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Topic: Need help...... Imperial Chocolate Coffee Stout (6 msgs / 205 lines)
1) From: Larry Johnson
OK, I haven't brewed a coffee stout (or any other coffee beer, for that
matter), but a couple of things occurred to me when I read your friend's
description:
1. Putting any flavor additive into the beer before primary fermentation
usually results in a huge reduction of flavor/aroma from that ingredient du=
e
to the CO2 scrubbing most of it out as it ferments. The Belgians (beer
experts nonpareil) add the fruit to their Lambics in the secondary, which i=
s
doesn't outgas near as much CO2, so that there is still fruit flavor when
the beer is bottled.
2. I notice he mentions keeping oils to a minimum; that's good, because oil
will completely kill head retention - not a good thing.
3. 64 oz of coffee concentrate sounds like an awful lot for 5 gallons of
beer, but I've never brewed it, so I don't know for sure. If it were me, I
would go with less to start. It can be added at any time, because there's n=
o
reason that it needs to be there during fermentation. He could add it when
the beer is completely finished, for that matter.
Just my $.02 worth
On 4/4/07, True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)  wrote:
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-- 
Larry J
If this is coffee, please bring me some tea; but if this is tea, please
bring me some coffee.
  - Abraham Lincoln

2) From: Michael Rasmussen
Given his parameters, adding the coffee infusion at bottling time would be a
strong place to start.  I believe the 64oz is also a good starting point.  His
described beer is huge, you'll need quite a bit of coffee flavor to persist
through the many beer flavors.
I would, however, encourage him to work with roast malt selection to provide a
base for the "coffee" flavor.  There are many choices and it's been done with good
results.
-- 
   Michael Rasmussen, Portland, Ore, USA
  Be Appropriate && Follow Your Curiosity
       http://www.patch.com/words/

3) From: Larry Johnson
All good points, Michael. As for using roast grain instead of coffee, I once
brewed a porter that tasted a lot like iced coffee by putting a pound of
whole black patent malt into the boil kettle for the last 10 minutes. Of
course, if he uses malt instead of coffee then that would take this thread
OT.;-p
On 4/4/07, Michael Rasmussen  wrote:
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-- 
Larry J
If this is coffee, please bring me some tea; but if this is tea, please
bring me some coffee.
  - Abraham Lincoln

4) From: mirrera
Dennis,
Iíve brewed beer with coffee a few times, and itís actually a pretty forgiving ingredient.  But you donít want to overuse it, either.  It sounds like heís got a good Imperial chocolate/coffee stout going there.  Some things to think about are how much coffee flavor do you want in the final product, and the interaction of the coffee and cocoa (which is quite bitter).  But with an alcohol content that high, youíre going to need quite a bit of bittering agent, whether itís cocoa, hops or coffee, to balance it out.
The way Iíve used coffee is to add brewed coffee either just before pitching, or when racking to the secondary.  But people also use whole bean and ground coffee to the boil or when fermenting.  So itís all possible, but I think that adding brewed coffee is most easily controlled, provides the most flavor, and you donít have coffee grounds (or beans) all over the place.
Since there are no fermentables in the coffee, I donít think youíll find too much interaction with the yeast.  But there will be differences in adding to the primary and secondary, just because the flavors will have different times to meld together, and the green beer has a different chemical makeup than the clear beer, too.  You also donít want to use a darker roasted bean, as it will inhibit head retention (because of the oils). 
My suggestion would be to use a lighter roaster blend, made as espresso, and use about 15-20 ounces.  64 ounces of a Ďconcentrateí sounds like too much to me, at least to start.
One of my favorites in this style is Founderís Breakfast Stout.  I believe thatís about 8% ABV, but matches most of the rest of your profile.  Also, hereís a BYO article on using coffee that may be of help:http://byo.com/feature/1020.htmlWish him luck.
-AdkMike

5) From: True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
OK Gang,
    I know there are some brewmasters out there.  A friend of mine has a
great set up for beer.  I asked him to send me a description of what he
was trying to do.  I am thinking using an AEROPRESS to make a
concentrate.  Anyone that can add to or help with this. all inputs are
appreceated.  it sounds good, but I have ZERO brewing experence. 
I have yet another convert to the Freshroast world! he has already asked
about what al he needs to roast his own.
 
Dennis 
AKA 
FC1(SW) Dennis W. True 
Safety Dept 
USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN 69) 
FPO AE 09532-2830 
HG/DB and Z&D roasting in the Arabian Gulf 
 "On station and on point 52 and counting down..." 
 
FC1,
  Here is a brief description of what I am trying to accomplish.  I am
looking to make a standard 5 gal. batch of stout with an average alcohol
content in upwards of 10-12% that has a definite coffee and chocolate
taste.  I am going to alter the grains so I have a heavy malty flavor to
offset all of the alcohol but instead of using a lot of heavy roasted
grains for the coffee flavor I would like to make a coffee concentrate
to get the coffee taste with minimal bitterness.  I am going to use
baking cocoa for the chocolate but would like a bean that can add to
that taste if possible, Optimum Ph level is 5.2 but I can alter that if
need be.  I think a concentrate of about 64 oz. should be a good
benchmark for the first batch.  I want a beer that comes close to a
Mocha Cappuccino but not looking for a heavy aftertaste or for it to be
sickish sweet.  I want to keep bitterness and oils to a very minimum.  
            I brew in a RIMS system that constantly circulates my wort
during brewing and adds heat as needed by using water heater elements
and pids/thermocouples for temperature control.   My normal temperature
range is from cold tap water to boiling (212 deg.) with rests at
different temperatures in between for enzyme reaction.  I am thinking it
would be best to make the beer a half gal. short then add the
concentrate just before I start fermenting as the extra boil might hurt
the flavor.  I am also going to try a second batch at the same time
where I don't add the coffee until after the primary fermentation going
into secondary to see if the yeast have any major affect on the coffee
flavor also.  Thanks for any advise or assistance you can offer on this.
Robert

6) From: stereoplegic
sorry in advance, long post ahead. i hope all the parentheses don't make 
it too confusing.
i make a cold-brewed concentrate (toddy) for my girlfriend's frappes (i 
can't stand toddy any other way, hot or iced, but it does have nice, 
lingering chocolate notes in a frappe). perhaps something like this 
would be the way to go:http://snipurl.com/cuptoddyi follow this guy's directions for the toddy maker, but i use coffee 
ground course for FRENCH press (this guy lost me when he started talking 
about robusta), preferably something that has good chocolate/cocoa and 
few if any bright (they'll get muted anyway) notes (like a FC Brazil, 
some Guats (my GF raves about frappes made with Guatemalan-based toddy), 
or an Indo with any earthiness roasted out. haven't tried the Bug, but 
your description makes it sound like just the ticket). also, i try to 
let mine sit for 24 hrs instead of 12 (i really don't think you have to 
worry about overextraction too much w/ this method, and you get a 
stronger concentrate this way, so you won't have to add as much). i use 
the same exact taco bell cups he uses, w/ just short of 3 1/2 oz coffee 
and 26 1\2 cups of water (trying to figure out what would fit in the cup 
based on the toddy ratio i got from a local coffee shop that isn't that 
bad, depending on who's working-1 lb coffee per 1 gal water, divided by 
5 so i can still fit it all in a 32 oz cup).
TrueDW wrote:
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