HomeRoast Digest


Topic: IR2 Tips (65 msgs / 1808 lines)
1) From: Coffee Kid
Greetings all,
About a year ago a bunch of us new users of the IR2 wor=
ked out some of the kinks of the IR2 and posted it on the board.  I haven't=
 seen these tips on the board for awhile so I thought I would throw them ou=
t to everybody.
 
1.  The IR2 has a preset for every roast that you can=
not override.  The first 3 minutes roast at '350,  after that it will be 3 =
minutes into whatever roast you programmed.
 
2.  There are really only=
 5 temperature settings (even though you can program in 5 degree increments=
)
 
'350-'389 programmed temp = the same output temperature
'390-'4=
39 programmed temp = the same output temp
'440-'469 programmed temp ==
 the same output temp
'470-'485           "            "          "      =
        "
 
What does all this mean?  There is no difference in the hea=
t output or fan speed if you program the temp for '390, '439 or anything in=
 between.  Check it out for yourself.  Use the onboard thermometer which sh=
ows the temperature, post fan, before it hits the beans.
 
Think in ter=
ms of 5 temp settings (really only 4 because '325-'350 I never use)
 
w=
arm up='350 programmed
Get into first crack range = '400 programmed=
First crack and beyond (dependent on ambient temp) = '440 programmed=
Into second crack and beyond (dependent on ambient temp) = '470 progra=
mmed
 
I have two test profiles I use.  One for light roasts and one fo=
r dark. (I then change times according to how the beans respond)
 
Ligh=
t roast:
4 min @ 350
2 min @ 400
4 min @ 440
I usually stop somewhe=
re in the 3rd stage without making it to the end of my programmed time.
 =
Dark roast:
4 min @ 350
2 min @ 400
2 - 3 min @ 440
4 min @ 470=
Again, I usually stop somewhere in the 4th stage without making it to th=
e end of my programmed time.
 
I time first crack then try to program i=
n desired 1st crack results by adjusting time.  If I am going into 2nd crac=
k I further refine the program.
 
3. Room temperature obviously changes=
 everything and it is difficult to fine tune between a morning and afternoo=
n roast if you are outside (let alone winter and summer).
 
4. Final Ti=
p:
You cannot add time to the roast if you have entered your final progra=
mmed stage.  So, if you think you may need extra time in the roast, do it b=
efore the IR2 makes it into the final programmed stage.  Also, adding time =
will only add time to the last stage of the roast.  Adding time at the begi=
nning will not extend earlier stages (I think this is in the instructions).=
 
Cheers all,
Tom=
Need Mail bonding?=
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
ht=
tp://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091

2) From: Vicki Smith
Tom,
I am compiling an IR2 tip sheet for my website, to supplement my own 
take on the IR2. Can I use this part, properly credited, and with a link 
to you if you wish? I wouldn't want to use your list handle, as 
generally, that is Mark Prince's on-line name.
My website is:http://coffeecrone.com/roasting/iroast2.htmVicki">http://www.coffeecrone.comMy IR2 page is:http://coffeecrone.com/roasting/iroast2.htmVicki
Coffee Kid wrote:
<Snip>

3) From: Vicki Smith
Oops. I meant for this to go off-list
Vicki Smith wrote:
<Snip>

4) From: Clay Spence
Tom,
On 1/20/07, Coffee Kid  wrote:
4. Final Tip:
<Snip>
Really? I've added time in the last stage on my IR1. The 2 might be
different, though.
Clay

5) From: Jim Anderson
As for adding time in the last stage, I have found that if you only
use three stages you can add time during the last stage. Once you have
entered a fourth or fifth stage, you are locked into whatever time is
programed. This is with a IR2 that is a couple of years old.
Jim
On 1/20/07, Clay Spence  wrote:
<Snip>

6) From: Carole Zatz
Thanks Coffee Kid, that information is essential and Hearthware told
me the same thing about the first 3 minutes when I was struggling with
my new IR2.
The other bit of information that I read somewhere regards the fan speeds:
High fan for all temp settings 320F - 385F
Medium fan for 390F – 410F
Low fan for 415F – 485F
Also, I don't think these temp settings really mean that's what's
truly happening. Those of us with hotter IR2s need to run at much
lower settings for longer times in order to get a decent roast. I had
to drastically change my profiles when I got my IR2 replaced. It then
becomes a balancing act where you end up using a too high a fan speed
but you can't go to a higher temp and force a slower fan because it
will 'run away' from you and speed rapidly into (and through) second
crack. These hotter IR2s are very tricky!
My wish would be that you could change the profile on the fly (like
with the Gene Cafe). Course, that's probably one of the reasons that
the Gene Cafe costs so much more.

7) From: Vicki Smith
I don't know about the rest of you IR2 owners, but the more I read about 
the various hoops we have to go through and how much the machines vary, 
the more annoyed I get. There is clearly something very wrong with their 
quality control, or with the basic mechanism.
I can understand why there might be general tricks and tips, but I can't 
understand why some machines run so hot that the presets are basically 
unusable.
vicki
Carole Zatz wrote:
<Snip>

8) From: Les
I have refused to talk about these machines, but you sound so frustrated.  I
can answer your question - cheap parts!
Les
On 1/20/07, Vicki Smith  wrote:
<Snip>

9) From: TERRY TITSWORTH
I'm not so sure that the labor portion doesn't also have something to do
with the issue.
It's getting to where all the products having to do with electronics are
tossed together at some assembly line that is concerned with the quantity
and not the quality. Even in the retail end they will toss you a new unit to
replace something you have that doesn't work with very few questions about
what went wrong. I guess if they produce 5 out of 10 items that works,
cheaply enough, their happy, and still make a profit.
But I am having a nice cup of Guat, decaf that I roasted yesterday evening
in my IR2.
TerryT
On 1/20/07, Les  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Start HOT and work your way Down...
Peppers AND Coffee.
[|:{O....[|:{U...
(I'm the tall guy in the middle)

10) From: Vicki Smith
My current IR2 is actually a champ, but I read and hear so much from 
folks whose roasters produce charcoal in 6-8 minutes.Then there is this 
belief that we are supposed to drive ourselves nuts trying to work 
around machines that are clearly just plain lousy. If everyone who 
discovered that they have one of those "hot" machines returned them, and 
did it again and again, until they got one that ran in such a way that 
you could get a reasonably timed roast out of it, maybe Hearthware would 
work on quality improvement.
My 1st machine started out just fine, but got wonky (in the other 
direction) within 15 roasts. With Tom and Maria's help, I got it replaced.
Vicki
Les wrote:
<Snip>

11) From: Ronnie Kramer
Thanks Tom and Carole,
   
  This info together helps to explain a lot.  I have a silly question about fan speed though.
   
  Does a higher fan speed heat up the beans faster, if the temp is the same?  Or does a slower fan speed heat up the beans faster?
   
  According to Tom, setting the IR2 anywhere from 390 to 439 will produce the same heat setting.  According to Carole, the fan speed will be faster from 390-410 and slow down with settings of 415 and  up will slow down the fan.
   
  So if I use a temp setting of 410 verses 415, the slower fans speed at 415 will heat the beans much faster than 410?  And 410 might as well be 390?
Carole Zatz  wrote:
  Thanks Coffee Kid, that information is essential and Hearthware told
me the same thing about the first 3 minutes when I was struggling with
my new IR2.
The other bit of information that I read somewhere regards the fan speeds:
High fan for all temp settings 320F - 385F
Medium fan for 390F – 410F
Low fan for 415F – 485F
Also, I don't think these temp settings really mean that's what's
truly happening. Those of us with hotter IR2s need to run at much
lower settings for longer times in order to get a decent roast. I had
to drastically change my profiles when I got my IR2 replaced. It then
becomes a balancing act where you end up using a too high a fan speed
but you can't go to a higher temp and force a slower fan because it
will 'run away' from you and speed rapidly into (and through) second
crack. These hotter IR2s are very tricky!
My wish would be that you could change the profile on the fly (like
with the Gene Cafe). Course, that's probably one of the reasons that
the Gene Cafe costs so much more.Ronnie Kramer
Austin, TX

12) From: Carole Zatz
Vicki Smith wrote:
<Snip>
I agree with you completely. The real problem with doing this is that
one is out of a roaster for so long. It's nearly two weeks between
when you send out the bad one, they get it, they acknowledge they have
it, they send out a new one, and .... you finally get the replacement.
When my first one went bad, they sent me a replacement that had stuck
buttons(!). How this passed QC I have no idea. The next one they sent
me was a glass chamber and not the power unit(!). The third one they
sent me runs hot. They just wore me down and I ended up keeping it.
After several emails traded with them regarding not being able to use
my previous profiles, they helped me come up with something that works
fairly well and then quit responding to my profile-tuning emails. But
it's not as good as the first one.
This has cost them at least one sale. I recommended to an electrician
who was doing some work in my house when I was roasting to not buy the
IR2 and instead look at other methods. I gave him several web sites to
look at, plus the link to this list to help him with his decision.
I still love the idea of an adjustable roaster that I can use indoors.
Saving pennies for (most likely) a Gene Cafe. At this point, I just
want to get my money out of the IR2.
End of rant. Thanks for letting me vent!

13) From: Phil Bergman
I've had my IR2 for over a month and have done about 40 roasts.  Some good,
some terrible.  I've noticed that, in general, the probe temperature seems
to be low no matter what I do.  I read that (in fact) temps may be warmer
than reading. But, overall I am frustrated with the machine because it seems
to do other than what I program.
So, I tried something new.  I set it at 485 for 15 minutes (time full).  I
noted that the machine still went through its own pre-programed 3 minute
cycles.  It held at about 285 for three minutes.  Then the fan speed went
down (at exactly 3 minutes) and the temps went to about 320-325 for three
minutes.  Then the fan speed lowered and it went to about 345-350 for three
minutes.  Then the fan speed lowered again and it finally went above 410
degrees F. for the remainder of the roast (I stopped it before full time was
used)  So, I think your programing may in some way set the temps, but the
machine has a mind of its own and heat goes up when fan speed goes down.  I
do think a higher temp is reached on the last two fan speeds when you set
high, but you don't have total control on things.
Phil

14) From: David Schooley
1. I suspect that Hearthware is making adjustments to the design as  
time goes by. Coffee Kid is right in that there are a limited number  
of available temperatures, but where he has two available  
temperatures below 439F, I can program temperatures of 360F, 370F,  
400F, and 415F and get different readout temperatures at every point.  
I can even get a temperature change at the 2-minute mark with the  
change from 360F to 370F. (That is why I think there is a minimum to  
the temperature during the first three minutes, but not a maximum.
2. I also suspect that voltage differences are at least partially  
responsible for the observed differences in iRoast behavior. I would  
end up with a French roast+++ if I took beans to the full 11:30 of  
Preset 2. My household voltage also sits at 126-127 volts, which is  
the upper limit of what ComEd specifies. (I should probably request a  
new tap setting.) Someone with a household voltage at the lower end  
of the range would get longer roasts. We will never know how much of  
a difference it makes until someone does the appropriate experiments.  
While Vicki found an improvement with iRoast #3, it is conceivable  
that her local electric utility did something at around the same time.
3. The iRoast is capable of roasting excellent coffee. Getting  
excellent results requires some time and effort on the part of the  
person doing the roasting. The iRoast is not alone in this regard.
On Jan 20, 2007, at 9:51 PM, Vicki Smith wrote:
<Snip>

15) From: Vicki Smith
I think this is true if you get a reasonable one. But, if you are 
unlucky enough to get a "hot" one, there is not much you can do, other 
than return it.
David Schooley wrote:
<Snip>

16) From: raymanowen
From the FAQ's on the Hearthware/iRoast site comes:
" Why do the push buttons keep getting stuck?
  - This may be due to the misalignment of the button, and sometimes if the
edge of button is pushed in and tilted, the plastic may rub each other and
won't release. We recommend pushing at the center of the button only.  - There
are 6 crosshead screws located on outer ring of the bottom of the power
base, 3 exposed, and 3 inside the rubber feet. First, remove all the screws,
and twist and adjust the housing/body against the bottom base, the
housing/body and the bottom base are two parts, then you might be able to
get the buttons aligned with the switches. Then you can put back all the
screws.  - Another alternative is adjusting the tightness of the 6 screws."
In my Air Force days, we had a rather crude term re: reading the manual. But
the manual was outdated as soon as the manufacturer made a small Engineering
Change. Then we had to change all the manuals and document the change.
For an airplane or engine accessory, the task was monumental but critically
necessary.
With the wide internet accessibility, consumer appliance manufacturers often
publish changes and even entire manuals online.
The computer is your friend.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
"The indisputable truth is that no coffee is fresh if it isn't fresh
roasted." - - Martin Diedrich

17) From: raymanowen
I always wanted an iRoast, but the Wagner HG and my Celtic Critic's Kitchen
Aid mixer bowl cost less and accomplish more.
It is illogical that Hearthware would deliberately shoot themselves in the
foot with a faulty design or shoddy workmanship, although the latter was the
bane, IMHO, of the Solis Maestro grinder line.
[Kyle Anderson, Baratza President, bent over backwards and solved my grinder
problem.]
Is your line voltage correct while you are roasting? What voltage does the
manual or the equipment tag on the roaster body specify?
Even though they recommend the 4" flexible Aluminum vent tubing may be added
to the roaster, it's a HUGE MISTAKE. It's a Monumental Air Dam, trust me! It
would be better if you trim the excess length and extend the length
completely rather than leave it compressed.
Serpentine bends and curves look neat, but they're Death to air flow. Try a
roast without any duct added.
Hearthware supplies the roaster. If you can't supply the right power, you
also have no complaint.
But it's Their Fault it won't run correctly with the wrong power. Pass the
extension cord, please.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
-- 
"...the great enemy of truth is very often not the lie--deliberate,
contrived and dishonest--but the myth--persistent, persuasive--of our
forebears. We enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of
thought."* - -John F. Kennedy, Yale, 6-11-1962*

18) From: David Schooley
How hot is hot?
On Jan 21, 2007, at 1:13 PM, Vicki Smith wrote:
<Snip>

19) From: Vicki Smith
My perspective as an IR2 owner is that out of the box, you should be 
able to expect a *reasonable* roast, not one nuanced for a particular 
bean, using preset 2. Your power has to be spot-on, as Ray so 
colourfully described, but once that is verified, if using Preset 2 
(which you would think Heathware designed to work for a great many 
beans) the roaster should not create a blackened mess in 6-8 minutes, 
not should it fail to reach first crack in the same space of time.
I do reach my vent up as high as it can go. I took a new picture, as 
when I took the one on my website, the vent was just wrong. After 
reading Ray's remark, I cut a bunch of the vent off, which means I don't 
have to stand on the counter to get the vent to go straight up. Thanks Ray.
It seems to me if a bendless vent is possible, that problem should be 
non-existent. Honestly, my roaster worked fine bend and all, but what do 
I know, I roast most of my beans in a bread machine.
My picture with shortened vent: http://www.coffeecrone.com/images/2007_01/roaster.jpgvicki
raymanowen wrote:
<Snip>

20) From: Vicki Smith
It's tempting to get formulaic and say that If you've got blackened oily 
beans in less than 8 minutes on preset 2, my sense is that your roaster 
is then officially hot. OK, I said it. I suppose it doesn't make it true.
As I said in an earlier post. My sense is that the machine is designed 
so that folks can get a good roast out of Preset 2 for most beans with 
perhaps some shortening of time, but not so much that you go from green 
to charcoal in no time flat.
vicki
David Schooley wrote:
<Snip>

21) From: raymanowen
I always wanted an iRoast, but the Wagner HG and my Celtic Critic's Kitchen
Aid mixer bowl cost less and accomplish more.
It is illogical that Hearthware would deliberately shoot themselves in the
foot with a faulty design or shoddy workmanship, although the latter was the
bane, IMHO, of the Solis Maestro grinder line.
[Kyle Anderson, Baratza President, bent over backwards and solved my grinder
problem.]
-- 
"...the great enemy of truth is very often not the lie--deliberate,
contrived and dishonest--but the myth--persistent, persuasive--of our
forebears. We enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of
thought."*
John F. Kennedy, Yale, 6-11-1962*

22) From: David Schooley
My iRoast does not behave too much differently than your first two  
hot ones, and I am not exhausting into a vent hose. It is possible  
that the hot ones, your two and mine, and whoever else's, are the  
ones that are behaving as designed. The i-roast web site states quite  
clearly in the FAQ, somewhere above Ray's snippet, that  Preset 2 is  
designed to provide a dark roast. It is also stated somewhere that  
adding the vent hose will cause the roaster to run hotter.
I have only used Preset 2 twice. The data sheet from one of those  
roasts is available at the URL below. From looking at the results and  
knowing what I now know about iRoast temperatures, this roast hit  
first crack at around 3 minutes and should have been dumped at the 5- 
minute mark or sooner. I let the roast go for 9 minutes, with the  
results as shown.
As I said before, my 127 volt supply, compared to the rated 120  
volts, may be playing a role. I think the real problem is that Preset  
2 is not a good profile to achieve a City-to-Full City roast in 7 or  
8 minutes. That does not mean the roaster is defective, but that  
Hearthware needs to rethink the temperature settings for Preset 2 to  
better align it with what customers expect. For what it is worth, I  
do not think your expectations are out of line at all. If Hearthware  
is going to include presets, it is to their advantage to develop  
profiles that work well for the more discriminating users.
There is a reason I have only used Preset 2 twice. With my own  
profiles, I can get a City roast at 7-8 minutes and FC at around 9  
minutes or more. It took some effort to get to that point, and Tom's  
information on the SM web site was vital to me being able to do that.
On Jan 21, 2007, at 3:45 PM, Vicki Smith wrote:
<Snip>

23) From: bb
To me the bottom line is that the machine should theoretically be capable of
a 15min roast which would result in a very dark roast, but not a burnt
roast.  So, I think it's fair to think that I might make it to about 10min
going for the roasts I'd like.
On preset 2, I had burnt (not dark roasted) beans within 6min.  I
incidentally took the advice of watching a batch go through the full cycle,
and hadn't intended to drink the outcome.

24) From: Ross
Bb and all,
I have been roasting now for only a few months with my IR-2 and have noticed 
that ambient temp and voltage do make all the difference between a hot 
roaster and a "normal" roaster.   I live in Tucson and we have had a cold 
spell which has allowed me for the first time to exceed a 10 minute roast. 
I guess the 15 minutes is for the guys in North Dakota or Alaska or with 
marginal power.  When it's 80 degrees outside and I use a hot (higher 
voltage) outlet I have a really hot machine a 5 minute cracker with first 
and second in immediate succession.  I guess the real answer is to control 
the voltage or get up early for the cooler outside air temp if you want that 
10 to 15 min roast.  The advice to just keep the temp rising smoothly 
through 1st and be poised and ready on the cool button is the tack I'm 
taking at this time, however I must confess I am probably wearing my fingers 
out programming temperatures that are all in the same band.  As for the 
rumor of only 4 temp bands---I think it would be (or is) a cruel joke to 
have us tweaking temperatures at 5 degree intervals and pulling our hair out 
when the results don't vary.  If that's true someone at Heathware should 
fess up and uncomplicate our lives before they get eggs thrown their way.  I 
have reread my manual and it says nothing about the 350/3minute default warm 
up or the four programmable temp bands -- where are people getting this 
info?  Not that I'm saying it's wrong, I just wonder where the info comes 
from, is it measured by those who have installed thermocouples and have 
discovered those constants?  Or is it some insider info or what?
Thanks,
Ross

25) From: David Schooley
I think 15 minutes is unrealistic. 5-7 minutes to first crack is  
reasonable.
I have posted a nearly complete set of iRoast logs on the web.
 gets you the  
spreadsheets I used to log the roasts. There are a few blank versions  
I use as templates and a couple of text files.
 gets you a  
bunch of reports like the one I posted earlier. There is a  
spreadsheet for every report that shows a graph, but I did not always  
link the spreadsheet back to the appropriate report. You can always  
find the right spreadsheet from the coffee and the date.
On Jan 21, 2007, at 7:11 PM, bb wrote:
<Snip>

26) From: Vicki Smith
I agree, David. Nice job with the logs.
BTW, because my IR2 is one of the well behaved ones, I often roast my 
first attempts with a new bean in it before going for the gusto with a 
pound or so in my bread machine.  It's nice to be able to try a few 
different roast levels, using a smallish amount of beans first.
Vicki
David Schooley wrote:
<Snip>

27) From: David Gorton
This is amazing information. I wish I had read it about two weeks ago when I
was looking for a home roaster. I just purchased an IR2. So far, my longest
roast has taken about 6 minutes. None of them taste good. I probably would
have chose something different.
I have been following the suggested profile that tom publishes for a city+
roast. I am lucky if I break 6 minutes on the total roast. If I pay
attention, I think there is about 30 seconds between the first and second
crack.
I am playing with the profile so that there is the warm up phase, then a
quick push up for the first crack, then back down to the warm up temperature
to hold the roast a little longer. Also, I have noticed that I am beyond the
cinnamon color when the first crack is starting. Does this seem right?
Thanks,
David Gorton (newbie)
On 1/21/07, Vicki Smith  wrote:
<Snip>

28) From: David Schooley
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Take a look at my logs. There are a few warm up, hit the beans hard,  
and cool down plots, but most have the temperature increase from the  
beginning to the end. The latter #3, #5 and #7 profiles have worked  
really well for me. The green lines are temperatures taken with a  
thermocouple inserted into the bean mass to see how the different  
profiles affect the beans. The profiles with a 5-minute warmup,  
slight increase for the roast, with a bit extra at the end for second  
crack are derived from Tom's profiles on the tip sheets. The  
breakthrough, if you can call it that, was when I matched the readout  
temperatures instead of trying to match the programmed temperatures.  
(The programmed temperatures on Tom's review roaster were running as  
much as 50F higher than the readout temperatures, so programming to  
his programmed temperatures will roast too hot if your readout and  
programmed temperatures are a better match.) The programmed  
temperatures are in blue on the plots and are also listed in the  
temperature column on the report. Only use them as a guideline. You  
really want to match the red lines. How the programmed temperatures  
(blue) match the readout temperatures (red) is where the voltage and  
temperature, and perhaps manufacturing, variations come into play.
Another thing to notice is that the red lines and the blue lines  
match up fairly well. Even though my voltage is high, the roaster is  
mostly doing what it is told. Do not read much, if anything, into the  
fact that the readout temperature is always a bit higher than the  
programmed temperature. That was intentional for the most part once I  
worked out which readout temperatures were possible for various  
programmed temperatures.
Here is where I think the "running hot" idea is a bit off base. Just  
maybe a bug was fixed in the roaster to make it more closely match  
the programmed temperatures, where initially there was a bigger  
difference. (I think Tom had a pre-production unit.) If that is the  
case, then perhaps the presets were not adjusted to compensate. (Now  
that I look at it again, Preset 2 starts to look really good if you  
lower all of the programmed temperatures by 50 degrees or so.)
The labeling on the reports needs to be changed. "Roaster Preset:"  
should really be "Stored Profile:" The numbers correspond to the slot  
in the roaster memory. Updated curves have an 'A' or 'B'.
As I said before, the iRoast is capable of excellent roasts, you just  
have to ignore Preset #2.
On Jan 21, 2007, at 9:30 PM, David Gorton wrote:
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Take a look at my logs. =
There are a few warm up, hit the beans hard, and cool down plots, but =
most have the temperature increase from the beginning to the end. The =
latter #3, #5 and #7 profiles have worked really well for me. The green =
lines are temperatures taken with a thermocouple inserted into the bean =
mass to see how the different profiles affect the beans. The profiles =
with a 5-minute warmup, slight increase for the roast, with a bit extra =
at the end for second crack are derived from Tom's profiles on the tip =
sheets. The breakthrough, if you can call it that, was when I matched =
the readout temperatures instead of trying to match the programmed =
temperatures. (The programmed temperatures on Tom's review roaster were =
running as much as 50F higher than the readout temperatures, so =
programming to his programmed temperatures will roast too hot if your =
readout and programmed temperatures are a better match.) The =
programmed temperatures are in blue on the plots and are also listed in =
the temperature column on the report. Only use them as a guideline. You =
really want to match the red lines. How the programmed temperatures =
(blue) match the readout temperatures (red) is where the voltage and =
temperature, and perhaps manufacturing, variations come into =
play. 
Another thing to notice is = that the red lines and the blue lines match up fairly well. Even though = my voltage is high, the roaster is mostly doing what it is told. Do not = read much, if anything, into the fact that the readout temperature is = always a bit higher than the programmed temperature. That was = intentional for the most part once I worked out which readout = temperatures were possible for various programmed = temperatures.
Here is where I think the = "running hot" idea is a bit off base. Just maybe a bug was fixed in the = roaster to make it more closely match the programmed temperatures, where = initially there was a bigger difference. (I think Tom had a = pre-production unit.) If that is the case, then perhaps the presets were = not adjusted to compensate. (Now that I look at it again, Preset 2 = starts to look really good if you lower all of the programmed = temperatures by 50 degrees or so.)
The labeling on the reports = needs to be changed. "Roaster Preset:" should really be "Stored = Profile:" The numbers correspond to the slot in the roaster memory. = Updated curves have an 'A' or 'B'. 
As I said before, the = iRoast is capable of excellent roasts, you just have to ignore Preset = #2. 
On Jan 21, 2007, = at 9:30 PM, David Gorton wrote:
This is = amazing information. I wish I had read it about two weeks ago when I was = looking for a home roaster. I just purchased an IR2. So far, my longest = roast has taken about 6 minutes. None of them taste good. I probably = would have chose something different. I have been following the = suggested profile that tom publishes for a city+ roast. I am lucky if I = break 6 minutes on the total roast. If I pay attention, I think there is = about 30 seconds between the first and second crack. I am = playing with the profile so that there is the warm up phase, then a = quick push up for the first crack, then back down to the warm up = temperature to hold the roast a little longer. Also, I have noticed that = I am beyond the cinnamon color when the first crack is starting. Does = this seem right? Thanks, David Gorton = (newbie) On 1/21/07, Vicki Smith <vicki.smith> = wrote: I agree, David. Nice job with the logs. BTW, because my IR2 = is one of the well behaved ones, I often roast my first attempts = with a new bean in it before going for the gusto with a pound or so = in my bread machine.  It's nice to be able to try a few different = roast levels, using a smallish amount of beans first. = Vicki David Schooley wrote: > I think 15 minutes is = unrealistic. 5-7 minutes to first crack is > = reasonable. > > I have posted a nearly complete set of = iRoast logs on the = web. > = homeroast mailing list http://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast To change your = personal list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to = http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings = --Apple-Mail-1-12584772--

29) From: Vicki Smith
I disagree. Once we begin customizing roasts, preset 2 may largely go by 
the wayside, but for seeing if a new roaster, out of the box, is a 
lemon, taking 150 grams of beans and running them through preset 2 will 
tell you if the roaster is defective. If you get charcoal at six or 
eight minutes, return the thing. If you never really get to first crack, 
return it.
And remember, even  "good" IR2s vary some one from the other. What works 
for me, with a particular bean, in my roaster, probably will not be 
exactly the same as what works for David in his machine. Heck, this 
morning I enjoyed some truly lovely Yirg just full of varietal taste, 
that came out of my IR2, using preset 2, and stopped 9 minutes into the 
roast at full city. I didn't use preset 2 when I roasted some yellow 
bourbon yesterday, that bean needs something different.
vicki
David Schooley wrote:
<Snip>

30) From: David Schooley
By your definition, my iRoast is defective, runs hot, is a lemon,  
whatever... because on May 3, 2006 I turned 115 grams of "Java  
Private Estate - Type Prince" into charcoal by using Preset 2 for 9  
minutes.
I have data from 100 or so additional roasts telling me that the  
roaster pretty much does as I tell it within the limits of the  
controller.  The May 3 roast even runs a bit cool for the first 6  
minutes or so. About 90 of those roasts were some of the best coffee  
I have ever had. Whether or not they were excellent could be a topic  
of discussion, but I was happy with them. In any case, the controller  
is doing its job, which is to control the temperature to something  
reasonably close to what I programmed into the machine. (Profiles  
#3A, #5A, #5B, #7A, and #7B show this really well.)
Given the data, there are two possible explanations for the burnt  
beans on May 3.
1. The roaster works fine. It does what it is supposed to do but the  
programmed temperatures for Preset 2 are too high even if they are  
what Hearthware intended.
2. The temperature readout is about 30 degrees too low, in which case  
the controller never has a chance because it gets bad data.
The first could be considered an error on the part of Hearthware but  
I would not consider it a manufacturing defect in the normal sense.  
The second is a design or manufacturing issue. The problem is that we  
do not have a good way to tell, i.e., we do not know with certainty  
that my machine is a lemon based on the results from Preset 2.  My  
solution is to ignore Preset 2 on the assumption that the temperature  
readout is correct. It may not be. My data even suggests that the air  
going into the chamber is hotter than what the temperature readout  
says. (I guess I need run the roaster without beans to see what the  
Fluke tells me.)
Vicki, because you currently have an iRoast that you like, your  
opportunity for Internet Glory is to record readout temperatures at  
30-second intervals during your next roast using Preset 2. That will  
tell us a lot.
On Jan 22, 2007, at 1:01 AM, Vicki Smith wrote:
<Snip>

31) From: derbyrm
I downloaded the first of the two, but couldn't un-zip it with WinZip 9.0. 
The file names contain "bad" characters.  Any suggestions?
Roger
derbyrmhttp://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm

32) From: David Schooley
The spreadsheets have dates in the names with dashes and slashes. I  
will have to fix that somehow. The other file should work.
On Jan 22, 2007, at 7:41 AM, derbyrm wrote:
<Snip>

33) From: Vicki Smith
How did you conclude this, David? There is a huge difference between 
charcoal at 150 grams between 6-8 minutes, and charcoal with 115 grams at 9.
v
David Schooley wrote:
<Snip>

34) From: bb
That makes sense.  You get better circulation with the smaller bean mass as
they don't heat up as quickly.

35) From: Vicki Smith
I will ignore the sarcasm, and type in a roast of 140 grams of Moka 
Kadir with both air inlet temps and thermocouple readings. I too keep a 
roasting log, though I no longer record every roast in this much detail. 
As I said, even machines you can really work with, and develop profiles 
with, can be just plain different from each other.
Time Remaining  Inlet   Thermocouple
11:30 (start)
11		277			160
10:30	      316		      209	
10		325			 256
9:30	       335			286
9		 340		          305	
8:30	      370			326
8		383			  343
7:30	     392			367
7		397			   368
6:30	     400			380
6		412			   401
5:30          408                        407
5                405			   416
4:30           405                       422
4                 405                      429
3:30           405                       435
3                 405                       430
2:39           405                       440 (end)
First crack was at 6.52 minutes in
I pulled the roast as 2nd was beginning, no oil, even after resting.
I'm sure the thermocouple position wasn't perfect, but I've always 
positioned it the same, so my data works for my roasting. YMMV.
David Schooley wrote:
<Snip>

36) From: Vicki Smith
After seeing the PDF files, I didn't feel like I needed to open the 
other one. Gawd I hate excel (says she who is married to a chartered 
accountant). As I said earlier, great job.
v
David Schooley wrote:
<Snip>

37) From: Ronnie Kramer
OK, I still know nothing, I'm still trying, and I've been reading at the IR2 site a little.  I tried putting Tom's (Coffee Kid) tips together with Carole's tips on fan speed and it did not help.  I read the following at the IR2 site regarding fan speed;
   
           Why does the machine seem to ramp up and down or "surge" during roasting?                    -    It is normal for the roaster to act that way. The reason why the roaster surges off and on is to keep the temperature where the user programmed it at. When the fan is blowing low, the temp is increasing, when the temp is blown high, the temp is decreasing. It is very hard for the roaster to stay at a consistent temp for long period of time. To help to stay as close as possible to the desire temp, the fan blows low and high depending on the ambient temp inside the roasting pot, the temp setting, and the amount of chaff that is produce from the roaster. Because of these variables, there is no pattern when the roaster surges on and off. 
  For example, if the temp is set at 420 F, the fan will blow low for most of the roast, when it gets above 420 F, it will start blowing high to get it back to 420 F. Also, within the first three minutes of any roaster or any roasting profiles, the temp will never go above 355 F and the fan will blow high during the first three minutes. The reason for this is to create an even roast. Every bean has different amounts of moisture. Even though it is very little, it is enough to create unevenness. So what the roaster does in the first three minutes, it is trying to sufficiently dry out all the beans so they will be at the same level
  So if Tom is right about only 5 temp outputs, it seems each temp setting is still useful and the temperature feedback controlls the fan speed.  E.g. if you set the ir2 for 390F and then 420F in the next stage, the temp output may remain the same, but the fan will slow down until you pass 420F.
   
  This would explain why (I can't remember who said) some people get best results when the fan cycles fast and slow repeatedly.  The feedback temp is very near the set temp.  If the fan never speeds back up, you haven't reached your set temp.  If it never slows back down after speeding up, your staying above the set temp.
   
  This seems verifiable when I look at my roast notes where I did note changes in fan speed.  I don't know if this will help anyone.  But I think I'll be recording fan speed changes as diligently as on-board temps from now on.
   
Coffee Kid  wrote:
           
  Greetings all,
   
  About a year ago a bunch of us new users of the IR2 worked out some of the kinks of the IR2 and posted it on the board.  I haven't seen these tips on the board for awhile so I thought I would throw them out to everybody.
   
  1.  The IR2 has a preset for every roast that you cannot override.  The first 3 minutes roast at '350,  after that it will be 3 minutes into whatever roast you programmed.
   
  2.  There are really only 5 temperature settings (even though you can program in 5 degree increments)
   
  '350-'389 programmed temp = the same output temperature
  '390-'439 programmed temp = the same output temp
  '440-'469 programmed temp = the same output temp
  '470-'485           "            "          "              "
   
  What does all this mean?  There is no difference in the heat output or fan speed if you program the temp for '390, '439 or anything in between.  Check it out for yourself.  Use the onboard thermometer which shows the temperature, post fan, before it hits the beans.
   
  Think in terms of 5 temp settings (really only 4 because '325-'350 I never use)
   
  warm up='350 programmed
  Get into first crack range = '400 programmed
  First crack and beyond (dependent on ambient temp) = '440 programmed
  Into second crack and beyond (dependent on ambient temp) = '470 programmed
   
  I have two test profiles I use.  One for light roasts and one for dark. (I then change times according to how the beans respond)
   
  Light roast:
  4 min @ 350
  2 min @ 400
  4 min @ 440
  I usually stop somewhere in the 3rd stage without making it to the end of my programmed time.
   
  Dark roast:
  4 min @ 350
  2 min @ 400
  2 - 3 min @ 440
  4 min @ 470
  Again, I usually stop somewhere in the 4th stage without making it to the end of my programmed time.
   
  I time first crack then try to program in desired 1st crack results by adjusting time.  If I am going into 2nd crack I further refine the program.
   
  3. Room temperature obviously changes everything and it is difficult to fine tune between a morning and afternoon roast if you are outside (let alone winter and summer).
   
  4. Final Tip:
  You cannot add time to the roast if you have entered your final programmed stage.  So, if you think you may need extra time in the roast, do it before the IR2 makes it into the final programmed stage.  Also, adding time will only add time to the last stage of the roast.  Adding time at the beginning will not extend earlier stages (I think this is in the instructions).
   
  Cheers all,
   
  Tom
   
---------------------------------
  The fish are biting.
Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
Ronnie Kramer
Austin, TX

38) From: miKe mcKoffee
(This post will be of absolutely no help for IR2 trials & tribulations) 
Ronnie's post illustrates why IMO the IR2 is a cheaply implemented rather
ineffective and imprecise way of controlling heat and hence roast profiles.
I mean, what the heck controls heat better controlling the "heater" or the
"fan"! (Trick question, answer is controlling both with primary heat control
via heat source:-)
This is not to say with trial an error half way decent workable IR2 profiles
cannot be deviced, though highly likely not very directly duplicatable
between different IR2s.
Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/	From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Ronnie Kramer
	Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 7:18 AM
	
	OK, I still know nothing, I'm still trying, and I've been reading at
the IR2 site a little.  I tried putting Tom's (Coffee Kid) tips together
with Carole's tips on fan speed and it did not help.  I read the following
at the IR2 site regarding fan speed;
	 
	  Why does the machine seem to ramp up and down or "surge" during
roasting?	
		
		-	 	It is normal for the roaster to act that
way. The reason why the roaster surges off and on is to keep the temperature
where the user programmed it at. When the fan is blowing low, the temp is
increasing, when the temp is blown high, the temp is decreasing. It is very
hard for the roaster to stay at a consistent temp for long period of time.
To help to stay as close as possible to the desire temp, the fan blows low
and high depending on the ambient temp inside the roasting pot, the temp
setting, and the amount of chaff that is produce from the roaster. Because
of these variables, there is no pattern when the roaster surges on and off. 
	For example, if the temp is set at 420 F, the fan will blow low for
most of the roast, when it gets above 420 F, it will start blowing high to
get it back to 420 F. Also, within the first three minutes of any roaster or
any roasting profiles, the temp will never go above 355 F and the fan will
blow high during the first three minutes. The reason for this is to create
an even roast. Every bean has different amounts of moisture. Even though it
is very little, it is enough to create unevenness. So what the roaster does
in the first three minutes, it is trying to sufficiently dry out all the
beans so they will be at the same level
		
	So if Tom is right about only 5 temp outputs, it seems each temp
setting is still useful and the temperature feedback controlls the fan
speed.  E.g. if you set the ir2 for 390F and then 420F in the next stage,
the temp output may remain the same, but the fan will slow down until you
pass 420F.
	 
	This would explain why (I can't remember who said) some people get
best results when the fan cycles fast and slow repeatedly.  The feedback
temp is very near the set temp.  If the fan never speeds back up, you
haven't reached your set temp.  If it never slows back down after speeding
up, your staying above the set temp.
	 
	This seems verifiable when I look at my roast notes where I did note
changes in fan speed.  I don't know if this will help anyone.  But I think
I'll be recording fan speed changes as diligently as on-board temps from now
on.

39) From: Michael Wade
David:
Back before I lost patience with my iR2 and switched to HGDB I did some 
measuring of the air inlet temperature with a Fluke thermocouple adapter on 
an old Fluke 12.  I found that with the bead positioned just below the inlet 
holes the temperature would range about 70 F higher than the panel display. 
This is physically close to the roaster's temperature bead which economics 
would dictate is the only temperature sensor the roaster has, leading me to 
theorize that the manufacturer has introduced a differential to cause the 
panel display to more closely approximate the roast chamber temp.  (perhaps 
this differential varies from machine to machine?)
Leaving the manufacturer's undocumented default programming for the first 
2 - 3 minutes out of the picture, my unit would follow the programmed 
temperature pretty accurately as long as I programmed it near one of the few 
temperatures the machine is able to maintain.  For instance if I programmed 
400F I would get 400 - 405F on the readout.  My problem with the unit is 
that I spent considerable time trying to develop a steadily rising profile, 
but there seemed to be a gap in the available temperature control points. 
(a large jump from 415 to 450?)  I don't remember the details and don't have 
time at the moment to review my notes.
I could have made do with the unit's temperature quirks had I been able to 
hear the cracks, but alas, maybe one or two pops of first was all I could 
hear.  I have enjoyed HGDB roasting immensely and have learned far more 
about roasting in a few months than I ever did in several years of HW 
Precision and iR2 roasting.  Which is not to say I didn't enjoy some pretty 
fine coffee, but I was never even close to being in control of the process.
Saving up for a programmable Hottop, since Jeffrey Pawlan's CCR is out of 
the question.  Now, if I hit the lottery...
Michael Wade

40) From: Ronnie Kramer
Sorry for the simple question, but what is HGDB?
Michael Wade  wrote:  David:
Back before I lost patience with my iR2 and switched to HGDB I did some 
measuring of the air inlet temperature with a Fluke thermocouple adapter on 
an old Fluke 12. I found that with the bead positioned just below the inlet 
holes the temperature would range about 70 F higher than the panel display. 
This is physically close to the roaster's temperature bead which economics 
would dictate is the only temperature sensor the roaster has, leading me to 
theorize that the manufacturer has introduced a differential to cause the 
panel display to more closely approximate the roast chamber temp. (perhaps 
this differential varies from machine to machine?)
Leaving the manufacturer's undocumented default programming for the first 
2 - 3 minutes out of the picture, my unit would follow the programmed 
temperature pretty accurately as long as I programmed it near one of the few 
temperatures the machine is able to maintain. For instance if I programmed 
400F I would get 400 - 405F on the readout. My problem with the unit is 
that I spent considerable time trying to develop a steadily rising profile, 
but there seemed to be a gap in the available temperature control points. 
(a large jump from 415 to 450?) I don't remember the details and don't have 
time at the moment to review my notes.
I could have made do with the unit's temperature quirks had I been able to 
hear the cracks, but alas, maybe one or two pops of first was all I could 
hear. I have enjoyed HGDB roasting immensely and have learned far more 
about roasting in a few months than I ever did in several years of HW 
Precision and iR2 roasting. Which is not to say I didn't enjoy some pretty 
fine coffee, but I was never even close to being in control of the process.
Saving up for a programmable Hottop, since Jeffrey Pawlan's CCR is out of 
the question. Now, if I hit the lottery...
Michael Wade

41) From: Ronnie Kramer
OK, do not use the fan speed info at the IR site.  The fan speed DOES NOT change depending on whether the feedback temp is above or below the set temp.
   
  Baked beans anyone?
Ronnie Kramer  wrote:
    OK, I still know nothing, I'm still trying, and I've been reading at the IR2 site a little.  I tried putting Tom's (Coffee Kid) tips together with Carole's tips on fan speed and it did not help.  I read the following at the IR2 site regarding fan speed;
   
           Why does the machine seem to ramp up and down or "surge" during roasting?                    -    It is normal for the roaster to act that way. The reason why the roaster surges off and on is to keep the temperature where the user programmed it at. When the fan is blowing low, the temp is increasing, when the temp is blown high, the temp is decreasing. It is very hard for the roaster to stay at a consistent temp for long period of time. To help to stay as close as possible to the desire temp, the fan blows low and high depending on the ambient temp inside the roasting pot, the temp setting, and the amount of chaff that is produce from the roaster. Because of these variables, there is no pattern when the roaster surges on and off. 
  For example, if the temp is set at 420 F, the fan will blow low for most of the roast, when it gets above 420 F, it will start blowing high to get it back to 420 F. Also, within the first three minutes of any roaster or any roasting profiles, the temp will never go above 355 F and the fan will blow high during the first three minutes. The reason for this is to create an even roast. Every bean has different amounts of moisture. Even though it is very little, it is enough to create unevenness. So what the roaster does in the first three minutes, it is trying to sufficiently dry out all the beans so they will be at the same level
  So if Tom is right about only 5 temp outputs, it seems each temp setting is still useful and the temperature feedback controlls the fan speed.  E.g. if you set the ir2 for 390F and then 420F in the next stage, the temp output may remain the same, but the fan will slow down until you pass 420F.
   
  This would explain why (I can't remember who said) some people get best results when the fan cycles fast and slow repeatedly.  The feedback temp is very near the set temp.  If the fan never speeds back up, you haven't reached your set temp.  If it never slows back down after speeding up, your staying above the set temp.
   
  This seems verifiable when I look at my roast notes where I did note changes in fan speed.  I don't know if this will help anyone.  But I think I'll be recording fan speed changes as diligently as on-board temps from now on.
   
Ronnie Kramer
Austin, TX

42) From: Brett Mason
Heat Gun and a DOg Bowl (stainless please)
Remove the dog food
Clean bowl
Clean it again
  Ok now put some beans in it and turn the heat gun on!
Sometimes the simple method is utterly amazing!
Brett
On 1/22/07, Ronnie Kramer  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

43) From: Justin Marquez
On 1/22/07, Ronnie Kramer  wrote:
<Snip>
"Heat Gun / Dawg Bowl" roasting method. Uses a heat gun and a "dog
bowl" (or some other heat resistant vessel - stainless wire mesh
collander, etc...). All-new equipment can be obtained at WalMart or
other hardware suppliers for about $40. Can do up to about a pound at
a time, although many folks roast about 1/2 to 3/4 pound in a typical
batch.
Benefits are that it is easy to see, hear, smell what is going on in
the roast and offers ultimate control.  Downside is that some
experience is required to make repeatable roasts and that true
temperature control is not easy (hard to hold a heat gun and a
thermometer and a wooden spoon all at once!)
It ends up being a Zen-roasting experience instead of a "scientific
time/temp ramp" roasting experience.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)

44) From: Brett Mason
Also, there's a good discussion of heat gun roasting that Ed Needham has
placed online...
 http://www.homeroaster.com/heatgun.htmlRegards,
Brett
On 1/22/07, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

45) From: David Schooley
No sarcasm was intended. I am sorry if it came out that way.
This is interesting. Do you have data from Preset 2 with one of your hot
iRoasts? It looks like Hearthware changed the profile. It is either that or
your current roaster runs cool.
On 1/22/07, Vicki Smith  wrote:
<Snip>

46) From: Vicki Smith
I never had a hot roaster, David. I just hear from so many people that do.
My first roaster, the one that pooped out after about 15 roasts, stopped 
running hot enough to bring it to first crack.
Prior to that, it was virtually identical to this one. The other roaster 
I have used is my nephew's, which runs fairly close to the way mine 
does, but not exactly. He gets to 1st crack using preset 2 about 30 
seconds before me--but that is roasting at his house, not sure how it 
would be at mine,.
I may ask him to bring his roaster with him, next time he drives up here.
Since Hearthware hasn't really given us much information to go by, it's 
hard to know what exactly constitutes running hot or running cool. My 
only point all along really has been that if people with new roasters 
are getting charcoal in 6-8 minutes, or   having trouble getting up to 
first crack in a reasonable way, that they should consider returning the 
machine and trying with a different one.
Our two roasters (yours and mine) are apparently very different from 
each other, but both are able to produce nuanced roasts. I guess we 
should keep ours ;).
v
David Schooley wrote:
<Snip>

47) From: David Gorton
What Is the effect of more beans? I am currently using around 80g per roast.
I was hoping to use smaller amounts to find the appropriate roast for the
beans before fully committing myself. Is this wrong?
Thanks,
David Gorton
On 1/22/07, Vicki Smith  wrote:
<Snip>

48) From: Brett Mason
More beans = more coffee..
In fluid bed roasters, more beans = larger bean mass = more retained heat =
hotter roast = no more weenie grassy ultra-light icky foul roasts...
Just came to help...
Brett
On 1/22/07, David Gorton  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

49) From: David Schooley
I updated the spreadsheet archive to make the file names more Windows- 
friendly.
Here are the URLs again:
<Snip>
On Jan 22, 2007, at 7:41 AM, derbyrm wrote:
<Snip>

50) From: Ross
Hi guys,
Here is an interesting ad for the IR2, note the "patented voltage control 
circuit" maybe this is their way of allowing us to program in 5 degree 
increments??, anyone know anything about this claim?  Is the "voltage 
control circuit" still a 4 or 5 band controller?
Regards,
Ross
text of ad: "This unit roasts 5-6oz (up to 150g) of beans. This is enough 
beans for up to 24 cups of coffee. You can roast all types of Green Coffee 
Beans. I-Roast is for all brewing systems and fully adjustable - Roasts 
light, dark, and everything in between. Patented voltage control circuit 
guarantees consistent roasting performance. 2 Preset Automatic Roasting 
Curves for soft and hard beans. Also allows you to create your own custom 
profiles. Glass roasting pot allows clear visibility, giving you complete 
control of the roast.This coffee roaster offers full chaff collection and 
comes apart for easy cleaning."
 options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings

51) From: David Schooley
That would explain how the temperature of the bean mass can go so much
higher than the readout temperature. I think the heating element also heats
up the reflector plate in the bottom of the chamber.
The 415F to 450F gap was a bit frustrating for me because I thought I had
found the break point, and then when I tried to hit it several months ago,
it was not there. (You can see my comment in roast #100 in my notes when I
was trying to tune profile #7. It even got me to thinking that my roaster
was beginning to have problems. I should have gone back to my notes from
April.) You have to program for 455+ but the readout only goes to 433F, so
perhaps the jump is not as big as it seems.
My iRoast is semi-retired now that I have a digital HotTop, but I have used
the iRoast as recently as last weekend. It will continue to be useful for
small batches. In some ways, the HotTop is a better roaster for beginners
because you do not have to fiddle with the temperatures. The cost is a bit
steep for someone starting out and who does not know if roasting will be a
long-term thing. The iRoast is a really nice little roaster once you figure
out the temperature settings, but Vicki is right... Profile #2 really needs
to be more usable.
On 1/22/07, Michael Wade  wrote:
<Snip>

52) From: Carole Zatz
I love those funky Indonesian beans that have low-acid and heavy-body.
You typically roast them to FC or FC+. I think I have at least 4
different SM Sumatra's in my green bean stash right now. And they all
taste different. The Sulawesi is my least favorite - but I still like
it. It has almost no chaff and is very funky. On my first machine, on
my normal profile, it roast probably longer than any other bean.
That's why I thought it'd be a good test of the Preset2. If that went
fast, pretty much anything else would roast even faster. It's a good
thing I like beans that roast to FC or FC+! That's what made my IR2
somewhat useable. I'd just let it go until it hit FC or FC+ and then
hit COOL, regardless of what stage the profile was in. Also, roasting
until FC or FC+ helps in dealing with IR2 roasting too bright. It's
also probably why I don't care for the lighter-roasted beans as much.
It did a very bad job on the Ethiopian 'Horse' that I've been
hoarding. Actually, messing up the 'Horse' was sort of the last straw.
I love that bean and I don't have much left! And I never had any
trouble with it before.
One of the things I like about the IR2 is the roast size. I always
roast 150g, using a digital scale. This gives me two pots of coffee in
my Technivorm. We love the ability to change the coffee each day. I
think if I went with a different roaster down the road I'd still like
to roast a smaller amount.
The real difficulty is hearing the cracks. I'm lucky in that I first
had a FR8 so when I got the IR2 I knew what to listen for. It helps me
to not face the roaster when I'm really trying to listen.

53) From: Vicki Smith
I didn't know the Sulawesi had so little chaff. That being the case, I 
would be tempted to treat it more like a decaf, which in the iRoast 2 
means lowering the batch size by between 1/3 and 1/2  (Tom's great 
suggestion) and mebbe throwing some chaff from an earlier roast into the 
chaff collector. That should slow the roast pretty effectively.
The IR2 is an interesting roaster. I'm guessing that it is a first 
roaster for most of the folks who buy it. After a bit of experience, 
people either decide roasting isn't for them, go on to buy a 
different/better roaster with different characteristics , or use the IR 
with great joy for a long, long time. It would be interesting to know 
how many of the folks who just decide that roasting isn't for them have 
machines that simply don't perform very well out of the box.
I turned my nephew on to roasting, and he bought one--wasn't even 
interested in watching me roast in the HG/BM. He uses it a couple of 
times a week like one would use any other kitchen appliance. Had he not 
had a machine that could be used pretty   without having to make 
adjustments or keep records, he would have ended up selling it in his 
next garage sale.
We don't see folks like that on this list, but they are out there.
vicki
Carole Zatz wrote:
<Snip>

54) From: David Gorton
After talking with Hearthware customer support (very helpful), I found out
that altitude has a big impact on roasting temperatures. The told me that
the presets wouldn't work for me. Instead I need to set a profile that uses
lower temperatures. The highest temperature that they recommended for the
IR2 was 400.
This correlates to the profiles I have been evolving towards. I guess that's
the price of living at 5400 feet.
On 1/23/07, Vicki Smith  wrote:
<Snip>

55) From: Brian Kamnetz
On 1/24/07, David Gorton  wrote:
<Snip>
David,
I began roasting in a Poppery II in northern New Mexico, at 6500 feet, and
then moved here to Columbia SC. It was amazing to me how much "hotter" the
popper was in NM compared tohere in SC. In NM I had to restrict roasts to
about 1/2 cup; here the same popper had all it could do to roast 3/4 cup.
Brian

56) From: Vicki Smith
Wouldn't it be great if Hearthware actually published all this information?
David Gorton wrote:
<Snip>

57) From: Ross
One more idea-
This has worked to improve my IR2 roasts.  For those who seem to have a hot 
roaster due to altitude, ambient temp, voltage, or just product variances --  
try programming 325 for 15 minutes and cool it when you reach your desired 
roast, see what you get you may like it.  In my machine it will still ramp 
the beans all the way through first crack and get to desired roast in about 
10 to 13 minutes, the results are a smoother less sharp, less acidic roast. 
The machine temp indicator will look like it stalled but the beans will 
continue to advance in roast so the temp is going up.  If 325 doesn't get 
you all the way you may try 325 for 6 minutes then 360 for 2 and 410 for 3 
that will get you there for sure.  I don't know why it took me so long to 
back way off on the temp program but I finally did and it was a huge 
improvement.  I think my next step will be to install a temp probe and try 
to map temperature rise with more accuracy.  Now that I can get my roasts to 
slow down I'm very happy with the IR2.  Will someone please post a link to 
installing a temp probe in the IR2?
Thanks,
Ross

58) From: Carole Zatz
Hi Ross, you commented:
<Snip>
I did try 320 for 8, then 375 for 3, 400 for 2, and 425 for 2 for a
total of 15 minutes when I was first struggling trying to extend the
time between first and second crack. The first crack hit at 9:30 into
the roast and second crack followed shortly at 12:00 when I hit COOL.
To me, this roast tasted very flat and baked. I think it was due to
the slow ramp up into first crack. And it still had the short time
between cracks. That's when instead I started low, went higher to get
into first crack, and then decreased the temperature after it got into
the first crack. I didn't think the roast improved with the long ramp
into first crack. Of course, other roasters may work much differently.
I'm with Vicki ... I sure wish there was a tip sheet available from
Hearthware. So much guesswork. I know it's an art and not a science
but it's hard to figure out what to try when you're not really sure
how the device actually works.

59) From: Vicki Smith
Speaking of tips....
Ray suggested that we cut our dryer vents so that we didn't have any 
bends when we pointed them out of the window. I roasted with my 
bend-free vent this AM, and I reached 1st a full minute sooner than 
usual for this particular bean/weight/profile.
Now, getting to first faster is not something advantageous for my 
particular IR2, so I will go back to a vent with a bit of a bend. The 
bend impedes airflow, as I understand it.
This does though, to my mind, open up the possibility of adjusting just 
how *bendy* we want the vent to be for those of us who use vents when we 
roast with the IR2 indoors. It also made me, once again, glad that I 
have another roasting method at my disposal.
vicki

60) From: Ross
Vicki,
None of us picture you as a "low class" roaster, trust me.  I can't explain 
the results of your airflow experiment though, maybe it is a case of you 
working against the machine logic, don't know?   I do have one more tip for 
fellow fluid bed roasters.  When you have a "bad batch" don't throw it away. 
Seal it up and cup it at intervals up to 4 weeks, you may be surprised when 
it tastes great after 3 weeks.  My parents like brown water for coffee so 
whenever I had a batch I considered undrinkable I put it in the Dad bag, one 
day while cupping my stores I tapped the Dad bag and to my surprise it was 
smooth and nice.  Just a note for your consideration, your mileage may vary.
Regards,
Ross

61) From: Ross
Hi Carole,
What can I say, at 9:30 your program was 375 and went up from there.  If I 
program 375 or higher my machine will advance from 1st to 2nd too fast for 
my liking, best I can do is one and a half minutes on a cold day.  Having a 
baked batch is not a problem in my machine, as we have seen we are not 
really helping each other with reports of IR2 programs, we need to compare 
apples to apples like bean mass temperature, there are just too many 
variables working on our IR2 programs.  I do find reports of crack timing 
and bean color comments valuable.  I am far from fully experienced at this 
hobby but my results so far indicate that a slower temperature ramp does 
improve my roasts, especially the lighter roasts. My results in the IR2 seem 
to be one shade darker than the chart on SM's web site for the lighter 
roasts.  If I cooled my IR2 roast with the color of an Illy roast it would 
be way under roasted and sour tasting.  I'm going to probe my IR2, and try 
to refrain from discussing what I program because it seems to not be 
comparable or useful for anyone else.
Regards,
Ross

62) From: Carole Zatz
I tried a roast with a dryer hose attached and it did speed up the
roast. The bean was an Ethiopian Dry-Processed Ghimbi. I like this
coffee and have roasted it many times. It has the typical uneven roast
characteristic with a few beans too light and it has a lot of chaff. I
try to roast it to Full City, which is what Tom suggests. This roast
was really just to see what impact the dryer hose would have on the
process. With the dryer hose the room I roasted in (my mud room) was
5F colder than the roast without the hose (my kitchen).
This is the profile (it was suggest to me by Hearthware):
385 / 4:30
420 / 2
405 / 1
345 / 3
400 / 4:30
The following table shows the minute followed by No Hose temp
(slightly warmer room) and then With Hose temp (slightly cooler room)
– the temps are the ones showing on the IR2.
min 14 / 282 / 280
min 13 / 300 / 300
min 12 / 307 / 311
min 11 / 316 / 318
min 10 / 340 / 350
min 09 / 347 / 365
min 08 / 370 / 388
min 07 / 365 / 365
min 06 / 367 / na
No hose: first crack at 5:56 in (min 9:04), second crack at 9:00 in
(min 6:00), cool at 9:00 in (min 6:00), decent Full City, I think.
With hose: first crack at 5:41 in (min 9:19), second crack at 8:10 in
(min 6:50), cool at 8:30 in (min 6:30) ended up at Full City+ (maybe
even Vienna) with oil showing on many beans. Those last 20 seconds
were a real mistake. I should have hot COOL right when second crack
started.
So it did work quicker even though the room was slightly cooler. And
there was tons of smoke (boy, I'm now impressed with how well my
stove's vent hood works!).

63) From: Vicki Smith
That makes way more sense, Carole, than the results I got.
v
Carole Zatz wrote:
  > No hose: first crack at 5:56 in (min 9:04), second crack at 9:00 in
<Snip>

64) From: Vicki Smith
I've never tried it ventless, however. Are you up for checking bend vs 
no bend?
Vicki Smith wrote:
<Snip>

65) From: bb
I went ahead and gave this profile a whirl last night, and although it goes
against convention if the temperature readings on the i-roast were that of
the bean mass, the reality is that the bean temp continues to climb even
when the "roast temperature" is dropped.
420 lowered the fan speed
405 put it into the up, down, up, down fan speed.
This still isn't the perfect set up for my "hot" i-roast, but I learned a
lot from giving it a go, and I'm really pleased with the eveness of the
roast.  I thought for sure that It'd be done in 6 minutes, but I made it to
around 9.9.5 for a FC-FC+ roast.
Bill


HomeRoast Digest