HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Clover in action... (11 msgs / 409 lines)
1) From: miKe mcKoffee
Took a couple videos of the Clover in action over at the Stumptown Annex a
few months back and think I forgot to upload them! Here they are now:http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1531274948360044969http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid29997733100277586
Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/

2) From: Les
Thanks Mike,
I enjoyed the video.  I just talked to a coffee friend who had a "clover"
cup of coffee in Chicago at Intelligentsia.  He said he liked the cup of vac
brewed that he had of the same coffee there better than the cup that was
brewed in the Clover.  He was there on a business trip and enjoyed his time
at Intelligentsia.  So how was the coffee out of the Clover in your
experience?
Les
On 3/8/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>

3) From: Tom Ulmer
So was the resulting cup any good?

4) From: Marty Wooten
Mike,
Thank you for the video. It is nice to see it in action. 
M=
arty
----- Original Message ----
From: miKe mcKoffee 
To: homeroast
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2=
007 3:39:28 PM
Subject: +Clover in action...
Took a couple videos=
 of the Clover in action over at the Stumptown Annex a
few months back an=
d think I forgot to upload them! Here they are now:http://video.googl=e.com/videoplay?docid=-1531274948360044969http://video.google.com/v=ideoplay?docid=1229997733100277586
Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
U=
RL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.com=cast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htm
Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is =
a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I kno=
w not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foo=
t steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable=
 Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/=homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.=com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast
To change your personal list settings (dig=
est options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillist=info.html#personalsettings

5) From: Mejia, Carlos
Very interesting. It looks like a similar process to an Aeropress...no?
Let's see $8,000 vs. $28... decisions, decisions!  ~carlos

6) From: Brian Kamnetz
What does the Clover do that a pour-over or TV doesn't? What is unique about
the Clover's performance?
Thanks,
Brian
On 3/8/07, Tom Ulmer  wrote:
<Snip>

7) From: miKe mcKoffee
Hmmm, what makes the Clover so unique. Each cup can be brewed to multiple
very specific programmable savable parameters, multiple profiles, VERY
specific. IIRC can set the brew temp in 0.1f increments (within a wide range
too), set the specific infusion time to the second, and the desired brew
volume. Also has multiple choices of filter screen meshes, but not a
"programmable" item. 
You could not come close to replicating the Clover's capabilities with the
TV.
You "could" probably come close to replicating the Clover's capabilities
manually with very good temp measuring equipment. And hassle.
Obviously the Clover is not designed for the home market (unless your last
name is Gates;-). It is designed for very precise replicatable individual
brewing in a commercial environment with ease. I didn't video the auto-clean
cycle either!
The cup? Truth be told the cup I had at Stumptown left me wanting, brewed
too weak for my tastes, thin tasting what should have been excellent COE
Guat'. A short time later at the NW Regional Barista Competition the Clover
rep was there with a Clover of course. He brewed some excellent cups. As
with anything takes good working knowledge of your equipment to really make
it sing. Plus individual tastes very of course. Plus in Stumptown's defense
my cup was ground with a Virtuoso grinder I'd been playing with, as in taken
apart and put back together, rather than their normal grinder. So the grind
was off for the brewing parameters but he wanted to make sure the Virtuoso
still worked after my fiddling with the for sale display item:-)
Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/	From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Brian Kamnetz
	Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 2:51 PM
	
	What does the Clover do that a pour-over or TV doesn't? What is
unique about the Clover's performance?
	
	Thanks,
	
	Brian

8) From: Sandra Andina
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Have yet to try the Intelligentsia at Millennium Park, but I can't  
imagine a Clover delivering a cup much better than one from an  
Aeropress (albeit hotter).
On Mar 8, 2007, at 5:28 PM, miKe mcKoffee wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
www.sandyandina.com
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
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Have yet to try the =
Intelligentsia at Millennium Park, but I can't imagine a Clover =
delivering a cup much better than one from an Aeropress (albeit =
hotter).
On Mar 8, 2007, at 5:28 PM, miKe mcKoffee =
wrote:
Hmmm, what makes the Clover so = unique. Each cup can be brewed to multiplevery = specific programmable savable parameters, multiple profiles, = VERYspecific. IIRC can set the brew = temp in 0.1f increments (within a wide rangetoo), set the specific infusion time to the second, = and the desired brewvolume. Also has multiple = choices of filter screen meshes, but not a  You could not = come close to replicating the Clover's capabilities with theTV. Sandy = Andinawww.sandyandina.comwww.myspace.com/sandyandina=

= = --Apple-Mail-4--307358047--

9) From: raymanowen
Long ago, the price of a cup of coffee was increased from a nickel to a
dime. The diners served cream, when requested, in a little pitcher called a
creamer. Sugar on the table was in a glass fluted jar that had a flap over
the port in the screw-on lid.
My folks had a glass vacuum pot, but I remember the metal vacuum pots on the
counter in front of the kitchen at the diner on my paper route. Now,the cup
costs...
Novo Coffee have the plunger pots in the video, but they don't get used for
my cuppa. They serve you a just-started press if you want the best of the
nectar.
At 20g of grounds per 8oz cup, my Coffee Cave would be out of business "mo
scosh."
Oh, did you notice the hum (how could you not?) when the Ditting was
running? PSC motor, single phase power. Small three phase motors like that
just make a "Bing" when started, and run silently.
For a commercial power customer with three phase power available, some
mindless cheapskate got a single phase motor in the grinder.
To me, that defines the whole operation, push button functions and all. How
fast are they trying to amortize the Orangutan-proof shop?
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
*
My Polish friend Mike in Chicago **makes funnies like this:*
King Arthur's castle was under attack by a fearsome dragon. He called for
his best knight to slay the dragon. But all of the horses were frightened.
The best mount they could find was an arthritic, one-eyed Great Dane.
King Arthur looked at the dog and said, "I'll kill the dragon myself. I
wouldn't send a knight out on a dog like this."
On 3/8/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976

10) From: Branden Byers
I tried the Idido Misty Valley a few months ago in Intelligentsia at
Millenium Park and it was absolutely amazing. The brew parameters were
spot on and I can honestly say it was the best cup of coffee I have
ever drank. Now, at the same time, I have been able to brew a very
similiar cup profile of the Misty Valley homeroast with my Yama Vacuum
Pot.
The Clover allows for ultimate repeatability but it does take a lot of
testing on a specific coffee to find the sweet spot or possible
multiple sweet spots. This just doesn't seem possible to do with an
Aeropress. I do, however feel that a lot of experimentation can be
done with a Vac Pot to produce an amazing sweet spot for brewed
coffee.
In January, I tried two more cups made from a Clover while I was up in
Minnesota at Kopplin's Coffee (an excellent new shop using Paradise
Roasters). I had both the Sumatra Lake Tawar and the Guatemala
Huehuetenango Finca Vista Hermosa and was not overly impressed with
either. They were much closer to a french press profile than Vac Pot.
I think this goes to show how the Clover takes time and experience to
harness the true potential and this new coffee shop had only received
their two Clover machines a month prior.
So mixed results with the Clover but the espresso at both
Intelligentsia and Kopplin's Coffee were excellent!
Branden Byers
On 3/9/07, Sandra Andina  wrote:
<Snip>

11) From: Scott Marquardt
On 3/9/07, Branden Byers  wrote:
<Snip>
Hmm.
Repeatability and the ability to dial in something specific are the
parity concerns here.
Duration of the brewing cycle is fairly easy to both dial in and
repeat, with the Aero.
Grind level and duration of brew cycle are simple enough to dial in
with an Aeropress, and be consistent (repeatable) about.
The Aeropress allows for many different press dynamics, but each one
is fairly repeatable with practice. IMO this particular issue is key,
because technique and method variations offer a lot of latitude for
variation in cup character. On this matter, unfortunately I don't
think one could be sure a cup is going to be repeatable from brewer to
brewer; different people will not achieve identical results. But I do
believe that one person can consistently create identical cups, from
the standpoint at least of this challenging aspect.
The Clover chamber is thermally controlled, which isn't true of an
Aeropress. My habit in recent weeks has been to preheat the Aero.
That's simple to do using the inverted method, though the "head" end
of the device doesn't get fully thermed this way. What would be even
better, if a coffee shop were to use Aeropresses, would be to "store
them hot" -- to have some kind of a preheater. This could be as simple
as a pot of hot water that also suffices as a final rinse after each
brew's cleanup.
I think the thermal consistency is the tough issue, though. Still, I'm
not sure that it's the most important determinant of cup character.
However, it's impossible for the brewer to compensate for thermal
variations if s/he's unaware of them, and alas there's no way to
really be aware of your brewing environment is off by 5 degrees unless
you're actually sensing temp for that environment -- and even I refuse
to hack an Aero so far as to mount a thermocouple to measure slurry
temps.   ;-)
- Scott


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