HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Dark Roasts with Nesco / Zach & Dani's Roaster (25 msgs / 595 lines)
1) From: DeCambre.Peter
I will be out of the office starting  11/26/2002 and will not return
until 12/02/2002.
I will respond to your message when I return.
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

2) From: Eddie Dove
Floyd,
These roasters got "tweaked" when they were still Zach & Dani's.  I
bought one last summer (~July 2006) and I could turn anything to
charcoal in that roaster.  I think 19 minutes was the longest I
roasted anything in mine and that was a French roast.
Eddie
-- 
Docendo Discimus
Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafehttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 4/20/07, Floyd Lozano  wrote:">http://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 4/20/07, Floyd Lozano  wrote:
<Snip>

3) From: Jason
Eddie,
Where are you loading the chamber to/How much weight are you adding,
to make a good Vienna roast?  Do you have any roasting profile logs
you would be willing to share?
On 4/20/07, Eddie Dove  wrote:
<Snip>

4) From: Eddie Dove
Jason,
I haven't used this roaster since last August; looking at the one
roasting / brewing logs I could find in gmail, it appears that the
French Roast of Timor was done in 15 minutes when filled to the "Full
Line" and 2nd crack had started at 13:00 minutes.
I will forward this log to you offlist and if you wish, I can forward
my others this evening.  I'm not sure how good or how much use they
will be to you because I had just started roasting, but I'll be glad
to share them in hopes that they will be helpful.
Eddie
-- 
Docendo Discimus
Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafehttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 4/20/07, Jason  wrote:">http://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 4/20/07, Jason  wrote:
<Snip>

5) From: Les
Jason,
Why are you obsessed with the *$ syndrome.  There are just a few
advantages to vienna roast.  Before I share them let me state this
disclaimer: "Some beans do well at a vienna roast, but they are far
and few between."  Second a good vienna roast is as difficult to
achieve as a good cinnamon roast.  So why do you see so many beans
roasted dark.  Inferior beans can be made to taste the same because
you are tasting the carbonation of the bean not varietal flavor. Beans
will last forever if you coat them with carbon.  Carbon covers stale
flavored beans sort of!  Last, why would you want such a boring cup of
coffee.  The transformations of a good city to city plus roast as it
cools is amazing.  Last, you can't get nice thick crema from a vienna
roast like you can get from a good city - city plus roast.   You have
a wonderful roaster for doing city - full-city roasts, but a very poor
roaster for doing vienna roasts.  You really need a drum roaster to do
a good vienna roast.  My last bit of advice is if you are going to do
a vienna roast, you need to look for the highest grown and hardest
beans.  I would encourage you to explore the  lighter roasts and be
amazed at what flavors pressure extraction can do.  I will say it
again, Espresso is a drink not a roast!
Les
On 4/20/07, Jason  wrote:
<Snip>

6) From: Eddie Dove
Jason,
To echo Les' sentiments, I did not do very many "dark" roasts with the
Nesco and that may have been the only one that went to French.  While
the it was very good at that level of roast, I perish the thought of
roasting the Timor FTO Maubesse to that degree anymore.  It is such a
delightful coffee that when brewed right out of the roaster (City+ -
Full City) it has a wonderful butterscotch flavor.
While I am by no means a veteran roaster (haven't even been roasting
for a year), I have worked very hard at learning to roast and Les is
one of the many coffee roasting veterans (over 22 years?) on this list
from whom I have learned.  Every bit of what Les said it true and
worthy of being taken to heart.
The best roast I have ever had was probably a cinnamon roast (by
accident I am sure) of the Ethiopia Organic Idido Misty Valley.  The
best brew of that was in a Krups Moka Brew; the Meyer Lemon flavor was
astounding and inspiring.  It was such a great way to start the day,
that I went out and rode my motorcycle for a few minutes. When I
returned home, I had gone 270 miles!
To me, each bean is a treasure chest; don't set fire to it ... look
for the keys to unlock it!
Respectfully,
Eddie
-- 
Docendo Discimus
Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafehttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 4/20/07, Les  wrote:">http://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 4/20/07, Les  wrote:
<Snip>

7) From: Jason
As I just mentioned on the other side, ok I get it now!!!!  I am very
excited to get home and play on Sunday!  See even if it takes a bit of
time, I will get it eventually...

8) From: Eddie Dove
Jason,
One thing that will help you get a better command quicker is to read
the "Pictorial Guide to the Roast Process"
http://www.sweetmarias.com/roasting-VisualGuideV2.html)then have it
with you as you roast one batch to a very dark roast, taking notes
(sights, smells, sounds, etc) and noting times along the way.
Specifically note beginning and end of 1st & 2nd crack.  This will
give you an approximation of what you are shooting for on future
roasts.
Hope this helps ...
Eddie
-- 
Docendo Discimus
Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafehttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 4/20/07, Jason  wrote:">http://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/On 4/20/07, Jason  wrote:
<Snip>

9) From: Floyd Lozano
Well, in your defense, Tom sometimes suggests Vienna for certain beans or
blends, and often suggests darker roasts for SO espresso shots in his
cupping notes, and I just assumed you were trying for that because it was
suggested.
-F
On 4/20/07, Jason  wrote:
<Snip>

10) From: Jason
Actually Floyd is correct on how I got started down that path.  Thank
you all for helping to set me straight.
Eddie,
I actually had a copy (printed) that I keep near by...  However, I
also do photography, and my screens are color balanced to my camera,
which are a bit off to most of the world... However yes, now that I
know I really am just charing the crap out of some of these roasts.

11) From: miKe mcKoffee
Floyd,
Indeed Tom does sometimes suggest Vienna as possible roast, but Vienna is
not almost black and very oil and barely brown by Tom's definition.
 
Quote from Tom's updated roast pictorial:
"The Vienna stage (also called Continental) to Light French stage is where
you begin to find Origin Character eclipsed by Roast Character. If you buy
coffee for its distinct origin qualities, it makes sense that heavy roasting
is at odds with revealing the full effect of the differences we can sense in
coffee due to distinct origins. Nontheless, some coffees are excellent at
this stage (our Puro Scuro blend is engineered for this roast range). 
By the way; Espresso is not a roast. But Northern Italian style espresso is
usually roasted to 440 - 446 internal bean temperature. Southern Italian
(Scura) is generally a Light French Roast or a tad darker. "
End quote.
Note Vienna roast is lighter than French roast and definitely lighter than
Spanish/charcoal roast! When Tom suggests a darker roast (as compared to
City City+ etc.) it doesn't mean to roast dark virtually black and very
oily!
Pacific Northwest Gathering Vhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGV.htmKona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/	From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Floyd Lozano
	Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 11:26 AM
	To: homeroast
	Subject: Re: +Dark Roasts with Nesco / Zach & Dani's Roaster
	
	Well, in your defense, Tom sometimes suggests Vienna for certain
beans or blends, and often suggests darker roasts for SO espresso shots in
his cupping notes, and I just assumed you were trying for that because it
was suggested. 
	-F

12) From: Eddie Dove
Jason wrote, I actually had a copy (printed) that I keep near by...  However, I
also do photography, and my screens are color balanced to my camera,
which are a bit off to most of the world..."
I understand this completely; a friend of mine does the same.
However, trust bean color the least until you become familiar with the
color attributes of different beans as they are roasted to different
levels.  Color can be deceiving.  On the other hand, gloss black is
usually a pretty reliable indicator.  ;-)
Eddie
On 4/20/07, Jason  wrote:
<Snip>

13) From: Floyd Lozano
My statement was in response to suggestions that Vienna was not as
worthwhile a target and focus on lighter roasts.  Spain may be on the same
continent as Vienna, but they are worlds apart in roastland.  Tom's
suggestions as well as others' on this list are good guidance for sure, just
don't get trapped into thinking one way or another is the only way is all
I'm trying to say.
I'll tell you this, trying to figure out what roast level is what is damn
near impossible without someone to show you how.  Descriptions and pictures
only get you so far.  I still can't be sure what is FC+ or C+ because
everyone describes it slightly differently enough that it's ambiguous.  Sure
would like to have someone just be able to show me 'look, see these beans
right there - that's FC+.  It's different from FC because of the blah and
the blah and the blah'  I think I need Eddie's calibration equipment or
something, or an agtronometer, cause I can't seem to discern the shades of
brown all that well.  So that's my struggle.  God bless all you folks that
just seem to know, you don't know (well maybe you do) just how lucky you
are.
-F
On 4/20/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>

14) From: raymanowen
Floyd, "the blah and the blah and the blah" of it is:
How long does it take for the swish of the beans to have the sound of a
firing range superimposed on it, and how long does that persist?
I haven't yet figured out just how I'm going to quickly unload the drum into
my cooler without the Waffle Iron Imprint, or depleting my supply of Aloe
Vera gel.
As it is, with the HG/BM, I can coax an early snap of 2nd or let the roast
start a rolling Second Crack. In 5seconds, the 460g of smoking, crackling
beans are in the cooling colander in the furnace blower intake venturi, all
stopped and I'm stirring them with my bare hand. In 60seconds, I'm dumping
them through the Mazzer hopper funnel into a 1qt Mason fruit jar.
After the jar is shaken down and capped, I use the excess in my first Stein
way swoon. (Best use of a 16oz Captain Morgan Stein. Tom has already cupped,
I taste the Stein way!)
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."  - -Thomas
A. Edison 

15) From: raymanowen
Floyd, "the blah and the blah and the blah" of it is:
How long does it take for the swish of the beans to have the sound of a
firing range superimposed on it, and how long does that persist?
I haven't yet figured out just how I'm going to quickly unload the drum into
my cooler without the Waffle Iron Imprint, or depleting my supply of Aloe
Vera gel.
As it is, with the HG/BM, I can coax an early snap of 2nd or let the roast
start a rolling Second Crack. In 5seconds, the 460g of smoking, crackling
beans are in the cooling colander in the furnace blower intake venturi, all
stopped and I'm stirring them with my bare hand. In 60seconds, I'm dumping
them through the Mazzer hopper funnel into a 1qt Mason fruit jar.
After the jar is shaken down and capped, I use the excess in my first Stein
way swoon. (Best use of a 16oz Captain Morgan Stein. Tom has already cupped,
I taste the Stein way!)
 Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
"People should think things out fresh and not just accept conventional terms
and the conventional way of doing things."  - -R. Buckminster
Fuller

16) From: Ed Needham
You have a way with words...

17) From: Brian Kamnetz
Floyd,
I agree that trying to figure out where I am in the roast, especially in the
nether regions between first and second, is very difficult. I may have more
difficulty than many on this list because I am technology challenged. I
think you may be ahead of me in technical terms, based on you knowing what
an "agtronometer" is.
I use HG/DB, and my biggest jump forward in roasting came when I got a very
powerful heat gun that allows me to more easily vary how fast I am heating
the greens. That was a big improvement over unmodded popper and low-output
heat gun, where I mostly was forced to apply max heat and hope for the best.
Another improvement, perhaps oddly enough, was when I printed out a
"schedule" attributed to Jim Schulman relating elapsed time targets with
various roasting stages. That was only half a dozen or so roasts ago, and I
think my roasts have improved.
I am on my way to the next step forward, I hope. A few days ago I noticed a
reduced-price digital thermometer on the SM sale page (nothing wrong
functionally, case zipper is broken) and ordered that. (I also suffered a
lapse in discipline and succumbed to my longing for a Nissan Leak-Proof
BackPack Bottle, Model JMW-500.) The digital thermometer should arrive here
next week. I think I may take it and my roasting bowl-and-sieve over to the
local university physics department or maybe one of the engineering
departments and see if I can find someone to show me how to hook it up in a
way that is both effective and safe for the probe. That should make it much
easier to estimate the temp of the beans during the various roast stages,
and I may take yet another step forward.
Brian
On 4/20/07, Floyd Lozano  wrote:
<Snip>

18) From: Floyd Lozano
I made that word up.  I make a lot of words up!  If one exists it's purely
by coincidende, or I have superpowers.
-F
On 4/21/07, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
<Snip>

19) From: Brian Kamnetz
On 4/21/07, Floyd Lozano  wrote:
<Snip>
Floyd,
Well, I bit on the made-up word. Can't think of a better way to illustrate
my point of me being technically challenged!
Brian

20) From: miKe mcKoffee
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Agtronometer:http://www.agtron.net/E30_TP.html 
Ok so they actually call it a Agtron Process Analyzer, but agree
"agtronometer" sounds right and is shorter besides:-)
 
Pacific Northwest Gathering Vhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGV.htmKona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/ 
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Floyd Lozano
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:59 AM
I made that word up.  I make a lot of words up!  If one exists it's purely
by coincidende, or I have superpowers.
-F
On 4/21/07, Brian Kamnetz  wrote: 
Floyd,
I agree that trying to figure out where I am in the roast, especially in the
nether regions between first and second, is very difficult. I may have more
difficulty than many on this list because I am technology challenged. I
think you may be ahead of me in technical terms, based on you knowing what
an "agtronometer" is. 

21) From: Ross
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Floyd,
You could be like me keep it simple and limit your roast level =
vocabulary to mistakes, C, C+, FC, FC+ and mistakes.  I call anything =
that is sour a mistake, in the range from start of first crack to the =
definite end of first crack-City, anything after first crack ends and =
before my FC definition-C+, anything within 5 to 10 maybe 15 seconds =
before or after second crack-Full city, anything more than 10-15 seconds =
into 2nd crack-FC+ or a mistake depending on how it tastes.  That makes =
FC a twenty to thirty second window I try to hit.  
Ross

22) From: Eddie Dove
I don't do the technical stuff either.  I have something to tell me
temperature and elapsed time, that's it.  Those simply provide me with
references and other than that, I don't want anything else between me
and the coffee.  The cracks are major reference points, but the aroma
is everything to me for gauging the roast.
Eddie
On 4/21/07, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
<Snip>

23) From: Brian Kamnetz
I don't know why, but I do not notice much in the ways of smell during the
roast. Maybe that is related to declining taste; for example, beer needs to
have really strong flavor (porter, IPA, etc) or I can hardly taste it.
Outside of smell, Time and Temperature do seem to be the main data to attend
to during a roast. I'm able now to track time, of course. And of course I
know when I am in first crack and when I'm in second crack. I'm looking
forward to the arrival (and installation) of my new digital thermometer, so
that I can track temperature increases as well as time on the way to first
crack, and to be able to tell with a bit more accuracy where the roast is at
any given time between first and second crack.
Brian
On 4/21/07, Eddie Dove  wrote:
<Snip>

24) From: Justin Marquez
If the roast turns out "sour" because it was under-roasted, roast it again.
Sometimes that'll cure a short roasted bean. Sometimes not, but assuming you
were going to toss the sour roasted anyways, what's lost by trying?
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
On 4/21/07, Ross  wrote:
<Snip>

25) From: Ross
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Justin,
That's a good idea.  Sour roasts were problem for me before I tamed my =
IRoast with a Variac, it was so hot and fast it would run right through =
1st before it roasted the middle of the bean.  I'm happy to say I =
haven't had a sour roast since I tamed the beast.  Now I tend to error =
on the other end trying to stretch 2nd too far, live and learn.
Ross


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