HomeRoast Digest


Topic: is it first or second crack (27 msgs / 729 lines)
1) From: Bruess, Don
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Hi All,
 
 
This is more directed to the people using Hot Tops for the coffee
roasting.
 
I am little confused about the cracking. I have a Hot Top and have been
roasting for a couple of years with it. I was going through the archives
and tips trying to better my roasting when I stopped and really read
about the first/second crack. My problem is I am starting to lose some
of my hearing skills and do not know if what I am hearing is the first
crack or the second. I have listened as best as I can for the muted
cracking of what I perceive would be the first crack without any luck.
When the sweet grassy smell leaves and the beans turn from orange to
brown I do start to get a crack much like muted popcorn but, I do not
know if it is the first or second. I tend to like my coffee mellow and a
little sweeter (no sugar added) so after reading some of the archives I
found that a roast closer to first crack tends to be sweeter and that is
why I am now trying to hard to verify which crack I am hearing.
 
Thanks for any input.
 
Don

2) From: miKe mcKoffee
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
If the beans are just browning, still blotchy surface and no oil etc. then
definitely 1st crack. 
 
Pacific Northwest Gathering Vhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGV.htmKona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/ 
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Bruess, Don
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 12:58 PM
Hi All,
This is more directed to the people using Hot Tops for the coffee roasting.
I am little confused about the cracking. I have a Hot Top and have been
roasting for a couple of years with it. I was going through the archives and
tips trying to better my roasting when I stopped and really read about the
first/second crack. My problem is I am starting to lose some of my hearing
skills and do not know if what I am hearing is the first crack or the
second. I have listened as best as I can for the muted cracking of what I
perceive would be the first crack without any luck. When the sweet grassy
smell leaves and the beans turn from orange to brown I do start to get a
crack much like muted popcorn but, I do not know if it is the first or
second. I tend to like my coffee mellow and a little sweeter (no sugar
added) so after reading some of the archives I found that a roast closer to
first crack tends to be sweeter and that is why I am now trying to hard to
verify which crack I am hearing.
Thanks for any input.
Don

3) From: Eddie Dove
Don,
Yes, that should be the vicinity of first crack.
I do not have a Hottop, but do have a hearing impediment.  While I do,
at times struggle to hear the cracks, I have come to rely heavily on
the smells as well.  In my limited experience, and in general ...
City is when the the fragrance is most delicate, sweet, floral, fruity
City+ is when these fragrances sharpen ... if that makes sense
Full City is when the aroma can begin to become pungent
I hope this info coupled with a timer and experience will be helpful ...
Eddie
-- 
Docendo Discimus
Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafehttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 4/16/07, Bruess, Don  wrote:">http://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 4/16/07, Bruess, Don  wrote:
<Snip>

4) From: DJ Garcia
First crack is louder than second crack, so if you have been by the =
roaster
all along and start hearing cracks, they are likely to be first, and may
last a minute or more. Second is crack is mellower, more like thin
toothpicks snapping, and may occasionally run into first crack, making
identification even harder. But it varies from bean to bean. Some crack =
very
loudly and repeatedly, some much less and / or may be sparse.
DJ

5) From: L. Michael Fraley, MD
This is great timing on this question.  I have always had difficulty 
hearing 1st CR, but no problem at all hearing 2nd CR with my Hottop.  2 
days ago, when I got my baby up and running, I started playing around 
with an idea I have been thinking about for a while.  I am using an old 
stethoscope of mine to try to hear the 1st CR better.  It does help 
some, though it amplifies the sound of the machine running as well.  
Here are links to 2 pics I captured with my cell phone of the setup.  
Sorry for the quality.http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p40/picklemanphotos/HottopSteth.jpghttp://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p40/picklemanphotos/HottopSteth2.jpg
I know.. I am a home-roasting, medical geek!  :-)
Michael
On Apr 16, 2007, at 6:57 PM, Eddie Dove wrote:
Don,
Yes, that should be the vicinity of first crack.
I do not have a Hottop, but do have a hearing impediment.  While I do,
at times struggle to hear the cracks, I have come to rely heavily on
the smells as well.  In my limited experience, and in general ...
City is when the the fragrance is most delicate, sweet, floral, fruity
City+ is when these fragrances sharpen ... if that makes sense
Full City is when the aroma can begin to become pungent
I hope this info coupled with a timer and experience will be helpful ...
Eddie
-- 
Docendo Discimus
Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafehttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 4/16/07, Bruess, Don  wrote:">http://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 4/16/07, Bruess, Don  wrote:
<Snip>

6) From: stereoplegic
i tried that when i first started roasting w/ a popper. i actually heard 
better by pulling the diaphragm off and just listening through the tube. 
unfortunately the tube started to melt. fortunately, my skills were 
starting to improve and i found that the stethoscope was more of a 
hindrance than a help (it hurt my ears anyway, didn't want to explain to 
a doc that i perforated my tympanic membrane by using a tool of his 
trade to roast coffee). to be fair, my scope wasn't nearly as nice as 
Dr. Michael's (you can find anything on eBay, but that doesn't always 
mean it's worth finding).
lmichaelfraley wrote:
<Snip>

7) From: Bruess, Don
I seem to be getting some conflicting opinions on which crack are
louder. Is the first crack louder, second crack, or depends on the bean?
Don

8) From: L. Michael Fraley, MD
Yeah, if you could see the head of my stethoscope, you would see that I 
removed the diaphragm.  It does help.
Michael
On Apr 17, 2007, at 2:18 AM, stereoplegic wrote:
i tried that when i first started roasting w/ a popper. i actually 
heard better by pulling the diaphragm off and just listening through 
the tube. unfortunately the tube started to melt. fortunately, my 
skills were starting to improve and i found that the stethoscope was 
more of a hindrance than a help (it hurt my ears anyway, didn't want to 
explain to a doc that i perforated my tympanic membrane by using a tool 
of his trade to roast coffee). to be fair, my scope wasn't nearly as 
nice as Dr. Michael's (you can find anything on eBay, but that doesn't 
always mean it's worth finding).
lmichaelfraley wrote:
<Snip>

9) From: Barry Luterman
By removing the diaphragm you are relying on the resonance of the rubber 
tube to amplify the sound of the cracks. Shortening or lengthening the tube 
will allow you to tune the resonator until you reach a frequency that your 
hearing  is the best at. The resonator does not have to be rubber a copper 
tube will work well. When the right length is achieved, if your hearing 
impairment is not too severe, you should be able to hear first crack.

10) From: Barry Luterman
Actually it is the resonance of the column of the air trapped in the tube 
that you hear, Not the rubber or copper.

11) From: Floyd Lozano
Actually aren't you hearing your tympanum vibrate, the energy of which is
transferred along the 3 bones of the middle ear and to the cochlea, where
the fluid contained therein causes tiny hairs to move which magically
translates this movement to nerve impulses or something?  The only
difference is the object causing the vibrations and the medium through which
the transverse waves propogate, I think.  But I'm not an earologist.
-F
On 4/17/07, Barry Luterman  wrote:
<Snip>

12) From: Bruess, Don
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Well which ever part transfer the sound mine must require more sound to
work. I only hear one crack and I wish I knew if it was first or second.
Some say first is louder and some say second. Could we have a vote so I
can have a consensus?     
 
Don
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Floyd Lozano
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 12:56 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +is it first or second crack
 
Actually aren't you hearing your tympanum vibrate, the energy of which
is transferred along the 3 bones of the middle ear and to the cochlea,
where the fluid contained therein causes tiny hairs to move which
magically translates this movement to nerve impulses or something?  The
only difference is the object causing the vibrations and the medium
through which the transverse waves propogate, I think.  But I'm not an
earologist. 
-F
 
On 4/17/07, Barry Luterman  wrote: 
Actually it is the resonance of the column of the air trapped in the
tube
that you hear, Not the rubber or copper. 

13) From: Larry Johnson
Hoo-hah! Another tinker project! Off to Lowe's.....
On 4/17/07, Barry Luterman  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Larry J
Men have become the tools of their tools.
  - Henry David Thoreau

14) From: Barry Luterman
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Actually, I am an Audiologist. What you are describing is the physiology =
of hearing. What I am describing is the physics of resonance and =
amplification.

15) From: Larry Johnson
Don,
1st crack sounds more like popcorn; individual 'pops' that, to me, sound
louder than 2nd crack, which is more like rice krispies getting doused with
milk, or someone crinkling cellophane. I think the difference you're hearing
from people's experience is mostly due to the different mechanisms they use
to roast and the differences in the audible ranges in which they have
hearing loss. Some roasters must mask the sound of one of these cracks more
than the other. I could hear both cracks just fine in my Fresh Roast, but
could only hear 1st in the iRoast2. I can hear 1st very well in my bread
machine/heat gun setup, but have to turn off the bread machine's stirring to
hear 2nd. From some of the accounts I've read, it sounds like some of the
other roasters may cover the sound of 1st more than 2nd, as opposed to my
roasters which have been the opposite.
Does this make sense?
On 4/17/07, Bruess, Don  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Larry J
Men have become the tools of their tools.
  - Henry David Thoreau

16) From: john nanavati
First crack is definitely louder.
First crack is like popcorn and second crack is like rice krispies (with
milk in a bowel as opposed to square with marshmallow ;- )
On 4/17/07, Bruess, Don  wrote:
<Snip>

17) From: john nanavati
let alone being square. (dam spellchecker)
On 4/17/07, Marc Dupuis  wrote:
<Snip>
--
John Nanavati
Plainfield, New Jersey

18) From: Tom Ulmer
What you described happening right after the grassy smell goes away and the
volume of smoke production increases is first crack.

19) From: Laura Micucci
I did NOT have a mouth full of coffee when I read this, THANK GOD!
On 4/17/07, Marc Dupuis  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Laura Micucci
www.freshroastedforyou.com

20) From: L. Michael Fraley, MD
Help us!  :-)
Michael
On Apr 17, 2007, at 1:56 PM, Floyd Lozano wrote:
Actually aren't you hearing your tympanum vibrate, the energy of which =
is transferred along the 3 bones of the middle ear and to the cochlea, =
where the fluid contained therein causes tiny hairs to move which 
magically translates this movement to nerve impulses or something?  =
The 
only difference is the object causing the vibrations and the medium 
through which the transverse waves propogate, I think.  But I'm not an =
earologist.
-F
 
On 4/17/07, Barry Luterman  wrote: Actually =
it is the resonance of the column of the air trapped in the tube
<Snip>
L. Michael Fraley, MD

21) From: L. Michael Fraley, MD
I hear second crack as louder.
Michael
On Apr 17, 2007, at 2:19 PM, Bruess, Don wrote:
Well which ever part transfer the sound mine must require more sound to =
work. I only hear one crack and I wish I knew if it was first or 
second. Some say first is louder and some say second. Could we have a 
vote so I can have a consensus?    
 
Don
 
From: homeroast-admin 
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Floyd 
Lozano
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 12:56 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +is it first or second crack
 
Actually aren't you hearing your tympanum vibrate, the energy of which =
is transferred along the 3 bones of the middle ear and to the cochlea, =
where the fluid contained therein causes tiny hairs to move which 
magically translates this movement to nerve impulses or something?  =
The 
only difference is the object causing the vibrations and the medium 
through which the transverse waves propogate, I think.  But I'm not an =
earologist.
-F
   
On 4/17/07, Barry Luterman  wrote:
Actually it is the resonance of the column of the air trapped in the 
tube
  that you hear, Not the rubber or copper.
L. Michael Fraley, MD=

22) From: L. Michael Fraley, MD
Dear Sir,
I must inform you that you are in violation of the rule requiring a
Spew Alert when posting an especially funny post in the forum.  Future
posts from you will be monitored, and further violations could result
in further annoying messages, like this one.
Lt. Michael
Spew Alert Officer
On Apr 17, 2007, at 3:04 PM, Marc Dupuis wrote:
<Snip>
One Care: free Trial Version Today! homeroast mailing list =http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change your =
personal list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to =http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettingsL. Michael Fraley, MD=

23) From: jim gundlach
Michael,
I can only guess that the first crack may be at the pitch of possible  
hearing loss and the second crack outside it.  I haven't thought to  
listen for pitch differences, I'm probably not the best one to do  
it .  Any one with perfect pitch out there?
     Pecan Jim
On Apr 17, 2007, at 6:10 PM, L. Michael Fraley, MD wrote:
<Snip>

24) From: Barry Luterman
The frequency of second crack is definitely higher than first crack. Those 
people with mild high frequency sensori-neural hearing impairments will have 
no trouble hearing first crack and yet be quite unaware of second crack.

25) From: Larry Johnson
I have perfect pitch (and tinnitus to go with it). The pitch of 2nd is
higher than 1st, but 1st is also louder and more distinct with its
individual pops. 2nd borders on being white noise, especially with other
noise in the background (fan, heat gun, bread machine motor, beans swishing
in whatever, etc.). I have to turn off the bread machine stirrer to hear
2nd.
On 4/17/07, jim gundlach  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Larry J
Men have become the tools of their tools.
  - Henry David Thoreau

26) From: raymanowen
"...milk in a bowel " could be a harbinger of some sort of plumbing
problem?? -ro
I agree- it is louder when the cracks are turned on.

27) From: Frank Parth
Like other people I had a problem hearing first crack in my Gene Cafe, but not second crack. It turned out that 
thegreen beans were so hard and dense that their clattering against the glass was masking the sound of first crack.
This changed when I brought my beans to 325 degrees for five minutes or so to dry them out. After that I bring themto 
425, and then to 456. Since then I can hear first crack much better.
Frank Parth
<Snip>


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