HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Several newbie questions. (13 msgs / 277 lines)
1) From: Jason
1.  When pulling a double shot of espresso, should the time still be
around 25 seconds?  I ask because, I am learning the finer points of
espresso, and really starting to enjoy it.  When I make a single shot
with the Moka Kidar that that SM sent pre-roasted, it is sweet and
smooth, when I make a double shot, it seems rather bitter, and I will
say more intense.
2.  Am I going to dark on my roasts? I have roasted up two roasts of
"Dark roast" targeting for Vienna roast.  I would say very bitter...
and dirtish on the tounge.  When I adjusted the grind, to a courser
grind, the shot pulled in about 15 seconds.
3.  Resting...  Oh where to start here, I have been watching the
resting varibles topic very intently.  I mentioned that I wanted to
try some more coffee's from Panama, and roasted up what I thought was
a very unimpressive batch of La Berlina Estate, well the first two
pots, 24 and 48 hours after weren't very impressive.  After about a 7
day rest, it made one of the best pots of coffee I have had to date
out of some of the coffee I have roasted ?!?!  I am very confused.
This coffee was roasted just to the edge of FC+.
4.  Out of curiosity, someone mentioned pulling espresso shots with
the Mariur Estate.  Would you roast it to the same level around a FC
for them?  Or make a special batch of a darker roast?
Thanks for any help, here...
Still learning,
CR

2) From: Les
CR,
First off, espresso is a drink not a roast.  The best roast level for a bean
or blend should taste good no matter the brew method.  That said, some
coffees have a wide latitude of roasting.  For example, Uganda Bugisu can be
roasted from cinnamon to Vienna with great results, but a marked difference
in flavor.  However, some of the Centrals have very narrow sweet spots.
Second for us to help we need to know what kind of grinder you have and what
kind of espresso machine.  Not all are created equal and not all use the
same techniques.
Third we need to know what kind of roaster you are using.  My guess is your
profiles need some work to get better espresso.  Especially if you got
markedly better results with the roasted coffee from SM.  We are hear to
help, but we need more information.
Les
On 4/19/07, Jason  wrote:
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3) From: Jason
Les,
Thanks...
Roaster: Nesco
Grinder: Solis Maestro
Espresso machine: Gaggia Espresso
On item 1,  watching the video/instruction CD that came with the
machine, I am grinding most coffee to a 3-5 setting on the Maestro,
and adding two level scoops for a double shot, giving it a soft pack
and then a solid 30lb ish, pack and twist.  When drawing, I let the
machine warm up for about 5 min or so, just over 2 Oz, of liquid, in
about 21-24 seconds.  As I mentioned I have had some single shots from
the pre-roasted blend from SM taste wonderful, all most all of my
doubleshots, are punjent and bitter.  VERY bitter.  Not unenjoyable or
burned tasting however.
On item 2, I think this might be my biggest variable.  When roasting,
I have been going to the dark roast line, and going about 21 min, when
the roast is done, the beans are very dark and oily, still just a hint
of brown, I wouldn't call them black.
Item 3, I am still watching the resting thread, and I know I just need
to play with that over time.

4) From: miKe mcKoffee
1) Five minute warm-up is way too short, even for a little Gaggia. The
boiler ready light coming ready means the boiler has come up to temp, not
the whole machine, and I'd wager the group still cool to the touch. Are you
using any flush to initially warm the group and any other form of
temperature surfing? Quite possible if using no temp management a lower
volume single first shot from cold machine comes out better because cold
group lowers temp of water coming from your boiler, greater volume double
shot heating the group more. FYI bitter usually indicative of too high shot
temp or over extraction (over extraction can be result of pulling too long
and/or channeling).
To answer your original question yes, a double shot target is 25 sec 2 to
3oz, while single shot 25 sec 1 to 1.5oz. Exact time isn't "all important",
stop the shot just before blonding starts regardless of time or volume.
Blonding indicates over extraction which will be bitter.
If you haven't, highly suggest you spend some time, lots of time, studying
espresso techniques etc.http://www.home-barista.com/howtos.htmlThere are also a few threads on HB forum specifically addressing Gaggia temp
management.
2) Question, when you got some Moka Kadir roasted by Tom (a blend he crafted
specifically to withstand dark roasting without going ashy etc.) was Tom's
MK roast very dark and oily barely brown like your roasts? (I haven't
ordered Maka Kadir roasted so maybe, but I highly doubt it.) Most coffees
will be terrible roasted very dark and oily with just a hint of brown left,
though a few can withstand going that dark. Follow Tom's roast degree
suggestions for given beans/blends!
Have you checked out Tom's Pictorial Guide to the Roast Process? It may be
helpful.http://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGV.htmKona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee">http://www.sweetmarias.com/roasting-VisualGuideV2.htmlPacific Northwest Gathering Vhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGV.htmKona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
<Snip>

5) From: Jason
That is what is making me think I am killing the coffee.  Tom's MK, is
brown, brown a rich dark brown, not barely brown.  My LQ amber is
leaning more toward the black if you back away from it in with the
light in my kitchen.
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6) From: miKe mcKoffee
Compost, sounds like you were approaching charcoal roast! I'd roast another
batch going lighter. Also, really "read" Tom's write-ups. LA is a sharp
pungent blend and requires at least 2 days rest before pulling shots. IMO 4
to 5 days rest for straights shots just about any bean/blend even better.
Pacific Northwest Gathering Vhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGV.htmKona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
 
<Snip>

7) From: Floyd Lozano
Is this a new Nesco?  Tom mentioned way long ago in his review that these
had trouble achieving dark roasts, but I have heard they may have tweaked
this machine significantly since the name change and that it's capable of
roasting a lot darker now.  I am curious to know since I have been thinking
of getting one for the days I can't roast outside.
-F
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8) From: Jason
I have found if you fill to the dark roast line, 26 min will create
carbon units.
On 4/20/07, Floyd Lozano  wrote:
<Snip>

9) From: Les
I ditto what Mike has said.  It sounds like you have your grinder
dialed in.  Don't be afraid to run water through your Gaggia.  I would
say you are overroasting your coffee.  I call it the *$ syndrome.
Every time Dr. Crema makes a house call with beans the first comment
is, "you sure roast your beans light."  As I said in my first post,
espresso is a drink not a roast.  I just had a wonderful double shot
of Moka Kadir roasted at city plus.  Not a bitter hint in the shot!
Sweet, complex, chocolate hints with a malty after finish.  It doesn't
get much better!   Roast those beans lighter and you may just be
amazed.
Les
On 4/20/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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10) From: Jason
Les,
Thank you!!!  Since you just put it in those terms, I am now tracking
with you.  I have been reading HB, and yeah I have not gotten the
machine warmed up properly.  Second, I was curious about the other
roast profile for a couple reasons.  One, am I going way darker then I
think I am?  (Yes I was) Second, As mentioned, I really am still
learning and realize it, I haven't been able to find many discussions
of times on the actual Nesco roaster, which as someone mentioned
appears to be tweeked a bit... but having a great place to start,
gives easier places to go.
Again thank you everyone for your input!!! I am learning quite a bit!
On 4/20/07, Les  wrote:
 I just had a wonderful double shot of Moka Kadir roasted at city
plus.  Not a bitter hint in the shot!
<Snip>

11) From: Les
Remember to have fun and enjoy the journey.  It won't be long and you
may be there already, you will be making espresso that is betterr than
90% of what you pay 2-5 bucks for.
Les
On 4/20/07, Jason  wrote:
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12) From: Jason
Les,
I can't touch their regular coffee, much less a straight espresso from
them.  I am having a great time learning!  Everyone here has been
super helpful, so let me say thanks again.
On 4/20/07, Les  wrote:
<Snip>

13) From: Jason
Ok thank you all so much, armed with the knowledge from conversation
today, and reading on the HB website, I changed several things I was
doing.  First, pulled a double shot of MK, it hit Toms flavor profile
right on the dot!!!  When you can see and taste the difference, it is
a good feeling.  The second was another double shot of MK since it was
in the grinder already, which I actually made a decent latte, with the
information I learned, not pretty like some, but very very smooth and
drinkable!
Well time to put my evening energy to good use and get down the road!


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