HomeRoast Digest


Topic: espresso vs coffee and cupping (7 msgs / 190 lines)
1) From: john nanavati
i have a question about cupping and brewing.
i was studying / reading some of Tom's cupping reviews last night (my stash
is down to four pounds) to place an order. some of the descriptions talk
about different tones and flavors in the cup. i assume that his cupping is
brewed as coffee, but what about espresso?
   - for those who brew espresso, will you brew "all" the different
   varieties of beans as espresso, or just pick a couple that can be roasted to
   >/+ and drink the others as coffee?
   - if you do use "all" the varieties, will you still notice the
   different notes in the espresso as easily as in coffee?
   - finally, will a City+ roast be drinkable as espresso or does the
   brewing process "require" a darker roast?
i know that a lot of it may depend upon my personal tastes but there are
still some basic guidelines to reach and maintain happiness ;- )
(btw, even if you don't brew espresso, you are welcome to weigh in on my
thread ;- )
John Nanavati
Plainfield, New Jersey

2) From: Les
John,
1st off, Tom's coffee isn't brewed.  It is carefully weighed and a
predetermined amount of water at a specific temperature is added to the
grounds.  In cupping you pour the water over the grounds.  You wait a
specific amount of time before breaking the crust.  You crank up all of your
senses and techniques to analyze the coffee aroma, flavors, brightness ect.
ect. ect.  It is a very demanding process.  You test the coffee through a
temperature spectrum before making your determination.  Espresso is a drink,
not a coffee, not a roast.  Pressure extraction does not like a bright
coffee, so when thinking about espresso you might want to shy away from the
brighter coffees. (high acid scores in the cupping.)  Actually espresso done
right will accentuate the tones and flavors.  So, when you are reading Tom's
reviews, you are getting the inside scoop!  You are getting some of the more
objective data out there.
Les
On 4/4/07, john nanavati  wrote:
<Snip>

3) From: Michael Dhabolt
John,
I'll underline all of Les's comments, and expound a bit.  Yes, I use all the
varieties.....As Les mentioned, some 'bright' beans are a bit much as
espresso.....but as  a minor percentage in an espresso blend, they bring the
"different notes" to the blend and if the blend is pulled successfully,
those "notes" present themselves quit well.
Espresso does not "require" any specific level of roast.  I blend and pull
quit a few beans roasted to City+.  I frequently end up with
blends comprised of some beans roasted to City+ and others to Full City+.
Most often, the roast level of beans in my blends are 4 or 5 degrees F short
of reaching second crack (considered a very light roast by many).  When
subscribing to the 'Dark Side' you don't give up anything....everything is
more intensely tasted.
Mike (just plain)
<Snip>

4) From:
as Les said, espresso is a drink, like your french press, your mr.coffee brewed, zass ground and boiled all of our cups are drinks.
John, you hit the nail when yoiu mentioned that it is taste. It is taste.
Too many times said, all of my coffee is put into the espresso machine. Some gets turned into a very nice americano, while others get tossed into the arroyo, others straight/light in the loafers gets tossed right into the trash.
Most coffee I roast is perfect for cafe crema, almost perfect for espresso and never tried for much else unless some others are here.
go for your taste. you can read yourself to death and get a really crappy cup because your palate is not her/his palate.
I learn from the remarks of others as it pertains to the way I roast.
good luck john,
ginny
---- Michael Dhabolt  wrote: 
<Snip>

5) From: miKe mcKoffee
I'll ditto what both Les & Mike (just plain) said. And add even a lighter
roasted SO than may be a bit wild as a SO straight shot more often than not
will make an excellent Americano or cappuccino. For instance even the
wildest Kenya or WP Yirg' will make a fantastic cap' with the acidity
cutting through and complimenting the micro-foamed milk. (Rather than
relying on dark roast taste cutting through the milk like all too common
"out there".)
Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/	From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of john nanavati
	Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 1:18 PM
	
	i have a question about cupping and brewing.
	 
	i was studying / reading some of Tom's cupping reviews last night
(my stash is down to four pounds) to place an order. some of the
descriptions talk about different tones and flavors in the cup. i assume
that his cupping is brewed as coffee, but what about espresso? 
	*	for those who brew espresso, will you brew "all" the
different varieties of beans as espresso, or just pick a couple that can be
roasted to >/+ and drink the others as coffee? 
	*	if you do use "all" the varieties, will you still notice the
different notes in the espresso as easily as in coffee? 
	*	finally, will a City+ roast be drinkable as espresso or does
the brewing process "require" a darker roast?
	i know that a lot of it may depend upon my personal tastes but there
are still some basic guidelines to reach and maintain happiness ;- )
	 
	(btw, even if you don't brew espresso, you are welcome to weigh in
on my thread ;- )
	
	John Nanavati
	Plainfield, New Jersey

6) From: MichaelB
John,
Many espresso drinkers pick a blend and stick with it to perfect their
output. So many factors have to be just right for a world class shot that
they usually focus on one blend. It's about creating and recreating the peak
experience of the best shot with the best blend. The espresso drinkers on
this site are probably the exception to this rather than the rule. Too many
Sweet Maria's green coffee offerings to stick to just one kind.
Before I was a home roaster I was a 100% espresso drinker. I started home
roasting just to have fresh espresso. For my first year of roasting it was
just two blends; Monkey and Donkey. I would order 5 lb bags of each and
roast away, aiming for Tom's recommendations of just before rolling 2nd. But
hanging out here eventually lured me from the dark side to the LIGHT SIDE,
varietals and other blends roasted to Tom's recommendations for best
varietal flavor. This really cut into my espresso consumption. I'm probably
now 60% espresso, 40% varietals mostly vacuum brewed.
I'm not as interested as others may be in trying varietals as espresso.
Perhaps I'll get there in a few years. Till then I have my beloved Monkey
and Donkey. Even when I pull a delicious shot of a rich Brazil or Sumatra,
my usual reaction is "this is great - but it's not Monkey." But if you do
roast as Tom recommends, espressos you pull will have the flavors he
describes big time, perhaps even more intense than in cupping or non
pressure brewing. So some of the Ethiopians (Harar) or Yemens (Sanan'ani)
can send you to heaven. However, some of the bright Centrals and Kenyans can
really test your pucker power.
On 4/4/07, john nanavati  wrote:
<Snip>
--
MichaelB

7) From: stereoplegic
i'll agree w/ miKe here. just had a great C+ IMV Americano this evening. 
not as good as the FC+ DP Sidamo Americanos i mentioned recently, but 
still had wonderful fruit, and the "outrageous floral" notes Tom 
mentioned on the label.
mcKona wrote:
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