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Topic: Cold brewing coffee (27 msgs / 544 lines)
1) From: Thbull
Morning,
I'm interested in trying the cold brew process and wonder what
experience you all have had with this? I've read that you need to use
some Robusta beans when brewing this way; not sure if they used fresh
roasted Arabica or not.
Looking forward to your insight,
thbull

2) From: Randall Nortman
On Tue, Jun 26, 2007 at 08:36:02AM -0500, Thbull wrote:
<Snip>
I did this for a while a few years ago.  I always used 100% arabica.
It produces very inoffensive coffee, which is what your average
non-connoisseur coffee drinker is after.  It's not going to pull out
subtle flavors or origin character, though, and brightness tends to be
completely lost.  One thing that is not completely lost is roast
flavors; if you cold-brew charcoal, you will taste it.
This is the most common brewing method I encountered while in South
America.  Your typical hotel or restaurant breakfast will include a
small pitcher of cold-brewed coffee concentrate (cafe fuerte - "strong
coffee"), a pitcher of hot water, and a pitcher of milk.  You mix your
own coffee however you like it.
I must say, it is an extremely easy and convenient way to make coffee.
There is no simpler method in the morning than to pull some
concentrate out of the refrigerator, add water/milk, and stick it in
the microwave if you want it hot, or if it's summer just drink it
cold.  It tastes much better than bad coffee, especially if made with
decent beans -- I would much rather have this than typical diner
coffee that's made from stale pre-ground robusta and has been sitting
in a carafe on a hot plate for 30 minutes.  Like I said, the cold brew
method creates very inoffensive coffee.  But it's never going to make
great coffee.
You don't need to buy the official "Toddy" brewing system, though I
was given one as a gift and that's what I used for a while.  It works
well.  But you can steep the gounds in whatever container you like,
and then you just need a way to filter it.  The sock method probably
works.  I have heard of people using the Aeropress to make a similar
sort of concentrate, to be kept in the fridge and used as needed.
This strikes me as more trouble, especially for making a lot at once,
but it probably produces better coffee.

3) From: Tim TenClay
I've used the toddy maker and found it to be a pleasant change -
particularly for cold drinks during the summer.  Randall called it an
"inoffensive" coffee he's correct.  It's mild, smooth and devoid of
almost all acidity.  I don't make it very often, but it certainly is
convenient for traveling.  I've taken some of the "extract" along with
me on a couple of occasions - most places have access to hot water.
Any roast you like for drip should work fine.  My inkling would be
that you won't want to go much past the beginning of second, though --
the roast may be to brittle to be pleasant cold-brewed... does that
make sense?
Now that you mention it, I might pull out my toddy maker and make some
up this week. :-)
Grace and Peace,
  `tim
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4) From: Vince Doss
Well, I am not sure if this comes under what you consider cold brew, but
around 10 years ago, I used to frequent a cafe in Ohio called Cafe Europa (
I new nothing of roasting then, just an espresso junkie with a steam
toy). The owner sold a drink called a  Toddy and it was cold
coffee. It was not recommended to be consumed straight but with (your
combination of milk/cream/sugar). He said this would light your world up! MY
GOD was he right! I was really interested in it so he explained how he made
it. He also roasted his own coffee, but I digress. He took a cloth cotton
filter like the kind that fit in a big Urn coffee maker and filled it with a
ratio of 1lb/gal of espresso grind coffee. He used his espresso blend which
I guess makes sense since the goal, whether stated or not, was caffeine
extraction. He used a 5 gallon bucket and filled it with 3 gallons of
filtered water and set the coffee on an inverted stainless steel basket like
the kind you use to steam veggies with so the coffee sits off of the bottom.
He would let it sit in a cool place over night. He kept the coffee in gallon
jugs in the fridge and I guess it was a huge seller especially in summer. It
just kicked ass with some Half-n-half and sugar over ice...mabe a little
chocolate syrup...but make no mistake, it was quite bitter straight-up.
...I tried this a couple years ago using a fermenter bucket purchased from a
brewer's supply store which had a hole in the lid for an air lock and
a spigot at the bottom to drain it. I used an aquarium pump to run a hose
through the lid to agitate the water, not sure if this was necessary but the
results were the same,  supercharger caffeine beverage. I am sure there are
easier, smaller scale ways of doing this but I always overdo stuff!
Vince
On 6/26/07, Thbull  wrote:
<Snip>

5) From: Justin Marquez
1#/Gal = 454 gr / 128 Fl .Oz. =  3.5 gr/ounce
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
On 6/26/07, Vince Doss  wrote:
<Snip>

6) From: Dan Bollinger
My neighbor has been cold brewing for years. Mostly to escape bitter, brewed 
coffee. He buys cheap coffee, all Robusta, so I can somewhat understand his 
thinking. I've never had any of his coffee. He comes over once in awhile and has 
a capp.  He knows I roast coffee, but has never asked for any beans to cold 
brew. I'm guessing that he is happy with his method.
Dan

7) From: stereoplegic
snipr.com/cuptoddy
i use the 1lb coffee/gallon water ratio, both divided by 5 (so it fits 
in the cup, i use 32oz Taco Bell cups). thats roughly 3.5oz 
coffee/25.5oz water. i generally use coffee that's fairly low in acidity 
to begin with, since it gets muted anyway. chocolatey coffees do well as 
toddy. espresso blends too. i NEVER use robusta. the writer of the 
article says "overnight" and that works, but more specifically i like 
12-24hrs. also, i like a very coarse grind (my French press grind, which 
I'm guessing is closer to Brett's than miKe's). fills a 20oz bottle 
(actually a little more, but you want to toss the last little bit down 
the sink, as some fines will make their way into the resulting brew), 
which i leave in the fridge. btw, i've never had a toddy (served hot or 
cold) that i liked better than hot brewed coffee (served hot or cold) 
but the lingering finish is great for frappes-here's my recipe for a 24oz:
6oz toddy
3/8 cup Ghirardelli Frappe Classico (Classic White flavor, not Double 
Chocolate)
20oz ice
Ghirardelli Barista Chocolate Sauce to taste (i usually go without, but 
my girlfriend likes "mocha" frappes)
blend until desired consistency (for me almost completely liquified)
danbollinger wrote:
<Snip>

8) From: stereoplegic
oops! forgot, there's also 2oz milk in that recipe (whole for me, 2% for 
her)
stereoplegic wrote:
<Snip>

9) From: Brett Mason
You've provi8ded a great link on INeedCoffee for making a Toddy system
(think I will!)
Thanks also for the vote of conf on my presspot grind....  I am certain that
MikeM's works as well...
Brett
On 6/26/07, stereoplegic  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

10) From: stereoplegic
thanks. i'm not knocking miKe's press grind at all, in fact i get great 
shots from his tamping technique (i think). i just like to minimize the 
chance of fines getting through the screen. i like a little mud in my 
press cup, just enough for a chocolate/cocoa-esqe finish, but that's it. 
same w/ metal drip filters.
back to the topic at hand, follow the article's advice and make as many 
holes as possible (i just used one of those cheap little thumb tacks w/ 
the colored plastic top hat-"push pin" i think it's called-makes the 
perfect size holes). since the bottom middle of my Taco Bell cup is 
higher than the outer rim of the bottom, i just made holes on the rim 
(like shown in the article). also, i use the black bakelite top (of the 
body, not the clear lid that most people scrap for soupcan chimney or 
bake a round tube) of a disected air popcorn popper instead of the 
cardboard shown in the link (more permanent and the hole is the perfect 
size to hold the inner cup for straining). another black bakelite top 
sits (upside down) under the bottom cup for balance (don't want it to 
spill on my counter and floor when i walk away to wait while it drains, 
the top bakelite popper piece is heavy).
homeroast wrote:
<Snip>

11) From: Dave Ehrenkranz
My wife prefers her cold brew concentrate to my freshly ground and  
brewed coffee. I have been roasting beans for her which we use to  
make her concentrate. We use a Toddy that we have had for years and  
it is important to use a coarse grind otherwise the filter gets  
clogged and it take forever to drain. About the only time I use her  
cold brew is for iced coffees. Last summer I compared making iced  
coffee from her concentrate versus freshly ground and brewed coffee.  
Both are good but the fresh brewed had subtle tastes and aromas that  
are not present in the concentrate.
But as others have said the concentrate is extremely convenient and  
mild. And it is extremely smooth but still has all the caffeine.
Funny story, a few summers ago we made my daughter-in-law  coffee  
from the concentrate. She liked the coffee and once she tried making  
some for herself. She didn't realize we only used a small amount of  
the concentrate for a cup of coffee. She drank a cup of the  
concentrate without diluting it. Not surprisingly she could not get  
to sleep that night.
dave
On Jun 26, 2007, at 7:17 AM, Tim TenClay wrote:
<Snip>

12) From: Paul Goelz
At 11:15 PM 6/26/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>
Several places around here have coffee machines that dispense 
WONDERFUL coffee.  I like low acidity coffee and this stuff is the 
best I have ever had.  All flavor, no bite.  Almost like a dessert 
coffee.  And NOTHING like you would expect from a machine.  Turns out 
that the machines are from a local wholesale food distributer (GFS) 
and they use a liquid concentrate that is delivered frozen and kept 
refrigerated by the machine.  I don't know how it is brewed, but it 
is served like toddy coffee.  I would have a machine in the house but 
the machine costs about $2K and the coffee is about $150/bag.  Not 
sure what the shelf life is.
Interestingly, the first place where we discovered it is in a hotel 
where we have an annual music weekend party.  The second place is a 
local hardware store.  The hotel coffee is a bit better than the 
hardware store.  I wonder if they go through it a bit faster.
Paul
Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI
paul at pgoelz dot comhttp://www.pgoelz.com

13) From: Dan Bollinger
I believe there are espresso machines that use concentrate, too. Judging from 
the lousy espresso I've had from untrained baristas I would probably be better 
tasting. I doubt if the concentrate includes crema, but then I'm not getting 
that anyway.  Except at home, of course!
Dan

14) From: miKe mcKoffee
There are indeed (faux) espresso machines that use concentrates. I.E. push
button self service on demand espresso/cappuccino machines. They do NOT
produce a product remotely resembling a good espresso based beverage. Even
run of the mill "Joe & Jane Average" milk babies say they aren't even close
to a decent "real" espresso beverage. Based on comments from customers about
the Charbucks faux machine in their break room compared to drinks I was
making for them. I did not try the Charbuck machine's liquid product for
myself however, not a masochist.
The barista training issue (and related expense) is of course why Charbucks
switched to super-automatics. While potential best shot isn't nearly as good
as from a skilled barista the potential for terrible shots is far less than
from a lousy barista. IMO and for the record "when fresh" Charbucks Northern
Italian style dark espresso roasts CAN actually produce a quite decent shot.
With the caveat the barista damn well needs to know what they're doing.
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
<Snip>

15) From: stereoplegic
pgoelz wrote:
<Snip>
most sources have told me toddy lasts for 2wks refrigerated. not sure 
about frozen. i've made frappes with toddy that had been in the fridge 
for 3wks and they tasted just fine.

16) From: raymanowen
"It tastes much better than bad coffee-"
The slogan I hope never applies to my worst gunk -ro
On 6/26/07, Randall Nortman  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976

17) From: Dave Ehrenkranz
We have definitely had our concentrate last more than 2 weeks. I  
don't keep track but I would guess I roast coffee for my wife (who  
uses the concentrate) roughly once a month. It should keep  
"indefinitely" when frozen into ice cubes.
dave
On Jun 27, 2007, at 7:19 PM, stereoplegic wrote:
<Snip>

18) From: stereoplegic
frozen and bagged perhaps, but wouldn't a tray of toddy ice cubes be 
subject to freezer burn?
daveehr wrote:
<Snip>

19) From: Dave Ehrenkranz
yeah it would but I am not sure what freezer burn means in this case?  
I know that old ice cubes taste "stale" or do they?
dave
On Jun 27, 2007, at 8:20 PM, stereoplegic wrote:
<Snip>

20) From: stereoplegic
wouldn't know. i fill them, my girlfriend uses them, i fill them again.
daveehr wrote:
<Snip>

21) From: Starfinder Stanley
Funny, I was just thinking about querying the list about cold brewed coffee
this morning....
I've done it, and to be honest was quite surprised at how tasty it is.  I
can't imagine what kind of store-bought equipment they convinced you you'd
need to do it ---I just grind a rather coarse grind of a large volume of
beans, dump it into a sealable bucket, pour in the cold water (I can't
recall the proper volume, it was either 1:1 or twice as much water as
grinds), cover, and let sit for 12-24 hours or so.  I give a swirl every now
and again, and ultimately filter the stuff through a gold filter.  I
wouldn't use fabric or paper filters, as they'll absorb some of the oils and
rob you of flavor.  Yields nice concentrated stuff, great for iced coffee
with a shot of cream and no worries about ice dilution.  Great for those
summer music festival weekends, or car camping when it's hot hot hot and you
don't want to mess with a stove....
...Starfinder
On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Ryan M. Ward 

22) From: Allon Stern
On Dec 28, 2009, at 3:33 PM, Starfinder Stanley   
wrote:
<Snip>
I use this method for making coffee ice cream. I use a lb of coarse  
ground coffee in one gallon of milk/cream. No dilution :-)
Let it sit in the fridge overnight, then filter through cheesecloth. A  
little xanthan gum and lecithin (optional, but really improves the  
melting qualities and texture), sugar, and turn into ice cream with  
your favorite method (I like LN2, but it has gotten quite expensive of  
late)
-
allon
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23) From: Joseph Robertson
So simple yet so yummy. Kind of reminded me making sun tea.
JoeR
On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 12:33 PM, Starfinder Stanley wrote:
<Snip>
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24) From: Starfinder Stanley
Been wanting to try the liquid nitrogen method forever, but the dewars are
prohibitively expensive and a cool way to make ice cream doesn't quite
justify it....  I usually use a few shots of espresso, I'll try the cold
brewed approach next time.  Do you find that the dairy medium extracts as
well as straight water?  I usually use heavy cream, eggs, whey protein,
calcium caseinate, and liquid stevia (I don't eat sugar).  Haven't tried
lecithin....
On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 12:56 PM, Allon Stern  wrote:
<Snip>
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25) From: Ryan M. Ward
I agree with you, this method is so simple I don't think you need to purchase anything special other than a filter(It was a gift that I never requested- or even knew about, but was very happy to receive!). 
It's good to know that you have had success with a gold filter, I imagine using the gold filter instead of the cotton one it comes with would produce a richer flavor.
I also find it interesting that you let it sit for 12 to 24 hours with good results, this is double what I have been doing for the last few days. Next batch I will leaving it longer and see how it goes.
Hmmm, now that I think about it, I could probably just throw everything into my french press, let it sit for 12-24 hours and then pour out then end product, this would subtract out several layers of complexity, make clean up easy, and you get the advantage of a metal filter. This would be easier than using the contraption I got(Not that it is THAT complicated but what they heck).
Thanks for the tips
Ryan M. Ward
*Note: This email was sent from a computer running Ubuntu Linux 8.04 (Hardy Heron)http://www.ubuntu.com<Snip>
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26) From: Starfinder Stanley
I have done almost exactly that at music fests: pour from the bucket into
the french press, press it, pour off the supernatant, repeat....
On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 3:52 PM, Ryan M. Ward
wrote:
<Snip>
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27) From: Allon Stern
On Dec 28, 2009, at 6:38 PM, Starfinder Stanley   
wrote:
<Snip>
Depends on what you mean by "as well as." I'm sure it extracts  
DIFFERENTLY, but the proof is in the pudding...err...ice cream. I've  
always wondered how the fat-heavy environment alters the extraction  
process. But it does make yummy ice cream.
<Snip>
How does Stevia work? Sugar, in ice cream, plays an important  
structural role; as more ice crystals freeze out, the sugar  
concentration in the unfrozen portion increases, depressing it's  
freezing point. This gives ice cream scoopability.
And egg yolks are rich in lecithin.
-
allon
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