HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Weight loss (beans that is) helpful, or not? (16 msgs / 585 lines)
1) From: Vicki Smith
I always weigh my green beans prior to roasting, and I sometimes reweigh 
them after the roast has finished, especially if I am fooling around 
with a newish bean and adjusting how exactly I get to my end point 
(whatever that may be). For example, in my bread machine, I can get to 
first anywhere between 6-9 minutes depending on how I use my heat gun. I 
can also adjust (well, within limits) how long first lasts, and how long 
I can prolong the time between the end of first and when I want to stop.
I don't have much in the way of meaningful data, at least not yet, 
mainly because I am too lazy to do it consistently, zen leaner that I 
am,  but I was intrigued when, the other night, I came upon an old 
article from roast magazine that has a table entitled "Roast Color 
Impact on Coffee Flavor". See:http://tinyurl.com/24al83.In this table, among the other things listed is the weight loss of the 
roasted beans, with 15% being a temp of 420, characterized as moderately 
light, SCAA chip 75 and producing a bright/sharp cup. The table goes up 
through a dark roast, with a 20% weight loss.
Is anyone on the list keeping track of the weight lost in roasting, and 
using it in any sort of meaningful way? I'm just playing now, but I'm 
intrigued. I do know that when I am going for that lovely chocolate 
note, I do seem to be getting it at around 17%--which is spot on with 
the table. I also stopped a recent roast shortly after 1st had ended 
(operator failure here, I dropped my glove or I would have pulled it 15 
seconds sooner) and the loss was 15.5%, with the sharpness 
described--though this was at 12 hours, and by day 4 it sure didn't seem 
sharp to me.
Anyone?
Vicki

2) From: Ken Mary
<Snip>
I do not care about weight loss. It is measured after the fact, and cannot
contribute to realtime control. You cannot taste weight loss, you taste the
end result, the coffee. There are an infinite number of profiles giving the
same weight loss, but not the same taste.
The Roast magazine article says that there is no perfect roast across all
green coffees. But IMO you can group coffees into classes and use one or two
profiles for each class.
Since you cannot measure bean temperature accurately (an IR unit may get you
close enough), you must rely on procedure. Write it out before the roast in
specific steps and follow it closely. Roasting outside creates another
variable, so you must develop a family of procedures for each coffee
dependent on outdoor temperature.
--

3) From: Vicki Smith
LOL I was able to figure out that it is a post-roast process, Ken. Silly 
little me was actually wondering that if, as part of the whole process, 
one might actually learn something that might improve one's technique 
and outcomes for future roasts by noting this as well.
v
Ken Mary wrote:
<Snip>

4) From: Ken Mary
<Snip>
Sorry about the wording of my message. I do not want to discourage you. I
merely expressed my ideas and suggestions. My roasting is based on time and
bean temperature in a drum roaster. My previous experience roasting without
monitoring actual bean temperature was hit or miss, I learned nothing.
--

5) From: Vicki Smith
I've been messing with thermometers, and found a way to suspend one over 
my bread machine pan in such a way that it doesn't get knocked about 
(well, much) or interfere with the stirring of the beans. I don't yet 
have a thermometer that goes high enough to make it very useful. That 
will be part of my next SM order.
I'm finding the "how one gets to a given roast level/temp" as well as 
the "what happened to the beans along the way" part pretty intriguing 
right now. I have these little baggies and find myself peering at the 
beans of roasts gone by looking for different expansion shtuff and 
other, perhaps nonsensical, things.
All of this would be much more useful, I suppose, if I did it 
consistently. That being said, I have developed some basic profiles that 
  produce very good results in my bread machine. I haven't though tried 
a wide variety of beans, for example, I have never roasted a Kona or 
Kenyan, and I don't even do much with South or Central American beans.
v
Ken Mary wrote:
<Snip>

6) From: Peter Zulkowski
It may be that different beans yield different results in the pre roast 
post roast weight change arena.
Mostly I roast Harrar, and to get a pound net I start off with 545 Grams 
of green and it usually comes pretty close to 454 Grams when I am finished.
Oh my, conditions can surely vary the results, to be extra safe I would 
start with about 680, then you can weigh out a pound of the results and 
have an extra pot besides :)
On another note... Folks are tracking there stash....
we all know that a pound of stash does not equal a pound of roasted.
Is anyone also tracking the loss that goes up in smoke?
PeterZ
Hunkering for the rain we may get today. Perhaps up to a quarter inch, 
here in Lake Havasu City.
Vicki Smith wrote:
<Snip>

7) From: Robert Joslin
Peter
     With no specific reason in mind, I have always kept a record of the
percent weight loss that beans undergo during roast.  The most interesting
thing that I have noted is that there is very little variation among
different types of beans roasted to the same approx. degree of roast
(usually less than +/- 2 %).  If I roast a particular bean darker than usual
roast, I will see a greater change and conversely, a lighter roast a little
less.  I don't know if my experience is the norm or not....
Josh
On 1/31/07, Peter Zulkowski  wrote:
<Snip>

8) From: Michael Dhabolt
Peter,
Your numbers come out the same as mine.  Roasting for a half pound net with
the Ubber Popper, I use about 275 Grams of greens (a scoch one way or the
other).
Mike (just plain)

9) From: Vicki Smith
I'm assuming then, that you are both going for the same (more or less) 
roast level, as weight loss in a light roast and weight loss in a dark 
roast are just plain different, at least they are when I roast.
v
Michael Dhabolt wrote:
<Snip>

10) From: Coffeenut
Josh,
You are correct.  This afternoon I roasted a pound each of Kona Kowali and
the Nicaragua Matagalpa Peaberry.  Both were roasted just to the 1st (early)
snap of 2nd C and cooled within 2mins.  Just for grins I weighed both right
after roasting.  Both weighed-in at 454g (1lb) green.  After roasting, the
Kona weighed 376g and the Nicaragua was 380g (very little difference between
the two).
I feel like I'm at some form of "green bean weight-watchers"...
Rick
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Robert Joslin
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 2:21 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Weight loss (beans that is) helpful, or not?
Peter
     With no specific reason in mind, I have always kept a record of the
percent weight loss that beans undergo during roast.  The most interesting
thing that I have noted is that there is very little variation among
different types of beans roasted to the same approx. degree of roast
(usually less than +/- 2 %).  If I roast a particular bean darker than usual
roast, I will see a greater change and conversely, a lighter roast a little
less.  I don't know if my experience is the norm or not.... 
 
Josh
On 1/31/07, Peter Zulkowski  wrote: 
It may be that different beans yield different results in the pre roast
post roast weight change arena. 
Mostly I roast Harrar, and to get a pound net I start off with 545 Grams
of green and it usually comes pretty close to 454 Grams when I am finished.
Oh my, conditions can surely vary the results, to be extra safe I would 
start with about 680, then you can weigh out a pound of the results and
have an extra pot besides :)
On another note... Folks are tracking there stash....
we all know that a pound of stash does not equal a pound of roasted. 
Is anyone also tracking the loss that goes up in smoke?
PeterZ
Hunkering for the rain we may get today. Perhaps up to a quarter inch,
here in Lake Havasu City.
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11) From: Ronnie Kramer
I loss between 13% and 19% weight on each roast from city to vienna.
Peter Zulkowski  wrote:  It may be that different beans yield different results in the pre roast 
post roast weight change arena.
Mostly I roast Harrar, and to get a pound net I start off with 545 Grams 
of green and it usually comes pretty close to 454 Grams when I am finished.
Oh my, conditions can surely vary the results, to be extra safe I would 
start with about 680, then you can weigh out a pound of the results and 
have an extra pot besides :)
On another note... Folks are tracking there stash....
we all know that a pound of stash does not equal a pound of roasted.
Is anyone also tracking the loss that goes up in smoke?
PeterZ
Hunkering for the rain we may get today. Perhaps up to a quarter inch, 
here in Lake Havasu City.
Vicki Smith wrote:
<Snip>Ronnie Kramer
Austin, TX

12) From: Robert Joslin
The extreme ranges of my numbers run from 12% to 19% (and that 19% was on a
batch that I considered burned.  Most roasts run 15 or 16 to 17%.
On 1/31/07, Ronnie Kramer  wrote:
<Snip>

13) From: Robert Joslin
So a 17% and 16% loss.  That is very typical for me.  Most beans I usually
roast right up to 2nd, maybe a few snaps into second, although once I did do
a charbucks treatment on some Africans because the wasps in the eaves of my
shed took umbrage at the the smoke and I had to leave the roaster at a
critical moment.  Strange!  Smoke is calming to bees.  Seemed to have the
opposite effect on these critters.
On 1/31/07, Coffeenut  wrote:
<Snip>

14) From: Justin Marquez
On 1/31/07, Robert Joslin  wrote:
<Snip>
Frequently a bee will come check out the roast smoke, but none have
ever been aggressive.  If one ventures too close for comfort, I give
it a quick "whooosh" from the HG and that has always discouraged them.
 Maybe wasps and caffeine don't mix!
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)

15) From: Barry Luterman
They were never aggressive but got quite numerous. Finally, we found a huge 
(about 10 year old) hive between the walls of the house. It was a real 
expensive mess to get them cleaned out. I have pictures if anyone is 
interested.

16) From: Coffeenut
Having roasted through many spring/summer seasons, I've noticed the larger
wasps (or bees) like the cicada killers are like "bees to honey" with my
coffee smoke.  They'll fly past, do a u-turn and hang around the whole time
I'm going from 1st to 2nd.  I'd figured they would be afraid of the smoke or
just not want to be near it, but they seem to be attracted to it.  They
don't go after me, just hover around the smoke.  For awhile, I had my
grill-roaster within a couple feet of our bird feeder and the birds didn't
seem to mind the smoke (or heat) either.  Even the Hummingbirds are
interested in the roast smoke and don't seem to mind either the odor or the
smoke.
I think coffee roasting is some sort of "integrating with nature thing" and
I've often felt that birds and bugs liked it when I roast.  Now, I think
I'll go eat a pine cone or something...  
:^)
Rick
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Robert Joslin
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 5:37 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Weight loss (beans that is) helpful, or not?
So a 17% and 16% loss.  That is very typical for me.  Most beans I usually
roast right up to 2nd, maybe a few snaps into second, although once I did do
a charbucks treatment on some Africans because the wasps in the eaves of my
shed took umbrage at the the smoke and I had to leave the roaster at a
critical moment.  Strange!  Smoke is calming to bees.  Seemed to have the
opposite effect on these critters.  
On 1/31/07, Coffeenut  wrote: 
Josh,
You are correct.  This afternoon I roasted a pound each of Kona Kowali and
the Nicaragua Matagalpa Peaberry.  Both were roasted just to the 1st (early)
snap of 2nd C and cooled within 2mins.  Just for grins I weighed both right
after roasting.  Both weighed-in at 454g (1lb) green.  After roasting, the
Kona weighed 376g and the Nicaragua was 380g (very little difference between
the two).
I feel like I'm at some form of "green bean weight-watchers"...
Rick
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