HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Real French Roast (15 msgs / 342 lines)
1) From: Ross
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Today my work has me in Paris.  I had some real French roast for =
breakfast, many times it is overly strong and bitter but the hotel got =
it right this morning.  I have to admit it was not bad at all. The =
French obviously brew their coffee much stronger than we tend to and =
many times it is bitter, like a too hot espresso extraction, today it =
was not bitter and I drank a whole pot black.  I am still looking =
forward to my Misty Valley that is in my bag that Air France lost, =
hopefully I'll have it this afternoon.
Regards,
Ross

2) From: Lynne Biziewski
Oh - Paris - I envy you! Never visited (all my traveling took place B.K. for
me - Before Kids - and when I did, I never did reach France), always dreamed
of a trip to France, Italy...
Maybe someday...
In this blog , the author writes about the bad
quality of coffee in Paris. I must admit, I have that image in my head that
every little cafe in Paris would serve superior coffee!
I found another blog that talks about Paris' bad
coffee.
This author says the best cup s/he ever had was at a Cuban cafe (didn't
divulge the name, however). Hey, I just noticed they mentioned Sweet
Maria's! Maybe the author belongs to this list.
Au revoir - hoping you find your Misty so the lack of good brew doesn't
interfere w/your enjoyment of Paris!
Lynne
(who is just now enjoying her own cup of Misty..mmm...)
On 5/2/07, Ross  wrote:
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-- 
"Who knows where inspiration comes from. Perhaps it arises from desperation.
Perhaps it comes from the flukes of the universe, the kindness of the
muses."
Amy Tan

3) From: Sandy Andina
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I have had dreadful coffee in Paris, but also some wonderful stuff.  
The Ambassador Concorde served twin pots of steamed milk and freshly  
brewed dark roast coffee (no chicory), which one is supposed to pour  
simultaneously with both hands into the waiting cup.  Some sidewalk  
cafes served decent Lavazza espresso when I was last there in 1999.   
And the rest stop plazas along the Autoroute between Paris and  
Bordeaux had big 3-group Rancilios, IIRC.
On May 2, 2007, at 7:23 AM, Lynne Biziewski wrote:
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Sandy Andina
www.sandyandina.com
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
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I have had dreadful coffee in =
Paris, but also some wonderful stuff. The Ambassador Concorde served =
twin pots of steamed milk and freshly brewed dark roast coffee (no =
chicory), which one is supposed to pour simultaneously with both hands =
into the waiting cup.  Some sidewalk cafes served decent Lavazza =
espresso when I was last there in 1999.  And the rest stop plazas =
along the Autoroute between Paris and Bordeaux had big 3-group =
Rancilios, IIRC.
On May 2, 2007, at 7:23 AM, Lynne =
Biziewski wrote:
Oh - Paris - I envy you! Never visited (all my traveling = took place B.K. for me - Before Kids - and when I did, I never did reach = France), always dreamed of a trip to France, Italy... Maybe = someday... In this blog, = the author writes about the bad quality of coffee in Paris. I must = admit, I have that image in my head that every little cafe in Paris = would serve superior coffee! I found another blog that talks = about Paris' bad coffee.  = This author says the best cup s/he ever had was at a Cuban cafe (didn't = divulge the name, however). Hey, I just noticed they mentioned Sweet = Maria's! Maybe the author belongs to this list. Au revoir - = hoping you find your Misty so the lack of good brew doesn't interfere = w/your enjoyment of Paris! Lynne (who is just now enjoying = her own cup of Misty..mmm...) On 5/2/07, Ross = <rdhenne> = wrote: Today my work has me in Paris.  I had some real French = roast for breakfast, many times it is overly strong and bitter but the = hotel got it right this morning.  I have to admit it was not bad at = all. The French obviously brew their coffee much stronger than we = tend to and many times it is bitter, like a too hot espresso extraction, = today it was not bitter and I drank a whole pot black.  I am still = looking forward to my Misty Valley that is in my bag that Air France = lost, hopefully I'll have it this afternoon. Regards, Ross
-- "Who knows where inspiration comes from. = Perhaps it arises from desperation. Perhaps it comes from the flukes of = the universe, the kindness of the muses." Amy = Tan Sandy = Andinawww.sandyandina.comwww.myspace.com/sandyandina=

= = --Apple-Mail-41-113530553--

4) From: Lynne Biziewski
Sigh... longing for Paris!
Lynne
On 5/2/07, Sandy Andina  wrote:
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5) From: Floyd Lozano
The birthplace of espresso, if wikipedia can be believed!
*Espresso* or *caffè espresso* is a concentrated
coffeebeverage brewed by forcing
very hot, but not boiling, water under high
pressure  through coffee that has
been ground to a consistency that is between extremely fine and powder.
Invented by Edward Loysel de Santais in 1843, Santais's machine impressed
visitors to the Paris Exposition of 1855 by producing "two thousand cups of
coffee an hour." Santais's machine brewed coffee a pot at a time, however,
and used steam pressure, though not to force the brewing water directly
through the coffee. Instead, it raised the water to a considerable height
above the coffee. From there it descended through an elaborate system of
tubes to the coffee bed. The weight of the hot water, not the trapped steam=
,
applied the brewing pressure.
On 5/2/07, Lynne Biziewski  wrote:
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 dark
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 with
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azza
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 the
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6) From: Leo Zick
if its true, it wouldnt have to be THAT tall. i estimate 1 meter based on
todays pressure standards. of course, pressure will significantly drop as
the water level decreases.
On 5/2/07, Floyd Lozano  wrote:
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edia.org/wiki/Coffee>beverage brewed by forcing very hot, but not boiling, =
water under high
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of
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,
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am,
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brewed
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neously
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ent
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azas
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ios,
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7) From: Angelo
Hey, youse injunear guys!
How tall would that column of water have to be to 
produce the 9 bars needed. It sounds like a fancy steam toy to me...
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 wrote:
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8) From: Michael Dhabolt
 On 5/2/07, Angelo  wrote:
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310 feet plus or minus a bit, mineral content etc. starts to make a
difference at that depth (er...ah...height).
Mike (just plain)
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9) From: Tom Ulmer
This is a multipart message in MIME format.
-9' I believe.
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Michael Dhabolt
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:28 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Real French Roast
On 5/2/07, Angelo  wrote: 
How tall would that column of water have to be to
produce the 9 bars needed. It sounds like a fancy steam toy to me... 
310 feet plus or minus a bit, mineral content etc. starts to make a
difference at that depth (er...ah...height).
Mike (just plain)

10) From: Leo Zick
coulda swore i replied to this.
man everyone should be using gmail.
3'-9' depends on diameter of the column. also, water level has to remain
consistent for pressure to stay steady.
On 5/2/07, Tom Ulmer  wrote:
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11) From: raymanowen
Oh, Here!
I've done all the work, all you have to do is read.
The diameter of the column would have No Effect, and it could be routed like
a pretzel.
   - 9bar X 14.7 psi/bar = *132.3psi*
From memory, the 100" wc wind pressure on some loud ranks in a certain pipe
organ = ~4psi. Frightening if you weren't expecting the ear splitting sound.
 A 100" wc wind pressure is closer to 3.6psi from memory, so it's
(132.3/3.6)100/12
= *306ft* wc for 9bar
A little searching for published equalities yields:
1psi'.68"WC,
1psi'.76"WC,
10psi#.1ftWC,
1psi = 2.31ftWC'.72"WC
Averaging these numbers yields
83.16/3= 27.72"WC=1psi, 132.3psiX 27.72"/psi = 3667.356"/12= *305.6ftWC*
No complaints if you had a 300ft water tower at the mp of the tank, half
full.
Each bar = 305.6'/9=*34ftWC*.
Now, *That* would be a Landmark Espresso Machine- it would be on the
Jeppeson maps!
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
People should think things out fresh and not just accept conventional terms
and the conventional way of doing things. - -R. Buckminster Fuller

12) From: Leo Zick
i cant recall the formulas, but misters darcy and weisbach (sp) say
differently.  pressure loss in a pipe is related to length, fluid density,
and hydraulic diameter. the last i believe is to calc reynolds number.  not
sure if this is the correct formula to use, since it may be related to
moving fluids.
then again, water column pressure = rho*G*h. no diameter there. bah, no
wonder i suck at engineering :p
On 5/2/07, raymanowen  wrote:
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13) From: Angelo
So, according to these calculations, This French gentleman had 306ft 
of tubing to get the 9bars of pressure and, if he had less, then it 
was not an espresso machine, as defined by present day standards. I 
was under the impression that it was Mr. Gaggia who invented the 
first "true" espresso machine....
A.
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14) From: Leo Zick
LOLOL
On 5/3/07, Angelo  wrote:
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15) From: miKe mcKoffee
True enough, it was not modern day standards espresso nor made any claims to
9bar pressure extraction but rather the beginning of brewing coffee rapdily
under pressure, early pre-modern day espresso method of extraction. The
first to brew under steam pressure around 1.5 to 2bar was in 1901 invented
by Luigi Bezzera.
Here's a site with a diagram of the orginal Bezzera machine:http://lrs.ed.uiuc.edu/students/tchen3/esphistory.htmlAgree Gaggia ushered in the modern age of espresso in 1948.
Pacific Northwest Gathering Vhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGV.htmKona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
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