HomeRoast Digest


Topic: 1st and 2nd crack sounds (was ---> +OT-- Tea) (24 msgs / 948 lines)
1) From: L. Michael Fraley, MD
This is just so confusing for me (a newbie) as this is not what I have 
experienced.  For me the second crack sounds louder.  It would be great 
if somebody had a website that actually had sound files on it where we 
could click, and listen to the cracks.  Does anybody know of anything 
like this?
Michael
On Feb 2, 2007, at 3:01 PM, Justin Marquez wrote:
First cracks are louder and deeper sounding than seconds.  As others
have said, 1st is kinda like popcorn (but usually not as loud)  and
2nd is more like rice krispies when the milk hits 'em.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)

2) From: Brett Mason
Put a package of popcorn in yur microwave, and run it on high for 3 minutes.
That's first crack.
Pour a bowl fo rice crispies.  Then add milk.  Sure, 1% is fine.
That's second crack.
Now do it again, this time while your vacuum is running.
That's why you're struggling...
Brett
On 2/2/07, L. Michael Fraley, MD  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

3) From: Laura Micucci
there is one.  I remember seeing it once when I was scanning the web.  It
was in a BBQ drum.  anyone know what I'm talking about?  I can't remember
where I saw it...   hmmmm
On 2/2/07, L. Michael Fraley, MD  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Laura Micucci
www.freshroastedforyou.com

4) From: L. Michael Fraley, MD
I do not mean to be argumentative... but my point is:  my experience 
has been the exact opposite.  I can hear second crack (as a loud snap 
like a pencil breaking) from across the room.  Where as first crack 
sounds like vague popping noises like maybe somebody breaking a saltine =
cracker and crumbling it.  And I use a Hottop more than my IR2, so the =
vacuum noise is not as relevant.  :)  But, I do appreciate your effort =
to try to educate me.  This entire list has been so helpful.
Michael
On Feb 2, 2007, at 3:26 PM, Brett Mason wrote:
Put a package of popcorn in yur microwave, and run it on high for 3 
minutes.
 
That's first crack.
 
 
Pour a bowl fo rice crispies.  Then add milk.  Sure, 1% is fine.
 
That's second crack.
 
 
Now do it again, this time while your vacuum is running.
 
That's why you're struggling...
 
 
Brett
 
On 2/2/07, L. Michael Fraley, MD  wrote: 
This is just so confusing for me (a newbie) as this is not what I have
<Snip>
be great
<Snip>
anything
<Snip>
others
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.comL. Michael Fraley, MD=

5) From: Laura Micucci
this is on Ed Needham's site.  Perhaps this would be helpful?http://www.homeroaster.com/crack.mpg. Best I could find...sorry.
On 2/2/07, L. Michael Fraley, MD  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Laura Micucci
www.freshroastedforyou.com

6) From: Tom Ulmer
Understandably you do not want an argument to escalate to a quarrel.
My opinion is you will find that in roasting beans they will crack
differently. Indeed I have had occasion when second crack was more
pronounced than first. I've roasted particular beans that it was =
difficult
to coax a distinct first crack at all. Relative humidity and the heat
application profile also affect a distinctly personified first crack.
The general information conveyed is accurate when so applied.

7) From: Sandra Andina
--Apple-Mail-10-1017686356
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset-ASCII;
	delsp=yes;
	format=flowed
Huh.  My experience is just the opposite--first crack sounds sharper,  
like snapping chewing gum, while second sounds crackly.
On Feb 2, 2007, at 2:35 PM, L. Michael Fraley, MD wrote:
<Snip>
Sandra Andina
www.sandyandina.com
--Apple-Mail-10-1017686356
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charsetO-8859-1
Huh.  My experience is just =
the opposite--first crack sounds sharper, like snapping chewing gum, =
while second sounds crackly.
On Feb 2, 2007, at 2:35 PM, L. =
Michael Fraley, MD wrote:
I do not mean to be argumentative... but my point = is:  my experience has = been the exact opposite.  = I can hear second crack (as a loud snap like a pencil breaking) = from across the room.  = Where as first crack sounds like vague popping noises like maybe = somebody breaking a saltine cracker and crumbling it.  Sandra = Andinawww.sandyandina.com

= = --Apple-Mail-10-1017686356--

8) From: L. Michael Fraley, MD
Good points.  I think I may have misspoke (misstyped?) about  part of 
what I was trying to say.  Maybe what I hear is not the exact opposite. =
  Just in terms of loudness.  I do hear 1st crack more as popping, and =
second as snapping.  But it seems that second is so much louder.
Michael
On Feb 2, 2007, at 4:00 PM, Tom Ulmer wrote:
Understandably you do not want an argument to escalate to a quarrel.
My opinion is you will find that in roasting beans they will crack
differently. Indeed I have had occasion when second crack was more
pronounced than first. I've roasted particular beans that it was 
difficult
to coax a distinct first crack at all. Relative humidity and the heat
application profile also affect a distinctly personified first crack.
The general information conveyed is accurate when so applied.

9) From: L. Michael Fraley, MD
My confusion is deepening!  Ha ha!  The problem is, as such a newbie, I =
begin to worry I am doing it all wrong.  Though the coffee has been 
wonderful, so maybe it doesn't matter.  I am just such a stickler for 
doing things the right way.
Michael
On Feb 2, 2007, at 4:15 PM, Sandra Andina wrote:
Huh.  My experience is just the opposite--first crack sounds sharper, =
like snapping chewing gum, while second sounds crackly.
On Feb 2, 2007, at 2:35 PM, L. Michael Fraley, MD wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
www.sandyandina.com
L. Michael Fraley, MD=

10) From: Barry Luterman
It's not necessarily loudness but rapidity. 2nd is a rapid crackling like 
rice crispies.

11) From: Brett Mason
I really liked my description.  If you don't agree, you still have some
popcorn to munch.  And if tahat's not enough, you have a nice bowl of cereal
to chase the popcorn...
Doc, I think the best measure is if you like the coffee you are getting -
maybe you're closer to the answer than you had thought...
Regards,
Brett
 Snap
  Crackle
   Pop
On 2/2/07, L. Michael Fraley, MD  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

12) From: Michael Dhabolt
Barry,
Barry Luterman wrote:
<Snip>
I've never heard that definition before...........but probably the best
explanation.
How did the wind storm treat you and yours?
Mike (just plain)

13) From: Barry Luterman
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I've been through worse in Nevada. The difference in Nevada there are no =
trees to fall on your house. There is a poker hand we call a Nevada =
Forrest three threes ( tree trees). At any rate lost an Avocado tree and =
2 Eucalyptus trees. Probably going to cost about a grand to cut up and =
cart out. No damage to house or roof.

14) From: Michael Rasmussen
L. Michael Fraley, MD wrote:
<Snip>
The, ahem, "right way" is to roast beans so they can be used to brew fine tasting
coffee.
The, ahem, "better way" is to roast them to a degree that supports their full
flavor potential.
If the coffee is wonderful you've achieved one or both of these.
-- 
   Michael Rasmussen, Portland, Ore, USA
  Be Appropriate && Follow Your Curiosity
       http://www.patch.com/words/

15) From: Justin Marquez
On 2/2/07, Laura Micucci  wrote:
<Snip>
That video track sounded like first cracks to me.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)

16) From:
put some beans and roast until you hear a "rolling crack" that's mid to end of 1st crack.
g
---- Brett Mason  wrote: 
<Snip>

17) From: an iconoclast
On 2/2/07, L. Michael Fraley, MD  wrote:
<Snip>
Maybe it would help to take some beans...not Brazil YB cause that'll confuse
you even more...and roast them outside over your BBQ grill  side burner or
camp stove and slowly stir with a wooden spoon or whisk.  Make sure you wear
gloves.  Just let em go all the way to burnt.  You'll hear first crack, see
the beans swell, smoke and lose chaff, then you should have a lag time
without much sound.  Then you'll see more smoke and rice crispy crackling.
This gets more intense into Vienna.  Past that, I believe they're burnt.
This will give you the sounds, smell and visual cues without a machine
interfering.  At least then you'll know what sounds you're looking for.
Good luck,
Ann
homeroast mailing list
<Snip>
-- 
Sweet Maria's list searchable archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/index.htm

18) From: L. Michael Fraley, MD
And then a nice cuppa coffee to wash it all down!  I liked your 
description too, Brett.
Michael
On Feb 2, 2007, at 4:40 PM, Brett Mason wrote:
I really liked my description.  If you don't agree, you still have =
some 
popcorn to munch.  And if tahat's not enough, you have a nice bowl of =
cereal to chase the popcorn...
 
Doc, I think the best measure is if you like the coffee you are getting =
- maybe you're closer to the answer than you had thought...
 
Regards,
Brett
 Snap
  Crackle
   Pop
 
On 2/2/07, L. Michael Fraley, MD  wrote: 
My confusion is deepening!  Ha ha!  The problem is, as such a =
newbie, I
<Snip>
been
<Snip>
for
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.comL. Michael Fraley, MD=

19) From: L. Michael Fraley, MD
Hi Ann.  I may do that then.  I have pan roasted, but it was when I was =
so new, I really do not know what I heard.  Thanks for the advice.
Michael
On Feb 2, 2007, at 6:16 PM, an iconoclast wrote:
On 2/2/07, L. Michael Fraley, MD  wrote:
<Snip>
been
<Snip>
for
<Snip>
Maybe it would help to take some beans...not Brazil YB cause that'll 
confuse you even more...and roast them outside over your BBQ grill  
side burner or camp stove and slowly stir with a wooden spoon or 
whisk.  Make sure you wear gloves.  Just let em go all the way to 
burnt.  You'll hear first crack, see the beans swell, smoke and lose =
chaff, then you should have a lag time without much sound.  Then =
you'll 
see more smoke and rice crispy crackling.  This gets more intense into =
Vienna.  Past that, I believe they're burnt.  This will give you the =
sounds, smell and visual cues without a machine interfering.  At least =
then you'll know what sounds you're looking for.
Good luck,
Ann
<Snip>
-- 
Sweet Maria's list searchable archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/index.htmL. Michael Fraley, MD=

20) From: Larry Johnson
A couple of weeks ago, there was a thread about so-called "pre-crack" snaps
or some-such (don't remember what they called them); muffled pops that
preceded the true onset of 1st crack. Sound familiar? ("...vague popping
noises like maybe somebody breaking a saltine cracker and crumbling it.")
IMHO, you are hearing those "pre-crack" muffled pops and mistaking them for
1st crack. Then, when true 1st crack comes along, with the "loud snap like a
pencil breaking", you assume that that is 2nd crack. Go back to Brett's very
excellent description of the two sounds. That is really the way they sound.
The other way you might describe 2nd crack is someone crumpling a sheet of
cellophane.
Larry J (Lilboybrew)
"I could be wrong .... but I don't think so."   -   Charles Barkely
On 2/2/07, L. Michael Fraley, MD  wrote:
<Snip>

21) From: L. Michael Fraley, MD
Hi Larry,
You may be correct, and I am sure you know more than I do.  But, that 
doesn't really correlate with how the roasts turn out.  When I hear the =
"loud snap like a pencil breaking", I often stop the roast right away 
(in an effort to not roast too far into 2nd Crack.)  If this were 
really the very beginning of 1st crack, wouldn't the roast be pretty 
bad?
Michael
On Feb 3, 2007, at 11:54 AM, Larry Johnson wrote:
A couple of weeks ago, there was a thread about so-called "pre-crack" 
snaps or some-such (don't remember what they called them); muffled pops =
that preceded the true onset of 1st crack. Sound familiar? ("...vague =
popping noises like maybe somebody breaking a saltine cracker and 
crumbling it.")
 
IMHO, you are hearing those "pre-crack" muffled pops and mistaking =
them 
for 1st crack. Then, when true 1st crack comes along, with the "loud =
snap like a pencil breaking", you assume that that is 2nd crack. Go 
back to Brett's very excellent description of the two sounds. That is 
really the way they sound.
 
The other way you might describe 2nd crack is someone crumpling a sheet =
of cellophane.
 
 
Larry J (Lilboybrew)
 
"I could be wrong .... but I don't think so."   -   Charles =
Barkely
 
On 2/2/07, L. Michael Fraley, MD  wrote: I =
do not mean to be argumentative... but my point is:  my experience
<Snip>
snap
<Snip>
crack
<Snip>
saltine
<Snip>
the
<Snip>
your effort
<Snip>
<Snip>
L. Michael Fraley, MD

22) From: L. Michael Fraley, MD
Oh, and another thing that might be helpful in my description:  when I =
hear what I have been calling 1st Crack (and this usually happens about =
13 minutes, give or take, after I drop the beans into my Hotttop), I 
see some smoke.  Not a huge amount, but some smoke.  Then there is a 
pretty decent amount of time that goes by (usually about 6 minutes or 
so with my Hottop) after I hear that "1st crack" before I hear what I 
am calling 2nd crack.  At that point, I see a great deal of smoke, and =
the roast progresses very rapidly into the darker roasts.  If I were to =
continue more than 2 minutes after what I call "2nd crack", I would 
soon have char.  So, maybe I just have a strange way of describing the =
cracks!  I do not have a great sense of hearing (due to having spent a =
great deal of my life working in a bad environment, and due to teenage =
years with headphones on) but I do have an excellent sense of smell, so =
that may be what is helping me.
On another note, at least the coffee is good!  Today, I found myself 
with only a small amount of Ethiopia Organic Dry Process Sidamo (at 
Full City+) and a small amount of Nicaragua FTO Lozahoren (Dipilto) (at =
City+) so, on a whim, I decided to mix them in equal parts to make a 
pot.  Excellent!  Has reasonable body, is malty-sweet with a bit of 
brightness.  Very good.  Some milk chocolate as it cools.
Michael
On Feb 3, 2007, at 12:21 PM, L. Michael Fraley, MD wrote:
Hi Larry,
You may be correct, and I am sure you know more than I do.  But, that 
doesn't really correlate with how the roasts turn out.  When I hear the =
"loud snap like a pencil breaking", I often stop the roast right away 
(in an effort to not roast too far into 2nd Crack.)  If this were 
really the very beginning of 1st crack, wouldn't the roast be pretty 
bad?
Michael
On Feb 3, 2007, at 11:54 AM, Larry Johnson wrote:
A couple of weeks ago, there was a thread about so-called "pre-crack" 
snaps or some-such (don't remember what they called them); muffled pops =
that preceded the true onset of 1st crack. Sound familiar? ("...vague =
popping noises like maybe somebody breaking a saltine cracker and 
crumbling it.")
 
IMHO, you are hearing those "pre-crack" muffled pops and mistaking =
them 
for 1st crack. Then, when true 1st crack comes along, with the "loud =
snap like a pencil breaking", you assume that that is 2nd crack. Go 
back to Brett's very excellent description of the two sounds. That is 
really the way they sound.
 
The other way you might describe 2nd crack is someone crumpling a sheet =
of cellophane.
 
 
Larry J (Lilboybrew)
 
"I could be wrong .... but I don't think so."   -   Charles =
Barkely
 
On 2/2/07, L. Michael Fraley, MD  wrote: I =
do not mean to be argumentative... but my point is:  my experience
<Snip>
snap
<Snip>
crack
<Snip>
saltine
<Snip>
the
<Snip>
your effort
<Snip>
<Snip>
L. Michael Fraley, MD

23) From: Tom Ulmer
Michael,
I find smell is my best indicator. You will come to recognize when it is
time to push to first crack as well as end of roast by olfactory indicators.
Immersion in the smoke will dull the sense so orient your nose
appropriately.
Cheers

24) From: L. Michael Fraley, MD
Thanks for the advice, Tom.  I have found that by smell alone, I am 
able to say when the cracks are going to occur.  That is fun, 
especially when a family member is nearby.  They end up being 
impressed.  HA HA!
Michael
On Feb 3, 2007, at 2:18 PM, Tom Ulmer wrote:
Michael,
I find smell is my best indicator. You will come to recognize when it is
time to push to first crack as well as end of roast by olfactory 
indicators.
Immersion in the smoke will dull the sense so orient your nose
appropriately.
Cheers
L. Michael Fraley, MD


HomeRoast Digest