HomeRoast Digest


Topic: End of First Crack or How To Predict The Future? (19 msgs / 603 lines)
1) From: David Morgenlender
I've gotta ask this ... I keep coming across profiles saying things like =
"at end
the of first crack ..." or "on the verge of second crack".  How does one
determine one is at this state until having moved beyond it?
End of first crack ... roasting in my GC, with rare exception, I can only=
 hear
cracks by putting my ear near the end of the chaff collector, at which =
point I
cannot see the beans.  Usually, I hear an occasional pop, at best.  So I =
never
know I've hit the last one until I've waited to hear no more ... then of =
course
it's too late to act "at end of first crack"!
Verge of second crack ... when I hear second crack I realize there's been=
 a
"verge" ... oops, too late!  I can get a rough idea by watching the beans=
 to see
them suddenly darken.  But then I'm not in a position to hear any cracks.=
  And
usually, I kill the roast just a little late using this method ... since =
I
really need to kill it on the verge of the verge :) !  This reminds me of=
 being
given directions "when you reach the hill, you've gone too far" ... but =
at least
in that case I can turn around.
Suggestions?
Dave
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Dave Morgenlender
e-mail: dmorgen
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2) From: Brett Mason
Roast a few times, take notes, and "learn from the bean" so you know what is
coming, and when.
Tighten down the variables so you can reproduce your roast.
Automate as much as possible.
Well that's how they do it....  Here's my alternative:
Find beans you like
Learn how you like them
Roast the same way, best you can.
My approach to coffee roasting is more like ZEN...   FC or FC+ is my
standard.  I probably miss something along the way.  I have never duplicated
anything in my life.  (My seven sons are similar to each other, but none the
same - turns out I like them all!)
If I had a Dietrich's, I would probably better reproduce my roasts.  I doubt
I would have as much fun...
Here's to Vitamin F...
  Brett
On 1/29/07, David Morgenlender  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

3) From: Lynne Biziewski
My approach is similar to yours, Brett. I'm about as un-scientific as can
be.
One thing that taught me, though, was roasting batches too long - I don't
like dark roasts, never have, even before I started homeroasting. Eventually
I just realized I had to stop my roast sooner - at first, I was afraid that
I'd end up w/raw beans. Started munching on one or two, just to make sure
they weren't mushy.
Been pretty happy with the results, although I am continuously surprised
each and every time I take a sip of the results. Once and a while I get
something I don't like (those times I figure it was something I did - or
didn't do), but most times it turns out terrific.
I'm sure there are many who can give you better specifics on all of this,
David. But I am def. also having lots of fun, roasting stove-top.
Lynne

4) From:
I would agree with Brett on this one Dave.
ginny
b, will send you stuff today for upload.
---- Brett Mason  wrote: 
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5) From: Justin Marquez
On 1/29/07, David Morgenlender  wrote:
<Snip>
Watch and smell carefully as you roast.  The smoke amount and
character changes just before 2nd crack. To my flawed sense of smell
it has a more "sharp" or slightly acrid character just as 2nd is about
to happen. Also, there is a noticeable increase in the smoke amount.
(BTW - Is the "zen" thing inherently difficult for an MIT guy...? [
just kidding ] )
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)

6) From: Eddie Dove
Dave,
I must concur with Brett.  I do take notes and pretty much know when what is
gonna do what, but I really like to be intimately involved with the
roasting.  The most telling for me in that range from the end of 1st crack
to just before 2nd crack is the aroma.  If you experience the way the
roasting aroma changes for several roasts it will really help.  For
instance, a really sweet floral fragrance during and at the end of 1st crack
will usually tend to "sharpen" some in my roaster within about a minute.
This is when I know I am at what I perceive as City+.
Be the bean grasshoppa ...
Eddie
-- 
Errare humanun est - sed perseverare diabolicum
My Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafehttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 1/29/07, Brett Mason  wrote:">http://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 1/29/07, Brett Mason  wrote:
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-- 
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7) From: George Florian
I use a GC as well. I have recorded my roasts on almost all occasions. I
record amount of bean, temp set, and temp monitored. Usually a few minutes
in I have a recognizable roast curve under way. 
In general I have been doing, 
350 for 6 minutes,
435 for 5
460 for 4,  (here is where things change based on bean,
482 for 2 or 2.5 (depends on bean and smoke(sometimes I leave 460 all the
way))
Back to 460 to end of roast
Hit cool, pull power, dump beans to cool them, reinsert drum, and start the
roaster to allow it to complete cooling cycle. I bought 5 pounds of SM
select CR just to test how close I could replicate roasts.
Oh and one other thing, I pay my son to record temps for me sometimes. :)
Just my 2 cents.

8) From: jim gundlach
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On Jan 29, 2007, at 3:02 PM, David Morgenlender wrote:
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Learning how the smell changes as it progresses helps.
     Pecan Jim
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On Jan 29, 2007, =
at 3:02 PM, David Morgenlender wrote:

I've gotta ask this ... I = keep coming across profiles saying things like "at end

the of first crack ..." or = "on the verge of second crack".  = How does one

determine one is at this state until having moved beyond = it?

Learning how the smell = changes as it progresses helps.      =  Pecan Jim 

= --Apple-Mail-2-696645296--

9) From: David Morgenlender
I do take notes.  But I haven't really taken advantage of them.  I don't =
think
the notes are specific enough, and I tend to not roast the same bean =
frequently.
I guess it's time to go back to school ... detailed notes & repeat until =
I've
got it!
7 sons ... it must've been pretty noisy around your place!  I've got 2 =
daughters
... and 1 son (if you count the pooch).  The girls are very different =
from each
other ... other than they both turned out well!  My son doesn't look or =
act like
either :) !  I also tend to avoid duplication ... I can rarely even get =
to bed,
or wake up, at the same times twice in one week!  Come to think of it, =
this is
probably one reason why I tend to move on to different beans each roast =
session.
Dave
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:23:25 -0600, you wrote:
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what is
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duplicated
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 the
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doubt
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like
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one
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only
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 I
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of
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been
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beans
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since I
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 of
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but at
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Dave Morgenlender
e-mail: dmorgen
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10) From: David Morgenlender
I'm also afraid of ending up with raw beans, which is really strange, =
since the
only roast I've done where that was a problem was my very first one!
Lately, it seems like I'm hitting closer to my target roast level in =
general,
although usually a bit too dark.  Nevertheless, the results of been more
inconsistent ... more disappointing cups of coffee.  Perhaps some of that=
 is
I've gotten more used to the flavors of homeroast.  But whenever I even =
start
thinking I've hit a downward trend, a great roast happens, e.g. my recent=
 Kona.
I think one thing I need to do is to intentionally try to roast lighter =
than I
want & see what happens ... hopefully using a bean with some flexibility!
Dave
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:39:25 -0500, you wrote:
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can
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don't
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Eventually
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that
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sure
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this,
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Dave Morgenlender
e-mail: dmorgen
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11) From: David Morgenlender
I've tried to pay attention to the aroma, but I haven't been consistent =
enough
to spot any patterns.  I'll try focusing more on this.
For awhile I tried stopping the roast when the aroma became =
"delicious".
Sometimes this produced great results, and sometimes pretty bad results, =
so I
know there's more involved than that!
Dave
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:48:52 -0600, you wrote:
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what is
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crack
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crack
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what
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duplicated
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none the
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Dave Morgenlender
e-mail: dmorgen
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12) From: David Morgenlender
Justin,
I've tried to see smoke when roasting in my GC, but have just not seen =
any.
Short of a *$ roast, any suggestions for tricks to help with this?
I can do the zen thing, but only when I remember to put my slide rule =
away :) !
Dave
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:27:03 -0600, you wrote:
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like "at end
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one
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unsvbscribes) go to =http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings==========================
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Dave Morgenlender
e-mail: dmorgen
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13) From: David Morgenlender
Thanks for the profile.  How do the beans & smoke help you alter the =
profile?
Dave
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 20:09:06 -0600, you wrote:
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minutes
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the
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the
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:)
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 "at
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only
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point
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been a
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beans to
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cracks.
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 I
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of
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at
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unsvbscribes) go to =http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings==========================
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Dave Morgenlender
e-mail: dmorgen
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14) From: Brian Kamnetz
On 1/31/07, David Morgenlender  wrote:
<Snip>
David,
I had the same experience. One doesn't soon forget the cup that results from
under-roasted beans! it took me a LONG time before I would even consider
stopping before a good number of cracks into second!
Brian

15) From: Lynne Biziewski
I had that concern in the beginning of my roasting experience, but I KNEW I
had to do something - ugh, I really had dark roasted coffee. That's when I
started to munch on a bean or two - mushy is def. not done. 'Course, I'm
roasting on the stove, so that's easier to do, I imagine, than when one is
using a machine.
Lynne
On 1/31/07, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
<Snip>

16) From: Lynne Biziewski
Meant to say, "I really HATE dark roasted coffee.." Well, I had it too..
L.
On 1/31/07, Lynne Biziewski  wrote:
<Snip>

17) From: Steven Van Dyke
I'll chime in on this one.
Get a flashlight.  I use a Surefire G2 because that's what's
handy.  Shine the light across the outlet of the chaff collector and
move up from there.  It will highlight the smoke column.
I generally hit cool when the column 'attaches' to the chaff collector.
Basically, at first there isn't enough smoke coming out to show in
the fast moving air right as it comes out.  As the smoke output
builds you eventually reach a point where there's enough smoke coming
out that you can see it even there.  Since that's generally the point
just before you reach second crack, and that's where I want to stop...
At 01:25 PM 1/31/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>

18) From: David Morgenlender
Thanks for the suggestion.  Sure enough there was smoke to see, once I =
used a
flashlight.  I think I nailed both roasts using this technique!
Dave
On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 05:26:02 -0600, you wrote:
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any.
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does one
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about
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Dave Morgenlender
e-mail: dmorgen
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19) From: raymanowen
Since I had been fooled by a popper or roaster's not letting me find the
"End of First" or "Start of Second," I determined to shake it out by just
"tickling" the roast beyond those desired limits.
This tickling the roast involves temporarily stopping the stirring of the
bean mass and giving the exposed beans one intense sweep with the heat gun
for a fraction of a second.
If the bean mass was at the End of First, the sweep won't shake out any more
pops. If the bean mass is truly ready to start Second, the intense smoke
will have started and you can just continue a very shallow ramp up. If the
intense sweep coaxes a few Second snaps on successive sweeps, then you know
the whole bean mass is at the verge of Second.
It you wanted to roast right to the very edge of Second, stop [I say STOP!]
the roast right there!
There's a whole world of exquisite flavor and aroma at this level of roast
and a tiptoe beyond, but you'll never be able to experience it if you can't
put on the brakes Right There.
There is no way to achieve this level of roast if you can't stop it there.
Contrary comments notwithstanding, try to play a game of marbles with
bowling balls on a large trampoline or a sloping driveway. Throw a hook shot
and get the ball to stop at the 1-3 or 1-2 pocket.
Water spritzing is one method of extracting an enormous quantity of heat
from a very hot bean mass, due to the latent heat of vaporization of water.
Just for me, the water drops will be different sized, and not hit every
bean. Every bean would not stop roasting at the same rate.
If I didn't want to roast and cool in a bathtub to contain my cooling mess,
I won't ever get the magic roast level.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
Just turn off the heat; get moribund roast.


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