I know that resting of roasted beans is an important component of having the best flavor in the cup. However, I'm not sure what is important in the rest: is it merely time, or should it include access to air? Does the presence of oxygen allow the beans to "cure" somewhat for best flavor, or is it merely time that improves the flavor? I usually keep my beans in an airtight container even after roasting, but this seems to slow the "curing" that should occur. Recently I've been keeping them open overnight, and this seems to speed up the cure. Any thoughts on this? Thanks. --dv
Air is generally a bad thing, you don't want them to sit in air because they stale quicker that way or go rancid or whatever will happen to them. For the first night after roasting, you will want them in a closed (but not sealed) container, that will let the co2 gas that is made while they begin resting, vent off, but keeps the air out. After the first day or so, then you can seal them up. Some folks vac seal them, or mason jar them or just plain sealable container them. I did a little test about a year ago trying various methods of keeping beans and overall, vac kept them the longest, followed by a sealed container of some sorts, lastly a zip lock baggie was worse as far as aging. Aaron
I've had much success using Sweet Maria's gold foil valve bags. They seal out the air and discharge the carbon dioxide keeping the roasted beans fresh for quite awhile, in some cases for well over 1 week. Just allow the roast to cool by whatever method you choose, I like to give a lite spray of purified water and toss in 2 colanders until cool then rest for about 1 hour then seal in the foil bags. Hope this helps, Jerry ************************************** See what's free athttp://www.aol.com.
dv: gotta be darth vador right? you actually answered your own question. get the co2 out, now, out bad air but then it is a matter of taste. rest actually means, by some, letting dem beans de-gass, out old co2, rsst to others is lay on the cabana in a nice chair and wait until the beans smell ok. ginny lots of luck darth, some never rest the beans, they simply dump them into their hopper and try them day after day until they are gone. ---- Donald Varona wrote: <Snip>
<Snip> please see AL GORE, ginny ---- Aaron wrote: <Snip>
"Hot Air" is a bad thing...?? Safe Journeys and Sweet Music Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX) On 5/28/07, pchforever wrote: <Snip>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Looks like it's time to give this thread a rest before someone takes the = bait Ginny put out, come on Ginny, it may be a total joke but think = about it, you know better, please, we are all better off if nobody does = this kind of thing. There are a lot of hot heads out there from all = sides of every political issue, I don't want to hear from them, while = I'm trying to learn about coffee. Thanks, Ross
This is a multipart message in MIME format. Then I suggest you don't give that dog anything to hunt, especially since I know Gin's a semi-blue dog democrat ( except for that NORML thing). Of course, I don't believe there's been a finer embodiment of the Democratic doctrine since Anne Richards kicked some good old boy ass while wearing high heels. From: homeroast-admin [mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Ross Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 6:45 PM To: homeroast Subject: Re: +rest question Looks like it's time to give this thread a rest before someone takes the bait Ginny put out, come on Ginny, it may be a total joke but think about it, you know better, please, we are all better off if nobody does this kind of thing. There are a lot of hot heads out there from all sides of every political issue, I don't want to hear from them, while I'm trying to learn about coffee. Thanks, Ross
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hi Tom, I was asking in general for people not to let the dogs out. I just = want to learn how not to burn my coffee roasts Ross
Donald, This question has been discussed extensively, without a great deal of consensus regarding length of rest that is helpful or necessary. The greatest consensus does seem to tend, if I understood correctly, toward using coffee within 10 or so days of being roasted. Some maintain that within that timespan there is little need to protect roasted coffee from air. Also, some believe that sealing beans too soon after a roast can blunt flavors. A while back Ray O mentioned, if I understood correctly, storing beans in glass containers and "dipping" them out, so that the CO2 does not escape. I have been doing that with half of each roast, and storing the other half in glass jars that are loosely covered for about a day, then sealed (but not vac) glass jars, and I can't tell the difference with most varieties, and have not noticed any trends. On rest in general, bottom line as I understand it is that most (not all) people agree that some rest is beneficial to many, even most, varieties, and that it is best to use up roasted coffee within 10 days, give or take 2-3 days. Brian On 5/28/07, Donald Varona wrote: <Snip>
Thank you Ross - what coffee did you drink today? I had a wonderful Misty Valley - I'm almost at the end of mine, and I am so grateful that someone (sorry, I forgot who!) posted their profile - even though I roast stove top, the explanation was good enough for me to follow. It has been SO good - and I only left it for last because it wasn't all that great whenI roasted it before. Now I KNOW it was me! Lynne On 5/28/07, Ross wrote: <Snip> -- "In a world of conflict, the truth must survive." Kevin Sites, 9/16/2005 blog
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Brian, I have been putting my fresh roast in Jars and periodically giving the = lid a loose twist to allow air to escape. I don't have any evidence to = suggest that this is a good practice. I'm just lazy and waiting for = evidence. Thank you for yours. Ross
Ross you're begging for the dogs to come out... So maybe I'll try both sides... The Conservative lets the beans do their own resting. It's up to the beans to rest appropriately - the marketplace will decide which amount of rest is best, and will vote with their money. And of course some people will want the latest newest beans, paying a premium and getting beans before their time. Others will wait for the beans to get old, and will buy them at a discount. They will boast of the money they are saving and the fact that they outdid the professional es in both price and quality. Then of course there are some who know the leaders, and they go to the same country clubs. These will get the beans just right, and get a good insiders deal on them. Others will feel this is totally inappropriate, and will protest... The more Liberal will recognize that everyone can do a little better. Thos= e who wait too long, and don't really get their value will benefit by a few more controls, ensuring the beans get out there fresher. These folks will protest of too much oversight and governance, but they will actually have a much better cup than that old swill they used to get. The ones who bought too early will benefit from a little quality enforcement, and will be surprised to see the controls work in their favor. The insiders will find they have to buy at the same rate as everyone else. The roasters will find they make a little less because someone has to pay for the care and oversight. They of course will raise prices to cover their costs, and everyone will dig a little deeper. The laissez faire people like me just roast a couple pounds, kind of how we like it. We will cool it, and then throw it into a big Mason Jar. The first day we'll make two pots... The second day, we'll make two pots. The third day, we'll make two pots, and comment about what a nice coffee this is. The fourth day we'll make two pots. Remarkable, rested four days, and yummy. The fifth day, we'll make two pots. Yes, a nice cup. The sixth da= y we'll make a pot and a half. And doggone it, time to quickly roast again - I'm OUT.... OK, well Ross, hope that dispels all the political worries, and helps you with a bit of roasting and resting... and Ginny didn't even launch on that one! Brett On 5/28/07, Ross wrote: <Snip> e <Snip> igh <Snip> nd <Snip> n <Snip> -- Cheers, Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hi Lynne, I too have some aged Misty Valley that is still very good, had it this = morning, made a few pots with that white ceramic pourover pot of SM's, = exquisite. drinking wine now. Yes, we can be happy when we with our = good roasting records and excellent turns of the burners hit the sweet = spot but we only have ourselves to blame when it is not good. I have = had a bad week as far as coffee roasting goes because I tried some new = things with my RK drum and basiclly burned or baked a lot of coffee. = Lots of relatives were here for graduation week and I had to roast fresh = and serve it with no rest because it was better than my stock of = baked/burned beans from a week ago. At least I was not in such despair = that I ran to the super market! I fell back on the Baize which tastes = great right out of the roaster. I survived, they liked it and drank it = in quanity. Only to have to explain to my wife what to do with all = that other coffee I wasn't using. I told her it was an age test, very = important part of the art. Ross
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Ha! And it is an art, isn't it? Company - I have a hard time with my dogs demanding my attention (although removing the fire alarm has helped keep my littlest dog from demanding my attention while roasting!) And there is the dilemma - I would want to share my coffee with relatives - but the disruption would certainly ruin my roasts, too. Glad you didn't have to resort to grocery stuff. Almost all my worst has been better than all the coffee I've had out. (Except for one that I ruined beyond recognition when my Emma was rushed to the emergency animal hospital & we almost lost her). That just showed how much of an art roasting really is... Lynne On 5/28/07, Ross wrote: <Snip> -- "In a world of conflict, the truth must survive." Kevin Sites, 9/16/2005 blog
Ross: It was a total joke, I am watching Book TV and he is speaking, had too. air and all. no bait. ginny ---- Ross wrote: <Snip>
I understand that O2 is "generally" a bad thing. I've read everyone's responses and my question still remains. Maybe I should be more precise in my question. I want to know if anyone has compared "resting" (meaning one or two days after roast), in-air versus in sealed containers, and seen how the different types of resting affect the flavor. If I rest them in-air, the "ripening" seems to happen faster, meaning that perhaps the oxygen is causing the flavor changes that we associate with a rest. I'm asking if anyone has actually tested this themselves. It's easy to assume that since O2 is bad in some ways that it must always be bad-- but who has experimented here? Science often comes from breaking away from assumptions. In no way is my coffee in danger of going stale. My batches are small, and I use it far too quickly for even a two-day exposure to air to really affect anything. --dv Aaron wrote: <Snip>
I don't have any experimental data, just some anecdotal findings from my own use. I always kept my roast jars open for the first 12 hours or so before sealing. Based on reading, listening to others, and intuition, I now leave them partially open for 3 or 4 days. If I see oil on the beans I will start sealing from that point onward, otherwise continuing to leave them open. It's rare that I have beans longer than 7 days so I can't speak for long term effects. Could I taste the difference between sealing and not in a blind tasting? I think so but just haven't bothered to try it. I'm happy with the idea that this way is better. On 5/29/07, Donald Varona wrote: <Snip> -- MichaelB
Actually, sitting in the open air the oils don't get that rancid smell or taste, but open air lets all the volatile aromas and flavors escape over time.