HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Behmor 1600 Espresso Report - dark roast report (24 msgs / 1317 lines)
1) From: Alchemist John
Let's start with this (backed up by a phone call to Joe this morning).
NO FRENCH ROAST.
There, is that clear?
Vienna?  Maybe. I consider this over roasted anyway, but that is 
me.  Stopping at this point is IMO touchy.  Joe, knowing his roaster 
I suspect could do it.  At that level you are probably counting time 
(see below).
FC+ - no problem.
Why am I saying this?  Let's leave it at the smoke suppression system 
can't handle Vienna, and I missed stopping at Vienna, French and the 
roast got a bit out of control. :O  Then had a bit of cleanup.
The official word is going to be no french roasts.  The roast is 
simply progressing too fast at this point and internal safety 
features shut the system down (yeah safety features).  When that 
happened there were huge amounts of billowing blue smoke.
Going back a little to what would work.  I was able to take 8 oz to 
FC+ (10 seconds into 2nd) with no smoke.  At 16 oz, Profile 3, 18 
minutes, there was smoke just before 2nd starting to show (1st was 
about 18 minutes). Acceptable I bet for a smoke alarm.   At 30 
seconds in, the window was obscured and I could not tell the roast 
level and smoke alarms would have gone off.  At that point the roast 
is/was exothermic - nuff said.
The roaster is now cleaned up and survived it's "experience".
As Les said, as long as you let it cool between roasts (it has a 130 
C internal start sensor), it should do just great "back to back".
At 22:18 6/23/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

2) From: Rich
So, the bottom line is 1/2 pound will make it to FC+ and pushing further is a ticket for a disaster.  
This is OK actually as charcoal lacks flavor.....
It is also good to know the roaster will survive "operator errors" without a trip to factory repair.
--Original Message Text---
From: Alchemist John
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 11:51:42 -0700
Let's start with this (backed up by a phone call to Joe this morning).
NO FRENCH ROAST.
There, is that clear?  
Vienna?  Maybe. I consider this over roasted anyway, but that is me.  Stopping at this point is IMO 
touchy.  Joe, knowing his roaster I suspect could do it.  At that level you are probably counting time 
(see below).
FC+ - no problem.
Why am I saying this?  Let's leave it at the smoke suppression system can't handle Vienna, and I 
missed stopping at Vienna, French and the roast got a bit out of control. :O  Then had a bit of cleanup.
The official word is going to be no french roasts.  The roast is simply progressing too fast at this point 
and internal safety features shut the system down (yeah safety features).  When that happened there 
were huge amounts of billowing blue smoke.
Going back a little to what would work.  I was able to take 8 oz to FC+ (10 seconds into 2nd) with no 
smoke.  At 16 oz, Profile 3, 18 minutes, there was smoke just before 2nd starting to show (1st was 
about 18 minutes). Acceptable I bet for a smoke alarm.   At 30 seconds in, the window was obscured 
and I could not tell the roast level and smoke alarms would have gone off.  At that point the roast 
is/was exothermic - nuff said.
The roaster is now cleaned up and survived it's "experience".
As Les said, as long as you let it cool between roasts (it has a 130 C internal start sensor), it should 
do just great "back to back".
At 22:18 6/23/2007, you wrote:
Ok,
Glad you asked. what I am looking for is how does it perform on the darker roasts, FC+ and Vienna and even into 
French roast. Does the afterburner keep up? can you see the beans well enough to not over roast them? How is the 
cooling performance? I am looking at this as a roaster that will be doing roasts at 16 oz stating weight. How does it 
perform when doing 3 or 4 roasts back to back?
--Original Message Text---
From: Alchemist John
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 21:35:54 -0700
Keep in mind, ALL the forum posts were speculation. This is an actual production model. I know there were some 
wisps of smoke at the gathering test, but so far for me, it has been totally smokeless up into 2nd, though not rolling.
I have made this offer on a couple forums with virtually no response. What do people want to know? I am mostly 
testing for cocoa, but I am doing coffee. So far, profile 1 and 2 are too fast with 8 oz (1st and 2nd merge). I will try 3 
next with 8 oz and then go from there. Contrary to Les, I still have issues seeing the roast with the chaff tray in 
place. But it is indeed a great value with what I see so far.
At 19:46 6/23/2007, you wrote:
So, contrary to the general wisdom expressed in several forum posts, it does work. To be able to take 1 Lb to FC+ and 
not have all of the smoke detectors in full bray will be nice... 
--Original Message Text---
From: Les
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 19:26:04 -0700
Yes it is almost smokeless. Joe uses a coil to burn the smoke off, so you don't have filters to change. It is a good 
design.
Les
On 6/23/07, Justin Nevins < piercednevins > wrote: What about the smoke aspect of it? Is it anywhere 
close to smokeless?
Justin Nevins
On 6/23/07, Les < les.albjerg > wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

3) From: Rich M
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Geez, the more I hear about this thing, the more I'm becoming  
convinced that my little IR2 is the machine for me. Like others, I  
like most of my beans a bit darker than the norm-- somewhere around a  
FC+ to Vienna. I can do about 1/4 pound at this level in my IR2  
pretty easily. I personally don't see the advantage to buying a  
machine in which I can POSSIBLY do 1/2 pound and MAYBE get to the  
level of roast I like (sorry to all you purists who find Vienna a bit  
lowbrow). Add to that the fact that visibility is suspect just makes  
me think I might stick with the less expensive IR2. Our host, on many  
occasions, has reminded us that sight and smell should be the primary  
criteria when roasting and this machine seems to be a bit lacking in  
that respect.
IMHO, it seems like a nice machine for a select few but not one that  
will appeal to the masses with their varying degrees of taste.
Rich M
On Jun 24, 2007, at 2:12 PM, Rich wrote:
<Snip>
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	charsetO-8859-1
Geez, the more I hear about this =
thing, the more I'm becoming convinced that my little IR2 is the machine =
for me. Like others, I like most of my beans a bit darker than the =
norm-- somewhere around a FC+ to Vienna. I can do about 1/4 pound at =
this level in my IR2 pretty easily. I personally don't see the advantage =
to buying a machine in which I can POSSIBLY do 1/2 pound and MAYBE get =
to the level of roast I like (sorry to all you purists who find Vienna a =
bit lowbrow). Add to that the fact that visibility is suspect just makes =
me think I might stick with the less expensive IR2. Our host, on many =
occasions, has reminded us that sight and smell should be the primary =
criteria when roasting and this machine seems to be a bit lacking in =
that respect.
IMHO, = it seems like a nice machine for a select few but not one that will = appeal to the masses with their varying degrees of taste.
Rich M  On = Jun 24, 2007, at 2:12 PM, Rich wrote:
So, the bottom line is 1/2 pound will = make it to FC+ and pushing further is a ticket for a disaster. This is = OK actually as charcoal lacks flavor..... It is also good to = know the roaster will survive "operator errors" without a trip to = factory repair. --Original Message Text--- From: = Alchemist John Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 11:51:42 -0700 = Let's start with this (backed up by a phone call to Joe this = morning). NO FRENCH ROAST. There, is that clear? = Vienna? Maybe. I consider this over roasted anyway, but that is = me. Stopping at this point is IMO touchy. Joe, knowing his roaster I = suspect could do it. At that level you are probably counting time (see = below). FC+ - no problem. Why am I saying this? Let's = leave it at the smoke suppression system can't handle Vienna, and I = missed stopping at Vienna, French and the roast got a bit out of = control. :O Then had a bit of cleanup. The official word is = going to be no french roasts. The roast is simply progressing too fast = at this point and internal safety features shut the system down (yeah = safety features). When that happened there were huge amounts of = billowing blue smoke. Going back a little to what would work. = I was able to take 8 oz to FC+ (10 seconds into 2nd) with no smoke. At = 16 oz, Profile 3, 18 minutes, there was smoke just before 2nd starting = to show (1st was about 18 minutes). Acceptable I bet for a smoke alarm. = At 30 seconds in, the window was obscured and I could not tell the = roast level and smoke alarms would have gone off. At that point the = roast is/was exothermic - nuff said. The roaster is now cleaned = up and survived it's "experience". As Les said, as long as you = let it cool between roasts (it has a 130 C internal start sensor), it = should do just great "back to back". At 22:18 6/23/2007, you = wrote: Ok, Glad you asked. = what I am looking for is how does it perform on the darker roasts, FC+ = and Vienna and even into French roast. Does the afterburner keep up? can = you see the beans well enough to not over roast them? How is the cooling = performance? I am looking at this as a roaster that will be doing roasts = at 16 oz stating weight. How does it perform when doing 3 or 4 roasts = back to back? --Original Message Text--- From: = Alchemist John Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 21:35:54 -0700 = Keep in mind, ALL the forum posts were speculation. This is an actual = production model. I know there were some wisps of smoke at the gathering = test, but so far for me, it has been totally smokeless up into 2nd, = though not rolling. I have made this offer on a couple forums = with virtually no response. What do people want to know? I am mostly = testing for cocoa, but I am doing coffee. So far, profile 1 and 2 are = too fast with 8 oz (1st and 2nd merge). I will try 3 next with 8 oz and = then go from there. Contrary to Les, I still have issues seeing the = roast with the chaff tray in place. But it is indeed a great value with = what I see so far. At 19:46 6/23/2007, you wrote: So, = contrary to the general wisdom expressed in several forum posts, it does = work. To be able to take 1 Lb to FC+ and not have all of the smoke = detectors in full bray will be nice... --Original Message = Text--- From: Les Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 19:26:04 = -0700 Yes it is almost smokeless. Joe uses a coil to burn the = smoke off, so you don't have filters to change. It is a good design. = Les On 6/23/07, Justin Nevins < piercednevins = > wrote: What about the smoke aspect of it? Is it anywhere close to = smokeless? Justin Nevins On 6/23/07, Les < les.albjerg > = wrote: > I pulled shots today from coffee roasted 7 days ago in = the Behmor 1600 at > the PNWG. These beans were roasted at a = profile 3 and I had a one pound > roast done under less than = ideal conditions. I had Joe (the inventor of the > Behmor) doing = the roast. He hit the cool button at a city roast. This is > = where I wanted the roast to be. I was able to visually see the beans = very > well, and smell the roast as well. One of my concerns was = with the cooling > of the beans. The beans cool inside of the = roaster, and it didn't seem like > a big blast of air was going = through. However it must have been good > enough! Poor cooling = becomes very evident after five days in my opinion and > = experience. A well cooled bean will not fade or become bitter until = about > day 14. However a poorly roasted and cooled bean won't = make it past day 5. > The cappos and ristrettos this morning = were simply outstanding. I know that > one roast doesn't prove = everything, but I do believe that the potential is > there for a = very fine homeroaster. You are not going to get a > = $1,000.00Hottop performance out of a $300.00 Behmor, but I think = there > is good value > in this roaster if it proves to be = reliable. I think it is much better than > the I-Roast or the = Genie Cafe from what I have seen. So disagree with me, > flame = me if you want but that is my opinion of my first experience with = the > Behmor 1600. Hopefully Alchemist John will bring it over = next week for me > to put a few more roasts through it. I was a = sceptic, but now you can call > me hopeful. > > = Les > = homeroast mailing list http://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast To change = your personal list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go = to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings = John Nanci AlChemist at large = Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalt http://www.chocolatealchemy.com/ John Nanci AlChemist at = large Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalt = http://www.chocolatealchemy.com/ = = --Apple-Mail-3-395645818--

4) From: Michael Dhabolt
John,
The graphs - time vs temp profiles - that Joe showed us at PNWG V
would probably be instructive to those considering this roaster.  Did
I hear him say that the owners manual was online somewhere?
All in all, everything I am hearing about the machine is positive,
that coupled with a very positive impression of Joe, gives me the warm
and fuzzies about the roaster.  I think that after meeting and
shooting the bull with Joe, I have became convinced that he is the
kind of guy that is going to have a continuing commitment to the
roaster.
IMHO, my appraisal of roast levels that most home roasters shoot for,
after doing it for a while, leans toward a Full City + as maximum with
a very few exceptions.  This roaster seems fully capable of that.
Mike (just plain)

5) From: Rich
Thanks for the bug Mike, here is the URL for the profiles:   http://behmor.com/roasterheat_specifications.html  I had his site bookmarked but had not dug into it 
very far.
And, I tend to agree that FC+ is about as dark as most people go on a routine basis.  There is always the 
backup stove top corn popper for the French Roast.
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 12:58:20 -0700, Michael Dhabolt wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings

6) From: Alchemist John
To clarify slightly, 1 lb WILL make it to FC+ - just not "smokeless".
As for user error, minor defensiveness ;), I didn't actually DO 
anything wrong except trying to roast to French.  It was like trying 
too hit a high fast moving target with a gun you are not used 
to.  Think skeet shooting with a new gun with one eye closed - 
LOL.  But yes, whereas the safety feature did not save the roast, it 
did save the unit.
At 12:12 6/24/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

7) From: Alchemist John
Please keep in mind, after speaking with Joe, these graphs are not 
quite accurate.  Those ramps are not real. It was quirk of his 
software.  They are actually stair steps.  I have offered to him more 
accurate graphs - I have no clue if they will be implemented or those 
below will stay. Further, as I am finding out, the "control" for 70% 
power, is on the order of 14 seconds on for the elements, 6 seconds 
off.  You can hear the switches and power hum change.
At 13:27 6/24/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

8) From: miKe mcKoffee
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Rich,
IMHO your HO at this point is virtually worthless as far as the Behmor 1600
goes. Seem to be making some very premature "conclusions" based on very
preliminary test reports "of others". Almost as bad as the neysayers on CG
thread basing there comments 100% on speculations...
 
I'll wager it'll be no more difficult to do a 1# French roast in the Behmor
1600 than 4# French roast in RK drum. It'll just be a matter of the skill of
the roaster timing end of roast so it doesn't get away, not the Behmor
roaster. Of course at that dark roast level NO roaster is smokeless, and the
Behmor 1600 doesn't claim to be, but rather smoke-less as in less smoke not
no smoke. I will of course have the opportunity to back up and document my
comments when Alchemist returns to Behmor to me. They'll include how well/if
further profile manipulation can be affected by variac.
 
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/ 
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Rich M
Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 12:37 PM
Geez, the more I hear about this thing, the more I'm becoming convinced that
my little IR2 is the machine for me. Like others, I like most of my beans a
bit darker than the norm-- somewhere around a FC+ to Vienna. I can do about
1/4 pound at this level in my IR2 pretty easily. I personally don't see the
advantage to buying a machine in which I can POSSIBLY do 1/2 pound and MAYBE
get to the level of roast I like (sorry to all you purists who find Vienna a
bit lowbrow). Add to that the fact that visibility is suspect just makes me
think I might stick with the less expensive IR2. Our host, on many
occasions, has reminded us that sight and smell should be the primary
criteria when roasting and this machine seems to be a bit lacking in that
respect. 
IMHO, it seems like a nice machine for a select few but not one that will
appeal to the masses with their varying degrees of taste.
 

9) From: Alchemist John
Nope, it can DEFINITELY do 1/2 lb, and also 1 lb (albeit with 
smoke).  As for "lowbrow" - heh, it's your coffee, roast and drink it 
like YOU like.  I just don't care for roast flavor.  As for sight, 
there is "talk" that maybe a glass view window might be an 
option.  That would improve things.  And even with the after burner, 
smell is still a valid indicator.
Also, I think you might have the appeal backwards.  IMO it will be 
great for the "masses".  By all indications, it is roasting for a 
fine cup.  If you love the hands on control of roasting, that is the 
"select few".  I don't think the masses want or will use fine profile 
control.  We are a VERY control biased group.
So, any more questions?
At 12:36 6/24/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

10) From: Rich
I can tolerate a little smoke, its the dense blue cloud I want to avoid.  I am willing to bet that everyone 
who buys one of these units will, at some time or another, perform an unscheduled functional test of 
the safety shutdown system.
--Original Message Text---
From: Alchemist John
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 13:38:08 -0700
To clarify slightly, 1 lb WILL make it to FC+ - just not "smokeless".
As for user error, minor defensiveness ;), I didn't actually DO anything wrong except trying to roast to 
French.  It was like trying too hit a high fast moving target with a gun you are not used to.  Think 
skeet shooting with a new gun with one eye closed - LOL.  But yes, whereas the safety feature did not 
save the roast, it did save the unit.
At 12:12 6/24/2007, you wrote:
So, the bottom line is 1/2 pound will make it to FC+ and pushing further is a ticket for a disaster. This is OK actually 
as charcoal lacks flavor.....
It is also good to know the roaster will survive "operator errors" without a trip to factory repair.
--Original Message Text---
From: Alchemist John
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 11:51:42 -0700
Let's start with this (backed up by a phone call to Joe this morning).
NO FRENCH ROAST.
There, is that clear? 
Vienna? Maybe. I consider this over roasted anyway, but that is me. Stopping at this point is IMO touchy. Joe, 
knowing his roaster I suspect could do it. At that level you are probably counting time (see below).
FC+ - no problem.
Why am I saying this? Let's leave it at the smoke suppression system can't handle Vienna, and I missed stopping at 
Vienna, French and the roast got a bit out of control. :O Then had a bit of cleanup.
The official word is going to be no french roasts. The roast is simply progressing too fast at this point and internal 
safety features shut the system down (yeah safety features). When that happened there were huge amounts of 
billowing blue smoke.
Going back a little to what would work. I was able to take 8 oz to FC+ (10 seconds into 2nd) with no smoke. At 16 oz, 
Profile 3, 18 minutes, there was smoke just before 2nd starting to show (1st was about 18 minutes). Acceptable I bet 
for a smoke alarm. At 30 seconds in, the window was obscured and I could not tell the roast level and smoke alarms 
would have gone off. At that point the roast is/was exothermic - nuff said.
The roaster is now cleaned up and survived it's "experience".
As Les said, as long as you let it cool between roasts (it has a 130 C internal start sensor), it should do just great 
"back to back".
At 22:18 6/23/2007, you wrote:
Ok,
Glad you asked. what I am looking for is how does it perform on the darker roasts, FC+ and Vienna and even into 
French roast. Does the afterburner keep up? can you see the beans well enough to not over roast them? How is the 
cooling performance? I am looking at this as a roaster that will be doing roasts at 16 oz stating weight. How does it 
perform when doing 3 or 4 roasts back to back?
--Original Message Text---
From: Alchemist John
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 21:35:54 -0700
Keep in mind, ALL the forum posts were speculation. This is an actual production model. I know there were some 
wisps of smoke at the gathering test, but so far for me, it has been totally smokeless up into 2nd, though not rolling.
I have made this offer on a couple forums with virtually no response. What do people want to know? I am mostly 
testing for cocoa, but I am doing coffee. So far, profile 1 and 2 are too fast with 8 oz (1st and 2nd merge). I will try 3 
next with 8 oz and then go from there. Contrary to Les, I still have issues seeing the roast with the chaff tray in 
place. But it is indeed a great value with what I see so far.
At 19:46 6/23/2007, you wrote:
So, contrary to the general wisdom expressed in several forum posts, it does work. To be able to take 1 Lb to FC+ and 
not have all of the smoke detectors in full bray will be nice... 
--Original Message Text---
From: Les
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 19:26:04 -0700
Yes it is almost smokeless. Joe uses a coil to burn the smoke off, so you don't have filters to change. It is a good 
design.
Les
On 6/23/07, Justin Nevins < piercednevins > wrote: What about the smoke aspect of it? Is it anywhere 
close to smokeless?
Justin Nevins
On 6/23/07, Les < les.albjerg > wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

11) From: miKe mcKoffee
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
If I understand correctly I stand corrected. I.E. Joe designed the Behmor
1600 with internal thermal safety to cutout before heavily carbonized
dripping oil all origin characteristics eclipsed by char Full French ~475f
bean temp can be obtained, about 10f higher than Tom states he'll roast ANY
bean or blend anyway. Bummer. And guess Joe has some taste:-)
 
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/ 
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Alchemist John
Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 11:52 AM
Let's start with this (backed up by a phone call to Joe this morning).
NO FRENCH ROAST.
There, is that clear?  
Vienna?  Maybe. I consider this over roasted anyway, but that is me.
Stopping at this point is IMO touchy.  Joe, knowing his roaster I suspect
could do it.  At that level you are probably counting time (see below).
FC+ - no problem.
Why am I saying this?  Let's leave it at the smoke suppression system can't
handle Vienna, and I missed stopping at Vienna, French and the roast got a
bit out of control. :O  Then had a bit of cleanup.
The official word is going to be no french roasts.  The roast is simply
progressing too fast at this point and internal safety features shut the
system down (yeah safety features).  When that happened there were huge
amounts of billowing blue smoke.

12) From: Rich
Mike you may have me confused with the author you quoted below.  I fully expect that full french roast 
will be doable, with smoke.  My comment was that FC+ is where most people stop when going to the 
dark roasts.  And, if it should prove to be difficult to do french roast, yet to be determined, then the 
corn popper on the stove will work.
I am not overly concerned about smoke.  I am not married and have a large commercial range with 
grill and broiler.  This unit can make a lot of smoke.  It has also been used as a heat treating oven 
and does a bangup job of curing paint finishes.  No wife to ask howcome the house is full of toxic 
smoke...
Rich
--Original Message Text---
From: miKe mcKoffee
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 13:49:15 -0700
Rich, 
IMHO your HO at this point is virtually worthless as far as the Behmor 1600 goes. Seem to be making some very premature 
"conclusions" based on very preliminary test reports "of others". Almost as bad as the neysayers on CG thread basing there 
comments 100% on speculations... 
I'll wager it'll be no more difficult to do a 1# French roast in the Behmor 1600 than 4# French roast in RK drum. It'll just be a matter of 
the skill of the roaster timing end of roast so it doesn't get away, not the Behmor roaster. Of course at that dark roast level NO roaster 
is smokeless, and the Behmor 1600 doesn't claim to be, but rather smoke-less as in less smoke not no smoke. I will of course have 
the opportunity to back up and document my comments when Alchemist returns to Behmor to me. They'll include how well/if  further 
profile manipulation can be affected by variac. 
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each 
Personal enlightenment found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/From: homeroast-admin [mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Rich M
Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 12:37 PM
Geez, the more I hear about this thing, the more I'm becoming convinced that my little IR2 is the machine for me. Like others, I like 
most of my beans a bit darker than the norm-- somewhere around a FC+ to Vienna. I can do about 1/4 pound at this level in my IR2 
pretty easily. I personally don't see the advantage to buying a machine in which I can POSSIBLY do 1/2 pound and MAYBE get to the 
level of roast I like (sorry to all you purists who find Vienna a bit lowbrow). Add to that the fact that visibility is suspect just makes me 
think I might stick with the less expensive IR2. Our host, on many occasions, has reminded us that sight and smell should be the 
primary criteria when roasting and this machine seems to be a bit lacking in that respect. 
IMHO, it seems like a nice machine for a select few but not one that will appeal to the masses with their varying degrees of taste.

13) From: Rich
Everything I have heard so far convinces me that this is a machine that I want on the kitchen 
counter.  Roasting coffee in an air conditioned environment in the summer and heated in the winter 
has a great deal of appeal.  Seems like the only minor drawback is that if you should want french 
roast then you will have a little smoke, and I, for one can live with that.
I have every intent of purchasing one as soon as it is available.
Rich
--Original Message Text---
From: Alchemist John
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 13:49:51 -0700
Nope, it can DEFINITELY do 1/2 lb, and also 1 lb (albeit with smoke).  As for "lowbrow" - heh, it's your 
coffee, roast and drink it like YOU like.  I just don't care for roast flavor.  As for sight, there is "talk" 
that maybe a glass view window might be an option.  That would improve things.  And even with the 
after burner, smell is still a valid indicator.
Also, I think you might have the appeal backwards.  IMO it will be great for the "masses".  By all 
indications, it is roasting for a fine cup.  If you love the hands on control of roasting, that is the "select 
few".  I don't think the masses want or will use fine profile control.  We are a VERY control biased 
group.
So, any more questions?
At 12:36 6/24/2007, you wrote:
Geez, the more I hear about this thing, the more I'm becoming convinced that my little IR2 is the 
machine for me. Like others, I like most of my beans a bit darker than the norm-- somewhere around 
a FC+ to Vienna. I can do about 1/4 pound at this level in my IR2 pretty easily. I personally don't see 
the advantage to buying a machine in which I can POSSIBLY do 1/2 pound and MAYBE get to the level 
of roast I like (sorry to all you purists who find Vienna a bit lowbrow). Add to that the fact that visibility 
is suspect just makes me think I might stick with the less expensive IR2. Our host, on many 
occasions, has reminded us that sight and smell should be the primary criteria when roasting and 
this machine seems to be a bit lacking in that respect.
IMHO, it seems like a nice machine for a select few but not one that will appeal to the masses with 
their varying degrees of taste.
Rich M 
On Jun 24, 2007, at 2:12 PM, Rich wrote:
So, the bottom line is 1/2 pound will make it to FC+ and pushing further is a ticket for a disaster. This is OK actually 
as charcoal lacks flavor.....
It is also good to know the roaster will survive "operator errors" without a trip to factory repair.
--Original Message Text---
From: Alchemist John
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 11:51:42 -0700
Let's start with this (backed up by a phone call to Joe this morning).
NO FRENCH ROAST.
There, is that clear? 
Vienna? Maybe. I consider this over roasted anyway, but that is me. Stopping at this point is IMO touchy. Joe, 
knowing his roaster I suspect could do it. At that level you are probably counting time (see below).
FC+ - no problem.
Why am I saying this? Let's leave it at the smoke suppression system can't handle Vienna, and I missed stopping at 
Vienna, French and the roast got a bit out of control. :O Then had a bit of cleanup.
The official word is going to be no french roasts. The roast is simply progressing too fast at this point and internal 
safety features shut the system down (yeah safety features). When that happened there were huge amounts of 
billowing blue smoke.
Going back a little to what would work. I was able to take 8 oz to FC+ (10 seconds into 2nd) with no smoke. At 16 oz, 
Profile 3, 18 minutes, there was smoke just before 2nd starting to show (1st was about 18 minutes). Acceptable I bet 
for a smoke alarm. At 30 seconds in, the window was obscured and I could not tell the roast level and smoke alarms 
would have gone off. At that point the roast is/was exothermic - nuff said.
The roaster is now cleaned up and survived it's "experience".
As Les said, as long as you let it cool between roasts (it has a 130 C internal start sensor), it should do just great 
"back to back".
At 22:18 6/23/2007, you wrote:
Ok,
Glad you asked. what I am looking for is how does it perform on the darker roasts, FC+ and Vienna and even into 
French roast. Does the afterburner keep up? can you see the beans well enough to not over roast them? How is the 
cooling performance? I am looking at this as a roaster that will be doing roasts at 16 oz stating weight. How does it 
perform when doing 3 or 4 roasts back to back?
--Original Message Text---
From: Alchemist John
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 21:35:54 -0700
Keep in mind, ALL the forum posts were speculation. This is an actual production model. I know there were some 
wisps of smoke at the gathering test, but so far for me, it has been totally smokeless up into 2nd, though not rolling.
I have made this offer on a couple forums with virtually no response. What do people want to know? I am mostly 
testing for cocoa, but I am doing coffee. So far, profile 1 and 2 are too fast with 8 oz (1st and 2nd merge). I will try 3 
next with 8 oz and then go from there. Contrary to Les, I still have issues seeing the roast with the chaff tray in 
place. But it is indeed a great value with what I see so far.
At 19:46 6/23/2007, you wrote:
So, contrary to the general wisdom expressed in several forum posts, it does work. To be able to take 1 Lb to FC+ and 
not have all of the smoke detectors in full bray will be nice... 
--Original Message Text---
From: Les
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 19:26:04 -0700
Yes it is almost smokeless. Joe uses a coil to burn the smoke off, so you don't have filters to change. It is a good 
design.
Les
On 6/23/07, Justin Nevins < piercednevins > wrote: What about the smoke aspect of it? Is it anywhere 
close to smokeless?
Justin Nevins
On 6/23/07, Les < les.albjerg > wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

14) From: Alchemist John
Just a quick one Mike - I also plan to test out the Behmor with 
variac.  I just want to give it a full and fair shot without mods.
Also, I will beg to differ - it IS harder to do 1# in the Behmor to 
French and the reason is simple.  You have no way to slow the stock 
unit down.  You do in a drum with burner control.  And to add weight 
to that Joe does not recommend French for that same reason.  A pound 
of coffee produces a LOT of smoke at rolling 2nd.
And have not fear - I have not hurt your roaster :-)
At 13:49 6/24/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

15) From: miKe mcKoffee
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I already posted my stand corrected:-)  Seems what would be needed for any
chance of a French "stock" (no variac to drop voltage late in roast) would
be a profile that dropped power % at a final late stage as beans going
exothermic. But currently doesn't so it can't, stock. Would be "nice" if
profiles were actually programable, but then at $300 price point full
programability not to be expected. But I suspect the stock control unit
could eaislty be by-passed and either full manual or PID programable control
attained. Or even fancier like Jeffrey's computer control interface. But
those expecting that type of control on a $300 stock unit are living in
la-la land. That type of control on a pro roaster runs multi thousands of $.
 
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/ 
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Alchemist John
Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 2:17 PM
Just a quick one Mike - I also plan to test out the Behmor with variac.  I
just want to give it a full and fair shot without mods.
Also, I will beg to differ - it IS harder to do 1# in the Behmor to French
and the reason is simple.  You have no way to slow the stock unit down.  You
do in a drum with burner control.  And to add weight to that Joe does not
recommend French for that same reason.  A pound of coffee produces a LOT of
smoke at rolling 2nd.
And have not fear - I have not hurt your roaster :-)
At 13:49 6/24/2007, you wrote:
Rich,
IMHO your HO at this point is virtually worthless as far as the Behmor 1600
goes. Seem to be making some very premature "conclusions" based on very
preliminary test reports "of others". Almost as bad as the neysayers on CG
thread basing there comments 100% on speculations...
 
I'll wager it'll be no more difficult to do a 1# French roast in the Behmor
1600 than 4# French roast in RK drum. It'll just be a matter of the skill of
the roaster timing end of roast so it doesn't get away, not the Behmor
roaster. Of course at that dark roast level NO roaster is smokeless, and the
Behmor 1600 doesn't claim to be, but rather smoke-less as in less smoke not
no smoke. I will of course have the opportunity to back up and document my
comments when Alchemist returns to Behmor to me. They'll include how well/if
further profile manipulation can be affected by variac.
 
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/ 
From: homeroast-admin [
mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Rich M
Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 12:37 PM
Geez, the more I hear about this thing, the more I'm becoming convinced that
my little IR2 is the machine for me. Like others, I like most of my beans a
bit darker than the norm-- somewhere around a FC+ to Vienna. I can do about
1/4 pound at this level in my IR2 pretty easily. I personally don't see the
advantage to buying a machine in which I can POSSIBLY do 1/2 pound and MAYBE
get to the level of roast I like (sorry to all you purists who find Vienna a
bit lowbrow). Add to that the fact that visibility is suspect just makes me
think I might stick with the less expensive IR2. Our host, on many
occasions, has reminded us that sight and smell should be the primary
criteria when roasting and this machine seems to be a bit lacking in that
respect. 
IMHO, it seems like a nice machine for a select few but not one that will
appeal to the masses with their varying degrees of taste.
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

16) From: Rich M
--Apple-Mail-3-404157181
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Oh Yeah?!
Well IMHO of your HO that MHO is "worthless", I think we should meet  
out back after school and...
Listen, I'm not trying to knock this machine or be a naysayer. But  
the only basis we have to judge at this point is the preliminary test  
reports of others. I kind of thought that was the point of this list;  
to toss ideas, opinions, etc around and eventually learn something  
while having a little fun. I had been planning to buy a GC in the  
near future but have put that on hold until the full results are in  
on the behmor.
You start your second paragraph with "I'll wager it'll be no more  
difficult to...".  So in essence you're guessing what the capability  
of this machine will be. And I think that's great.. speculation  
stimulates all sorts of discussion and more questions. But to hammer  
me for throwing my two-cents worth? Unless you have recently bought  
stock in Ronco I don't see how my comments could have been offensive.  
C'mon, can't we all just be friends? (At this point, I'd give you a  
big bear hug if you were here!)
Rich M
On Jun 24, 2007, at 3:49 PM, miKe mcKoffee wrote:
<Snip>
--Apple-Mail-3-404157181
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Oh Yeah?! Well IMHO of =
your HO that MHO is "worthless", I think we should meet out back after =
school and...
Listen, I'm not trying to = knock this machine or be a naysayer. But the only basis we have to judge = at this point is the preliminary test reports of others. I kind of = thought that was the point of this list; to toss ideas, opinions, etc = around and eventually learn something while having a little fun. I had = been planning to buy a GC in the near future but have put that on hold = until the full results are in on the behmor.
You start your second = paragraph with "I'll wager it'll be no more difficult to...".  So in = essence you're guessing what the capability of this machine will be. And = I think that's great.. speculation stimulates all sorts of discussion = and more questions. But to hammer me for throwing my two-cents worth? = Unless you have recently bought stock in Ronco I don't see how my = comments could have been offensive. C'mon, can't we all just be friends? = (At this point, I'd give you a big bear hug if you were = here!)
Rich M =   On Jun 24, 2007, at 3:49 PM, miKe mcKoffee = wrote:
Rich, IMHO your HO at this point is virtually worthless as far as = the Behmor 1600 goes. Seem to be making some very premature = "conclusions" based on very preliminary test reports "of others". Almost = as bad as the neysayers on CG thread basing there comments 100% on = speculations...   I'll wager it'll be no more difficult to do a 1# French roast = in the Behmor 1600 than 4# French roast in RK drum. It'll just be a = matter of the skill of the roaster timing end of roast so it doesn't get = away, not the Behmor roaster. Of course at that dark roast level NO = roaster is smokeless, and the Behmor 1600 doesn't claim to be, but = rather smoke-less as in less smoke not no smoke. I will of course have = the opportunity to back up and document my comments when Alchemist = returns to Behmor to me. They'll include how well/if  further profile = manipulation can be affected by variac.  

Pacific = Northwest Gathering VI http://home.comcast.ne=t/~mckona/PNWGVI.htm Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee URL to = Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc: http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimate= ly the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must first = not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment = found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone = before. Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archives http://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/

From: homeroast-admin= s.sweetmarias.com [mailto:homeroast-adm= in] On Behalf Of Rich = M Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 12:37 PM = Geez, the more I hear about this thing, the more I'm becoming = convinced that my little IR2 is the machine for me. Like others, I = like most of my beans a bit darker than the norm-- somewhere around a = FC+ to Vienna. I can do about 1/4 pound at this level in my IR2 pretty = easily. I personally don't see the advantage to buying a machine in = which I can POSSIBLY do 1/2 pound and MAYBE get to the level of roast = I like (sorry to all you purists who find Vienna a bit lowbrow). Add = to that the fact that visibility is suspect just makes me think I = might stick with the less expensive IR2. Our host, on many occasions, = has reminded us that sight and smell should be the primary criteria = when roasting and this machine seems to be a bit lacking in that = respect.
= IMHO, it seems like a nice machine for a select few but not one = that will appeal to the masses with their varying degrees of = taste.   = --Apple-Mail-3-404157181--

17) From: miKe mcKoffee
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Rich,
Ok, since you challenged me to the duel etiquette says I have choice of
weapons. Make it wet noodles at 2 paces:-)
miKe

18) From: Rich M
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OK, but they have to be shell noodles-- you could put somebody's eye  
out with those long ones:-)
On Jun 24, 2007, at 5:11 PM, miKe mcKoffee wrote:
<Snip>
--Apple-Mail-4-405398151
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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OK, but they have to be shell noodles-- you could put somebody's eye out with those long ones:-)
On Jun 24, 2007, at 5:11 PM, miKe mcKoffee wrote:
Rich, Ok, since you challenged me to the duel etiquette says I have choice of weapons. Make it wet noodles at 2 paces:-) miKe --Apple-Mail-4-405398151--

19) From: Justin Marquez
I, too, am giving it serious consideration at $300 for a 1/2 to 1# roaster.
I *never* do french OR  vienna roast on purpose!
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
On 6/24/07, Rich  wrote:
<Snip>

20) From: Cameron Forde
Hi John,
From reading Tom's review it seems like his main concerns with the
Behmor are lack of effective cooling (like the Gene), lack of roast
control (on the fly or programmed) and other points that have less to
do with the actual roaster (smokeless hype, name choice, Ronco).  I
gather from what you posted here that there is a bit more roast
control for those who take the time to get to know how the machine
runs.  So what is the story on the cooling?  How long does it take for
a FC roast to cool if you open the door as suggested in the manual?
How hard is it to remove the drum while it is hot for external
cooling?
I'm also interested in your cocoa bean roasting.  I took a tour of the
Scharfenberger factory in Berkeley a few years ago and asked them
about how they roast their beans.  The guy giving the tour told me
that there is only one way to roast cocoa beans, but I wasn't sure
that he really knew what he was talking about.  So what can you tell
us about roasting cocoa?
Cameron
On 6/24/07, Alchemist John  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
ceforde

21) From: Alchemist John
Let's see.  Yes, there is a bit more control.  It will probably fall 
solidly into the sharing of profiles (14 oz of IMV on p3 for 9 
minutes, extended to 18 minutes) for instance.  Cooling - the two 
roasts I let cool completely like the manual suggests (closed door, 
12 minutes) changed the cup too much for me.  The cooling was too 
long.  Even just opening the door was too long for me - 6 
minutes?.  I just put my roaster gloves on and dump them into my 
cooling setup.  That is very easy.
Cocoa bean.  Pardon me while I snicker about scharfenberger.  That is 
like saying there is one way to roast coffee.  Could not be further 
from the truth.  Then again, someone from *$ might say the same 
things and personally I find SB (hrm, they both have SB for 
abbreviations....;) overroasted.  Anyway, that was veering.  Where as 
the Behmor is going to take some community sussing out for coffee, it 
is really showing to be turnkey for cocoa.  I load 2.5# into the drum 
(3/4 full) and that amount of mass keeps the profiles nicely in 
check/challenged for cocoa.  Cocoa roasts much cooler than 
coffee.  So far, all 5 profiles have been virtually perfect for 
cocoa.  At 2.5# each profile has brought the beans to cracking (the 
absolute longest you want to take cocoa) just under the maximum time.
What else do you want to know about either?
Joe had to call it smoke-less instead of smokeless for legal reasons.
Joe's name is Behm - Behmor seems rather inventive to me.
Ronco - hell of a distribution system, importing, warehousing and 
name recognition there.
At 22:10 6/24/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

22) From: Vicki Smith
Is the chaff removal linked to the cooling cycle, John? I know that 
cooling the beans inside, if chaff removal is part of it, is problematic 
for me unless I do the shop vac/pail thing.
Chances are I won't buy the roaster, but only because the bread 
machine/heat gun system I use now meets my needs. It shouldn't, as it 
involves time in my unheated garage when it is waaay too cold for most 
folks, but, it seems to anyway. It helps that we have great summers.
vicki
Alchemist John wrote:
<Snip>

23) From: Cameron Forde
Hi John,
Thanks for the info on the Behmor.  Twelve minutes seems quite long,
but most people could probably live with 6 (and those that can't can
dump).
That is interesting about cocoa roasting.  What the SB guy said hadn't
seemed right and I'm glad to hear that roasting cocoa is much like
roasting coffee (at lower temp).  Somehow, the fact that there is more
skill involved is reassuring.  So how far does the analogy go?  Do you
roast according to the bean or according to origin? Do you do blend
different roast levels of the same bean when making chocolate?
I would still recommend the Scharfenberger tour for those that are
interested.  They pass around nibs and show the machines that they
use.  Just don't expect to learn how to make chocolate at home.
Cameron
On 6/25/07, Alchemist John  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
ceforde

24) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
Hi John,
 From reading Tom's review it seems like his main concerns with the
Behmor are lack of effective cooling (like the Gene), lack of roast
control (on the fly or programmed) and other points that have less to
do with the actual roaster (smokeless hype, name choice, Ronco).  I
gather from what you posted here that there is a bit more roast
control for those who take the time to get to know how the machine
runs.  So what is the story on the cooling?  How long does it take for
a FC roast to cool if you open the door as suggested in the manual?
How hard is it to remove the drum while it is hot for external
cooling?
Hi all - just catching up on this Behmor 1600 thread. Thanks A.J. for 
posting some good info. I played around with it again this weekend. 
The changes in the production model are not a dramatic departure from 
the one I am testing, so it looks like I can go ahead with my cup 
testing of the profiles in comparison with the other machines. Let me 
reiterate: the page I made is focused on my concerns about peripheral 
things and not really focused much on the roaster. That link was only 
posted to this list, once, and is more of a homeroast post than a web 
page. before i make any "public" comments, there would be heavy 
editing of that page. I think Joe can accept that no roaster is 
perfect, and that his has positive and negative qualities that we 
each judge against our expectations and demands. Effective cooling is 
an issue with most drum roasters. HotTop does the right thing, but it 
adds considerably to the cost of the machine; to cool outside of the 
roast environment. The programs on the Behmor are a bit odd, and what 
they control is odd, but I think it will work for the majority of 
cases. Why do I say odd? well, they are a bit inverted: normally we 
want to use more heat early in the roast to get the coffee through 
the "drying out" stages rapidly and then taper off to extend the time 
between 1st crack and 2nd crack to provide a more controlled finish, 
and perform the final "roast development" of the coffee slowly. 
(Sure, you can cook coffee way too fast early on, resulting in 
scorched, skunky or biscuity roast tastes, but not with a 110v home 
roaster doing 1/2 lb to 1 lb - if we got to the point where a home 
drum roaster could hit 1st crack in under 8 minutes, we might want to 
start talking about rapid development of the early roast stage, but 
otherwise it is a fairly moot point). Anyway, I feel that the 
interface, and the programs are acceptable, and Alchemist points out 
an interesting way to alter the results: adding time to a roast will 
add it to the final roast stage at full power. I did not realise 
that, and am going to play around with it later today. I mean, in the 
end the fact that this roaster does not rely on temperature sensing 
in terms of programming might end up being a strength. It makes it 
more of a basic machine and it has been said that adding a simple 
dimmer switch might (emphasis on MIGHT) allow for some more fluid, 
user-input in terms of heat control. I need to check this out for 
myself, but this might "fix" the way these preset programs finish 
(i.e. you can manually taper off the heat after 1st crack while the 
roaster "thinks" it is sending 100% power to the heating element. If 
not a dimmer, maybe a variac. Is PID control more of a possibility 
here??? Dunno...
One issue I would like to resolve before offering the machine: how 
will it be influenced by low ambient temperatures. I feel this 
machine will NOT end up being a kitchen-countertop appliance in most 
households. If people have to set up in the garage to roast, how will 
the roast be influenced? For better or worse, California in summer is 
not a great place to test variable ambient temperatures!
I am beginning to get more comfortable with the Ronco thing. The main 
aspect, maybe the only aspect, that I care about with them is 
support: will they back up defective machines, will they readily 
supply parts. We have suppliers that are so easy to work with (ie, if 
we dont have a unit or a part they TRUST us that we are not making up 
a story about a customer receiving a broken or defective machine, and 
they ship it direct, asap) and others who seem to suspect us and 
everyone else of deceiving them. Its really hard to deal with the 
later. And if customers call direct to Ronco with an issue, are they 
going to be solicited to buy spray on hair or a ronco rotisserie? I'm 
kidding. In fact, Joe is probably the smartest guy on the planet for 
handing off all the day to day headaches to Ronco. Other things about 
the machine that I was unsure about are starting to make sense to me: 
the drum construction and material, etc. In general, I have never had 
a bad comment about the solid chasis, motor, etc. No debate there.
Tom
--
                   "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
            Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting  -  Tom & Maria
                      http://www.sweetmarias.com                Thompson Owen george_at_sweetmarias.com
     Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
             phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom_at_sweetmarias.com


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