HomeRoast Digest


Topic: rocky grinding (27 msgs / 990 lines)
1) From: susan oppenheim
Can someone on the list tell me which number on the dial is the best to
grind what coffees at?
I have a rocky
i am crossing my fingers i'll get the best info here
I need the grind number on the dial to set for
espresso
lattes
americanos
thank you so much
javamama

2) From: Brett Mason
On my Rocky, it's
  8 for espresso - adjust subsequent shots according to personal taste
     goes for my latte's, and americanos too
 13 for lungos
 28 for mokapot
 45+ for drip...
My zero point is at 0.
Brett
  RWA
On 2/23/07, susan oppenheim  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

3) From: Eddie Dove
Susan,
The Rocky's have a floating zero point, which means it is different for
everyone.  Hopefully, someone can take the time to relate this to you and
the relative number of from their zero to help you.
Eddie
On 2/23/07, susan oppenheim  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Errare humanun est - sed perseverare diabolicum
My Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafehttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/">http://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/

4) From: Rich M
Brett-
French press?
Rich M
On Feb 23, 2007, at 10:56 PM, Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>

5) From: Brett Mason
I use my Zass for french press - they live at my office....
Sorry, I would prob use Drip 45+, but I do them differently than
anyone else on the list - lots of email threads will bear that out...
Brett
  RWA
On 2/23/07, Rich M  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

6) From: Mike Garfias
On Feb 23, 2007, at 9:57 PM, Eddie Dove wrote:
<Snip>
The first time I took mine apart to clean I screwed up and didn't  
mark the top burr / hopper relationship.  When I put it back together  
I took the top burr all the way down until it contacted the lower  
burr (gently mind you), and then set the hopper on top, and  
positioned it so that the zero mark on the hopper matched up as close  
as I could to the witness mark on the body.
It ended up being backed off a bit, but I'm never going to grind at  
zero anyway.
I'd also imagine that the setting will change over time as the burrs  
wear.
With this adjustment I run 55 (+/- a few) for press, and 28 (+/- 1 or  
2) for moka.  I don't have an espresso maker here (yet), but when I  
send my wife to work with ground coffee for her to pull a shot from  
the Krups pile of crap they have in their office I grind at 14 or  
so.  Any finer and the filter clogs (the filter basket has one of  
those annoying single tiny holes in the bottom - lame).

7) From: miKe mcKoffee
As already mentioned, but bears repeating, any reference to a grind "number"
needs to be in terms of the number "from" true zero. (Finding zero point
explained by Bob) 
Since you asked for grind numbers for three beverages all either being or
made from a straight shot of espresso the answer would be the same for all
three: espresso, latte and Americano. And the answer is there is NO absolute
static grind setting for espresso. The grind needed varies greatly from bean
to bean, roast degree, humidity, temperature, degree of rest to name a few
grind variables. That said for ristrettos my range is usually +3 to +8
(above true zero), normale +5 to +10, lungo +7 to +12. However, virtually
none of my roasts have any surface oil and hence require finer grind. One
rule of thumb is the darker the roast the coarser the grind and conversely
the lighter the roast the finer the grind. Another the denser the bean the
coarser the grind and of course it's opposite. For example a Light Full City
Monkey roast might want a +7 grind while at the same moment in time
(humidity & temp being equal) a Full City + roast might want a +9 and a
Vienna Monkey roast might want +11 for same volume and timed pull normale
shot. Oh, and the same LFC Monkey at 3 days rest will probaly want a step
finer than at 6 days rest.
You'll get to the point it becomes mostly intuitive and be able to "guess"
the grind within one number and hence reduce total sink shots to almost
zero, almost:-) But it does of course take copious build up of experience to
develop the intutition to draw on! That slightly fast 21sec stopped shot
(started to blond a bit too soon) won't be terrible and in fact can be
pretty darned good, but the next shot after slight adjustment can be
exquisite and once in a blue moon a true god shot.
Pulled a damned fine normale of my Winter Solsticer blend this morning on
first attempt. Wasn't a god shot by any stretch, missed temp by about .5f or
maybe even 1f high and grind a tad fine so pulled 2oz in 29sec stopped just
as blonding imminent. But it was definitely not even close to a sink shot
and a shot I would have served even the most advanced espresso hound without
being ashamed.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
<Snip>

8) From: L. Michael Fraley, MD
Hi Susan,
I don't have a Rocky, so maybe I shouldn't answer.  I have a Mazzer 
Mini, however, and what I have found works is experimentation.  That 
said, I would think the grind would be the same for all 3 of those prep 
methods, as they are all based on espresso.  It is sometimes a pain to 
have to pull shot after shot to "dial in" your grind, but it is the 
best way to get a feel for it.  After experimenting (and after 
following the excellent advice from this list) I now know what "area" 
of the dial on my Mini is about right for drip, press pot, and for 
espresso.  Have fun experimenting!  And maybe somebody else on here can 
give you a general idea where to start.
Michael
On Feb 23, 2007, at 11:50 PM, susan oppenheim wrote:
Can someone on the list tell me which number on the dial is the best to
grind what coffees at?
I have a rocky
i am crossing my fingers i'll get the best info here
I need the grind number on the dial to set for
espresso
lattes
americanos
thank you so much
javamama

9) From: Brett Mason
I do have a Rocky, among other grinders...
My zero point is at 0.  Several posts refered to that, but none
mentioned what Zero point is.  Zero point is where the burrs meet, and
are no longer able to move.  Be sure to find this for your Rocky, as
the "gap", or number, is realtive to this position.
Mike indicated that an espresso shot is ground the same, if indeed it
is the same shot used in all three: espresso, latte or Americano.  On
my Rocky, it is 8 points open from the Zero point.
When I pull a "Lungo" which is more volume of water on a 25 second
shot, I grind at 13.  That is points more open than the zero point,
which for my Rocky, is at Zero ("0").
When I brew a Moka pot, I use a Rocky setting of 28, which is twenty
eight clicks more open than zero ("0" on my Rocky).
For drip brewing (my Clarity or my Presto), I use a setting of 45+ -
that is, I open it all the way.  I like a really smooth / sweet brew,
and so I open the Rocky as wide as she will go - somewhere beyond
45...  This of course is different than what most people like, and you
may hear of why this isn't correct...  OK by me, but since you asked,
this is what I do.
I hadn't given a setting for Presspot, but here is mine... I use a
setting of 45+ - that is, I open it all the way.  I like a really
smooth / sweet press pot also, and so I open the Rocky as wide as she
will go - somewhere beyond 45...  This of course is different than
what most people read, and/or prefer, and you likely may hear of why
this isn't correct...  Fits in with my offering of a rodent's rear
bumper, but since you asked, this is also what I do.
Hope that my thoughts regarding my Rocky give you some guidance with
your Rocky...  I didn't throw in my thoughts on my Zass, or my melitta
whirley-gig, or even my Cory Griindmaster, cause they don't appear
equivalent to your Grinder.  I also don't own any other grinders which
are not Rockys, but if I did, I wouldn't suggest their mismatch as
being an appropriate guide for your Rocky question...
Just my $2.22 ...
Brett
  RWA
Brett
 RWA
On 2/24/07, L. Michael Fraley, MD  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

10) From: L. Michael Fraley, MD
Hey Brett,
I was simply trying to help Susan understand that with any grinder, 
experimentation will be required to find what grind is right for any 
given situation.
I know I am a noob, but one does learn by teaching as well as 
listening.  So, when a request for help comes along where I feel I 
might have some clue as to what a reasonable answer is, I jump right 
in.  Maybe I shouldn't.  This place is starting to be so argumentative, 
that I am getting jumpy.  But, then again, maybe that is just the 
caffeine?  :-)
And, if I am being too sensitive, please accept my apologies!
Michael
On Feb 24, 2007, at 11:56 AM, Brett Mason wrote:
I do have a Rocky, among other grinders...
Hope that my thoughts regarding my Rocky give you some guidance with
your Rocky...  I didn't throw in my thoughts on my Zass, or my melitta
whirley-gig, or even my Cory Griindmaster, cause they don't appear
equivalent to your Grinder.  I also don't own any other grinders which
are not Rockys, but if I did, I wouldn't suggest their mismatch as
being an appropriate guide for your Rocky question...
Just my $2.22 ...
Brett
  RWA
Brett
RWA
On 2/24/07, L. Michael Fraley, MD  wrote:
<Snip>
L. Michael Fraley, MD

11) From: Brett Mason
Sorry Doc,
Your posts are certainly helpful and not in the least discouraged by
me...  I just wanted to clarify from my earlier post on how I do my
Rocky....
Regards,
Brett
  RWA
On 2/24/07, L. Michael Fraley, MD  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

12) From: L. Michael Fraley, MD
Thanks Brett.  And again, I am sorry for being so sensitive!  :-)
Michael
On Feb 24, 2007, at 12:23 PM, Brett Mason wrote:
Sorry Doc,
Your posts are certainly helpful and not in the least discouraged by
me...  I just wanted to clarify from my earlier post on how I do my
Rocky....
Regards,
Brett
  RWA
On 2/24/07, L. Michael Fraley, MD  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

13) From: Ross
Hi Susan "Javamama",
You will need to have the Rocky ON to find the Zero point because there will 
be some grinds in there.  Grab a good hold of your Rocky bean reservoir, 
turn the motor on,  push in the adjustment button and slowly turn to a finer 
setting as you listen for the burrs to just touch. They will probably touch 
around Zero + - a little.  (if you have a doserless it takes 3 hands to do 
this) where the burrs make the first metal contact sound is your Zero point. 
You have already received lots of good info on where to go from there.  Just 
remember you are the one drinking the coffee trust your own taste.  There 
are some standards you can use to stay within reasonable bounds like the 
"golden rule for espresso".  My experience with Rocky (limited as it is) is 
that "it depends" on lots of things, different coffee beans, roasts, age 
ect.  For the espresso shots you can adjust your grind to the "golden rule" 
a double shot (2 fl oz) in aprox. 25 sec but even the golden rule is not 
universal and leaves lots of room for technique.  Some say time 20 sec from 
start of flow (that's the one I use) some say 20 to 25 seconds from start of 
the pump, some say 25 to 30.  Some say if it goes white/blond it's over 
extracted (I have had coffees that are blond with crema from the first 
second or after the first 5 seconds and they are good).  So bottom line is: 
We are all going for the golden shot and finding it takes lots of discipline 
and attention to get good shots, when the gold comes it makes your day.  If 
you like milked drinks remember to taste the strait shots so you don't get 
in a rut (it's easy to do).
Here are my basic grinds from Rocky zero:
Espresso: 7 to 11 IAW the golden rule (most at 9)
Drip/pour over: paper filter 20 to 35 or gold filter 30-45 depending on how 
I liked the last one.
Press:  The Max (45+) adjust the brew time
Enjoy the coffee,
Ross

14) From: Casey Jones
Brett,
You mention "no longer able to move."  I thought that it was when you
first hear the metal contact of the burrs. Maybe I'm missing
something.
-Casey
On 2/24/07, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>

15) From: miKe mcKoffee
I've always understood zero point to be and have used first contact as the
reference point.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
<Snip>

16) From: Leo Zick
Me too. What the other definition?
Btw some grinders sound as if they rub when they are spinning. This, as it
was explained to me, is just due to the play in the carrier, so the burrs
spin slightly off center. It doesn't really do much damage to the burrs, and
shouldn't be confused as the zero point.

17) From: Rich M
Here's a question--
When I first got my rocky of few week ago, I noticed (as expected)  
some ground coffee in the burrs and chute. Not knowing the age of the  
afforementioned grounds, I dutifully took her apart and swept,  
vacuumed, and wiped it down. When putting it back together, having no  
clue of this floating zero point, I snugged the top brass piece  
(carrier) down pretty good. When I turned it on, it was very loud but  
worked itself quieter within about 10 seconds. I now know that noise  
to have been the burrs grinding against each other. So the question  
is-- DID I RUIN MY BRAND NEW BURRS???
As an aside, I have read the instruction manual on my new Anita  
thoroughly (twice) to avoid any stupid mistakes.
Rich M

18) From: Brett Mason
I gave my definition, and as I said, others will disagree...  I call
zero point as when the burrs stop moving.  Touching can happen on
burrs without causing the end of the world.
The point is to KNOW where to set your grinder.  Nobody (to my
knowledge) grinds at Zero point.  If you do, I sincerely apologize for
any disparagement you may have felt from my post.
For the rest of you, figure out where YOU like to set your grinder as
a standard point.  Then adjust accordingly per bean, roast, taste,
zodiac sign, influence of someone else, or what flame might have
pushed you along...
Brett
  RWA
On 2/24/07, Leo Zick  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

19) From: Leo Zick
Just read it, so.. I guess there are others. Lol.
Good point though, just grind the stuff.
In the end its coffee...I cant imagine the eithiopians emailed each other in
500AD and pondered how many stones to use to crush their beans
PS - cant wait for the next thread, which should be entitled 'mazzer
grinding', b/c someone will be quite confused by all this rocky specific
information!

20) From: gene nandrea
On 2/24/07, Leo Zick  wrote:
<Snip>
On a related subject, I am trying someting new (for me). On this or another
site someone recommended cleaning Rocky after each grind by using a tight
fitting plastic container and pumping air thru the burrs. I found that a
plastic soup container cut off and then covered with a layer of Saran Wrap
fit fairly snug like a piston. I have begun pumping the air while it is
grinding (I have the doserless) to hopefully clean it more completely. I
have been able to recover the same amount of ground beans as whole beans
added within the 1 gram accuracy of my scale. I hope to delay the frequency
of the cleaning by doing this. Can anyone see a negative in what I am doing?
I wonder if I am restricting a needed air flow by using the piston and may
be causing a heat buildup. Thoughts?
Gene

21) From: Leo Zick
This is a multipart message in MIME format.
Pump air through burrs after every use?  Are you using this for espresso?
I think its funny that it could take 20mins for 1/2oz of coffee :p
From: gene nandrea [mailto:1genen] 
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 6:32 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +rocky grinding
On 2/24/07, Leo Zick  wrote: 
Just read it, so.. I guess there are others. Lol.
Good point though, just grind the stuff.
In the end its coffee...I cant imagine the eithiopians emailed each other in
500AD and pondered how many stones to use to crush their beans
Now I know where Rocky got it's name!
On a related subject, I am trying someting new (for me). On this or another
site someone recommended cleaning Rocky after each grind by using a tight
fitting plastic container and pumping air thru the burrs. I found that a
plastic soup container cut off and then covered with a layer of Saran Wrap
fit fairly snug like a piston. I have begun pumping the air while it is
grinding (I have the doserless) to hopefully clean it more completely. I
have been able to recover the same amount of ground beans as whole beans
added within the 1 gram accuracy of my scale. I hope to delay the frequency
of the cleaning by doing this. Can anyone see a negative in what I am doing?
I wonder if I am restricting a needed air flow by using the piston and may
be causing a heat buildup. Thoughts? 
Gene
 

22) From: Barry Luterman
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
No problem. One of many techniques starting with click clack , =
hardboiled egg peelers and some one even used a plumbers helper.

23) From: Barry Luterman
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Pump through when changing grind setting e.g.. going from espresso to =
drip or when changing type of bean. Or once a week cleaning

24) From: Ed Needham
All the burrs I've seen touch at the outer ring and don't allow the burrs to 
touch.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

25) From: L. Michael Fraley, MD
Thanks Dennis!  I think I was just having a moment!
Michael
On Feb 25, 2007, at 6:30 AM, True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69) wrote:
Hey Doc,
	Don't think for a second that anyhting is wrong... Around here
it is our CSA duty to ensure that we share our wisdom, learning curves
and prefrences..
That being said, around here there are various opinions on various
topics and your learning is of tremendous help even if it differs from
someone elses. That is what makes this group so AWESOME!!!!!!
Bottom line PLEASE JUMP IN!!!! (with the understanding that the group
will augment your thoughts more often then not)
YMMV....
Dennis
AKA
FC1(SW) Dennis W. True
Safety Dept
USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN 69)
FPO AE 09532-2830
HG/DB and Z&D roasting in the Arabian Gulf
  "On station and on point 89 and counting down..."

26) From: Brett Mason
Moments welcome here...
Electricity too - these Winter Weather Alerts have meant ice storms
all day, power outages and lightning this evening, and supposedly 9
inches of snow by tomorrow morning!
But for my boys this means more play tomorrow!
Brett
  RWA
On 2/24/07, L. Michael Fraley, MD  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

27) From: True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)
Hey Doc,
	Don't think for a second that anyhting is wrong... Around here
it is our CSA duty to ensure that we share our wisdom, learning curves
and prefrences..
That being said, around here there are various opinions on various
topics and your learning is of tremendous help even if it differs from
someone elses. That is what makes this group so AWESOME!!!!!! 
Bottom line PLEASE JUMP IN!!!! (with the understanding that the group
will augment your thoughts more often then not)
YMMV....
Dennis
AKA
FC1(SW) Dennis W. True
Safety Dept
USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN 69)
FPO AE 09532-2830
HG/DB and Z&D roasting in the Arabian Gulf
 "On station and on point 89 and counting down..."


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