HomeRoast Digest


Topic: are these defects? (28 msgs / 687 lines)
1) From: Beth Henkels
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Good morning everyone,
 
I am currently roasting Kenya AA auction lot 764-Ndaroini Nyeri.  I have
noticed a lot of what I think are defects.  They appear as hollow beans.
Imagine a little canoe looking bean after roasting.  Are these defects?  =
I
have never noticed anything like this before in any of my other roasts, =
but
these are so noticeable and numerous.  I’m only through about a ½ =
lb. and
I’ve already thrown out at least 50 beans.  
 
Also, there seems to be quite a bit of chaff left on these (more so than
other beans I’ve roasted).  I remove as much as I can, but there is =
still
quite a bit stuck to the beans.  Will this affect flavor?
 
Thanks in advance for your advice. Also, thank you for your advice on
grinders and coffee makers.  I’ve decided to upgrade my grinder first, =
and
then get a technivorm.
 
Have a good day,
Beth

2) From: Ed Needham
Those are called 'shells'.  I wouldn't be too concerned.  A lot of African 
coffees used to be horrible in their prep.  Something like a shell would 
roast a bit darker than a full bean but I doubt it would taint the flavor. 
Might even add to the complexity.  Have you tasted any of the roasted 
shells?
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

3) From: Beth Henkels
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Have you tasted any of the roasted shells?
 
Nope.  They looked so weird I tossed them.  However, not to let them go
totally to waste, I threw them in one of my gardens that has acid loving
plants in it.  I’m now curious to see whether or not my garden smells =
like
coffee after it rains or gets really hot. :-)
 
Beth

4) From: Kevin
Ed,
What would be considered a defect?  Should defects be culled prior to or
post roasting?
Kevin
On 5/31/07, Ed Needham  wrote:
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My home coffee roasting blog:http://homecoffeeroastblog.blogspot.com/Kevin

5) From: Floyd Lozano
People go back and forth on the chaff issue.  Here's my take.  It shouldn't
affect flavor but it may affect brewing.  If my beans have a lot of chaff,
the stuff blows around everywhere when I grind it and sometimes chokes up m=
y
filters (drip brewing).  A good post-roast stirring in a mesh colander of
some sort with a fan blowing up through it should knock off a good bunch (i=
f
your roasting method doesn't).
The canoes.  I wondered about them myself - they don't look bad and they
seem to taste like the other beans as well, they are just missing the middl=
e
of the bean.  The only different I'd think would be more surface area which
would mean a faster darker roast on these.  It looks like these are beans
that are halfway between flatbean and peaberry (and their other halves sort
of fell away).  I don't toss them.  Maybe I will grab up a bunch of them
next time and see what they taste like as a group!
-F
On 5/31/07, Beth Henkels  wrote:
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6) From: Justin Marquez
By the way - here is a list of defects and how they change the defect
counts:http://www.coffeeresearch.org/coffee/scaaclass.htmSafe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
On 5/31/07, Beth Henkels  wrote:
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7) From: Justin Marquez
More - with photos:http://www.coffeeresearch.org/coffee/defects.htmSafe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
On 5/31/07, Beth Henkels  wrote:
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8) From: Floyd Lozano
I found a pod in the Kenya from Sweet Maria's.  I guess it's no longer a
specialty coffee!!
-F
Looking at those pics, I have found *lots* of these in second source coffee
(got some non SM poco fundo and was saddened by the amount of insect damage
i saw.  the stuff still tasted good, but it's not as good as SMs).  I
haven't looked long and hard but I haven't found other coffees that beat SMs
for quality except in the cases where it's special lots (other CoE or ecafe
coffees) that SM doesn't get or can't get.  But that's fine, I mainly bought
the other stuff with the intent to tune my roasting skills in the bread
machine and now, RK drum.  Learning on 6 bucks a lb gets expensive!!
-F
On 5/31/07, Justin Marquez  wrote:
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9) From: MichaelB
Beth,
Sounds like you're finding these "defects" in the post roast coffee and not
in the greens. If that's the case these may be divots caused by the beans
fragmenting during roasting instead of expanding as a whole. They will be
fine to grind and brew with the rest. However if they are in the greens the=
n
you may want to eliminate them before you roast them.
On 5/31/07, Beth Henkels  wrote:
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MichaelB

10) From: Justin Marquez
I have no idea exactly what Beth is seeing, but I have seen an occasional
green bean matching her description.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
On 5/31/07, MichaelB  wrote:
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11) From: Bob
MichaelB wrote:
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I find them mostly in the dry processed coffees when I roast beyond City 
Plus. They tend to be darker and taste burnt. There are just a few, so 
tossing the odd one is no big thing.
The interesting coffees with defects are the three Yemens Tom 
offers(ed). Strange shapes and the odd rodent tooth.
Bob

12) From: Brett Mason
That rodent tooth?  Might be a dried corn kernel....  In fact quite a bit
more likely...
Speaking of which, I am going to the Kernels game tonight...http://www.kernels.comCheers,
Brett
On 5/31/07, Bob  wrote:
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-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

13) From: Bob
Brett Mason wrote:
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Nope. A real tooth. Had a zoologist friend confirm. Too small for a corn 
kernel.
Bob

14) From: Les
And some people complain about Brazilian bird processed coffee!
Les
On 5/31/07, Bob  wrote:
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15) From: Michael Mccandless
I have a theory about that.
I've checked before & after.
I think the 1st crack may blow some of the beans apart.
I am curious about something else I've noticed.
Under UV I notice splashes of green fluorescence on some beans - looks like
they were painted.
Not noticeable in white light.
McSparky
On 5/31/07, Beth Henkels  wrote:
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16) From: Floyd Lozano
I vaguely recall a topic or discussion mentioning that some coffee
processors were starting to use UV as a means to detect defects in coffee
that are otherwise undetectable except by taste (phenolic defects?) but a
quick search turned up nothing except a scattering of articles related to
the detection of funguses or bacteria via UV excitation.  I don't think
that's related to what you're seeing on the surface though, but I'm no
chemist.  I just married one.
-F
On 5/31/07, Michael Mccandless  wrote:
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17) From: Beth Henkels
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I have no idea exactly what Beth is seeing, but I have seen an =
occasional
green bean matching her description
 
If you look at the broken beans in the picture that you sent, that’s =
pretty
much what they look like; except that they weren’t broken, just =
hollow.  A
good example would be that large bean at the bottom of the picture, only
picture it as a complete oval that is hollow. 
 
I went back and looked at the same beans in their green state and I =
don’t
see any beans like that.  So it’s something that is happening during =
the
roasting.
 
Anyway, thanks again everyone for your help.  As always, it’s very =
much
appreciated!
Beth  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Justin =
Marquez
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 2:57 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +are these defects?
 
I have no idea exactly what Beth is seeing, but I have seen an =
occasional
green bean matching her description.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX) 
 
On 5/31/07, MichaelB  wrote: 
Beth,
 
Sounds like you're finding these "defects" in the post roast coffee and =
not
in the greens. If that's the case these may be divots caused by the =
beans
fragmenting during roasting instead of expanding as a whole. They will =
be
fine to grind and brew with the rest. However if they are in the greens =
then
you may want to eliminate them before you roast them. 
 
On 5/31/07, Beth Henkels  wrote: 
Good morning everyone,
 
I am currently roasting Kenya AA auction lot 764-Ndaroini Nyeri.  I have
noticed a lot of what I think are defects.  They appear as hollow beans.
Imagine a little canoe looking bean after roasting.  Are these defects?  =
I
have never noticed anything like this before in any of my other roasts, =
but
these are so noticeable and numerous.  I'm only through about a ½ lb. =
and
I've already thrown out at least 50 beans.  

18) From: Ed Needham
I personally don't fuss with removing individual beans unless it really 
sticks out among the other beans.  Much of the character in the cup can come 
from differences in the beans.  I remember the Sumatras from years back that 
were so ugly you'd think there was no way to get a good cup of brew from it, 
but somehow it worked.  If you culled out all the different beans and 
'defects', the final brew would not have been as good.
Justin posted a photo pictorial of the various common defects...http://www.coffeeresearch.org/coffee/defects.htmIt looks good to me.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

19) From: Ed Needham
I think too much chaff adds a grassy taste to the brew.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

20) From: Larry Johnson
I've seen beans like she described - little hollowed-out "canoes" and I have
to say that I only remember seeing roasted beans that looked like that,
never greens. I also seem to remember that they were the more "funky"
coffees that had those. I didn't pick any of them out unless they were
burnt, which I don't think many were. Sorry for the spotty memory, I'll try
to pay more attention next time.
On 6/1/07, Ed Needham  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Larry J
Sometimes I get the feeling the whole world is against me, but deep down I
know that's not true. Some smaller countries are neutral.
- Robert Orben

21) From: Alchemist John
Well, on the other end of the spectrum (from DP) is the Jacu Bird 
coffee.  I just received my pound and noticed 1-2% very dark 
beans.  Any clue if we should cull these?
At 13:35 5/31/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

22) From: Eddie Dove
Those aren't beans ...
Eddie
On 6/1/07, Alchemist John  wrote:
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23) From: Aaron
Just my two cents.   When I get a batch of beans... the ethiopians come 
to mind, ie the harrar's for example and they have beans that don't cook 
right, stay white, or go very dark,  unless there are a lot of them, I 
just leave them in.....  so far i have never had a problem with it, and 
figure it adds to the overall of the cup of coffee..  Maybe thats one of 
the things that makes it such a different coffee,  is because the beans 
are all different, don't roast evenly etc etc...
some folks have said they weed them out, others say the leave them in... 
I guess the choice is really up to you, how you feel about it?
Aaron

24) From: Alchemist John
birds don't produce "bird berries".  Try again :P
At 05:37 6/1/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

25) From: Eddie Dove
Yeah ... I know ... but I crack me up!
I got a pound too, but haven't roasted it yet.  I've got some kind of
crud and I cannot smell or taste anything.  Although, I am sure that
some would suggest that now might be the best time ...
Eddie
-- 
Vita non est vivere sed valere vita est
Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafehttp://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/On 6/1/07, Alchemist John  wrote:
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26) From: Bob
Aaron wrote:
<Snip>
Yup. Call it as you see it. With a DP coffee you'll get an uneven roast. 
I leave most of the beans that look lightly roasted. Even some of the 
"canoes" will stay if they look ok.
Bob

27) From: raymanowen
...noticed 1-2% very dark beans.  Any clue what we should call these?
Well, no, I have no Clue other than Vogel Scheiße. Do you maintain an avi=
ary
nearby?  -ro

28) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
Good morning everyone,
I am currently roasting Kenya AA auction lot 764-Ndaroini Nyeri.  I 
have noticed a lot of what I think are defects.  They appear as 
hollow beans.  Imagine a little canoe looking bean after roasting. 
Are these defects?  I have never noticed anything like this before in 
any of my other roasts, but these are so noticeable and numerous. 
I'm only through about a ½ lb. and I've already thrown out at least 
50 beans.
Those are called "elephant ears". Nice name, eh? They are found most 
often in Kenya, Zimbabwe, Zambia and such. They are part of a 
two-seeded coffee cherry where one seed forms around another, usually 
a peaberry. Peaberry is considered the one-seeded cherry, but 
actually when you open and peaberry cherry on the tree, you find a 
sliver of the "aborted" seed. Well, in the cherry that forms the 
elephant ear, that "aborted" seed is formed enough to create a viable 
seed, but with an odd shape enveloping the other. Technically it is a 
defect, but it actually roasts and cups well, so it is a .2 scoring 
defect, very minor.
I don't want to see them in a lot, but I wont bias my scoring based 
on them, since they don't have a negative cup impact.
Tom
--
                   "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
            Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting  -  Tom & Maria
                      http://www.sweetmarias.com                Thompson Owen george_at_sweetmarias.com
     Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
             phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom_at_sweetmarias.com


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