest options,
> > v=
acations, unsvbscribes) go to
> >http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.htm=l#personalsettings
> >
>
>=
> homeroast mailing list
>http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/l=istinfo/homeroast
> To change your personal list settings (digest options=
, vacations, unsvbscribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#p=ersonalsettings
>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.fre=eservers.com
homeroast =
mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo=
 change your personal list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribe=
s) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings=

6) From: George
Only common sense and courtesy.   For one I hate it when a thread I o=
riginally was interested in turns into one or more topics and hardly never =
returns to the original topic.  Myself and others waste more time going thr=
ough them just to read things they not interested in.  I have quit several =
forums and digests like this for just that reason.  The only thing that kee=
ps me here now is the occasional on topic coffee chat.  If everyone would d=
o as
 SM's rules and suggestions imply, along with your's and others that=
 do follow the rules most of the time it would be a lot easier.  It is hard=
 on us that would like to filter out what we're not interested in without h=
aving to read topics of interest just to find the whole message isn't relat=
ed in any reasonable way.  We can't filter stuff
 out if messages aren't =
containing what they are supposed to or some reasonable deviation thereof f=
or a message or two tops.  Perhaps those of us who really only want the maj=
ority of messages to be about coffee, should start another digest of our ow=
n.  It can still be SM related, but it will demand all topics are on topic.=
  In the old days, before the internet, I had a 5 phone line BBS.  In it we=
re message board areas on any topic you wanted.  Most all sysops or their a=
ssistants would police the message boards to some degree.  Gross violations=
 would either end up in being kicked from the BBS after warnings or access =
limited to other areas like files, games, live chat, or whatever.  On my sy=
stem if the poster wanted to continue on a thread that was way out of line =
with the others, he just had to ask for a new message board area to be made=
 or those interested just carried it on  thru private messages the others i=
nterested in got when
 they logged in. 
In somewhat the words of Den=
nis Miller.....I could be wrong but this is just my opinion.
 
George  =
     the MadHemi Roaster of CNY
----- Original Message ----
From:=
 miKe mcKoffee 
To: homeroast=
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 9:54:29 AM
Subject: RE: +Home Coffee=
 Roasting Mailing List Rules / OT posts (LONG post)
Please also note S=
M's "official" request below to not only limit OT but also
change/modify =
the subject line as appropriate! After Les's reminder a number
of both "O=
T:Linux..." and the "Bandwidth is getting a little wide" replies
were abo=
ut
 moka pots. Sure would seem appropriate and courteous to change
the =
subject line to reflect what the hell is being discussed as requested by
=
SM. 
Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer,=
 some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htm=
Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must=
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenm=
ent
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone =
before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.or=g/HomeRoast/ 
>

7) From: Coffeenut
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
If I were outside of this List being asked to access the effectiveness of
the members always staying on topic, I'd have to say it basically looks like
failed attempt after failed attempt.  This particular issue has come and
gone on this List for years and will continue IMO.  This is no criticism of
the List, it Moderators or the generous folks at Sweet Marias.  List
Moderators don't get paid to Moderate, they are volunteers who care enough
to assist Tom with the List.  So, as such, nothing is gained in challenging
them when they are attempting to help Tom enforce the List rules.  By now,
we have all likely participated on various lists for years.  One thing I
feel is true.every List must have some place for OT conversation.  If it is
not provided, then it will pop-up anyway.
As an insider who cares about this List, I have to say that we are seeing
nothing more than "human nature".  How many casual conversations among
several people remain on topic all the time?  People, by our nature want to
relate in a variety of ways and it's really impossible to always stay on one
topic in an open list like this one.  I don't think it can be done and we
just jerk the List around back and forth trying to reset that nature.  It
would take some kind of stringent enforcement to attempt to force the List
to be compliant and always be on topic.  I choose to just sort my messages
by "conversation" in Outlook and simply delete those that I don't want to
read.  I wouldn't have time to always read the volume of messages generated
on this List each day even if they were all on topic.  If I can't tolerate
spending a couple minutes deleting conversation threads, then I can
unsubscribe and go spend those minutes somewhere else.  That seems a lot
easier to me than trying to get everyone to follow rules that IMO really
cannot be enforced with the List under current conditions.
Just my 2-cents,
Rick

8) From: Kevin
Gmail will automatically sort messages by threads.  If anyone would
like an invitation to gmail (I believe you still need an invite to get
a gmail account) I will gladly send one.  I have 91 gmail invites
left.  Just email me off list and let me know.
-- 
My home coffee roasting blog:http://homecoffeeroastblog.blogspot.com/Kevin

9) From: Floyd Lozano
As Rick is saying, it's typical once people start to see each other as
'friends' that topics will wander away from one specific line and become
more casual and conversational.  There are just a ton of people that read
the list and don't want to be friends, they just want to know and hear abou=
t
coffee and coffee stuff.  So keep your friendship crap to yourself and talk
coffee!  ;)
-F
On 2/23/07, Coffeenut  wrote:
<Snip>
f
<Snip>
ike
<Snip>
of
<Snip>
h
<Snip>
ng
<Snip>
,
<Snip>
t is
<Snip>
to
<Snip>
one
<Snip>
t
<Snip>
s
<Snip>
ed
<Snip>
e
<Snip>

10) From: Larry Johnson
I didn't use an invite. I just signed up.
On 2/23/07, Kevin  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Larry J
"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."
  - Flannery O'Connor

11) From: Leo Zick
This is a multipart message in MIME format.
Im confused as to why a deliberate email requesting rules to be followed has
again deviated to OT.
If OT is your vice, check out www.offtopic.com
Thatll kill your day!
From: Floyd Lozano [mailto:fplozano] 
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 10:35 AM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Home Coffee Roasting Mailing List Rules / OT posts (LONG post)
As Rick is saying, it's typical once people start to see each other as
'friends' that topics will wander away from one specific line and become
more casual and conversational.  There are just a ton of people that read
the list and don't want to be friends, they just want to know and hear about
coffee and coffee stuff.  So keep your friendship crap to yourself and talk
coffee!  ;) 
-F
On 2/23/07, Coffeenut  wrote: 
If I were outside of this List being asked to access the effectiveness of
the members always staying on topic, I'd have to say it basically looks like
failed attempt after failed attempt.  This particular issue has come and
gone on this List for years and will continue IMO.  This is no criticism of
the List, it Moderators or the generous folks at Sweet Marias.  List
Moderators don't get paid to Moderate, they are volunteers who care enough
to assist Tom with the List.  So, as such, nothing is gained in challenging
them when they are attempting to help Tom enforce the List rules.  By now,
we have all likely participated on various lists for years.  One thing I
feel is true.every List must have some place for OT conversation.  If it is
not provided, then it will pop-up anyway. 
As an insider who cares about this List, I have to say that we are seeing
nothing more than "human nature".  How many casual conversations among
several people remain on topic all the time?  People, by our nature want to
relate in a variety of ways and it's really impossible to always stay on one
topic in an open list like this one.  I don't think it can be done and we
just jerk the List around back and forth trying to reset that nature.  It
would take some kind of stringent enforcement to attempt to force the List
to be compliant and always be on topic.  I choose to just sort my messages
by "conversation" in Outlook and simply delete those that I don't want to
read.  I wouldn't have time to always read the volume of messages generated
on this List each day even if they were all on topic.  If I can't tolerate
spending a couple minutes deleting conversation threads, then I can
unsubscribe and go spend those minutes somewhere else.  That seems a lot
easier to me than trying to get everyone to follow rules that IMO really
cannot be enforced with the List under current conditions. 
Just my 2-cents,
Rick

12) From:
Rick,
well said. true. this goes on all the time and it will never stop because we are human.
we do relate through casual conversations.
ginny
<Snip>

13) From: Kevin
The list has become a virtual coffee house (which I enjoy).  I'd
wadger the net affect is more sales for SM...
-- 
My home coffee roasting blog:http://homecoffeeroastblog.blogspot.com/Kevin

14) From:
I was not going to jump in here but if all the folks, who HATE THE OFF TOPIC S...
would simply shut up there would be a he;ll of a lot less. 
There is more noise from those who do not understand what delete means concerning OT that OT grunters take days and days and days to stop while if simply left alone it goes away all by it's little self.
ginny
---- miKe mcKoffee  wrote: 
<Snip>


HomeRoast Digest