HomeRoast Digest


Topic: "Bad Bean Taste" (11 msgs / 471 lines)
1) From: Phil Bergman
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
  Group,
  Over the years I've learned to recognize the taste of "bad beans" in
coffee.  It all started when I tried to store twenty kilograms of roasted
Costrican coffee I got on a trip to Central America 25 years ago.  As the
months went on, the beans started to go bad and I learned to tell which
mason jars had that bad taste.  Since then, I only occasionally find it when
I buy roasted coffee at coffee distributors.   If I mention it later (after
cupping), clerks look at me like I'm crazy and just ignore my comments.  I
recently found it in multiple indiidual roasts of Ethiopian coffee that I
purchased green.  So, here's my question.  Have others learned how to
recognize this taste?  It sure doesn't make my day when I come across that
reminiscent taste.
  Phil

2) From: Phil Bergman
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
No comments from anyone?
Phil

3) From: Lynne Biziewski
I can't tell the difference whether the beans are bad, or stale. Maybe what
I thought was stale in the past, may have been bad beans.
I do know when something is really good - and I stay away from anything that
makes my face crunch up after drinking it. That's about it for me...
Lynne
On 3/15/07, Phil Bergman  wrote:
<Snip>

4) From: Larry Johnson
I have some Sulawesi Toraja that I bought in 2005 and I roasted last week,
and I didn't get any bad tastes from them. I've had several beans that were
almost as old that came out fine, at least to my taste (unless I screwed up
the roast). I think maybe my coarse palate is not up to detecting off
flavors caused by stale greens.
As for roasted beans going bad, to me they just start tasting like cardboard
after a while, or like coffee that's been brewed way too weak.
Any help?
On 3/15/07, Lynne Biziewski  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Larry J
If this is coffee, please bring me some tea; but if this is tea, please
bring me some coffee.
  - Abraham Lincoln

5) From: MichaelB
Phil,
There are probably no comments because many of us who buy greens from Sweet
Maria's and homeroast them have not had your experience. It's a testimony
to Tom's skills selecting the coffees we buy and roast. He gets to
experience the bad beans and we don't. This linkhttp://sweetmarias.com/coffee.reference.htmlshows the scrutiny that these
coffees undergo before they are offered to us.
On 3/15/07, Phil Bergman  wrote:
<Snip>
--
MichaelB

6) From: Phil Bergman
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
The bad bean taste is a definite funky, off-taste, undesirable experience.
It is not the same as stale beans.  Once you recognize it, you don't forget
it.  I've only experienced it once with green beans (out approx. 100
different lots), but perhaps 10 times in 20 years from places like Pete's,
Starbucks, etc.  I suspect any professionals out there know exactly what I'm
talking about. I'd love to know if such beans have an off-color, different
appearance, etc.  I've heard that only a few bad beans will ruin a pounds
worth of coffee beans.
Phil

7) From: Tom Ulmer
The January/February issue of Roast Magazine had an article you may find
informative.

8) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
If you mean a black bean,they show up all over the place, even in 
some nice coffees. electronic color sorting and hand sorting should 
remove them, but I have seen true black beans in some absolutely 
pristine coffees. Nothing's perfect. One stinker in a brewed batch is 
unmistakable - amazing how 1 of perhaps 200-300 beans used in a brew 
can let it's presence be known so clearly! A true black bean is one 
that developed and then died on the tree, before picking and 
processing. Physically, it resembles a normal bean except in it's 
pitch black color. I had a talk with a coffee agronomist who pointed 
out that to have a seed die but remain structurally sound was the 
result of a fungal attack, a yeast fermentation, or microbial damage. 
Each produces a slightly different form of a black bean, but similar 
cup results. A "stinker" can also be a black bean, and these are due 
to problems in processing or sorting. A sinker is over-fermented and 
it is a very powerful defect too, can ruin a whole batch of coffee 
easily. Stinkers can be sorted out under ultraviolet, which is what 
they are now doing at Daterra in Brazil (that lot of Yellow Bourbon 
is coming to us soon).
By the way, a worse defect to face in evaluating coffee is the 
phenolic defect. In this, the green seed is identical to a healthy 
one. No color sorting or visual method can remove it. By size and 
density it is identical to good coffee: Colombia has a big problem 
with this defect. In the Cup of Excellence finals last time I was 
there we kicked out 3 of the top 10 lots. This never happens. 
Usually, defect coffees are kicked out in the early rounds. But 
phenolic is stealthy and can occur in very good, expertly processed 
coffee.
Anyway, there is a higher percentage of these in bad coffee for sure, 
but they can occur occasionally in nice lots. If you REALLY want to 
experience what I mean by bad coffee, we have our new lot of Sulawesi 
GooGoo Muck - so named for extreme swampy flavor - that is our new 
Thumb's Down coffee selection at the end of the list.
Tom
--
                   "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
            Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting  -  Tom & Maria
                      http://www.sweetmarias.com                Thompson Owen george_at_sweetmarias.com
     Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
             phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom_at_sweetmarias.com

9) From: Bob
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Phil,
I noticed some in some NON-Tom Kenyans I purchased a while back. Sour =
and or funky notes in otherwise tasty roasts. Since then I have been =
very cautious in gleaning out any broken or odd looking beans in any of =
my purchases. If it looks crappy, then I suspect it will roast crappy. 
Bob

10) From: Justin Marquez
On 3/15/07, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
 wrote:
<Snip>
Tom - Is that before roasting or after?
Also, I occasionally see beans that are sort of hollowed out like a
shell. Are these OK?
What about beans that are deformed and gnarly looking?
Or ones that are just broken? (Do they run a risk of getting a higher
roast level?)
And, ones that are noticeably lighter in color after the roast is done?
How many of these sould be sorted out?
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)

11) From: jim gundlach
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I think you may be talking about what some call "stinkers".  One  
stinker can ruin all the beans ground with it and contaminate a  
grinder for a while.  I have had a couple of "stinker" beans ruin a  
few shots and required the cleaning of the grinder over the years.   
One of the things I like about heat gun wok roasting is that I spend  
enough time looking at the beans that I can cull out any that look  
bad.  I just roasted about two pounds of Uganda and I removed three  
small black beans.  I believe all stinkers are small and black but  
not all small and black beans are stinkers.  Just to be safe, I  
remove all the small black ones I find.  This obviously cannot be  
applied to aged coffees, but it has been so long since I have had one  
of those that I have almost forgotten what they are like.
      Pecan Jim
On Mar 15, 2007, at 10:27 AM, Phil Bergman wrote:
<Snip>
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I think you may be talking about =
what some call "stinkers".  One stinker can ruin all the beans ground =
with it and contaminate a grinder for a while.  I have had a couple of =
"stinker" beans ruin a few shots and required the cleaning of the =
grinder over the years.  One of the things I like about heat gun wok =
roasting is that I spend enough time looking at the beans that I can =
cull out any that look bad.  I just roasted about two pounds of Uganda =
and I removed three small black beans.  I believe all stinkers are =
small and black but not all small and black beans are stinkers.  Just =
to be safe, I remove all the small black ones I find.  This obviously =
cannot be applied to aged coffees, but it has been so long since I have =
had one of those that I have almost forgotten what they are like.  =
   Pecan Jim
On Mar 15, 2007, at 10:27 AM, Phil Bergman =
wrote:
The bad bean taste is a = definite funky, off-taste, undesirable experience.  It is not the same = as stale beans.  Once you recognize it, you don't forget it.  I've = only experienced it once with green beans (out approx. 100 different = lots), but perhaps 10 times in 20 years from places like Pete's, = Starbucks, etc.  I suspect any professionals out there know exactly = what I'm talking about. I'd love to know if such beans have an = off-color, different appearance, etc.  I've heard that only a few = bad beans will ruin a pounds worth of coffee beans. = Phil    = -----Original = Message----- From: homeroast-admin = [mailto:homeroast-adm= in]On Behalf Of = MichaelB Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 7:59 = AM To: homeroast= s.com Subject: Re: +RE: "Bad Bean = Taste" Phil,   = There are probably no comments because many of us who buy = greens from Sweet Maria's and homeroast them have not had your = experience. It's a testimony to Tom's skills selecting the coffees = we buy and roast. He gets to experience the bad beans and we = don't. This link http://sweetmarias.com/coffee.reference.html shows= the scrutiny that these coffees undergo before they are offered to = us.   On 3/15/07, Phil Bergman <phil.bergman > wrote: = No comments from = anyone? Phil = = -----Original Message----- From: homeroast-admin [mailto:homeroast-admin] On = Behalf Of Phil Bergman Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 = 5:07 PM To: homeroast = Subject: +RE: "Bad Bean Taste" =   = Group, Over the years = I've learned to recognize the taste of "bad beans" in coffee.  = It all started when I tried to store twenty kilograms of = roasted Costrican coffee I got on a trip to Central America 25 = years ago.  As the months went on, the beans started to go bad = and I learned to tell which mason jars had that bad taste.  = Since then, I only occasionally find it when I buy roasted coffee at = coffee distributors.   If I mention it later (after cupping), = clerks look at me like I'm crazy and just ignore my comments.  I = recently found it in multiple indiidual roasts of Ethiopian = coffee that I purchased green.  So, here's my question.  = Have others learned how to recognize this taste?  It sure = doesn't make my day when I come across that reminiscent taste. = Phil   =
-- MichaelB = = --Apple-Mail-5-443060799--


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