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Topic: *$ barista non-pressure portafilter (WAS: +Portafilter Loading Zone Dust) (20 msgs / 770 lines)
1) From: Mike Koenig
Carlos,
If you call the parts department at Saeco USA, you should still be
able to get the non-pressurized portafilter for your machine, since
they still make their version of it.  I had the Saeco Aroma (the same
machine as the *$ Barista) for years and got a non-pressurized PF for
about $15.
You can pull fairly decent shots with that machine (once you get rid
of the silly pressurized gadget), if you have a good grinder and learn
to temperature surf it.  Using the pressurized PF, I would either get
very fast pulls, or I would choke it with a slightly finer grind..
there was no happy medium.
After I got a Silvia, I was still using mine as an office machine
(using pods) until a few weeks ago.  I broke my non-pressure PF, (one
of the things that led to its demise) otherwise I'd send it to you.
--mike
On 3/5/07, Mejia, Carlos  wrote:
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2) From: Mejia, Carlos
Thanks for the info Mike.  I will investigate getting a non pressurized
PF since it sounds like that would help. In researching this, I've read
that you can remove the small pin from the center of the PPF and it
works like a normal PF.  Has anyone tried that before?  ~carlos

3) From: Mike Koenig
Carlos,
You could probablly pull some pieces out of the pressurized PF,  but
you are still dealing with a small hole in the bottom (unless you
drill it out).  From what I remember, if you remove too many pieces,
you end up with espresso everywhere inside the PF.  The other problem
is, that PF is very hard to clean, there are lots of places where
coffee oils build up that are next to impossible to remove (even
soaking in Urnex).
--mike
On 3/7/07, Mejia, Carlos  wrote:
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4) From: L. Michael Fraley, MD
Hi Carlos,
I have a friend with the same machine.  He replaced his PF with the one  
in this link.   
https://www.shop.partsguru.com/displayProductDocument.hg? 
productId03&sourceCode=froogle
We found it at a sight with a cheaper price.  I am unable to find that  
link at this time.  It works very well.
Michael
On Mar 8, 2007, at 10:05 AM, Mike Koenig wrote:
Carlos,
You could probablly pull some pieces out of the pressurized PF,  but
you are still dealing with a small hole in the bottom (unless you
drill it out).  From what I remember, if you remove too many pieces,
you end up with espresso everywhere inside the PF.  The other problem
is, that PF is very hard to clean, there are lots of places where
coffee oils build up that are next to impossible to remove (even
soaking in Urnex).
--mike
On 3/7/07, Mejia, Carlos  wrote:
<Snip>

5) From: L. Michael Fraley, MD
Also, Carlos, you can read this:  http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/199377 There is a 
discussion about this replacement PF.  They tell you how to email the 
company for a less expensive price.  I actually think that is how my 
friend got his.  In this discussion, they mention getting a basket as 
well.  My friend did this, but then found the old PF basket to be 
identical.  So, you do not really need to buy the basket.
Michael
On Mar 8, 2007, at 10:05 AM, Mike Koenig wrote:
Carlos,
You could probablly pull some pieces out of the pressurized PF,  but
you are still dealing with a small hole in the bottom (unless you
drill it out).  From what I remember, if you remove too many pieces,
you end up with espresso everywhere inside the PF.  The other problem
is, that PF is very hard to clean, there are lots of places where
coffee oils build up that are next to impossible to remove (even
soaking in Urnex).
--mike
On 3/7/07, Mejia, Carlos  wrote:
<Snip>

6) From: Mejia, Carlos
Michael,
Thanks for the help!  I'm excited about converting my pressurized PF
into a 'naked' PF.  This was recommended in another thread and looks
fairly easy.  I need to read up on it a bit, but from what I've heard so
far I think it would be leaps/bounds better than this silly PPF that I'm
using today.
~carlos

7) From: L. Michael Fraley, MD
You bet, Carlos.  I would love to get a naked PF.  I could easily order 
one, but they are pricey.  But, since you want to change yours 
anyway... sounds like a great idea.
Michael
On Mar 8, 2007, at 5:44 PM, Mejia, Carlos wrote:
Michael,
Thanks for the help!  I'm excited about converting my pressurized PF
into a 'naked' PF.  This was recommended in another thread and looks
fairly easy.  I need to read up on it a bit, but from what I've heard so
far I think it would be leaps/bounds better than this silly PPF that I'm
using today.
~carlos

8) From: Michael Wascher
There are two types of portafilter supplied with these machines.
One type is spring loaded. When it is on the machine if you move it to the
left & release the handle will move back to the right. Remove the three
screws from the bottom. You'll see a plastic assembly with a spring loaded
plunger (a spiral coiled spring). The assembly is held into the portafilter
with a large round spring that snaps into a groove inside the portafilter.
Look for the end of the spring, a bit of it sticks out. Grab the end with a
strong long-nosed pliers, pull it to the inside, and the whole assembly will
pop out.
The second type isn't spring loaded. You manually push it to the left when
the whine of the pump tells you the time is right. For this one you can just
start it off pushed to the left and it won't affect the pressure.
However, you can't see the bottom of the basket with these portafilters. The
basket isn't pressurized any more but you can't monitor flow across the
basket.
--MikeW
On 3/7/07, Mejia, Carlos  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but
planning is indispensable." --Dwight D. Eisenhower

9) From: Mejia, Carlos
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Mine is the second type you refer to below.  I would like to figure out
if I can drill out the base and create a 'naked pf' but I don't know if
I can or not with all the plastic stuff on the base of the unit.  But I
will try just putting it in without the first step of waiting for the
hum and moving it to the left.  Maybe that'll help.  ~carlos
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Michael
Wascher
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 6:04 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: *$ barista non-pressure portafilter (WAS: +Portafilter
Loading Zone Dust)
 
There are two types of portafilter supplied with these machines.
One type is spring loaded. When it is on the machine if you move it to
the left & release the handle will move back to the right. Remove the
three screws from the bottom. You'll see a plastic assembly with a
spring loaded plunger (a spiral coiled spring). The assembly is held
into the portafilter with a large round spring that snaps into a groove
inside the portafilter. Look for the end of the spring, a bit of it
sticks out. Grab the end with a strong long-nosed pliers, pull it to the
inside, and the whole assembly will pop out.
The second type isn't spring loaded. You manually push it to the left
when the whine of the pump tells you the time is right. For this one you
can just start it off pushed to the left and it won't affect the
pressure.
However, you can't see the bottom of the basket with these portafilters.
The basket isn't pressurized any more but you can't monitor flow across
the basket.
--MikeW

10) From: Brett Mason
Carlos, mine was the same as yours.  Yes you CAN do it...  if you WANT
to drill it out....  Physically it can be done, rather easily.
Frankly the little hole in the middle makes a great pilot hole for the
hole saw...
Cheers,
Brett
  RWA
On 3/8/07, Mejia, Carlos  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

11) From: Mike Koenig
Regarding the "2nd type" of the pressurized Saeco PF,  when the handle
is pushed to the left, ALL flow is stopped (you can stall the pump
even with an empty basket).  When you move it to the left, the valve
opens, but provides back pressure, which is the "crema enhancing"
feature.  The theory is that grind isn't supposed to matter, you could
put a farily coarse grind, whole beans, cat litter, etc in the basket
and still get thin bitter crema, because the valve is maintaining
pressure on the puck.
The instructions that came with mine state that you should lock the
handle to the right, until the pump starts to stall, and then move it
to the left.
The newer spring loaded one behaves similarly,  but the valve
automatically opens at a certain pressure (something like 9 bar).
Taking a holesaw to it might be the best option,  though the holesaw
might cost you more than buying the non pressurized one.
--mike
On 3/9/07, Mejia, Carlos  wrote:
<Snip>

12) From: Mejia, Carlos
So, before I do this, I'm picturing the end result... the filter basket
will be somewhat recessed up inside the plastic body which is actually
an extension of the handle.  It will not be easy to see the crema
forming on the bottom as I've seen on the many videos posted on youtube
and other sites.  When you modified your PPF to a bottomless did it
improve the quality of the shot?  ~carlos

13) From: Brett Mason
Carlos,
Could easily look up at the exposed basket, see the water spray everywhere...
Re ground, a little finer, tamped a whole lot better, than watched
magic...  The bottom suddenly gets moist, then brown droplets, then a
gush where crema forms across the bottom and falls down - a lot like
my first caramel shake being poured from a frosty stainless blender
cup into a glass....
Seen plenty of both since....  Now it's not rocket science: if you
can't see enough of the basket, then find a hack saw, dremel, file and
a wire brush.  And remember it's really easy to REMOVE brass....
Brett
On 3/9/07, Mejia, Carlos  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

14) From: Eddie Dove
Carlos,
The bottomless (naked, crotchless) portafilter works exactly like any other
non-pressurized portafilter, which in and of itself will not change the
quality of the shot.  Making your pressurized portafilter bottomless will
removed that which makes a false cream.
The improvement gleaned by using a bottomless portafilter is a result of you
being able to witness the entire extraction process and then adjust your
technique.  The naked portafilter is a diagnostic device that allows YOU to
improve the shot.
Hope this helps ...
Eddie
-- 
Docendo Discimus
My Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafehttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 3/9/07, Mejia, Carlos  wrote:">http://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 3/9/07, Mejia, Carlos  wrote:
<Snip>

15) From: Barry Luterman
It improves the shots in as much as it improves your tamping skills

16) From: Mejia, Carlos
Alrighty then!  Thanks guys.  I think I'll give it a try this weekend.
I've got some Monkey blend arriving today.. that'll be a great way to
try it. I think I'll have to have a caramel shake too!  I've never had
one of those either.  ~carlos

17) From: jim gundlach
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It also removes one of the more difficult to clean parts exposed to  
the extraction.
      Pecan Jim
On Mar 9, 2007, at 1:53 PM, Eddie Dove wrote:
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It also removes one of the more =
difficult to clean parts exposed to the extraction.      =
 Pecan Jim
On Mar 9, 2007, at 1:53 PM, Eddie Dove =
wrote:
Carlos, The bottomless (naked, crotchless) = portafilter works exactly like any other non-pressurized portafilter, = which in and of itself will not change the quality of the shot.  = Making your pressurized portafilter bottomless will removed that which = makes a false cream. The improvement gleaned by using a = bottomless portafilter is a result of you being able to witness the = entire extraction process and then adjust your technique.  The naked = portafilter is a diagnostic device that allows YOU to improve the shot. = Hope this helps ... Eddie -- Docendo = Discimus My Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene = Cafe http://southcoastcof=feeroaster.blogspot.com/ Sweet Maria's List - Searchable = Archives http://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/ On 3/9/07, Mejia, Carlos <carlos.mejia> = wrote: So, before I do this, I'm picturing the end result... the = filter basket will be somewhat recessed up inside the plastic body = which is actually an extension of the handle.  It will not be = easy to see the crema forming on the bottom as I've seen on the many = videos posted on youtube and other sites.  When you modified your = PPF to a bottomless did it improve the quality of the = shot?  ~carlos

18) From: Mejia, Carlos
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
How does the 'false crema' get formed?  Is it a result of some stiring
or aeration that happens in the 'bowl' surrounding the filter cup?
Pardon me if I'm not using acceptable terminology...I'm new to this,
even though I've been making espresso for years...just learning more of
the technical details needed to get to coffee nirvana!   The benefit of
the naked portafilter (NPF?) sounds right up my alley... I need all the
help I can get!   ~carlos
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Eddie Dove
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 11:53 AM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: *$ barista non-pressure portafilter (WAS: +Portafilter
Loading Zone Dust)
 
Carlos,
The bottomless (naked, crotchless) portafilter works exactly like any
other non-pressurized portafilter, which in and of itself will not
change the quality of the shot.  Making your pressurized portafilter
bottomless will removed that which makes a false cream. 
The improvement gleaned by using a bottomless portafilter is a result of
you being able to witness the entire extraction process and then adjust
your technique.  The naked portafilter is a diagnostic device that
allows YOU to improve the shot. 
Hope this helps ...
Eddie
-- 
Docendo Discimus
My Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafehttp://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
On 3/9/07, Mejia, Carlos  wrote:
So, before I do this, I'm picturing the end result... the filter basket
will be somewhat recessed up inside the plastic body which is actually
an extension of the handle.  It will not be easy to see the crema 
forming on the bottom as I've seen on the many videos posted on youtube
and other sites.  When you modified your PPF to a bottomless did it
improve the quality of the shot?  ~carlos

19) From: Eddie Dove
Carlos,
You are on target ... aeration is a good way of thinking about it.  Making
lots of tiny bubbles that produces something that looks like crema results
in no improvement.  The genuine crema you will undoubtedly learn to produce
will have you enamored; for it is an elixir of the essence of the roasted
bean.
Don't worry about the nomenclature ... it will come and if we don't
understand, we will ask more kind questions.  All of us, including the
veterans continue to learn.  Just enjoy the ride and don't let it frustrate
you.
Eddie
-- 
Docendo Discimus
My Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafehttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 3/9/07, Mejia, Carlos  wrote:">http://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 3/9/07, Mejia, Carlos  wrote:
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20) From: Mejia, Carlos
Well... it will probably be more of a challenge for me with my current
set up.  I'm using an old Braun burr grinder and a *$ Barista.  For
espresso I always just grind at the finest setting.  Don't know if this
is best or not. My extraction on this machine 90% of the time is about
12-15 seconds.  I never wanted to go coarser because the shot would just
pull faster.  The grind feels very fine (like flour).  I don't know if a
better grinder would make it finer or maybe just more consistent.  When
I look at the grind under ~100x there's a LOT of various sizes.
My Barista machine has been a workhorse for me with almost daily use for
about 10 yrs.  It seems work just as well as it always did (for what
that's worth!).  I've only recently learned to check the temp of water
at the extraction and when I did it was ~185 deg.  I played around with
the steamer, temp surfing and when I pulled a shot with hotter water the
taste really improved. So, I'm going to see if I can use a thermometer
to establish a process that yields the   So now I'm going to modify my
pressurized PF to stip it naked (:-) and learn more about the effect of
dosing/tamping on the shot quality.  Looking forward to the journey!
~carlos


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