I will be out of the office starting 11/26/2002 and will not return until 12/02/2002. I will respond to your message when I return. homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast
While I understand (more or less within my limited capabilities to understand) George's philosophy of the true terrior of the bean for me it would be sad if his vision evey came to full fruition. For instance I love a great wet processed Yirgacheffe. If I understand correctly this would be the more true state of the bean to George. Yet I also love dry processed Yirgacheffe which if I understand correctly is not within George's terrior philosophy. To me they are different expressions of the bean. I wish I could have gotten both DP & WP of the same pickings of Ididio Misty Valley for direct differing enjoyment comparison. An analogy might be a prime cut of beef. Some chef's believe anything beyond a touch of salt masks the true essence of the steak. Not even wood smoke grilling! But to me whether lightly seasoned versus heavily rubbed with different seasonings or a london broil or terriyaki style marinade etc. are simply different interpretations of the steak. And usually not if but which wood to use smoke grilling another layer of flavor interpretation. Pacific Northwest Gathering Vhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGV.htmKona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before. Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/ From: homeroast-admin [mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Floyd Lozano Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 4:00 PM well there's many positions to take, and you are on different sides of the issue. he is pursuing purity of the origin, removing all defect introduction from the process. you are looking at existing process, likely trying to help improve it where you can, but taking the stuff out there *today* and finding the best of it that you can for us. both laudable goals, but tell you what, i like what you find, and i'm an immediate gratification kind of guy - you keep finding the gems. his cry wolf position on the future of coffee is scary because it could happen, though, and given the average consumer position (give me 'good enough' for 'cheap enough' and they are sold) it doesn't bode well for the small farmer (they will grow chat, not coffee, if they don't get paid) -F On 5/7/07, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee wrote: i like the george howell article as far as it lays out george's take on this unattainable purity instilled into green coffee on the tree, and a notion of translating that directly into the cup. of course, there is no such thing as transparency in any system, and to say so is actually the most ideological position to take -- to say "i see the world as it really is" and such. the same is true in this case, i think. we all respect george, we even respect that he can be a difficult person. in other respect the article takes as fact many highly subjective statements, things that can easily be called into question with further tests and cupping with a variety of coffees. that's the trick here; we are dealing with the most heterogenous of materials, with many sujective referece points to take into - it's easy to be reductive in your arguements for the sake of clarity, and take this as being progress, but i feel it isnt. anyway, i am not sure anyone cares to hear my .02 on this, but it is a nice article and deserves some response.
My capabilities of understanding must be even more limited. My interpretation of terroir would not include both dry and wet processed together. Furthermore, while I am certain that George possesses a keen sense of most things coffee, the constant references to "clean" as it relates to George's Terroir is what sets it apart in a marketing sense. I am quite partial to dry processed coffee in general and can't imagine anyone offering an opinion that the processing method, as a blanket process, somehow makes an exceptional coffee something less.
No, we understand the same: DP doesn't exist in George's terrior philosophy. Which is why I said would feel sad "if" the vision came to full fruition, i.e. no more DP coffees! I do happen to fully agree with George on the importance of stabilizing the green as soon after processing to greens as possible, regardless the processing method. Hence been vac sealing my greens for 6 years and trying to figure out vac freezer storage scenario/space:-) Pacific Northwest Gathering Vhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGV.htmKona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before. Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/ <Snip> <Snip>
how can that make sense with traditionally DP coffees like Brazil, Yemen, and Harrar? mcKona wrote: <Snip>
I agree, and i think jim's article is very nice the way he contrasts it at the end, although I am not sure why this is called tim castle's or don shoenholdt's coffee philosophy. Anyway, I too appreciate george's assertions and i think they are most useful to help other people define their vision of coffee, rather than as a practicable method. I mean, mike is right, what if this really became the dominant understanding among all facets of coffee; we would lose the coffee culture from all these regions that has resulted in a much, much wider range of cup flavors that george's practice allows. i rarely, perhaps never use the term terroir because if find it ill-fit for coffee, and i don't like importing wine terms (it seems a shameful to try to "validate" coffee by using upscale wine terms that don't really translate well). Like the beef analogy, we want diversity if flavor, not a rigidly and narrowly defined range of tastes. Then again, I don't think george wants to control the world's supply of coffee, or how it is processed. he is just doing what he thinks is right for his business, and i appreciate that he has a comprehensible approach to coffee. The fact is, large segments of the japanese specialty market have this approach too. They are very picky about the appearance of green coffee (they actually prefer screen dry for naturals too, because it is off the ground, which is more cultural taboo than anything specific about the coffee). You also find a lot of mild, clean, sweet coffee among this group of buyers, perhaps a touch of citrus, a touch of chocolate, but rather homogenous and predictable. If that truly is coffee quality, and the price you have to pay for it is palate boredom, then i can't go along with that at all. -tom <Snip> -- "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters" Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting - Tom & Maria http://www.sweetmarias.com Thompson Owen george_at_sweetmarias.com Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom_at_sweetmarias.com