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Topic: OT "GRAMMAR Wars" Was: Good Espresso Near Joplin, Missouri? (17 msgs / 852 lines)
1) From: Justin Marquez
I guess being a Mississippi native, educated as an engineer there, and
living in Louisiana then later in Texas all works against my grammar
skills.  It is probably a small miracle that I can communicate at all.
I just don't see it.
If there are LESS choices now - how is that really any different than FEWER
choices? (Does having "FEWER choices"  'suck' any worse than having "LESS
choices"?)
Is "LESS" used to indicate a diminishment of a single "thing", i.e. "There
is less coffee in the can today than yesterday" as opposed to "FEWER" being
used to indicate a lower number of items?  Such as in the difference between
an analog instrument reading lower values ("LESS") versus a digital counter
of widgets reading a lower count ("FEWER") ?
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
On 7/10/07, Justin Nevins  wrote:
<Snip>

2) From: Justin Nevins
Yeah, that's the difference. Here is a good link illustrating when to use
each of them:http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutgrammar/lessfewer?view=ukThe first part pretty much sums it up: *Less* means 'not as much'.
*Fewer*means 'not as many'.
Justin Nevins
On 7/10/07, Justin Marquez  wrote:
<Snip>

3) From: Sandy Andina
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It can also be correct to say "less choice," if one is referring to a  
reduced degree of the ability to choose in general, rather than to  
having a lower number of alternatives from which to choose.  "Less  
choices," however, is incorrect usage.
On Jul 10, 2007, at 3:19 PM, Justin Nevins wrote:
<Snip>
www.sandyandina.com
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
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It can also be correct to say =
"less choice," if one is referring to a reduced degree of the ability to =
choose in general, rather than to having a lower number of alternatives =
from which to choose.  "Less choices," however, is incorrect =
usage.
On Jul 10, 2007, at 3:19 PM, Justin Nevins =
wrote:
Yeah, that's the difference. Here is a good link = illustrating when to use each of them: http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutgrammar/lessfew=er?view=uk The first part pretty much sums it up: = Less means 'not as much'. Fewer means 'not as = many'. Sandy Andina = = --Apple-Mail-17--366087829--

4) From: Barry Luterman
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
My guideline has always use fewer if the entity can be actually counted. =
Less if the entity can not be counted. For example there are less grains =
of sand on the beaches in Kansas than there are in Hawaii. But there are =
fewer sunny days in Kansas than Hawaii.

5) From: Sandy Andina
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Close but no cigar--A unit comprising an  entity can technically be  
counted even if in all practicality that would take an eternity, and  
if referring to units ("grains of sand") "fewer" is still the correct  
usage; if referring to the commodity as a substance ("sand") then  
"less" is proper.  For example, there are fewer grains of sand on the  
beaches of Kansas than there are in Hawaii, so there is less sand on  
the beaches of Kansas than there is in Hawaii.  "Are" usually goes  
hand in hand with "fewer," and "is" with "less."
On Jul 10, 2007, at 4:01 PM, Barry Luterman wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
www.sandyandina.com
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
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Close but no cigar--A unit =
comprising an  entity can technically be counted even if in all =
practicality that would take an eternity, and if referring to units =
("grains of sand") "fewer" is still the correct usage; if referring to =
the commodity as a substance ("sand") then "less" is proper.  For =
example, there are fewer grains of sand on the beaches of Kansas than =
there are in Hawaii, so there is less sand on the beaches of Kansas than =
there is in Hawaii.  "Are" usually goes hand in hand with "fewer," and =
"is" with "less."
On Jul 10, 2007, at = 4:01 PM, Barry Luterman wrote:
My guideline has always = use fewer if the entity can be actually counted. Less if the entity can = not be counted. For example there are less grains of sand on the beaches = in Kansas than there are in Hawaii. But there are fewer sunny days in = Kansas than Hawaii.----- Original = Message -----From: Sandy = AndinaTo: homeroastSent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 10:32 AMSubject: Re: +OT "GRAMMAR Wars" Was: Good Espresso Near Joplin, = Missouri? It can also be correct to say "less = choice," if one is referring to a reduced degree of the ability to = choose in general, rather than to having a lower number of alternatives = from which to choose.  "Less choices," however, is incorrect = usage. On Jul 10, 2007, at 3:19 PM, Justin Nevins = wrote:
Yeah, that's the difference. Here is a good link illustrating = when to use each of them:

The first part pretty much sums it up: Less means 'not as much'. means 'not as many'.
Sandy Andina
www.sandyandina.comwww.myspace.com/sandyandina

<= BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"> = Sandy = Andinawww.sandyandina.comwww.myspace.com/sandyandina=

= = --Apple-Mail-20--362979071--

6) From: Robert Pearce
This is a multipart message in MIME format.
With all due respect, you've all lost your collective minds.
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Sandy Andina
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 2:24 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +OT "GRAMMAR Wars" Was: Good Espresso Near Joplin, Missouri?
Close but no cigar--A unit comprising an  entity can technically be counted
even if in all practicality that would take an eternity, and if referring to
units ("grains of sand") "fewer" is still the correct usage; if referring to
the commodity as a substance ("sand") then "less" is proper.  For example,
there are fewer grains of sand on the beaches of Kansas than there are in
Hawaii, so there is less sand on the beaches of Kansas than there is in
Hawaii.  "Are" usually goes hand in hand with "fewer," and "is" with "less."
On Jul 10, 2007, at 4:01 PM, Barry Luterman wrote:
My guideline has always use fewer if the entity can be actually counted.
Less if the entity can not be counted. For example there are less grains of
sand on the beaches in Kansas than there are in Hawaii. But there are fewer
sunny days in Kansas than Hawaii.

7) From: miKe mcKoffee
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
While not involved in the latest grammar grumblings of all the things I've
lost, I miss my mind the most... I do hope The Collective releases it
soon:-)
 
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/ 
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Robert Pearce
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 3:49 PM
With all due respect, you've all lost your collective minds.

8) From: Justin Marquez
Does that mean that fewer of us have less mental capability now?
While we are on grammar and such... when the airlines report that two plane=
s
had a "near miss" does that really mean they hit?
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
On 7/10/07, Robert Pearce  wrote:
<Snip>

9) From: David Rolenc
*Jefe *: We have many beautiful 
pinatas for your birthday celebration, each one filled with little 
surprises!
*El Guapo *: How many pinatas?
*Jefe *: Many pinatas, many!
*El Guapo *: Jefe, would you say I 
have a plethora of pinatas?
*Jefe *: A what?
*El Guapo *: A *plethora*.
*Jefe *: Oh yes, El Guapo. You have 
a plethora.
*El Guapo *: Jefe, what is a plethora?
*Jefe *: Why, El Guapo?
*El Guapo *: Well, you just told me 
that I had a plethora, and I would just like to know if you know what it 
means to have a plethora. I would not like to think that someone would 
tell someone else he has a plethora, and then find out that that person 
has *no idea* what it means to have a plethora.
*Jefe *: El Guapo, I know that I, 
Jefe, do not have your superior intellect and education, but could it be 
that once again, you are angry at something else, and are looking to 
take it out on me?
-- Three Amigos
Robert Yoder wrote:
<Snip>

10) From: Edward Rasmussen
Gawd...I hope when you people get the proper usage and grammer figured
out that everybody on the list will chime in and tell us all what pens
they will be using to write their proper grammer with.  Sheesh.
Ed 
<Snip>
minds...
<Snip>

11) From: Brian Kamnetz
On 7/11/07, Robert Yoder  wrote:
<Snip>
Robert,
I learned the same thing in high school. Since then I have seen another
point of view:
Merriam-Webster notes, "Recent criticism of the use of myriad as a noun,
both in the plural form *myriads* and in the phrase *a myriad of*, seems to
reflect a mistaken belief that the word was originally and is still properly
only an adjective.... however, the noun is in fact the older form, dating to
the 16th century. The noun *myriad* has appeared in the works of such
writers as Milton (plural *myriads*) and Thoreau (*a myriad of*), and it
continues to occur frequently in reputable English. There is no reason to
avoid it."[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MyriadBrian

12) From: Justin Marquez
Can't anyone modify a Wikipedia entry?
Probably edited to the  current entry contents by a disgruntled former
student.
heheheh
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
On 7/11/07, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
<Snip>
--

13) From: miKe mcKoffee
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Indeed, I have a myriad of different greens in my stash...roasted halves of
Sumatra Gayo Tannah Tinggi & Kochere Yirgacheffe earlier today. Think I'll
go pick from my myriad of Kona greens within my larger myriad of greens to
roast some more. I'll need to use a different profile for the Kona than the
Gayo or Kochere from the myriad of profiles I've developed. But maybe not a
Kona, a myriad of songs are being sung by a myriad of greens within the
stash of a myriad of different greens. But luckily not a real cachophony
since fewer than all are singing today from within the myriad of greens. Or
maybe a Kona from the myriad of Konas and also harken to another from the
myriad of the other songs beckoning my ear's attention.
 
For the record, vacuum sealing greens in triple ply FoodSaver bags does not
muffle the myriad songs of the myriad of singing greens.
 
Ok English Major gurus, have at it!!! :-)
 
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/ 
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Brian Kamnetz
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 12:27 PM
On 7/11/07, Robert Yoder  wrote: 
"a myriad of" is incorrect.  Think of "myriad" as synonymous with "many".
robert yoder
Robert,
I learned the same thing in high school. Since then I have seen another
point of view:
Merriam-Webster notes, "Recent criticism of the use of myriad as a noun,
both in the plural form myriads and in the phrase a myriad of, seems to
reflect a mistaken belief that the word was originally and is still properly
only an adjective.... however, the noun is in fact the older form, dating to
the 16th century. The noun myriad has appeared in the works of such writers
as Milton (plural myriads) and Thoreau (a myriad of), and it continues to
occur frequently in reputable English. There is no reason to avoid it." [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MyriadBrian

14) From: Gail Shuford
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Not tis not!  See Robert's comment.
On Jul 11, 2007, at 10:12 AM, Robert Yoder wrote:
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Not tis not!  See Robert's =
comment.  
On Jul 11, 2007, at 10:12 AM, Robert Yoder =
wrote:

"a = myriad of" is incorrect.  Think of "myriad" as synonymous with = "many".

robert yoder

= From:  Gail Shuford <gshufy2u><= BR>Reply-To:  homeroast= s.com To:  homeroast= s.com Subject:  Re: +OT "GRAMMAR Wars" Was: Good = Espresso Near Joplin, Missouri? Date:  Wed, 11 Jul 2007 = 09:57:10 -0800 >Good point about the planes...Just happened to = see this subject pop   >up again and thought I would offer my = two cents:   I understand that >  "quantity", like less = than or equal to, greater than...etc, is   >supposed to be = used when and if quantitatively speaking; however we   >dont = generaly speak in quantitative terms, we perform = mathematical   >operations and functions with it and reference = it with the spoken >and  written word.  Now with the word = "fewer".  It all starts out >with a  "few",  or = several, in general terms, then proceeds to more >or less  than= , qualifying it for few-er (or less than what it >started = out  with)  If one increases the amount having started out = >with a few  (more than one but an undisclosed amount of = several), it >would then  become just "more".  "More = than" , of course, would be >the next level  above = "more".  This hiercharcy would be considered >qualitative = and  reference degree and intensity, be non-specific >without = inferring  mathematical operations, convergencs or = >divergences and a myriad of  other mathematical mumbo jumbo = we can >safely omit.   If someone  wanted to pay you = money for something >would you want a few dollars or  a = specific amount?  Would you be >satisfied with a "few" = dollars when  less is "about" what you would >get if you are = not specific!  - a  powerful tool when specifics are = >needed and outcomes are called for.   Think about this the = next time >you cross a bridge that isnt falling  down and be = thankful the >engineers got the plans right.  It = wasnt  almost right.  It was an >exactness that supports = the laws of math and  gravity.  Anything >LESS would have = compromised the integrity and  safety of the >structure.  I= t is fine to use non specific words if one  does not >care = what outcome results.   In the case of the near miss  below, I = >dont envision anyone being up in the air measuring the  distan= ce >between two planes either.  This is where a "little" = common  cents >(intentional play on word) will come in = handy. >On Jul 10, 2007, at 6:50 PM, Kevin Creason = wrote: > >On Jul 11, 2007, at 9:31 AM, Angelo = wrote: > >>The thing that drives me crazy is the Brits' = using a collective   >>noun with a plural verb = form. >>E.g., "Microsoft have announced another useless piece = of software,   >>today" >>Do they learn it that = way, or is it a mistake to them, = too?? >> >> >>>Does that mean that fewer = of us have less mental capability = now? >>> >>>While we are on grammar and such... = when the airlines report that   >>>two planes had a = "near miss" does that really mean they = hit? >> >> >> >> >> >&g= t;A young lady I know was a bit upset saying, "I was almost late = to   >>that event." >>I had to remind her that it = meant that she was on time... I guess   >>it's all in your = perspective... >> >> >> >>>Safe = Journeys and Sweet Music >>>Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, = TX) >>> >>> >>>On 7/10/07, Robert = Pearce   >>><<mailto:robert.pearce= >robert.pearce> = wrote: >>> >>>With all due respect, you've all = lost your collective = minds… >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>No virus found in this incoming = message. >>>Checked by AVG Free = Edition. >>>Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/893 = - Release Date:   >>>7/9/2007 5:22 = PM >> >><= BR>>>homeroast mailing list >>http://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast >>To change = your personal list settings (digest options, = vacations,   >>unsvbscribes) go to http://sweetmarias.com/= >>maillistinfo.html#personalsettings > >= >homeroast mailing = list >http://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast >To change your = personal list settings (digest options, vacations, >unsvbscribes) = go to >http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings
Missed= the show?  Watch videos of the Live Earth Concert on MSN. = homeroast mailing list = http://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast To change your = personal list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to = http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<= BR>= --Apple-Mail-1--280943800--

15) From: Sandy Andina
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On Jul 11, 2007, at 1:48 PM, Edward Rasmussen wrote:
<Snip>
Kelsey or Tracy Grammer?  (I'm sure you meant to type "grammar")
<Snip>
No, just a few of us--and we do that on the Fountain Pen Collecting  
listserv. (But we do talk about coffee there).
Sandy Andina
www.sandyandina.com
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
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On Jul 11, 2007, =
at 1:48 PM, Edward Rasmussen wrote:
Gawd...I hope when you people get the proper usage = and grammer figuredout = Kelsey or Tracy Grammer?  (I'm sure you meant = to type "grammar") that = everybody on the list will chime in and tell us all what pensthey will be using to write their proper grammer = with.  = Sheesh.No, just a few of us--and we do that on = the Fountain Pen Collecting listserv. (But we do talk about coffee = there). Sandy = Andinawww.sandyandina.comwww.myspace.com/sandyandina=

= = --Apple-Mail-27--280768208--

16) From: Gail Shuford
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Is this an ole dog with a new trick or a new dog with an ole tick?  
Please have another cup of coffee from your myriadic coffee cache.
On Jul 11, 2007, at 11:53 AM, miKe mcKoffee wrote:
<Snip>
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Is this an ole dog with a new =
trick or a new dog with an ole tick? Please have another cup of coffee =
from your myriadic coffee cache.  
On Jul 11, 2007, at =
11:53 AM, miKe mcKoffee wrote:
Indeed, I have a myriad of = different greens in my stash...roasted halves of Sumatra Gayo Tannah = Tinggi & Kochere Yirgacheffe earlier today. Think I'll go pick from = my myriad of Kona greens within my larger myriad of greens to roast some = more. I'll need to use a different profile for the Kona than the Gayo or = Kochere from the myriad of profiles I've developed. But maybe not a = Kona, a myriad of songs are being sung by a myriad of greens within the = stash of a myriad of different greens. But luckily not a real cachophony = since fewer than all are singing today from within the myriad of = greens. Or maybe a Kona from the myriad of Konas and also harken to = another from the myriad of the other songs beckoning my ear's = attention.   For the record, vacuum sealing greens in triple ply FoodSaver = bags does not muffle the myriad songs of the myriad of singing = greens.   Ok English Major gurus, have at it!!! :-) =  

Pacific Northwest Gathering VI http://home.comcast.ne=t/~mckona/PNWGVI.htm Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee URL to = Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc: http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimate= ly the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must first = not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment = found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone = before. Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archives http://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/

From: homeroast-admin [mailto:homeroast-adm= in] On Behalf Of Brian = Kamnetz Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 12:27 = PM On 7/11/07, Robert Yoder <robotyonder> = wrote:

"a myriad of" is incorrect.  Think of = "myriad" as synonymous with "many".

robert = yoder

Robert, I learned = the same thing in high school. Since then I have seen another point of = view: <begin quote> Merriam-Webster notes, "Recent = criticism of the use of myriad as a noun, both in the plural form = myriads and in the phrase a myriad of, seems to reflect = a mistaken belief that the word was originally and is still properly = only an adjective.... however, the noun is in fact the older form, = dating to the 16th century. The noun myriad has appeared in the = works of such writers as Milton (plural myriads) and Thoreau = (a myriad of), and it continues to occur frequently in = reputable English. There is no reason to avoid it." [1] <end quote> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/=Myriad Brian = --Apple-Mail-2--280610840--

17) From: Justin Marquez
Spelling! Now that's a whole other OT: thread!
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
On 7/11/07, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>
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