HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Portafilter Loading Zone Dust (21 msgs / 464 lines)
1) From: John McCormick
Being a new espresso machine user (long-time french press user), I'd like
some feedback (solution) on an annoyance in my espresso preparation
procedures (pardon my engineering-based terminology).
   Until about a month ago, I used to Whirly-Grind into zip-lock bags and
then as part of the individual cup preparation, spoon from the zip-lock into
my FP.  Now I have a $40 Sams Club Burr Grinder (Cuisinart) ... and for each
portafilter load, I spoon from the plastic Grinder Bin into the PF.  RESULT
is a "Loading Zone Dust" cleanup effort for each shot.
  My Question, would a good grinder, such as the doserless Rocky, eliminate
this dust on the counter?  For that matter would a doser-type Rocky (or
other grinder) also eliminate this annoyance? ... or is this just the way it
is???

2) From:
<Snip>
this dust on the counter?>>>
dish rags, sponges, always on shop vac, tons-o-strips of paper towel under any questionable dust area would work; they have a new coffee dust sucking house cat that is related to the Kupi Luwak for sale at some kennels for $10,000 per kitty. The only problem with these Kupi is that they go through your stash at a rate of 5 pounds per day....
lots of luck,
ginny
---- John McCormick  wrote: 
<Snip>

3) From: Coffeenut
Haha...better go ahead and spring for the $10000 vacu-poop-cat.  I've tried
vacuuming with a standard house cat and have had control issues along with
sort of a feline rebate result.  Whatever I could the cat to vacuum came
back the next day as a "hair ball".
Rick

4) From: Slinkster
John McCormick wrote:
  ... or is this just the way it
<Snip>
Yep, it's just hte way it is.
I drag the trash can over to the coffee area at the end of the day and 
use a dimestore (sorry, dollar store, I'm showing my age) whisk broom to 
sweep off the grinder base, the counter, and any other grounds-covered 
surfaces.
I did try to borrow the neighbor's dog named Hoover for the task but he 
was more interested in chasing my housecats around...

5) From: Brett Mason
Start by sprinkling coffee dust on the counter, floor, and into the crevices...
Now when you grind, you won't notice the dust...
Glad to help,
Brett
  RWA
On 3/5/07, John McCormick  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

6) From: Casey Jones
My dad has the Cuisinart grinder and I've seen the static explosion
when you dump the grinds from the plastice bin.  Maybe it's the
plastic.  I remember the same with my old Braun.
A Rocky or similar grinder may have less dust, because they produce less fines.
However, I now have a Rocky doserless, and I still make a mess.
Sometimes I grind directly into the basket.  Other times into and
small SS pitcher, break up the clumps, and then into the basket.
Either way I get grounds on the counter, but it's not the same as the
dust that flies everywhere with static cling.
Would I upgrade to a Rocky or similar grinder solely for less mess?
Probably not.
Would I upgrade for more consistent grind?  Sure.  I did.
You'll know when it's time to upgrade.  The bug will bite. :)
In the mean time, get a small hand held vac, like a Shark or
Dustbuster, and a pack of rags.
Have fun!
-Casey
On 3/5/07, John McCormick  wrote:
<Snip>

7) From: raymanowen
I invite you to observe the coffee particulate under, say, a 10X inspection
loupe. I don't mean to demean your equipment, the output of your grinder is
doing that.
You'd actually like a regular geometric shape like toy blocks, because the
grounds are highly porous (Under a microscope at 100X - 1000X). They'll
readily adsorb H2O molecules for brewing.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976

8) From: Leo Zick
This is a multipart message in MIME format.
And for humidity absorbing :p
From: raymanowen [mailto:raymanowen] 
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 9:15 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Portafilter Loading Zone Dust
I invite you to observe the coffee particulate under, say, a 10X inspection
loupe. I don't mean to demean your equipment, the output of your grinder is
doing that.
You'd actually like a regular geometric shape like toy blocks, because the
grounds are highly porous (Under a microscope at 100X - 1000X). They'll
readily adsorb H2O molecules for brewing. 
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976 

9) From: Brett Mason
OK, so I liked my last post better...
When I grind with the Rocky doserless, I lay a damp washcloth across
the based - makes for the easiest cleanup.  I do not use the fork
anymore, it is long since removed.
I also grind using a bottomless yogurt cup into the portafilter, so
less dust gets out...
Brett
  RWA
On 3/5/07, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

10) From: Mejia, Carlos
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I have an old Braun burr grinder that I suspect might be the weak link
to my obtaining the "perfect" espresso shot.  I looked at a sample of
the finest grind under a scope at about 100x and saw a huge variation of
particulate size.  Does a high quality grinder produce even sized
pieces?  Do you know where one might find microphotographs of a high
quality grind?  This would be very interesting to compare with what I'm
getting.  I'm pretty sure I need to upgrade but just not ready to fork
out $100+ for a decent one.  ~carlos
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of
raymanowen
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 6:15 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Portafilter Loading Zone Dust
 
I invite you to observe the coffee particulate under, say, a 10X
inspection loupe. I don't mean to demean your equipment, the output of
your grinder is doing that.
You'd actually like a regular geometric shape like toy blocks, because
the grounds are highly porous (Under a microscope at 100X - 1000X).
They'll readily adsorb H2O molecules for brewing. 
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the
Mighty Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976 

11) From: Brett Mason
Go to local espresso store.  Ask them to grind you one shot worth, and
put it in a baggie....
Take it hoe and study it...
Let us know what you find...
Brett
  RWA
On 3/5/07, Mejia, Carlos  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

12) From: Jim Carter
Keep it clean, Brett.
No need to call Carlos a "hoe".
-- Carter
Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>

13) From: Mejia, Carlos
No offense...i've been called much worse!  
Good idea...in fact maybe I'll ask for a ground shot AND a dose of beans
to grind at home and compare the pulls.  The other weak link I have is
an old Barista (*$) espresso machine with a pressurized PF.  It extracts
a shot in about 12-15 seconds that is usually quite 'foamy' and often
bitter.  As I learn more about roasting, I think I'm going to need to
upgrade my who system to really appreciate the fruit of my labors.
~carlos

14) From: Brett Mason
Oh My Goodness, I was thinking Rake.....
Working on the tool names stil
Brett
  RWA
On 3/5/07, Mejia, Carlos  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

15) From: raymanowen
"...it's not the same as the dust that flies everywhere with static cling."
Ahhh- that's called "Static Fling." Every coffee particle is created by
being ripped away from the whole bean mass- leaves them with the same
charge. Like charges repel, hence the Static Fling.
If you inspect the grounds, you'll see that the grinder is just an
overpriced, under designed weed whacker
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976

16) From:
Brett,
I suppose it depends on the hoe he finds to go along and study with...
---- Brett Mason  wrote: 
<Snip>

17) From: Floyd Lozano
if you're getting a 12-15 sec pull, that seems to beg for a finer grind and
/ or a heavier tamp to slow down the extraction a bit.  I keep hearing 20-25
sec (count from the time you hit the switch or the time you see the first
drop) being more ideal.
On 3/6/07, pchforever  wrote:
<Snip>

18) From: stereoplegic
you could make that portafilter bottomless. the basket is a standard 
(albeit 52-53mm) one. the rubber and plastic inside the pf (underneath 
the basket when it's in place) are what create the pressure. you might 
even be able to disassemble the pf to remove said pressurizing elements. 
also, you can search online for saeco (the manufacturer, there should be 
a badge on the back of the machine) non-pressurized portafilters.
carlos.mejia wrote:
<Snip>

19) From: John McCormick
Appreciate the help ... I just got some pre-ground espresso coffee as a
"test" to determine if my grind in the cheap Cuisinart was suspect ... and I
noted a longer delay between initiating the extraction and the flow out of
the portafilter.  The taste was much stronger also (of course that is a
function of the coffee itself).  Since I don't have an eye loupe or
microscope, I'll just have to examine by rubbing my grinds between my thumb
and fingers versus the store bought espresso coffee.  I may be headed back
to my whirly grinder until I can justify a espresso-worthy grinder.  The
timing from initiation of the shot to the start of the flow is an
interesting metric! ... first I've heard about it ... this list is a great
help.  PS: I just got a Thor Tamper from SM on Monday ... so packing the
shot is now a true pleasure!!!  LOVE THE THOR!

20) From: Brett Mason
John, don't be fooled...
The taste is stronger because the
  even grind + equal distribution + tamp
means the water is infused through the puck, and not channeled around
the grounds by way of the
  largest pieces + least-resistance channel....
Hoping to help.  Certainly this wilkl be corrected by others, but for
free, that's my story...
Brett
  RWA
On 3/7/07, John McCormick  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

21) From: Howell Ite
I have the same Cuisinart grinder to grind for drip and a Mazzer Mini to grind for espresso.  The Cuisinart does have a static issue.  But despite the plastic grounds catcher the Mini still manages to get coffee dust all over the counter.  I wipe down the counter after each grind and sic the Shark on the whole counter once a week.
   
  Paul
John McCormick  wrote:
  Being a new espresso machine user (long-time french press user), I'd like
some feedback (solution) on an annoyance in my espresso preparation
procedures (pardon my engineering-based terminology).
Until about a month ago, I used to Whirly-Grind into zip-lock bags and
then as part of the individual cup preparation, spoon from the zip-lock into
my FP. Now I have a $40 Sams Club Burr Grinder (Cuisinart) ... and for each
portafilter load, I spoon from the plastic Grinder Bin into the PF. RESULT
is a "Loading Zone Dust" cleanup effort for each shot.
My Question, would a good grinder, such as the doserless Rocky, eliminate
this dust on the counter? For that matter would a doser-type Rocky (or
other grinder) also eliminate this annoyance? ... or is this just the way it
is???


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