HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Wait Before Grinding? (56 msgs / 1814 lines)
1) From: Eddie Dove
I need to roast, grind and ship some coffee to my mother for her birthday; I
will have to vacuum seal it.  This really makes me shudder!  Shipping whole
beans and a grinder is not an option as both will remain on the counter and
be willed back to me.
Does grinding coffee immediately after roasting effect the coffee's ability
to develop flavors?  Should I roast, wait a few days then grind and ship?
Eddie
-- 
Docendo Discimus
My Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafehttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/">http://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/

2) From: miKe mcKoffee
I'd do none of those options. Instead send fresh roast whole bean and a
grinder. Even a whirly chop fresh ground will yield far superior results
than grinding in advance and corresponding staling of the ground coffee.
Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/	From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Eddie Dove
	Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 11:13 AM
	To: Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting Mailing List
	Subject: +Wait Before Grinding?
	
	I need to roast, grind and ship some coffee to my mother for her
birthday; I will have to vacuum seal it.  This really makes me shudder!
Shipping whole beans and a grinder is not an option as both will remain on
the counter and be willed back to me.  
	
	Does grinding coffee immediately after roasting effect the coffee's
ability to develop flavors?  Should I roast, wait a few days then grind and
ship?
	
	Eddie
	-- 
	Docendo Discimus
	My Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafe 
http://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/	Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archives
http://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/

3) From: Floyd Lozano
Grind the beans in a vacuum and then send them.  Flush the post office with
nitrogen to insure freshness.
-F
On 3/26/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>

4) From: Eddie Dove
Pay attention miKe!  Did you read about that not being an option?
You do grind, vac seal and freeze for Debbie to take to work, correct?
Eddie
On 3/26/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>

5) From: Tom Ulmer
Eddie-
Make it as nice of an experience as possible. I'd go for which ever way
smells the best when opened - which I believe would be to grind after a
rest.

6) From:
Eddie:
I would wait a couple/more plus/- and then ship the ground beans. They will then be about ready for your Mom to use.
ginny
---- Eddie Dove  wrote: 
<Snip>

7) From:
I agree with Tom as I just posted. Remember you have that great tool to vac seal with...
gin
---- Tom Ulmer  wrote: 
<Snip>

8) From:
MIkE:
go back and re-read some of your own posts...
ginny
queen of cups!!!
---- miKe mcKoffee  wrote: 
<Snip>

9) From: Brett Mason
How about a solution that will make everyone happy...
Roast your favorite bean
buy a special "Easter" coffee mug
Rest for 48 hours
Grind and brew your favorite cup
Put it in the mug
Drink
Don't wash the mug
Send the mug to your mom and tell her how good the coffee was
Send flowers!
Brett
On 3/26/07, Eddie Dove  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

10) From:
Eddie:
Mike picks through his beans, roasts to his taste, grinds, brews, takes a sip and if he hates it he vac seals the bRew for debbie...
ginny
queen of cups
---- Eddie Dove  wrote: 
<Snip>

11) From: Angelo
I agree. As I've gotten older I've gotten more and more tired of 
leading horses to water. If someone is interested, I wait for them to 
ask me, and, if I see that they are willing to do some work, I will 
help them 100%. I, like God, help those who help themselves..
I never trust any person (or organization) that proselytizes about 
anything. To me, it shows doubt on their part about what they are "selling"...
Brett is right.. Send flowers, but make sure they are dead. Many 
people hate having to keep those things alive...:-)
<Snip>

12) From: miKe mcKoffee
Ginny's snide remarks aside, an integral part of making the little
pre-ground per brew vac bags for Debi to take to work is freezing them.
Contrary to Ginny's remark I roast specifically for Debi's taste preferences
as well as mine, which sometimes vary sometimes are the same. 
There's a big difference between transporting about an hour from home
freezer to work freezer versus mailing. Just vac sealing has limited effect
retarding staling pre-ground while "hermetically sealing" and freezing has
great effect. 
Years ago made the decision to not ship pre-ground regardless who it was
family or otherwise and have posted as much numerous times over the years.
OTH I have shipped/gifted whole beans and grinders. "Why" it's not an option
for your mother to grind her beans I don't know. Maybe it's a
health/physical issue maybe not. If it's simply 'cuz "set in her ways"
personally I would send her something else since she likely wouldn't
appreciate home roast if not grinding per brew now.
Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
 
<Snip>

13) From: Leo Zick
Wow. a transcendent being!!
nice to know those above us enjoy coffee too.
Now, youre stating that your God helps those that helps themselves.   
Isnt that in direct disagreement with your theory of proselytization?
nothing like sending your mother dead flowers in a used coffee cup.
i learn more from this humor list every day then anywhere else, and  
its not even blocked as spam mail like most humor sites!
Quoting Angelo :
<Snip>
ole
<Snip>
and
<Snip>
ity
<Snip>
?
<Snip>

14) From: Leo Zick
interesting. so, all we have to do is convince these guys to freeze  
their pods, and we are set, huh?http://www.amazon.com/Illy-Medium-Espresso-18-pods-4-4-oz/dp/B0000WEVHQQuoting miKe mcKoffee :
an integral part of making the little > pre-ground per brew vac bags  
for Debi to take to work is freezing them. Just vac sealing has  
limited effect
<Snip>

15) From: Brett Mason
OK all, I gotta say something.  I was wrong, and this situation is not
the same as I most often run into with my own family, comprised mostly
of horses not wanting to drink...
Eddie's doing an awesome job of trying to help meet a simple desire of
his mom, whose house was lost in Hurricane Katrina, has no resources
into which to plug a grinder...
So, anybody with roast-grind-vacpac-ship expertise want to chime in
with some helpful ideas?  Eddie's mom will be grateful, and we can
help.
Apologies, Eddie, I shouldn't have taken a stab, envisioning my own
mom who would complain just to practice...
Brett
On 3/26/07, Angelo  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

16) From: Lynne Biziewski
Well, Angelo, I'm a mother - and mine was Sicilian descent. So I'm giving
you a motherly smack on the side of the head for that remark! (and my mom
would have said [pardon my phonetic Italian], "STU-NA-THA!!", too - but that
was my mother speaking, not me...)
Lynne
Send flowers, but make sure they are dead. Many
<Snip>

17) From: Tom Ulmer
Hmm... I believe you're proselytizing theories of predisposed proselytizers
which does not holy represent the referenced culture...

18) From: Jeff Oien
This may be of help:http://www.roastersguild.org/forums/viewtopic.php?tU98JeffO
<Snip>

19) From: Jeff Oien
Sorry, after looking closer, that thread isn't very relevant except for 
maybe one post. I thought for sure there was one regarding grinding. You 
may try searching on that site though.
JeffO
Jeff Oien wrote:
<Snip>

20) From: Eddie Dove
Mike,
You should try to be more helpful.
If you are going to respond to someone's query you should first read it,
then strive to be more circumspect and actually answer the question posed.
However, when you post responses like this, all I see is an attempt at
self-aggrandizement by way of attempting to force your opinion on others.
For the record, as a rule I grind for no one.  My mother-in-law almost
whimpers for my freshly-roasted Sweet Maria's coffee, but she will not grind
it so she has to settle for me bringing it on special occasions like family
birthdays.  I guess that is why all birthday parties are at her home and I
think some members of the family have more than one birthday per year.  My
wife's best friend since high school went out and bought a grinder at a
store and a Presto Scandinavian from me just so she could buy my
freshly-roasted Sweet Maria's decaf coffee.
I have also refused ~$75 orders for my freshly-roasted Sweet Maria's coffee
because I won't grind it; they bought a grinder and I filled the order.  At
work, there are people that buy my freshly-roasted Sweet Maria's coffee and
tell others to buy a grinder so that they can buy my freshly-roasted Sweet
Maria's coffee ... and they do.
Given the above, one should be able to ascertain my position on grinding and
shipping coffee although it is irrelevant to my original question.  This
occasion happens to be rife with special circumstances, which lead me to
asking my question in this forum because I was certain that someone here
could and would proffer something helpful, and some have.
Eddie
-- 
Docendo Discimus
My Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafehttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 3/26/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:">http://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 3/26/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>

21) From: Julie H Tieszen
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Eddie,
I wanted to respond to your question when you first posted but didn't =
think my newbie opinion would be of much value. But I did notice you =
weren't getting any helpful answers so maybe my opinion will be worth =
something. :)  If I were doing it I would let it rest a few days to let =
the flavors develop, then grind and vacuum seal and send. That's just =
what makes the most sense in my mind. 
Julie

22) From:
Julie:
That's exactly what I said. My guess is that Eddie's ground, sealed and shipped coffee will best anything his Mom gets anywhere else.
g
---- Julie H Tieszen  wrote: 
<Snip>

23) From: Eddie Dove
Julie,
Your input is always welcome!  Everyone can learn something from everyone.
Your thoughts confirm mine and I have proceeded in that direction.
I do still wonder if grinding affects the coffees ability to develop the
flavors ...
Thank you,
Eddie
-- 
Docendo Discimus
My Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafehttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 3/26/07, Julie H Tieszen  wrote:">http://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 3/26/07, Julie H Tieszen  wrote:
<Snip>

24) From: Julie H Tieszen
g,
yes, that is true. btw, I'm loving the zass. I finally got one off ebay this 
week. It will hold me over til I can get a new one like yours. I really like 
the style. I hope it is one of the ones they make again.
Julie

25) From: Leo Zick
Not quite, I wasn't selling my beliefs, but rather questioning his

26) From: Leo Zick
This is a multipart message in MIME format.
If your question was posed differently, say, 'my mother uses a whirly blade
grinder, should I wait before sending her some beans so she doesn't have to
worry about the degassing?'  the typical response would have been - how dare
you let your mother use an inferior grinder!
So, in the end, know that youre doing her some good, regardless. J
From: Eddie Dove [mailto:southcoastcoffeeroaster] 
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 6:44 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Wait Before Grinding?
Mike,
You should try to be more helpful.  
If you are going to respond to someone's query you should first read it,
then strive to be more circumspect and actually answer the question posed.
However, when you post responses like this, all I see is an attempt at
self-aggrandizement by way of attempting to force your opinion on others. 
For the record, as a rule I grind for no one.  My mother-in-law almost
whimpers for my freshly-roasted Sweet Maria's coffee, but she will not grind
it so she has to settle for me bringing it on special occasions like family
birthdays.  I guess that is why all birthday parties are at her home and I
think some members of the family have more than one birthday per year.  My
wife's best friend since high school went out and bought a grinder at a
store and a Presto Scandinavian from me just so she could buy my
freshly-roasted Sweet Maria's decaf coffee. 
I have also refused ~$75 orders for my freshly-roasted Sweet Maria's coffee
because I won't grind it; they bought a grinder and I filled the order.  At
work, there are people that buy my freshly-roasted Sweet Maria's coffee and
tell others to buy a grinder so that they can buy my freshly-roasted Sweet
Maria's coffee ... and they do. 
Given the above, one should be able to ascertain my position on grinding and
shipping coffee although it is irrelevant to my original question.  This
occasion happens to be rife with special circumstances, which lead me to
asking my question in this forum because I was certain that someone here
could and would proffer something helpful, and some have. 
Eddie
-- 
Docendo Discimus
My Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafehttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/">http://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archives http://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
On 3/26/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
Ginny's snide remarks aside, an integral part of making the little
pre-ground per brew vac bags for Debi to take to work is freezing them.
Contrary to Ginny's remark I roast specifically for Debi's taste preferences
as well as mine, which sometimes vary sometimes are the same.
There's a big difference between transporting about an hour from home
freezer to work freezer versus mailing. Just vac sealing has limited effect 
retarding staling pre-ground while "hermetically sealing" and freezing has
great effect.
Years ago made the decision to not ship pre-ground regardless who it was
family or otherwise and have posted as much numerous times over the years. 
OTH I have shipped/gifted whole beans and grinders. "Why" it's not an option
for your mother to grind her beans I don't know. Maybe it's a
health/physical issue maybe not. If it's simply 'cuz "set in her ways" 
personally I would send her something else since she likely wouldn't
appreciate home roast if not grinding per brew now.
Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc: http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment 
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/<Snip>
southcoastcoffeeroaster> wrote:
<Snip>

27) From: Coffeenut
Eddie,
Seems it would have to have a large effect upon flavor development
especially if ground before the coffee has a chance to outgas.  However, in
your situation, you've gotta accept several uncontrollable areas like no
grinder and how the grind is stored after the person receives the gift.  I
do a fair amount of gift coffees to friends and family and regularly find
one thing to be true.  That is that most of my friends and family are no
where near the coffee consumer that I am (and they marvel that I use 3lbs
every 7-10 days).  I'll often discover (months after I've given them some
coffee) that they still have some of the beans that would be well into the
rancid stage by fresh standards.  They grind and brew the rancid coffee and
still feel it's better than Folgers or whatever pre-ground they are using.
Many of them make coffee in small qtys and brew so weak that a couple lbs of
coffee lasts for months.  Even so, I still enjoy gifting it to them and I
can tell you do too with your folks.
Rick
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Eddie Dove
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 7:27 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Wait Before Grinding?
Julie,
Your input is always welcome!  Everyone can learn something from everyone.
Your thoughts confirm mine and I have proceeded in that direction.
I do still wonder if grinding affects the coffees ability to develop the
flavors ... 
Thank you,
Eddie
-- 
Docendo Discimus
My Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafehttp://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/ 
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
On 3/26/07, Julie H Tieszen  wrote:
Eddie,
 
I wanted to respond to your question when you first posted but didn't think
my newbie opinion would be of much value. But I did notice you weren't
getting any helpful answers so maybe my opinion will be worth something. :)
If I were doing it I would let it rest a few days to let the flavors
develop, then grind and vacuum seal and send. That's just what makes the
most sense in my mind. 
 
Julie
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28) From: Brett Mason
Hi Coffeenut,
I am now grinding my daily brew in a Cory Grindmaster - holds about
6lb of beans, and grinds nice and coarse, just the way I like it.
Frankly, I figure Cory knows how to grind best, considering their many
patents and demonstrated skills with vacpot brewing....
I was thinking about grinding and sving our coffee.  Now I wouldn't go
there, but wouldn't 3lb of homeroast taste better all the way through
than 3lb of Folgers?  I would think our product would be steps ahead
all the way along, and bring considerable satisfaction, even if ground
ahead.  My Grindmaster of course would take a full minute to grind
3lb, but I could make that sacrifice of effort if required along the
way.
To sum up this thought, isn't homeroast almost always better than the
cheaper commercial swill-of-the-day, whether whole bean, ground,
espresso or other comparison measure?
Grind it and send it Eddie!
Brett
On 3/26/07, Coffeenut  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

29) From: miKe mcKoffee
Eddie,
I was going to reply Off List but since chastised On List will reply
likewise. My apologies if I offended you or your mother.
The only "rife with special circumstances" I was aware of is/was what you
gave in your original post: "Shipping whole beans and a grinder is not an
option as both will remain on the counter and be willed back to me." As you
stated both whole beans and grinder will "remain on the counter and be
willed back" NOT the counter had been destroyed! Hence I replied to normal
not special circumstances.
If no means of grinding available but brewing is possible, I'd make each vac
pack for an individual brewing. I'd rest one maybe two days before grinding
to lesson degrassing vac bag swelling (and possible risk of expoding vac bag
though I've had 'em puff up quite a bit and never had one split). But would
not go full 3 to 5 days rest as I'd normally do for Debi's freezer bags. I'd
shorten the rest to possibly help lesson staling effects during shipping and
after receiving. I'd also advise your mother to freeze or at least
refridgerate the bags until use if possible.
Have no idea how pre-ground coffee resting developes, not a procedure I use
or have experimented with.
Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/	From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Eddie Dove
	Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 3:44 PM
	
	Mike,
	
	You should try to be more helpful.  
	
	If you are going to respond to someone's query you should first read
it, then strive to be more circumspect and actually answer the question
posed.  However, when you post responses like this, all I see is an attempt
at self-aggrandizement by way of attempting to force your opinion on others.
	For the record, as a rule I grind for no one.  My mother-in-law
almost whimpers for my freshly-roasted Sweet Maria's coffee, but she will
not grind it so she has to settle for me bringing it on special occasions
like family birthdays.  I guess that is why all birthday parties are at her
home and I think some members of the family have more than one birthday per
year.  My wife's best friend since high school went out and bought a grinder
at a store and a Presto Scandinavian from me just so she could buy my
freshly-roasted Sweet Maria's decaf coffee. 
	
	I have also refused ~$75 orders for my freshly-roasted Sweet Maria's
coffee because I won't grind it; they bought a grinder and I filled the
order.  At work, there are people that buy my freshly-roasted Sweet Maria's
coffee and tell others to buy a grinder so that they can buy my
freshly-roasted Sweet Maria's coffee ... and they do. 
	
	Given the above, one should be able to ascertain my position on
grinding and shipping coffee although it is irrelevant to my original
question.  This occasion happens to be rife with special circumstances,
which lead me to asking my question in this forum because I was certain that
someone here could and would proffer something helpful, and some have. 
	
	Eddie
	-- 
	Docendo Discimus
	My Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafe
http://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/	Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archives 
http://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/

30) From: Coffeenut
Brett,
I don't like Folgers even when the can is first opened and would expect that
our home-roasted coffee would be better if nothing else because we are using
these great quality beans from our hosts!
On occasion, old age has its fun with me and I forget to reset my Rocky back
to drip grind from espresso.  Then I proceed to grind about 66gms of
espresso instead of drip.  I have saved that grind for later (sealed in a
foodsaver bag), but later is seldom more than 24hrs.  I still occasionally
get my chance to refresh memory of what Folgers tastes like whenever I have
coffee at most restaurants.  That's where age again has its fun and allows
me to quickly forget!
Rick

31) From: stereoplegic
if you have some of Tom's ziplock valve bags or enough coffee to almost 
completely fill one of those cool valved mason jars you make, i'd say 
grind right away then vac seal through the valve w/ your foodsaver, sans 
canning attachment. i put a small rubber gasket (i think it was actually 
a rubber foot from some electronic doohickey i disassembled) around the 
little grey connector at the end of the tube (mine has the same 
connector that plugs into the foodsaver on both sides of the tube, for 
use w/ plastic foodsaver containers) so that air is sucked through the 
valve and not through the small slits on said connector. i've had no 
problems sealing Tom's bags w/ the foodsaver, though i do it a few times 
just to be sure. if your vac sealer won't seal the bags (should you use 
them), use an iron. this way your coffee is sealed fresh but can still 
degas, the valve stays intact, and the bag/jar won't explode en route.
tom wrote:
<Snip>

32) From: stereoplegic
alright kids, that's quite enough. play nicely or it's straight to bed 
without homeroast.
leo wrote:
<Snip>

33) From: Tom Ulmer
Your analogy seemed rife with presenting the question within negative
context of your beliefs. Also known as a "nod is as good as a wink - nudge,
nudge close" throughout the Midwest and the South. 
Of course being in a void leaves me totally predisposed to think about
nothing...

34) From: Eddie Dove
Brett,
A sincere thank you.
Eddie
On 3/26/07, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>

35) From:
Brett,
what a guy!!!
I really think waiting a day or two, grinding and vac sealing several small pouches that your Mom can keep in the freezer or cool place will give her tons-o-joy from her sweet baby eddie...
g
---- Eddie Dove  wrote: 
<Snip>

36) From: Douglas Strait
Wandering just a bit from original topic:
Ok, I admit to reading just a very small % of messages posted to the 
list. Just on a hunch I went to the archive and read all 37 posts in 
this thread. I think that we all accept as "received wisdom" that 
ground stales faster than whole bean. It is easy to hypothesize a 
number of plausible reasons for why this should be true. Has anyone 
posting on this question actually done personal experimentation on 
this question? It may be that for the non-coffee-compulsive population 
this is less of an issue than it is for the folks that have convinced 
themselves to not grind until the water is about to boil without ever 
subjecting their belief to a blind cupping.

37) From: Floyd Lozano
would be an interesting test, one i am sure someone must have done - blind
cupping of the same roast, on the same rest, ground 2 days, 1 day, 3 hours,
1 hour, and brew time, see if you could order them in a blind cupping.
-F
On 3/27/07, Douglas Strait  wrote:
<Snip>

38) From: Les
Doug,
I have resisted this thread cause I didn't want to be flamed too much.  I
did a blind test about a year and a half ago.  I ground coffee every 10
minutes and waited 10 minutes before grinding and pulling my first shot.  I
pulled 5 shots back to back after Becky randomly mixed up all 5 shots
(bottoms of the containers were numbered.)   There was a noticeable
difference between grinding after 30 minutes and 40 minutes.  There wasn't
much of a quality difference between fresh, 10min, 20 min, and 30 min.  So,
I grind for what I will pull in 15 minutes.  I don't sweat grinding for each
shot like I used to do.  Shoot me if you want Mike McKoffee, but for me,
having to pull shots for 3 people every morning it is just easier.  If I am
just pulling for myself, I grind for each shot.
Les
On 3/27/07, Douglas Strait  wrote:
<Snip>

39) From: miKe mcKoffee
Conjecture? Hardly. In 1984, shortly after I started first drinking coffee,
first noticed drip coffee brewed by timer in the morning ground the night
before compared to ground and immediately brewed tasted flat & stale.
Immediately quit grinding in advance and never used the brew timer again.
Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
<Snip>

40) From: Ed Needham
Preground coffee 'stales faster' as it loses flavor and aromatics to the 
air.  What goes into the air will be lost in the cup.
Old, dried out brown sawdust that calls itself coffee, with no flavor and no 
aromatics or bad aromatics...that's stale.
There is that elusive time, right after grinding though, where the aromatics 
are still hanging in the air, and the brewed beans merge with the smell in 
the air to give a very pleasant coffee experience. Remember, a huge part of 
taste is smell.
I doubt many of us could discriminate the difference between 10 minute, 20 
minute, and so on, but just knowing the flavor and aroma is slipping away is 
enough to get me moving to brew the beans ASAP after grinding.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

41) From: Les
I never thought about the fact that I was putting a good infusion of great
coffee aroma into the kitchen every ten minutes for 50 minutes!
Les
On 3/27/07, Ed Needham  wrote:
<Snip>

42) From: Ed Needham
My coffeehouse was in the late seventies and I charged 35 cents for a cup
of brewed coffee.  Some people complained that they could get coffee for
20 cents elsewhere.  I told them to go get it.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

43) From: Steven Van Dyke
My experience was somewhat similar except I noticed when I switched 
from a coffee maker with a timer to one with a timer *and* a 
grinder.  Big difference in taste between coffee ground the night 
before and ground right at brew time.
At 09:26 PM 3/27/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>

44) From: Floyd Lozano
if i could find a good coffeemaker that was, if not SCAA approved, verified
by testing to be in the brewing sweet spot for temperature, with an easy to
clean grinder, i'd buy it in a heartbeat.
SO the question is, anybody know of one such a coffeemaker?
-F
On 3/28/07, Steven Van Dyke  wrote:
<Snip>

45) From: Larry Johnson
Ditto. I had coffee at a friend's house, brewed in a Melitta that had a
built-in whirly blade. The coffee was 8 O'clock whole bean. It was so much
better than what I was used to, that I bought the same coffee maker when I
got home (friend lives in Cleveland, OH) and another when that one died.
This was actually the event that led to my interest in home roasting; that
and running across Ken David's book at B&N.
On 3/28/07, Steven Van Dyke  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Larry J
If this is coffee, please bring me some tea; but if this is tea, please
bring me some coffee.
  - Abraham Lincoln

46) From: Steven Van Dyke
Ours was (is) a Krupps AromaTime.  The grinder is interesting.  It's 
a whirly blade but on it's side with a screen below it.  As soon as a 
bit of bean is small enough it falls through the screen into the 
filter so you get a surprisingly even grind.  The unit 'cleans' 
itself by running the hot water / steam through the grinding area 
near the end of the brew cycle.  You still have to clean the filter 
basket area but it's not too bad.
Coffee it makes is just ok now that we're used to cafe cremas from my 
Capresso Super-Auto (F9).  Had to use it for a couple of days a while 
back for some reason I can't recall.
At 06:18 AM 3/28/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>

47) From: Rudy Ramsey
I've been doing a small amount of very informal experimentation on this
topic (vacuum packing ground coffee). Initially my interest was in building
a good, minimalist coffee travel kit for times when I don't want to carry
Ibis, grinder, etc. Later it occurred to me to try carrying preground coffee
to work, and here's what I've found so far.
The point of taking preground coffee to work, for me, was to see if I might
get better results with my Solis Maestro Plus, and several hours of staling
of the ground coffee, than I get from taking the beans to work and grinding
them in a weed whacker. Clearly, both are inferior ways to make coffee, so
I'm not comparing either one to proper coffee preparation, but just trying
to find out which works better in a grinder-constrained situation.
I really expected the weed-whacker to win, as I remember Mark Prince saying
long ago in a CoffeeGeek podcast that CO2 is a major flavor carrier, and
that coffee loses half its CO2 within about a 1 minute after grinding. (I
have no idea where he got his data, and someone will now probably jump all
over me. That's OK; everybody else on the list has already had his or her
turn ;-)
To my surprise, I've improved my office coffee substantially this way. Even
without vacuum packing, I like the burr-ground, long delay, Aeropressed
coffee better than the weed-whacked, immediately Aeropressed coffee I was
drinking. YMMV. :-)
Now I'm starting to experiment more seriously with vacuum packing ground
coffee for travel when I really want to travel light.
I am not a super-taster, however. I'm an infra-taster (someone with three or
fewer total tastebuds*). So that's another sense in which your mileage may
vary.
Rudy
*Yes, I made that word up, lest someone think it's another scientific term.
But the 3 tastebud metric is by actual count. ;-)

48) From: Floyd Lozano
This is a venture I plan to take very soon, as the idea of toting my coffee
in my crappy old thermos with the flavor of years old coffee embedded deep
in the seals / gaskets somehow is really wrecking my appreciation of my
spectacular coffee.  So I am thinking of grinding up enough for a day and
bagging it in single serving sizes, getting the Aeropress from SM (thank you
for finally carrying this, I didn't want to have to buy it from another site
and pay their crappy shipping!).  Hope it works for me!
Incidentally if someone can recommend a good way to remove said flavors from
the interior of my SS thermos, I'm all ears.  White vinegar soak?  Afraid of
lingering vinegar flavor, and i am not sure which is worse, ransid coffee
oils or stirring coffee with a pickle.
-F
On 4/1/07, Rudy Ramsey  wrote:
<Snip>

49) From: L. Michael Fraley, MD
Hey Rudy,
Interesting "study."  Thanks for sharing.
Michael
On Apr 1, 2007, at 9:38 PM, Rudy Ramsey wrote:
I've been doing a small amount of very informal experimentation on this
topic (vacuum packing ground coffee). Initially my interest was in 
building
a good, minimalist coffee travel kit for times when I don't want to 
carry
Ibis, grinder, etc. Later it occurred to me to try carrying preground 
coffee
to work, and here's what I've found so far.
The point of taking preground coffee to work, for me, was to see if I 
might
get better results with my Solis Maestro Plus, and several hours of 
staling
of the ground coffee, than I get from taking the beans to work and 
grinding
them in a weed whacker. Clearly, both are inferior ways to make coffee, 
so
I'm not comparing either one to proper coffee preparation, but just 
trying
to find out which works better in a grinder-constrained situation.
I really expected the weed-whacker to win, as I remember Mark Prince 
saying
long ago in a CoffeeGeek podcast that CO2 is a major flavor carrier, and
that coffee loses half its CO2 within about a 1 minute after grinding. 
(I
have no idea where he got his data, and someone will now probably jump 
all
over me. That's OK; everybody else on the list has already had his or 
her
turn ;-)
To my surprise, I've improved my office coffee substantially this way. 
Even
without vacuum packing, I like the burr-ground, long delay, Aeropressed
coffee better than the weed-whacked, immediately Aeropressed coffee I 
was
drinking. YMMV. :-)
Now I'm starting to experiment more seriously with vacuum packing ground
coffee for travel when I really want to travel light.
I am not a super-taster, however. I'm an infra-taster (someone with 
three or
fewer total tastebuds*). So that's another sense in which your mileage 
may
vary.
Rudy
*Yes, I made that word up, lest someone think it's another scientific 
term.
But the 3 tastebud metric is by actual count. ;-)

50) From: L. Michael Fraley, MD
Hey Floyd,
I have a great SS thermos that I bought from SM.  But I also have one 
of the big ol' green thermos like all our Grandads had when we were 
kids.  It was a gift from my best buddy.  I use it when I am going into =
the woods, because you cannot kill these things.  The instructions that =
came with the green one said to soak the interior with a baking soda 
and water mix.  I cannot remember the exact proportions.  I will see if =
I can find them.  BTW.. the big green one keeps coffee hot for a long 
long time.. just isn't as sleek looking as my other one.
Michael
On Apr 1, 2007, at 9:46 PM, Floyd Lozano wrote:
This is a venture I plan to take very soon, as the idea of toting my 
coffee in my crappy old thermos with the flavor of years old coffee 
embedded deep in the seals / gaskets somehow is really wrecking my 
appreciation of my spectacular coffee.  So I am thinking of grinding =
up 
enough for a day and bagging it in single serving sizes, getting the 
Aeropress from SM (thank you for finally carrying this, I didn't want 
to have to buy it from another site and pay their crappy shipping!).  =
Hope it works for me!
 
Incidentally if someone can recommend a good way to remove said flavors =
from the interior of my SS thermos, I'm all ears.  White vinegar =
soak?  
Afraid of lingering vinegar flavor, and i am not sure which is worse, 
ransid coffee oils or stirring coffee with a pickle.
-F
 
On 4/1/07, Rudy Ramsey  wrote: I've been doing a 
small amount of very informal experimentation on this
<Snip>
L. Michael Fraley, MD

51) From: Brian Kamnetz
Very interesting, Rudy. I look forward to hearing about your ongoing
experiments.
Brian
On 4/1/07, Rudy Ramsey  wrote:
<Snip>

52) From: Justin Marquez
On 4/1/07, Rudy Ramsey  wrote:
<Snip>
This post will probably cost me precious CSA points....
Nomally I take either brewed coffee in a thermos OR I pre-grind at
home and brew Aeropress at work.  Yesterday in doing some cleanup at
the coffee area at home, I discovered a half pound valve bag of
roasted of our favorite Guat which had my date of 12/30/06 on it.
Yup. 3 MONTHS old. I remembered - it was one which ended up a bit
darker than I normally roast and I stashed it under the counter
thinking of taking to a friend at the office.  Then I forgot. ("duh")
I looked at this find with a little oil showing and said "Why not?"
Tossed it into the SMP and ground some to bring to the office for A/P
brewing. It was excellent! Fulla chocolate!
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)

53) From: Sandy Andina
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Well, even at 3 months old it's gotta be fresher than most of what  
you'll find at the Green Mermaid or Big Blue Moose.  If I discover  
unused roasted beans that are over a month or so old, I do the sniff  
test--if they smell like coffee I grind and brew them; if not, I chew  
one--and if it tastes stale, it goes into the "sink shots" bag (for  
shots to be brewed and discarded after detergent backflush and  
cleaning of the espresso machine or descaling of the drip brewers).
On Apr 2, 2007, at 11:58 AM, Justin Marquez wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
www.sandyandina.com
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
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	charsetO-8859-1
Well, even at 3 months old it's =
gotta be fresher than most of what you'll find at the Green Mermaid or =
Big Blue Moose.  If I discover unused roasted beans that are over a =
month or so old, I do the sniff test--if they smell like coffee I grind =
and brew them; if not, I chew one--and if it tastes stale, it goes into =
the "sink shots" bag (for shots to be brewed and discarded after =
detergent backflush and cleaning of the espresso machine or descaling of =
the drip brewers).
On Apr 2, 2007, at 11:58 AM, Justin =
Marquez wrote:
On 4/1/07, Rudy Ramsey <rudy> wrote: = I've been doing a small = amount of very informal experimentation on thistopic (vacuum packing ground coffee). Initially my = interest was in buildinga good, = minimalist coffee travel kit for times when I don't want to = carryIbis, grinder, etc. Later it = occurred to me to try carrying preground coffeeto work, and here's what I've found so = far. The point of taking preground coffee to work, for = me, was to see if I mightget better = results with my Solis Maestro Plus, and several hours of = stalingof the ground coffee, than I get = from taking the beans to work and grindingthem in = a weed whacker. Clearly, both are inferior ways to make coffee, = soI'm not comparing either one to proper coffee = preparation, but just tryingto find out = which works better in a grinder-constrained situation. This = post will probably cost me precious CSA points.... Nomally = I take either brewed coffee in a thermos OR I pre-grind athome and brew Aeropress at work.  Yesterday in doing some = cleanup atthe coffee area at home, I = discovered a half pound valve bag ofroasted of = our favorite Guat which had my date of 12/30/06 on it.Yup. 3 MONTHS old. I remembered - it was one which = ended up a bitdarker than I normally roast and = I stashed it under the counterthinking of = taking to a friend at the office. = Then I forgot. ("duh") I looked at this find with a = little oil showing and said "Why not?"Tossed = it into the SMP and ground some to bring to the office for A/Pbrewing. It was excellent! Fulla = chocolate! Safe Journeys and Sweet MusicJustin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)homeroast mailing listhttp://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change your personal list settings (digest = options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings = Sandy = Andinawww.sandyandina.comwww.myspace.com/sandyandina=

= = --Apple-Mail-16--340332447--

54) From: Peter Zulkowski
Oh Rudy
Thank you thank you thank you.
For your comments.
At last, there is someone on here that has about the same taster as I do.
And ADMITS it :) :)
Really, I have been feeling so inferior;
So out of synch with the rest of the list!
I discovered that Harrar Horse, roasted and ground in Lake Havasu City, 
AZ tastes almost as good, 10 days later, in Gloucester, MA.
Not many here, as old and decrepit as I am are willing  to talk  that 
talk ;)
Or even not so old maybe.
OTOH, we kept drinking that batch until it was all gone, and it was 
still pretty good a few days later, into two weeks of aged ground coffee.
BUT>>>>>....
The next batch I roasted in Gloucester made me realize what I had been 
missing!
So yes, it does degrade as time goes on, but so slowly that you er... 
I... er... my wifeand I, still thought it was pretty good coffee.
At least compared to truck stop coffee.
BTW, I still have never tasted or smelled any blueberry anything come 
wafting out of any kind of Ethiopian coffee. Roasted to any degree, in 
any kind of roaster and aged for as long or as little as I could 
accomplish. (but that is another story)
So many people say that it is so, there is blueberry flavor, that I must 
freely admit that my taste buds have gone the way of eight track tapes 
and 45 RPM records.
Suffice to say that Tom will never hire me as an assistant cupper :(
I do like his coffee though, and yes I have tried others, but Tom still 
has the best beans.
PeterZ
Wondering why I can tell good beans from bad beans and still can't taste 
blueberry coffee, here in LHC.
Rudy Ramsey wrote:
<Snip>

55) From: Brett Mason
GO Mr. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Brett
On 4/2/07, Peter Zulkowski  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

56) From: Rudy Ramsey
Peter,
Sorry for the delay in responding. I guess I should try to at least keep up
with the threads I'm posting in, huh? Though I've read or skimmed the
homeroast list down to 1300 messages, which is relatively low for me. :-)
Yes, I'm willing to admit that I can't discriminate all the tastes that
these guys detect, though I do find that a cup that tastes better to the
supertasters is usually discriminably better to my meager palatte, as well.
I have the same experience with single-malt scotch. I've taken multiple
courses in Scotch whisky tasting, and I can definitely tell the differences
among many of them (I specialize in Islay), but the specific tastes that
others report often elude me.
However, it seems likely that one of my three surviving taste buds is a
blueberry one, because I definitely got blueberry from Lot 30 last year. In
fact, one of the great regrets of my life is waiting a day too long to stock
up on that bean last year. You'd think I would have learned my lesson, but I
also missed doing that with the Idido Misty Valley just in the last week or
two. Can't nap around here, can you? :,-{
I decided to repeat an experiment that Les reported, grinding the Idido
Misty Valley to cinnamon (which I like; I've been roasting lighter since he
was here for a visit, and often enjoying it more :-). Then I tried to
stretch out the coffee, to see if I could replicate his experience that it
came back to life around day 9. Alas, no. Though when I tried my last cup
this morning (day 13), I suddenly smelled blueberry after grinding the
beans, but the cup tasted more like grass.
So I have two of my three taste buds cataloged now. One is tuned to
blueberry and another is tuned to grass. I wonder how I can find out what
the third one is for. ;-)
Oh, and I'm old, too. :-)
Rudy


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