HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Staling of roasted beans (7 msgs / 209 lines)
1) From: Paul Jolly
Reading Ken's comments about 25-30-day-old drum roasts finally going stale (vs. 5-7 days in his air popper) got me wondering:  has anyone done an experiment using various roast methods & profiles to determine any correlation between (a) roast method & staling or (b) roast profile & staling?
   
  Sounds a bit weird, I guess, but I used to proceed from the assumption that one week was about as long as a "fresh" roast would last.  That was when I roasted in a popper exclusively.  Then I made a TO/SC roaster and realized that some beans tasted good well after a week.  Now, here I am drinking two-and-a-half-week-old Colombian Cauca La Esperanza roasted in my RK drum, and it tastes wonderful---the complexity is fading (as is the already-muted acidity), but it's still good.  I always store beans in Mason jars.
   
  I guess the message is this:  try roasting a bean in all three on the same day, bottle them up, and begin testing at 1 week, eh?
   
  cheers,
  Paul
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2) From: miKe mcKoffee
To a great extent I suppose it's a matter of what is personally considered
still tasting good. On the one hand you say "it tastes wonderful" on the
other hand "the complexity is fading (as is the already-muted acidity)".
This seems to imply that the given roast method already muted the acidity
and with the long rest age of the coffee the acidity even more diminished.
While some taste components may well be decent 3 or 4 weeks "rest", your own
observation seems to agree with the commonly held consensus that coffees
"stale" faster than that. At least if the acidity of a coffee is a
consideration.
There's stale as in not as good as it was, and there's really stale as in it
tastes like Foulgers!
Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/	From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Paul Jolly
	Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 10:19 AM
	
	Reading Ken's comments about 25-30-day-old drum roasts finally going
stale (vs. 5-7 days in his air popper) got me wondering:  has anyone done an
experiment using various roast methods & profiles to determine any
correlation between (a) roast method & staling or (b) roast profile &
staling?
	 
	Sounds a bit weird, I guess, but I used to proceed from the
assumption that one week was about as long as a "fresh" roast would last.
That was when I roasted in a popper exclusively.  Then I made a TO/SC
roaster and realized that some beans tasted good well after a week.  Now,
here I am drinking two-and-a-half-week-old Colombian Cauca La Esperanza
roasted in my RK drum, and it tastes wonderful---the complexity is fading
(as is the already-muted acidity), but it's still good.  I always store
beans in Mason jars.
	 
	I guess the message is this:  try roasting a bean in all three on
the same day, bottle them up, and begin testing at 1 week, eh?
	 
	cheers,
	Paul

3) From: Coffeenut
LOL...excellent point Mike!  
Rick

4) From: Tom Ulmer
I must agree personal taste is paramount to one's perception of stale. The
acidity may be a plus in one coffee but in another may offer up
underdeveloped flavors. A differential should be made between what may seem
to be optimal flavors and when the coffee becomes flat or unpleasant. Mt
opinion is the latter represents stale.

5) From: Paul Jolly
miKe wrote:
   
  While some taste components may well be decent 3 or 4 weeks "rest", your own
observation seems to agree with the commonly held consensus that coffees
"stale" faster than that. At least if the acidity of a coffee is a
consideration.
   
  I think I used language a bit lazily.  I think I meant 'rancid' instead of 'stale'.  What miKe points out as one possible definition of being 'stale' is what I think of as 'fading.'
   
  The 'stale' I had in mind is when the oils begin to decompose ('rancid')---when coffee takes a big turn for the worse.  For me, I can hardly drink any store-bought oily beans because I can smell the rancidity of the oils and find myself so repulsed that I either give them away to my enemies or feed them to my compost  bin (while apologizing to the microbes, of course).
   
  I suspect that, given this definition, lighter roasts with no oil showing on the bean surface would stay drinkable longer than darker roasts whose oils are more exposed to the environment (especially O2, if I understand rancidity correctly--can any O-chem wizzes help me out here?).
   
  --Paul
---------------------------------
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6) From: miKe mcKoffee
Really is a matter of definitions. Both faded and rancid seem to fall under
"stale" the I way understand Webster: "tasteless or unpalatable from age".
Obviously rancid (unpalatable) much more stale than faded (tasteless)!
Though of course there's degrees of faded and what is tasteless to one is
quite acceptable to another...
miKe
	From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Paul Jolly
	Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 2:22 PM
	
	miKe wrote:
	 
	While some taste components may well be decent 3 or 4 weeks "rest",
your own
	observation seems to agree with the commonly held consensus that
coffees
	"stale" faster than that. At least if the acidity of a coffee is a
	consideration.
	 
	I think I used language a bit lazily.  I think I meant 'rancid'
instead of 'stale'.  What miKe points out as one possible definition of
being 'stale' is what I think of as 'fading.'
	 
	The 'stale' I had in mind is when the oils begin to decompose
('rancid')---when coffee takes a big turn for the worse.  For me, I can
hardly drink any store-bought oily beans because I can smell the rancidity
of the oils and find myself so repulsed that I either give them away to my
enemies or feed them to my compost  bin (while apologizing to the microbes,
of course).
	 
	I suspect that, given this definition, lighter roasts with no oil
showing on the bean surface would stay drinkable longer than darker roasts
whose oils are more exposed to the environment (especially O2, if I
understand rancidity correctly--can any O-chem wizzes help me out here?).
	 
	--Paul

7) From: Ken Mary
<Snip>
This lighter roast concept, along with slower ramps, may be the clue to
longer shelf life. Shorter, darker roasts may bring more oils to or near the
surface where oxygen will quickly turn them rancid. More crack damage (not
sure it actually happens) in shorter roasts may also let oxygen deeper into
the bean.
--


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