HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Cleancaf > RE: +What the puck??? (13 msgs / 248 lines)
1) From: miKe mcKoffee
If Cleancaf was "just" citric acid it would "just be a descaler" and not a
"cleaner and descaler" which in fact it is. CLEANER AND DESCALER. BTW, has
anyone ever used citric acid to descale and created foam, as in the bubbly
stuff detergent creates, as in what happens using Cleancaf, but doesn't
happen using either straight citric acid or Urnex Dezcal "descaler".
Geeze... I feel like a broken record...
The purpose of a descaler is to break down mineral deposits. The purpose of
a cleaner, is gee to clean, as in this case remove coffee oils etc. That
said I cannot say to a certainty a straight descaler would not be an
effective cleaner. But I highly suspect espresso machines aren't frequently
routinely backflushed with descaler but rather detergent for a reason. Seems
there are way too many professionals operating on a shoestring budget to
spend money on backflush detergent if simply citric acid would do as well.
Referring to high quality minded establishments who care about clean
equipment of course.
Next time I detergent backflush (which is every weekend at home, daily at
the cafe) maybe I'll descaler backflush first and then see what detergent
backflush removes that descaler did not... 
Pacific Northwest Gathering Vhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGV.htmKona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
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2) From: Derek Bradford
I stand corrected.  Thanks.  Sorry for the record skipping...
On 5/30/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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-- 
Every path but your own is the path of fate.  --Thoreau

3) From: raymanowen
Foaming detergent. Get a refund. -ro

4) From: Ed Needham
I use a product called ESP, which is trisodium phosphate, or TSP and a few 
other ingredients. It works on machines with a three way valve and can be 
backflushed.  CleanCaf may have other stuff in it, I'm not sure, but it is 
basically a citric acid solution.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

5) From: miKe mcKoffee
BTW, don't take any curmudgeonly seeming posts personal, I'm tired and in
curmudgeon mode:-) That said, earlier just this evening I'd already posted
that Cleancaf was a cleaner and descaler and included a link to Urnex site.
I just wonder if people actually read what they read sometimes...
And you are undoubtedly correct recalling reading some saying Cleancaf is
simply citric acid out of uninformed assumptive ignorance.
Pacific Northwest Gathering Vhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGV.htmKona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
<Snip>

6) From: miKe mcKoffee
Ed, have you actually used and compared Cleancaf to straight citric acid and
see what happens with each? I have. Cleancaf foams (as does backflush
detergent like Cafiza or Purocaf), citric acid does not. Citric acid may
well be the descaling agent in Cleancaf, but not the cleaning agent.
Pacific Northwest Gathering Vhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGV.htmKona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
<Snip>

7) From: Derek Bradford
Curmudgeonness noted, but not taken to heart.  I've been feeling that
way myself for the past few weeks.  I am guilty of not reading
closely; I skimmed and thought there was a point to my comment.  UAI
is a scourge, and I sometimes suffer too.  I don't actually use these
products; I've used citric acid on my Gaggia, but only when it
arrived.  Otherwise, I don't have any scale (bottled water), and
there's not much backflushing to be done on a Europiccola.  I don't
even use the Gaggia.  (Anyone want one?  It's red...)
--Derek
On 5/30/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Every path but your own is the path of fate.  --Thoreau

8) From: Leo Zick
based on the properties of it, it doesnt seem like citric acid.  wrong
smell, wrong grain size, etc.
it foams, citric acid is anti-foaming i think.  it could have bicarbonate in
it though so that doesnt mean much. may have tsp as well. who knows.  there
is also something in it that makes it toxic.
im not up to tasting it. anyone want to let me know? ;)
On 5/30/07, Ed Needham  wrote:
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9) From: Aaron
If yer givin away a gaggia ill take it.
 Aaron
and welcome to the curmudgeon club, now shut the hell up and get lost
(Note to the overly sensitive... the above comment was a joke.... it's a 
curmudgeon thing, you wouldn't understand it)

10) From: Brent - SC/TO Roasting
From Urnex's website, Cleancaf is a cleaner and descaler and is OMRI rated
as being organic:
Cleancaf(r) Brand Cleaner and Descaler is an essential component to
maintaining great tasting coffee at home.  Cleancaf(r) is designed to remove
flavor-tainting stale coffee oil residue from home machines.  Its dual
action formula also prevents the accumulation of scale deposits which are
responsible for slow brew times and machine malfunctions.  Portion packaged
for easy use, Cleancaf(r) also contains a blue-dye which helps to insure
proper rinsing.
They do not list ingredients/chemicals as they consider it a trade secret.
Folks can request the MSDS, if they like, per the Urnex faq:http://www.urnex.com/faq.htm-- 
Brent
My coffee is better than it tastes

11) From: Ed Needham
I don't have a clue what other ingredients they add to cleancaf to make it 
their product.  I just noted in my original post that it was a citric acid 
product.  I'm not an expert on this, but I did use it and the Mr. Coffee 
product side by side to soak the scale out of a Bunn boiler and the Mr. 
Coffee, with the sulfamic acid (and whatever else they add to it to make it 
their product) kicked the snot out of CleanCaf.  And no, I have not compared 
Cleancaf to straight citric acid.
I didn't use the ESP product on the Bunn boiler since I figured it was 
designed more for coffee oil cleaning than scale.
I'm not in curmudgeon mode, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

12) From: Ed Needham
There are numerous retail references on the web saying it is citric based + 
detergent.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

13) From: Leo Zick
i was thinking of cafiza. my mistake.
On 5/30/07, Ed Needham  wrote:
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