HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Pop Corn Popper and roasting beans (18 msgs / 546 lines)
1) From: Coffee Addict
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Folks,
I am new to the list, however I have done a fair amount of searching the =
web to find the answer to the quesitons I have.
I just bought a west bend poppery and my beans from seet marias is =
enroute.  
I have read in several places that you have to modify the pop corn =
machine, however I have also read that you do not need to.  Can anyone =
tell me which of the two is correct.  My aim is to get the best results =
I can, home roasting, without having to spend a ga-gillion dollars on a =
real bean roaster.  I already have spent my fair share of money on my =
coffee maker and expresso maker, the wife has told me enough is enough =
(damn non-coffee drinkers, pffftt).
Also, I am curious.  How do you folks store your beans, prior to =
roasting them.  In addition, once you roast them, how do you store them? =
 I was planning on roasting on Sundays, enough to last me through the =
week because I don't have time to do it during the week, so can't do it =
every three days.  Once I roast them, I was planning on storing the =
weeks supply in an air tight ceramic jar.  I mean its air tight in that =
air can't get in or out, but  its no vacuum packed or anything like =
that.
One last question.  What is the difference between roasting coffee beans =
for normal coffee made in an auto drip maker, and beans roasted for =
expresso.  Is it simply that you roast expresso beans much longer?
Thanks in advance for any and all help!
Pete (a.k.a. CoffeeAddict)

2) From:
Hi Pete:
As to roasting for regular brew v. espresso. Try different ways to your own taste. I tend to roast beans on thye darker side. Follow Tom's roasting advice to start off with untiul you get more comfortable.
To mod or not to mod? I never moded my popper and all was fine. There are samples of some popper mods on homeroasters.org, in the forum area.
Check those out, very cool.
Enjoy Pete.
ginny
---- Coffee Addict  wrote: 
<Snip>

3) From: Tim TenClay
Pete..
The answer to the modification question is "yep."  Some people modify
their poppers to lengthen the roasting time (and presumably to provide
depth and character to the roast) or to change the heating profile.
Others don't.  I roasted with an unmodified popper for 2 years and
loved it.  I'm now roasting with a Hot Top and I'm not convinced that
the quality is any better (although it's a little less "bright" of a
flavor, probably because of the longer roasting time) -- the Hot Top
roasts a lot more than my popper ever did though.
My suggestion?  Don't modify right away.  You may want to later, you may not.
I store my green beans in the bags they come in (plastic...sometimes
cloth) and my roasted beans in glass jars with plastic lids.  I write
the bean type and roast date on the top of the plastic lids with a wax
pencil (which I remove with a little bit of goo gone when the beans
are finished off).  A ceramic jar will be perfect.
Depending on how much coffee you drink, you'll have to roast several
batches in your popper to last you a week.  Not a big deal - each
batch will take you about 10 minutes in an unmodified popper.
Suggestions on the list to lengthen the roast a little include putting
a couple of extension chords between the popper and the
plug-in...it'll give you an extra minute or so.
I don't know where you live, but you'll probably want to roast outside
because of the chaff.  It's almost to the time of year when you can do
that almost anywhere in North America...good time to start roasting!
:-)
Enjoy!  And ask the list everything you have questions about.  I've
been here for a few years - it's one of my favorite groups of people
in the world!
Grace and Peace,
  `tim
On 4/12/07, Coffee Addict  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
The content of this e-mail may be private or of confidential nature.
Do not forward without permission of the original author.
--
Rev. Tim TenClay, IAPC, NATA #253
Dunningville Reformed Church (www.dunningville.org)
Personal Blog:http://www.tenclay.org/blog

4) From: raymanowen
Pete, Don't step there... Oh, now you've done it!!
Any popcorn air popper such as the WB Poppery can get the green coffee bean=
s
plenty hot enough to roast them.
Don't modify anything to start out, just try your hand at roasting! Outside
your domicile, please. Chaff happens.
For starters, just put ¼ cup of green beans into the craw of the popper,
just like you would if you were popping popcorn. The green coffee expands o=
n
roasting, but it's minimal compared to popcorn. PLEASE PLEASE- ignore advic=
e
to burn the first roast. (When you started driving, did anybody advise you
to wreck the car at high speed on your first solo drive?)
Listen for the distinctive dull popping sound of First crack followed by th=
e
Rice Crispies in milk sound of Second crack. The coffee will Not blow out o=
f
the popper like popcorn when it pops. It will just loft more in the chamber=
.
Lofting and agitation are your friends.
When you hear the rapid snapping sound accompanied by wonderful smoke, Stop=
.
Pull the plug and dump the beans between bowls to cool them and stop the
roast. Roast #1 is in the book.
Make a few notes about what you saw, heard and smelled.
Cool, grind and brew the beans any way you see fit. Keep notes. If you have
the spinning blade grinder, I hope your brewer uses a paper filter. Just tr=
y
to match the grind you normally use.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
"The indisputable truth is that no coffee is fresh if it isn't fresh
roasted." - - Martin Diedrich

5) From: Gerald Newsom
Pete, I think Ginny and Tim have done a good job of answering your
questions, but I wanted to add that you can also store your roasted beans in
mason jars.  Good luck with your popper roasting!
Gerald
On 4/12/07, Tim TenClay  wrote:
<Snip>

6) From: miKe mcKoffee
Pete,
Welcome to the List, enjoy the Journey!
Hot air popper wise, to modify or not to modify, that is the question. Yes
you can turn beans brown with an unmodified popper, or a frying pan, or your
oven for that matter. Will how you turn them brown affect the resulting
taste? Absolutely! But initially probably best to keep it simple and learn
the basics of the bean. Suggest taking a first "sacrificial" batch to very
dark end of 2nd crack observing sound, sight & smell of the stages so you
can learn the stages of the bean for your roasting method. I roasted about a
year with unmodified Caffe' Rosto (roasts similarly to hot air popcorn
popper) and about 5 years now with independent variable heater and fan
voltage control. Both ways worked to roast beans but having control of the
roaster makes roasting, well more controllable! And some roasts (lighter
roasts) can be almost impossible to get a good roast result with a fast
roasting popper.
Greens & roast storage wise opinions vary. IMO there's a preponderance of
evidence to suggest that greens are best stored a method maintaining
moisture level and protecting them from environmental taints. Commercially
some use humidity & temperature controlled storage rooms. Some are now deep
freezing their greens. Greens in a simple sealed plastic bag exposed to
large temp swings can have condensation occur in the bag, not good. The old
standard of breathable bag (cotton, burlap etc.) can have it's problems to.
Let 'em sit a day exposed to high temp high humidity conditions, again way
bad for the bean. But most homes are relatively temp and humidity stable so
keep 'em in a cool location for a few months storage breathable bags
probably fine, plastic zip bags I'd keep time shorter. That said I vacuum
bag sealed my greens which achieves maintaining moisture content and
environmental taint protection. But I also often have greens in stash for a
year or two. (Did 4 year vac greens storage test, two years about the limit
before going way down hill.)
Roast bean storage wise about any container will work fine for consumption
in a week or two. Of course being a freshness extremist, again I vac jar my
roasts straight from roast cooling;-)
Generally speaking I do tend to roast a bit longer (not darker) for straight
shots. FWIW one to two minutes longer with the additional time longer
profile stage from start of 1st to end of roast. For espresso straight shot
roasts I'll usually vary end of roast from maybe 30 seconds into second at
most to a few seconds before anticipated start of 2nd. Depends on the
bean/blend/position of the stars/mood I'm in when roasting.
Pacific Northwest Gathering Vhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGV.htmKona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/	From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Coffee Addict
	Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 6:17 AM
	
	Folks,
	 
	I am new to the list, however I have done a fair amount of searching
the web to find the answer to the quesitons I have.
	 
	I just bought a west bend poppery and my beans from seet marias is
enroute.  
	 
	I have read in several places that you have to modify the pop corn
machine, however I have also read that you do not need to.  Can anyone tell
me which of the two is correct.  My aim is to get the best results I can,
home roasting, without having to spend a ga-gillion dollars on a real bean
roaster.  I already have spent my fair share of money on my coffee maker and
expresso maker, the wife has told me enough is enough (damn non-coffee
drinkers, pffftt).
	 
	Also, I am curious.  How do you folks store your beans, prior to
roasting them.  In addition, once you roast them, how do you store them?  I
was planning on roasting on Sundays, enough to last me through the week
because I don't have time to do it during the week, so can't do it every
three days.  Once I roast them, I was planning on storing the weeks supply
in an air tight ceramic jar.  I mean its air tight in that air can't get in
or out, but  its no vacuum packed or anything like that.
	 
	One last question.  What is the difference between roasting coffee
beans for normal coffee made in an auto drip maker, and beans roasted for
expresso.  Is it simply that you roast expresso beans much longer?
	 
	Thanks in advance for any and all help!
	 
	Pete (a.k.a. CoffeeAddict)

7) From: Eddie Dove
Pete,
You are already getting a plethora of information ...
I just wanted to welcome you to the list!
Eddie
-- 
Docendo Discimus
Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafehttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 4/12/07, Coffee Addict  wrote:">http://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 4/12/07, Coffee Addict  wrote:
<Snip>

8) From: Brian Kamnetz
I don't think I saw the matter of the bimetal thermostat addressed. My
apologies if it was addressed and I missed it.
Most poppers have a thermo cut-off device to keep the popper from getting
too hot and burning itself up. If your roast seems to "stall" (won't get to
first or won't get to second cracks) you may need to do a search for
instructions and remove the bimetal piece from the cut-off switch.
Brian
On 4/12/07, Eddie Dove  wrote:
<Snip>

9) From: raymanowen
"...vacuum bag sealed my greens which achieves maintaining moisture content"
Wanna see just how well a vacuum maintains moisture level?
BTW- How long would the water stay in your radiator if the radiator cap were
connected to a vacuum pump instead of a spring loaded pressure cap??
Water has temperature dependent vapor pressure and will tend to leave unless
it's constrained. There is always thermal energy (temperature) except at
absolute zero. Don't do this, but imagine a dramatic demonstration: take off
your radiator cap and drive a few miles.
When you stop, you'll notice moisture doing the natural thing at atmospheric
pressure. You're sending the moisture an engraved invitation to head for the
exit if you try to evacuate the container.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
Whatever works

10) From: Justin Marquez
On 4/12/07, raymanowen  wrote:
<Snip>
A vacuum removes moisture so well that commercial refrigeration guys use a
vacuum pump to totally dry out a refrig system prior to loading the
refrigerant into the loop. (Any water in the system can freeze up and clog
and/or cause corrosion and/or ruin the compressor.)
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)

11) From: miKe mcKoffee
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Indeed vacuum sealing greens would tend to evacuate "environmental" moisture
during the vacuum process. However, if as postulated the moisture content of
the beans is drawn out while sitting hermetically sealed in a vacuumed bag,
where is the moisture to go? Why years later is there zero condensation on
the interior of the bag if the moisture is leaving the beans?  Why don't 6
year vac bag sealed greens roast like they're dried out? ("Old Brown"). 
 
Tom's write-up states "Old Brown" was still at 10.8% moisture content when
he received them after 3+ years aging in Country. I don't recall how long I
got them after he received them so don't know how long they sat in his
storage in burlap but a couple months at most. I also don't have the
equipment to measure the current moisture level but if Tom is game will send
him a some to test! Probably more definitive than comparing coffee greens to
water in a car's radiator or refrigeration condenser line.
 
Pacific Northwest Gathering Vhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGV.htmKona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/ 
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Justin Marquez
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:09 AM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Pop Corn Popper and roasting beans
On 4/12/07, raymanowen  wrote: 
"...vacuum bag sealed my greens which achieves maintaining moisture content"
Wanna see just how well a vacuum maintains moisture level? 
When you stop, you'll notice moisture doing the natural thing at atmospheric
pressure. You're sending the moisture an engraved invitation to head for the
exit if you try to evacuate the container.
A vacuum removes moisture so well that commercial refrigeration guys use a
vacuum pump to totally dry out a refrig system prior to loading the
refrigerant into the loop. (Any water in the system can freeze up and clog
and/or cause corrosion and/or ruin the compressor.) 
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX) 

12) From: Brett Mason
Welcome Pete!
Since you don' yet have beans, make sure you have a couple other essentials
already in place...
1. Cooling mechanism.
     This can be a metal collander and a wooden spoon - you dump the hot
beans into the collander, and stir them over and over until the internal
roasting of the beans stops - otherwise they keep on going
     This can be a metal sheet pan into which you dump the beans, and a
spatula (metal) to turn them over and over
     Some use a fan in a frame, and set a metal pan or collander on top,
letting the fan do the cooling
     Some build a frame with a metal screen, place this over the fan, and
pour the beans into it
     I have a tray that I put on my granite counter, and then pour the beans
into it - counter works like a heat sink.  Cement patio does the same with
this setup.
2. Storage mechanism
     Jelly jars with screw on lids
     Mason jars with latches and seals (I have one of those)
     plastic bags
     ceramic jars with sealing lids
3. Handy tools
     flat spatula
     long handled wooden spoon
     2x8 board, cut on a slant, to let your popper sit at a 20 degree angle
     oven mitts for when you want to reach down and pick up those 400 degree
beans
     kitchen scale so you can more measure before roasting, and get
consistent
     notebook and pencil so you can take notes and learn
     some method of brewing coffee - without this you are only a scientist
Here's what you should do when you get your beans:
     Roast them
     Cool them
     Brew them
     Take notes
        Repeat
Best regards,
Brett
   RWA
On 4/12/07, Coffee Addict  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

13) From: Floyd Lozano
yeah, but to keep moisture out presumably you need air / water tight (to
keep out both phases) seal, especially with the pressure gradient, yo.
maybe that's what he was getting at.  or maybe he was stating just that,
that water will want to leave if you vacuum, so if you want to *maintain*
moisture level, vacuum isn't the best thing - you'll decrease it instead of
maintain it.  maybe that's your point too.  maybe i'm done now.  i am glad i
had this conversation with me.
-F
On 4/12/07, Justin Marquez  wrote:
<Snip>

14) From: Larry Johnson
OK, I'll bite.
When miKe mcKoffee vac-seals his beans, they are not residing in a vacuum;
they are still under the same amount of atmospheric pressure as before. The
vac-seal just removes the air from the container, allowing the plastic
material to snuggle right up to the beans. Air pressure outside the
container presses the plastic and the beans tightly together, drastically
reducing the venting of moisture (it's got nowhere to go, and all day to get
there). There are pockets of low pressure in the gaps, but total volume of
that area is probably very small. If this were not true (or something like
it) then vac-sealing food wouldn't work very well either, but it does.
When Ray-O drives his car with his radiator cap off, his water boils away
and his Hupmobile overheats because the water *does* have somewhere to go,
and it's in a hurry to get there. By the way, Ray-O, a good glycol-based
coolant is better for the Hupmobile's innards and has a much higher boiling
point than water, just FYI.
On 4/12/07, Floyd Lozano  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Larry J
If this is coffee, please bring me some tea; but if this is tea, please
bring me some coffee.
  - Abraham Lincoln

15) From: David Liguori
raymanowen wrote:
<Snip>
I don't think he's talking microtorrs, just pulling most of the air space out of the bag.  But it's the bag, not the very partial vacuum, that's holding the moisture in for him.

16) From: Michael Dhabolt
Pete,
As Brian correctly mentioned,
Brian Kamnetz wrote:
<Snip>
There is a pretty thorough section on this matter in an article at:http://homeroasters.org/php/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id2&thread_id&9the section on Poppery thermostats and how to deal with them is about 3/4 of
the way through the article (pictures and everything).  If it leaves any
questions unanswered please let me know.
Mike (just plain)

17) From: Ed Needham
Generally, with regard to greens, what is comfortable for you is good for 
the beans.  Good air, moderate temps and humidity.  Short term (few months), 
there's not much you are going to do to harm the beans short of spilling 
cleaning supplies on them.
Some roasters are more particular than others about their greens.
Roast what you'll use in a week.  Keep roasted beans in a sealed jar or 
Mylar zip loc coffee bag.
Some here are more particular than that.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

18) From: Justin Marquez
On 4/12/07, Ed Needham  wrote:
<Snip>
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)


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