HomeRoast Digest


Topic: George article - terrior of coffee (6 msgs / 336 lines)
1) From: DeCambre.Peter
I will be out of the office starting  11/26/2002 and will not return
until 12/02/2002.
I will respond to your message when I return.
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

2) From: miKe mcKoffee
While I understand (more or less within my limited capabilities to
understand) George's philosophy of the true terrior of the bean for me it
would be sad if his vision evey came to full fruition. For instance I love a
great wet processed Yirgacheffe. If I understand correctly this would be the
more true state of the bean to George. Yet I also love dry processed
Yirgacheffe which if I understand correctly is not within George's terrior
philosophy. To me they are different expressions of the bean. I wish I could
have gotten both DP & WP of the same pickings of Ididio Misty Valley for
direct differing enjoyment comparison. 
An analogy might be a prime cut of beef. Some chef's believe anything beyond
a touch of salt masks the true essence of the steak. Not even wood smoke
grilling! But to me whether lightly seasoned versus heavily rubbed with
different seasonings or a london broil or terriyaki style marinade etc. are
simply different interpretations of the steak. And usually not if but which
wood to use smoke grilling another layer of flavor interpretation.
Pacific Northwest Gathering Vhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGV.htmKona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/	From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Floyd Lozano
	Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 4:00 PM
	
	well there's many positions to take, and you are on different sides
of the issue.  he is pursuing purity of the origin, removing all defect
introduction from the process.  you are looking at existing process, likely
trying to help improve it where you can, but taking the stuff out there
*today* and finding the best of it that you can for us.  both laudable
goals, but tell you what, i like what you find, and i'm an immediate
gratification kind of guy - you keep finding the gems.  his cry wolf
position on the future of coffee is scary because it could happen, though,
and given the average consumer position (give me 'good enough' for 'cheap
enough' and they are sold) it doesn't bode well for the small farmer (they
will grow chat, not coffee, if they don't get paid) 
	-F
	
	On 5/7/07, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
 wrote: 
		i like the george howell article as far as it lays out
george's take
		on this unattainable purity instilled into green coffee on
the tree,
		and a notion of translating that directly into the cup. of
course,
		there is no such thing as transparency in any system, and to
say so
		is actually the most ideological position to take -- to say
"i see
		the world as it really is" and such. the same is true in
this case, i
		think. we all respect george, we even respect that he can be
a
		difficult person. in other respect the article takes as fact
many
		highly subjective  statements, things that can easily be
called into
		question with further tests and cupping with a variety of
coffees. 
		that's the trick here; we are dealing with the most
heterogenous of
		materials, with many sujective referece points to take into
- it's
		easy to be reductive in your arguements for the sake of
clarity, and 
		take this as being progress, but i feel it isnt. anyway, i
am not
		sure anyone cares to hear my .02 on this, but it is a nice
article
		and deserves some response.

3) From: Tom Ulmer
My capabilities of understanding must be even more limited. My
interpretation of terroir would not include both dry and wet processed
together. 
Furthermore, while I am certain that George possesses a keen sense of most
things coffee, the constant references to "clean" as it relates to George's
Terroir is what sets it apart in a marketing sense. I am quite partial to
dry processed coffee in general and can't imagine anyone offering an opinion
that the processing method, as a blanket process, somehow makes an
exceptional coffee something less.

4) From: miKe mcKoffee
No, we understand the same: DP doesn't exist in George's terrior philosophy.
Which is why I said would feel sad "if" the vision came to full fruition,
i.e. no more DP coffees! 
I do happen to fully agree with George on the importance of stabilizing the
green as soon after processing to greens as possible, regardless the
processing method. Hence been vac sealing my greens for 6 years and trying
to figure out vac freezer storage scenario/space:-)
Pacific Northwest Gathering Vhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGV.htmKona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
<Snip>
<Snip>

5) From: stereoplegic
how can that make sense with traditionally DP coffees like Brazil, 
Yemen, and Harrar?
mcKona wrote:
<Snip>

6) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
I agree, and i think jim's article is very nice the way he contrasts 
it at the end, although I am not sure why this is called tim castle's 
or don shoenholdt's coffee philosophy. Anyway, I too appreciate 
george's assertions and i think they are most useful to help other 
people define their vision of coffee, rather than as a practicable 
method. I mean, mike is right, what if this really became the 
dominant understanding among all facets of coffee; we would lose the 
coffee culture from all these regions that has resulted in a much, 
much wider range of cup flavors that george's practice allows. i 
rarely, perhaps never use the term terroir because if find it ill-fit 
for coffee, and  i don't like importing wine terms (it seems a 
shameful to try to "validate" coffee by using upscale wine terms that 
don't really translate well). Like the beef analogy, we want 
diversity if flavor, not a rigidly and narrowly defined range of 
tastes. Then again, I don't think george wants to control the world's 
supply of coffee, or how it is processed. he is just doing what he 
thinks is right for his business, and i appreciate that he has a 
comprehensible approach to coffee. The fact is, large segments of the 
japanese specialty market have this approach too. They are very picky 
about the appearance of green coffee (they actually prefer screen dry 
for naturals too, because it is off the ground, which is more 
cultural taboo than anything specific about the coffee). You also 
find a lot of mild, clean, sweet coffee among this group of buyers, 
perhaps a touch of citrus, a touch of chocolate, but rather 
homogenous and predictable. If that truly is coffee quality, and the 
price you have to pay for it is palate boredom, then i can't go along 
with that at all. -tom
<Snip>
--
                   "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
            Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting  -  Tom & Maria
                      http://www.sweetmarias.com                Thompson Owen george_at_sweetmarias.com
     Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
             phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom_at_sweetmarias.com


HomeRoast Digest