HomeRoast Digest


Topic: newbie needs your opinoin, please (20 msgs / 711 lines)
1) From: Scot Murphy
On Jan 21, 2007, at 9:59 AM, beth wrote:
<Snip>
Maybe you underroasted it a tad? It's hard to control in a popper  
because they go so fast, but you might have underdeveloped flavors.  
Also, try a little more once it's rested another day. These things  
take time. :)  I'm also going to suggest a different brewing method-- 
maybe a pourover (Melitta cones are cheap), and if you take to one, a  
vacuum pot (used on eBay). But my first response has to be, give it  
another minute (maybe) in the popper past first crack. That should  
get the sugars in the beans time to caramelize a bit.
Scot "awaiting correction" Murphy
---
"You were sick, but now you're well again, and there's work to do."
                           --Kilgore Trout

2) From: Jeff Oien
beth wrote:
<Snip>
Try brewing it much stronger (more beans per volume of water). If you're
used to super dark beans like Starbucks, the lighter home roast may
taste too weak. I've had many people make similar comments on my
home roast. I've noticed myself that I need to brew coffee roasted
at City+ a little stronger than beans roasted at FC+.
The Idido is also a fairly light bodied bean.
JeffO

3) From: Ken Mary
<Snip>
Have you previously tried grocery store whole bean coffee like 8 OClock,
Folgers, or Starbucks? Your homeroast should taste 10 times better than
those.
If your popper roasts fast, in the range of 4 minutes or so, you may want to
stop at a darker level, closer to the start of second. If you roast near a
window, you should be able to see a sudden increase of blue smoke that
precedes second crack. Your reference to tea suggests a light roast.
Make sure that you are brewing correctly. Even a perfect roast can be ruined
by bad brewing. First throw away the drip brewer. Try a pourover as was
suggested, but you may enjoy a french press better.
--

4) From: Tom Ulmer
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Hello Beth,
I can not advice on using an air popper as I was never successful (to my
satisfaction) in the endeavor. For me using a cast iron kettle or a
WhirlyPop worked much better.
If the air popper method holds some promise for you try roasting to the
beginning of the second crack. Stopping the roast right after first may not
give you the results you're searching for at this point in your journey.  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of
beth
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:59 AM
To: homeroast
Subject: +newbie needs your opinoin, please
Good morning everyone,
I'm new to all of this, and would just like to see if I am on the right
track.  The reason I'm asking is that my husband and I have both said that
our home roast doesn't really taste like coffee (he thinks it's more like a
tea).
Last night I roasted some Misty Valley in a popcorn popper.  Mine seems to
roast quite fast, so I can't go by time, and I don't have anyway to monitor
temp., so I go by color and what I believe is first and second crack.
I roasted the Misty Valley to just finish of first crack (I think), let it
uncovered overnight, and ground some this morning to taste.  It was about 12
hours from roast to cup.  I usually drink my coffee with cream and sugar,
but I wanted to try this black to see if I could taste all of the flavors.
I was actually able to drink two cups completely black, which is remarkable.
I think I tasted fruit (I would have to say lemon), but I'm not sure I would
have come to that conclusion had I not read Tom's description.  
My confusion is this:  am I doing this whole thing right?  I suspected that
home roasted would taste different, but I'm suprised by how much not-like
coffee this is. Coffee has always been one of my "comfort foods" but this
taste is so different that in a way I feel like I've lost something.   I'll
wait to roast anymore until I know that I am on the right track.  
Different but enjoying the journey.
Thanks, 
Beth

5) From: Brett Mason
Hi Beth,
Try roasting 4oz of beans in your popper, and take them all the way to
brown-turning-to-black.  You'll need to camp by the roaster to empty it just
as they start going into black.  You need to understand the tarnsitions,
even if this is darker than you normally are accustomed to drinking...  My
unprofessional opinion is youu arent roasting far enough...
Hope this helps you get the cup you are looking for.
Brett
On 1/21/07, Tom Ulmer  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

6) From: John McCormick
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Beth,
You'll get lots of opinions and help on this list . so I'll give you my best
advice . two words "FRENCH PRESS".
Depending on how much you drink at a time, get either the 1 cup or 3 cup
Bodum French Press and enjoy.
I switched to a FP about 4-5 years ago and will never go back to drip, etc. 
You get full-flavor with the FP, all of the oils, sediment, etc. 
I use more coffee than I've heard mentioned on this list. I use four heaping
tablespoons in the small FP, add the near-boiling water while stirring, let
it sit for 30 seconds or so, then slowly plunge down.
To each his own, but this is my method and I like the results.  Letting it
sit too long in the FP prior to plunging down to me gives a muffled, stale
flavor.
The FP's are cheap (Target sells them for about $15).
Best of luck,
John

7) From: Andy Thomas
----- Original Message ----
[snip]
I roasted the Misty Valley to jus=
t finish of first crack (I think), let it uncovered overnight, and ground s=
ome this morning to taste.  It was about 12 hours from roast to cup.  I usu=
ally drink my coffee with cream and sugar, but I wanted to try this black t=
o see if I could taste all of the flavors.  I was actually able to drink tw=
o cups completely black, which is remarkable.  I think I tasted fruit (I wo=
uld have to say lemon), but I'm not sure I would have come to that conclusi=
on had I not read Tom's description.  
 
My confusion is this:  am I do=
ing this whole thing right?  I suspected that home roasted would taste diff=
erent, but I'm suprised by how much not-like coffee this is. Coffee has alw=
ays been one of my "comfort foods" but this taste is so different that in a=
 way I feel like I've lost something.   I'll wait to roast anymore until I =
know that I am on the right track.  
 
Thanks, 
Beth
It seems to=
 me that you did everything right, Beth, allowing of course, for tweaking t=
he roast to your personal taste. I have yet to roast a batch of Misty Valle=
y -- that will happen this morning! -- but some coffees do have a tea-like =
flavor. I'm thinking of  another Ethiopian, Yirgacheffe, which reminds me o=
f Darjeeling, or even Earl Grey. To get your comfort drink, you may want to=
 try a different coffee, say, a Colombian, or you could try to roast  Misty=
 a little into second crack.
Andy=
8:00? 8:25? =
8:40? Find a flick in no time 
with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shor=
tcut.http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news

8) From: Justin Marquez
On 1/21/07, beth  wrote:
<Snip>
Beth - Not all well water is funky.  In the country house we had out
in Snyder, TX before the move back to the big city our well was 240 ft
deep and produced wonderful water.  Best I've ever had access to.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)

9) From: SamToren
You didn't let it roast long enough. There are really two easy ways to get past 1st crack on a popcorn popper without listening (motors too loud): 
  (1)chaff - once the chaff is mostly gone (i.e. not a significant amount blowing out any more), you're really close to about city roast. 
  And (2)look for little black disks, around 1mm circumference (really small), and you are in the middle of 2nd crack - around full city ++.  This method is easiest if you're catching the chaff in a large white plastic bowl - after the chaff stops, and you are into 2nd crack, a little piece of the bean will "crack" off and blow into the bowl.  
   
  The coffee should taste like coffee - if you're taking it off too early, it'll taste like roasted grass.
   
  Enjoy
   

10) From: True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Beth,
    First WELCOME!!!!!!!! We are a crazy wacky friendly bunch! (between
all of us someone has the answers you need no matter what the question)
How are you brewing your coffee? 
Dennis 
AKA 
FC1(SW) Dennis W. True 
Safety Dept 
USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN 69) 
FPO AE 09532-2830 
 "On station and on point 124 and counting down..." 
	
	 
	Good morning everyone,
	 
	I'm new to all of this, and would just like to see if I am on
the right track.  The reason I'm asking is that my husband and I have
both said that our home roast doesn't really taste like coffee (he
thinks it's more like a tea).
	Last night I roasted some Misty Valley in a popcorn popper.
Mine seems to roast quite fast, so I can't go by time, and I don't have
anyway to monitor temp., so I go by color and what I believe is first
and second crack.
	I roasted the Misty Valley to just finish of first crack (I
think), let it uncovered overnight, and ground some this morning to
taste.  It was about 12 hours from roast to cup.  I usually drink my
coffee with cream and sugar, but I wanted to try this black to see if I
could taste all of the flavors.  I was actually able to drink two cups
completely black, which is remarkable.  I think I tasted fruit (I would
have to say lemon), but I'm not sure I would have come to that
conclusion had I not read Tom's description.  
	 
	My confusion is this:  am I doing this whole thing right?  I
suspected that home roasted would taste different, but I'm suprised by
how much not-like coffee this is. Coffee has always been one of my
"comfort foods" but this taste is so different that in a way I feel like
I've lost something.   I'll wait to roast anymore until I know that I am
on the right track.  
	 
	Different but enjoying the journey.
	 
	Thanks, 
	Beth

11) From: Eddie Dove
Beth,
Lots of great advice ... figured I'd add my two cents ...
First ...
How long did that roast take?  If you achieved that roast in about 3
minutes, then what happens is that the outside of the bean is done, but the
inside has some catching up to do.  If the roast is going too fast, then use
less beans on the next roast.  This will allow more heat to pass through the
bean mass as opposed to being trapped by and absorbed into the beans.  If
the roast is too slow, use more beans.  Another trick that you can use if
the roasts are going way to fast is to use various lengths (50', 75', 100')
of good quality extension cords (like you would use outdoors with electric
grass trimmer); this will reduce the voltage supplied to the popper.  Others
on this list are very talented and have modified poppers that can turn a
quarter mile in 10.2 seconds.  I know nothing about electronics so my
poppers (a Poppery I, a few Poppery IIs, Wisconsin Badgers Popper and
others) are all sitting on a shelf.  I am sure the talented folks on this
list would be willing to help modify your popper if you wish to do so and if
you need the help.
In my opinion, you nailed the right roast level for the Idido Misty Valley,
but it may need a little more time to get to that level so that it is a
good, even, thorough roast; I love the brilliant Meyer Lemon flavor that can
be achieved with the Idido Misty Valley.  Next time, try roasting enough so
that you will have it around for at least 7 days and try it every day.  You
will see how it changes during that time and by days 3-5 it should be
hitting its peak.
Second ...
Your coffee maker most likely does not even get closed to optimum brewing
temperature, 195 - 205 F.  This will make the coffee weak, thin and more
like tea.  Do get a Melitta pour over and if you are going to use paper
filters, get some of the Melitta filters that have little pinholes in them
(in the picture on the box) or order some of the Filtropa filters from our
hosts; it does make a difference and I prefer the Filtropa over the Melitta,
but most of the time I use Swissgold.  Put the filter in the cone and rinse
it with hot water then add the coffee grounds; brew as soon after grinding
as possible.  Heat the water such that by the time you pour it over the
coffee it will be at the optimum brewing temperature.  Pour into the coffee
and give it a stir.
I hope this is helpful ...
Respectfully,
Eddie
-- 
My Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafehttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 1/21/07, beth  wrote:">http://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 1/21/07, beth  wrote:
<Snip>

12) From: Scott Marquardt
Seconding Eddie's remarks . . .
Beth, those Ethiopian dry process beans do, indeed, taste better after
a few days. Or at least the aromatics seem to improve. I suspect this
is more true when they're roasted lightly.
I'll also second advice about coffee ratios: a bit shy of two ounces
for a quart of water. And experiment with the grind; you'll have
hopeless luck without nailing a proper fineness of grind.
I'll also second the advice about using a French press, or even an
Aeropress. A pourover is also a great idea; it gives you an intimate
acquaintance with your grind and water, and the aromatics while
brewing a pourover make it a very worthwhile method.
For roasting, eventually you'll want to slow things down. If you get
hooked on home roasting, you'll end up with a modded popper (whether
you or a friend does the effort) or using a method that lets you
stretch the roast times.
try tipping the popper until the amount you roast flows in a vertical
pattern, instead of the spouting pattern you may be getting now. You
may find that this will slow your roast by a minute or so, provided
you don't load it too fully.
Adding beans slows the airflow through the system, so that the air
flowing over the heater coils picks up more heat. Since it passes the
beans more slowly too, it ends up having time to transfer more of that
heat to them. A faster blow through the system will gain less heat per
unit of air, and will transfer less to the beans.
Above all, be patient with yourself, laugh at your gaffes, and have
fun. It's so liberating to be trying something for the first time,
because the only thing you can possibly do is improve!
- Scott
On 1/21/07, Eddie Dove  wrote:
<Snip>

13) From: miKe mcKoffee
I believe Andy may have "hit the nail head". Specifically Beth said it
didn't taste like "coffee". But what does that mean? This wine doesn't taste
like wine imparts as much information. Interestingly many or most of the
Ethiopian coffees available to home roasters DO NOT taste like what is
typically thought of as coffee by the masses having much more flavor and
usually much more acidity. Interestingly because where the heck did coffee
originate? Ethiopia of course not a can on a Super Market shelf! 
Beth, is this experience of your roasts not "tasting like coffee" limited to
the Misty Valley or other coffees you've roasted? If also others what are
they? And as a reference, what type of coffee where you and your husband
accustomed to prior to starting home roasting? How dark roasted? Whole bean
or pre-ground etc.?
Also, you said your roast seems "fast" so don't go by time. But what does
"fast mean? What was the roast time for the Misty Valley? FWIW fast roasts
tend to have less body. Anything less tan 11 minutes or so fluid bed roasted
will tend to favor acidity over body. 
Also rest was mentioned. Quite often more body will develop with a good 4 or
5 days rest.
I suggest when starting roasting roast EVERYTHING to the first snap of 2nd
crack at the lightest, especially using a popcorn popper. This will help
ensure a completely roasted bean, virtually all beans will be fine at this
stage (maybe not optimal roast for the bean to bring out the best varietal
characters but not destroyed either), and more often than not will still be
lighter than what most people are accustomed to. Pay attention to the sounds
and smells of the roasts. As you gain experience with your roaster then if
you choice start roasting lighter than 2nd.
Just more ideas to confuse you!
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/	From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Andy Thomas
	Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:30 AM
	
	----- Original Message ----
	
	[snip]
	I roasted the Misty Valley to just finish of first crack (I think),
let it uncovered overnight, and ground some this morning to taste.  It was
about 12 hours from roast to cup.  I usually drink my coffee with cream and
sugar, but I wanted to try this black to see if I could taste all of the
flavors.  I was actually able to drink two cups completely black, which is
remarkable.  I think I tasted fruit (I would have to say lemon), but I'm not
sure I would have come to that conclusion had I not read Tom's description.
	My confusion is this:  am I doing this whole thing right?  I
suspected that home roasted would taste different, but I'm suprised by how
much not-like coffee this is. Coffee has always been one of my "comfort
foods" but this taste is so different that in a way I feel like I've lost
something.   I'll wait to roast anymore until I know that I am on the right
track.  
	 
	Thanks, 
	Beth
	 
	It seems to me that you did everything right, Beth, allowing of
course, for tweaking the roast to your personal taste. I have yet to roast a
batch of Misty Valley -- that will happen this morning! -- but some coffees
do have a tea-like flavor. I'm thinking of  another Ethiopian, Yirgacheffe,
which reminds me of Darjeeling, or even Earl Grey. To get your comfort
drink, you may want to try a different coffee, say, a Colombian, or you
could try to roast  Misty a little into second crack.
	 
	Andy
	No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
 
	with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

14) From: raymanowen
Beth, you've probably been hammered all you can take, but Eeew! If you
wanted a "Pucker up" drink, this would sure do it- " I roasted the Misty
Valley to just finish of first crack... "
I only glance at my watch to see if it's still running, and I don't use my
thermocouple meter for coffee roasting. It's just a distraction to draw your
attention away from the beans.
If the beans are smoking and snapping and they appear dark and shiny, you
should have pretty intense coffee. According to your taste, you might want
to practice stopping the roast earlier. Whatever you do, suit Beth and
Company. Nobody else. You're in for a surprise!
Practice is the operative word. If you have beans left from your first
roast, throw them in the popper again. Roast them further until you see them
do something- anything. I'll wager you will still get more beans to pop for
First Crack.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976

15) From: Beth
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Thank you, everyone for your help.  I'm going to try again and see what
happens.  Taking into consideration what everyone has told me, here's what I
am going to try (please, someone yell "stop" if I'm going to make a
blunder!)
1.	The popper was taking about 7 minutes; I kind of rotated it while I
was roasting as I could see the beans better that way and it seemed to help
move beans around that kind of looked like they were just sitting still in
the middle of the popper.  I will continue doing this, but add a little more
time to the roast (maybe a minute?)
2.	I will let the roasted beans sit a minimum of 2 days before I use
them (we always grind immediately before brewing)
3.	I will still use filtered water, because our well is no where near
240 feet, and it has that 'well water' taste :-)
4.	I am going to try to run out and get a pour over pot to use before
my next roasted coffee.  I believe someone suggested a Melitta (thank you)
5.	I will play with the coffee to water ratio; maybe I need to use more
grounds.  We have always used whole bean coffee (8 o'clock etc) and I had
just kept to the same ratio of water/coffee that we used with that. 
If you may indulge me for one more question, and then I'll be quiet.  Is
coffee an annual crop?  By that, I mean is a particular bean only available
once a year?  I understand that different regions have growing seasons, but
I've seen mention several times that people are afraid that SM will run out
of a certain bean.  When that happens, does it mean that that bean won't be
available for another year?  Than could drastically change the way I order!!
Thank you again for all of your help.  You seem to be a very nice group of
people with a wonderful array of experience and knowledge and opinions.
I'll let you know if my changes make any difference.
Very sincerely,
Beth  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of
raymanowen
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 1:21 AM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +newbie needs your opinoin, please
Beth, you've probably been hammered all you can take, but Eeew! If you
wanted a "Pucker up" drink, this would sure do it- " I roasted the Misty
Valley to just finish of first crack... "
I only glance at my watch to see if it's still running, and I don't use my
thermocouple meter for coffee roasting. It's just a distraction to draw your
attention away from the beans. 
If the beans are smoking and snapping and they appear dark and shiny, you
should have pretty intense coffee. According to your taste, you might want
to practice stopping the roast earlier. Whatever you do, suit Beth and
Company. Nobody else. You're in for a surprise! 
Practice is the operative word. If you have beans left from your first
roast, throw them in the popper again. Roast them further until you see them
do something- anything. I'll wager you will still get more beans to pop for
First Crack. 
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976 

16) From: Eddie Dove
Beth,
Yes, coffee is a seasonal crop ... take a look at the following page:http://www.sweetmarias.com/coffee.prod.timetable.shtmlJust a note ... the Melitta pour over just sits on top of the coffee mug.
Respectfully,
Eddie
-- 
My Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafehttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 1/22/07, Beth  wrote:">http://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 1/22/07, Beth  wrote:
<Snip>

17) From: Vicki Smith
Don't be quiet!!! This is *the* place for all sorts of questions 
regarding coffee.
Yes, coffee is an annual crop. More than that, Tom cups all of the 
coffees he can, and only buys the very best. That means that the 
particular bean we loved one year might not be good enough for his 
discriminating tastes the next year.
People approach this in different ways. Some folks buy large quantities 
of a bean they really love, so they have some on hand long after it is 
gone from the SM list. Over time, they develop quite the stash. Others 
buy smaller quantities with the thought that they may momentarily mourn 
the end of a much loved bean, but something equally good is available or 
coming up.
I fall into the second camp.
vicki
Beth wrote:
<Snip>

18) From:
---- beth wrote: 
Beth:
Welcome. I think perhaps you may have under roasted your first batches. You and you husband may also be used to  the over roasted, old coffee you purchased before you started to homeroast.
It takes a while and a sampling of different coffees to make a decision on what you really like.
May I ask what you were drinking before homeroast?
regards,
ginny
homeroasters.org

19) From: Brett Mason
Beth,
Would you also order 1lb of the UGH thumbs down stuf that Tom sells?
Early in your roasting experience you should take some beans through the
full cycle of roasting from green to charcoal.  This will confirm for you
that you see all the stages of roast, hear all the sound, smell all the
smoke, and know where the full range is.  The info gained from this will
help you know relationally where your given roast is in the process, and
remove several areas of question.
2 cents,
Brett
On 1/22/07, Beth  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

20) From: jim gundlach
--Apple-Mail-17-125847239
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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On Jan 22, 2007, at 9:48 AM, Beth wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
Beth,
    Since the quality of a coffee is dependent on many factors,  
including the weather, you cannot count on the same coffee grown by  
the same estate having the same quality from year to year.  While  
that is a down side to buying coffee, we are lucky in that we can be  
confident that Tom will provide great coffees from season to season  
and year to year.  Those of us who have been doing this for a while  
all have favorites that we hope Tom will offer again next year but we  =
know when he decides it is not a good coffee this time, we are  
disappointed in that we don't get that coffee this year but we have  
not spent our money only to be disappointed with what we got.
     Pecan Jim=
--Apple-Mail-17-125847239
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charsetNDOWS-1252
On Jan 22, 2007, =
at 9:48 AM, Beth wrote:
When that happens, does it mean that = that bean won’t be available for another year?  Than could = drastically change the way I = order!! Beth,=    Since the quality of a coffee is dependent on many factors, = including the weather, you cannot count on the same coffee grown by the = same estate having the same quality from year to year.  While that is = a down side to buying coffee, we are lucky in that we can be confident = that Tom will provide great coffees from season to season and year to = year.  Those of us who have been doing this for a while all = have favorites that we hope Tom will offer again next year but we = know when he decides it is not a good coffee this time, we = are disappointed in that we don't get that coffee this year but we = have not spent our money only to be disappointed with what we = got.    Pecan Jim= --Apple-Mail-17-125847239--


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