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Topic: stethoscope and 2nd crack (19 msgs / 927 lines)
1) From: Stephen Carey
Okay, don't laugh, this just might work.  What I would like to know 
is if anyone has tried this.  (I am off my "feeling sorry for myself" 
bit and into working with what I have).
We know that due to its noise hearing the 2nd crack with the IR2 is 
tough.  I am fairly sure, or, perhaps, just wanted to so much, that I 
heard the 2nd crack of my Rwanda bean.  Well, I did on my first roast 
of it - or I think I did.  Then I did not on the second roast of the 
same bean, sight variation to time (I remember, change one thing at a time).
Here is the oddball question, has anyone used a stethoscope held up 
against the glass chamber to listen for the 2nd crack?  I have an old 
stethoscope here and it works just fine.  I need to roast some beans 
later today or tomorrow.  I was wondering if I held the stethoscope 
up to the chamber would I be able to hear the 2nd crack as well as I 
do the 1st crack?  I may hear more motor noise or I may hear in the 
chamber quite well.
Anyone try this?  Results?  If not, I will let you know what I get, 
but I thought I would check before I risk my fingers as the 
stethoscope will surely heat up!!
Thank you,
Stephen

2) From: Gregg Talton
I've never used my stethoscope to her 2nd, but in my garage, I can hear 2nd
when I stand at the opposite wall and listen.  I know it's crazy but I hear
both cracks easily by standing a good distance away.  I look forward to
hearing the results... just be careful not to melt the diphragm.
Gregg T
On 7/28/07, Stephen Carey  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
They say such nice things about people at their funerals that it makes me
sad to realize that I'm going to miss mine by just a few days. - Garrison
Keillor

3) From: Edward Bourgeois
I visited a well known Roaster and saw a stethoscope hang next to
their roaster but I didn't inquire about it.
On 7/28/07, Stephen Carey  wrote:
<Snip>

4) From: Edward Bourgeois
Gregg Totally relate. When I pull out the popper for a small batch I
found standing a bit away and at the right height changes the sound a
lot.
On 7/28/07, Gregg Talton  wrote:
<Snip>

5) From: Beth Henkels
The sound that fluid makes in a person's lungs isn't that far off from what
a soft second crack would sound like.  You might have some trouble with the
sound of the motor coming through, or if there is any vibration on the
chamber (I'm not familiar with an IR2).  Honestly, with some beans I don't
hear second crack even with my relatively quiet modified popper.  All of
that said, I'd try the stethoscope and see what happens.  Good luck!
Beth

6) From: Aaron
Greg, I hear ya there,  and second crack too.   I think its because of 
the noise, oh I don't know the techie side of its, exact answer but  
maybe the shape of it, the waveform, because it's like a mini explosion 
or an impulse noise. it travels further or doesn't dissipate as quickly 
as the normal noise of the roaster, so further out, it will be higher 
amplitude than the other noises so you will hear it over the background 
noises.
I find with my I roast I hold my head almost next to the top of the 
roaster, near the vent (careful you dont put your ear in the hot air 
exhaust, it gets painful) and while I hear the 'roar of the engine' from 
the I roast's fan, I can also make out the 'snaps' buried in there too 
from the cracks.  tilting my head ever so slightly one way or the other 
seems to put me in a node perhaps or aims my earlobe to better channel 
the sound for optimum perception.   (then again im partially deaf 
anyways so do this for other reasons as well.. HUH???).
Then again if im a few feet away at the kitchen sink rinsing out the 
container that will hold the beans i can hear the cracks plenty well too....
Aaron

7) From: John Brown
you just might be able to,  i have used a mechanics stethoscope to hear 
bad bearings in very noisy places before
<Snip>

8) From: Barry Luterman
A stethoscope is essentially an amplifying device. However, it will do some 
frequency filtering. Second crack is a high frequency sound. Some where 
around 4k Hz. Most high frequency, noise induced hearing impairments, are up 
in the 3k to 4k range. Hence, most people who have high frequency hearing 
impairments will have difficulty hearing second crack no matter what roaster 
or amplifier is used. For a mild high frequency impairment a stethoscope  or 
moving about the roast area might work. For moderate, to moderately severe 
high frequency hearing impairments, filtering and amplifying those 
frequencies in the 3k to 4k range will be the only way( See previous posts 
on the use of resonators). For those with severe impairments, perhaps some 
of the people, on this list, with electronics  backgrounds, could devise a 
visual system (light comes on) when second crack frequencies become 
dominant.

9) From: Angelo
This subject has been addressed before. I have no recollection of my 
memory of the conclusion (do I sound like the Gonz?). However, there 
are audio programs which will give a spectrograph of the sounds being 
produced. By using various filters I imagine one could isolate the 
pops and crackles of second crack fairly easily and view it on the 
monitor as it is happening.....
A

10) From: Stephen Carey
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I don't have any hearing loss - just had them checked during a full 
physical very recently.  I just want to get a sense of what I am 
listening for - heck, I am fairly confident I heard it before - on 
one roast.  But, for me, this was more a question of would it even work.
I still count on my other senses, sight and smell, plus sound for 
first crack, plus the mechanics of it, temp. and heat (I can only 
control voltage with power chords and I don't really want to add a 
lot of variables at this time in my learning or just beginning phase).
I am still going to try it for the fun of it, but make sure I don't 
let it distract me from the roast itself, which is a true possibility.
At 02:33 PM 7/28/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>
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I don't have any hearing loss - just had them checked during
a full physical very recently.  I just want to get a sense of what I
am listening for - heck, I am fairly confident I heard it before - on one
roast.  But, for me, this was more a question of would it even
work.
I still count on my other senses, sight and smell, plus sound for first
crack, plus the mechanics of it, temp. and heat (I can only control
voltage with power chords and I don't really want to add a lot of
variables at this time in my learning or just beginning phase).
I am still going to try it for the fun of it, but make sure I don't let
it distract me from the roast itself, which is a true
possibility.
At 02:33 PM 7/28/2007, you wrote:
A stethoscope is essentially an
amplifying device. However, it will do some frequency filtering. Second
crack is a high frequency sound. Some where around 4k Hz. Most high
frequency, noise induced hearing impairments, are up in the 3k to 4k
range. Hence, most people who have high frequency hearing impairments
will have difficulty hearing second crack no matter what roaster or
amplifier is used. For a mild high frequency impairment a
stethoscope  or moving about the roast area might work. For
moderate, to moderately severe high frequency hearing impairments,
filtering and amplifying those frequencies in the 3k to 4k range will be
the only way( See previous posts on the use of resonators). For those
with severe impairments, perhaps some of the people, on this list, with
electronics  backgrounds, could devise a visual system (light comes
on) when second crack frequencies become dominant.

11) From: Barry Luterman
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Then the way around this problem is easy. Buy some UGH beans( $2.00 per =
pound) and run them through your roaster until they are burnt. You will =
hear and learn where 2nd crack is with confidence. Make sure you throw =
away the UGH beans after. Another advantage of this method is it will =
flavor your popper.

12) From: Stephen Carey
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Excellent idea, thank you.  I just have to remember what UGH beans 
are, but I have read about it in all I have been reading on the 
subject of roasting, from books to this list!  Thank you again.  I 
will still try the stethoscope for fun - the bet around here is that 
I will hear the air flow much better and the beans bouncing around 
very well and still won't know for sure what the second roast 
is.  And that I should just keep roasting and listening and I will 
hear it again.
At 03:37 PM 7/28/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>
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Excellent idea, thank you.  I just have to remember
what UGH beans are, but I have read about it in all I have been reading
on the subject of roasting, from books to this list!  Thank you
again.  I will still try the stethoscope for fun - the bet around
here is that I will hear the air flow much better and the beans bouncing
around very well and still won't know for sure what the second roast
is.  And that I should just keep roasting and listening and I will
hear it again.
At 03:37 PM 7/28/2007, you wrote:
Then the way
around this problem is easy. Buy some UGH beans( $2.00 per pound) and run
them through your roaster until they are burnt. You will hear and learn
where 2nd crack is with confidence. Make sure you throw away the UGH
beans after. Another advantage of this method is it will flavor your
popper.

13) From: Barry Luterman
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Tom sells them . Or if you want you can use some of your odds and ends =
you don't know what to do with. This way they will serve as a learning =
experience

14) From: Justin Marquez
On 7/28/07, Angelo  wrote:
<Snip>
different cracking sounds. That way you really could stop the roast at onset
of  2nd.
That non-recollection thing sounds closer to Hillary's answers on the
Whitewater investigation.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)

15) From: Angelo
That too... :-)
A
<Snip>

16) From: TERRY TITSWORTH
Hello Stephen,
Regarding the stethoscope, I purchased one of the inexpensive mechanics type
at a local parts store and I can now here the whir of the fan motor quite
distinctly. I am also able to clearly hear the rattle and clang of each
jointed part of the IR2 roaster. But I could not discern the sound of first
or second crack any clearer. I don't know if your medical style (assuming
that is the type you are referring to) will be any better since it too is a
metal to glass contact.
I thought That I might get a better or clearer sound if I was able to insert
the extension tube of the mechanic's stethoscope directly into the roast
chamber, but never went as far as to drill out the top to experiment.
But since you have the scope already it won't cost you anything to try it
out.
TerryT
On 7/28/07, Stephen Carey  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Start HOT and work your way Down...
Peppers AND Coffee.
[|:{O....[|:{U...
(I'm the tall guy in the middle)

17) From: stereoplegic
where's Dr. Michael? he and i (and others) discussed this a while back. 
remove the diaphragm and
1. no need to worry about it melting
2. you can hear things much more clearly (the roasting process doesn't 
sound muffled like it does w/ the diaphragm)
if i were still using an air popper (LOTS of fan noise), i'd probably be 
using my stethoscope. fortunately, an added benifit of the eWok/CO 
(slighly over 2lb batch capacity aside) is that it doesn't make much 
noise (the stirring arms are actually louder than the CO fan).
steve wrote:
<Snip>

18) From: Gregg Talton
 I was roasting a batch of Ethopian last night while talking to family on
the telephone.  As I was talkinig, I heard the sounds of first crack in the
earpiece loud a clear.  I asked my sister to hold a moment and held the
phone away from my ear and thee sound was faint.  So I adjusted  the
temperature on the Gene Cafe and moved on toward second ... which came
through over the telephone loud and clear a few minutes later. The phone is
a Uniden Cordless and seems to be perfect for hearing the roasting process.
I know it's a frequency thing and it has me thinking about playing with a
few of my son's toys that have microphones.  I'll update after playing this
weekend.
Gregg T
steve wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
They say such nice things about people at their funerals that it makes me
sad to realize that I'm going to miss mine by just a few days. - Garrison
Keillor

19) From: Stephen Carey
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I used it last night.  I put wooden clothes pins on it in case it got 
too hot.  I could hear everything quite well, however, for me, at 
this stage in just learning, it was too much to do at once.  I am 
trying to dial in on a roast and I wasn't paying attention to the 
color as much as I would have liked.
I think it will work with the IR2, but when I get more comfortable 
with roasting in general, more confident, believe it is okay to not 
make the best in the world for it will still be better than a canned 
coffee.  I will say I heard the first portion of the second crack 
better than before.  Now I want to concentrate on hearing it through 
the noise of the fans, I should be able to do so.  Does that make 
sense, not wanting to have so many things going on that I can't 
concentrate on the roast in total, just portions of it?
At 05:58 AM 8/3/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>
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I used it last night.  I put wooden clothes pins on it
in case it got too hot.  I could hear everything quite well,
however, for me, at this stage in just learning, it was too much to do at
once.  I am trying to dial in on a roast and I wasn't paying
attention to the color as much as I would have liked.
I think it will work with the IR2, but when I get more comfortable with
roasting in general, more confident, believe it is okay to not make the
best in the world for it will still be better than a canned coffee. 
I will say I heard the first portion of the second crack better than
before.  Now I want to concentrate on hearing it through the noise
of the fans, I should be able to do so.  Does that make sense, not
wanting to have so many things going on that I can't concentrate on the
roast in total, just portions of it?
At 05:58 AM 8/3/2007, you wrote:
I was roasting a batch of
Ethopian last night while talking to family on the telephone.  As I
was talkinig, I heard the sounds of first crack in the earpiece loud a
clear.  I asked my sister to hold a moment and held the phone away
from my ear and thee sound was faint.  So I adjusted  the
temperature on the Gene Cafe and moved on toward second ... which came
through over the telephone loud and clear a few minutes later. The phone
is a Uniden Cordless and seems to be perfect for hearing the roasting
process.  I know it's a frequency thing and it has me thinking about
playing with a few of my son's toys that have microphones.  I'll
update after playing this weekend. 
 
Gregg T
steve
wrote:
> Okay, don't laugh, this just might work.  What I would like
to know is 
> if anyone has tried this.  (I am off my "feeling sorry
for myself" bit
> and into working with what I have).
>
> We know that due to its noise hearing the 2nd crack with the IR2
is
> tough.  I am fairly sure, or, perhaps, just wanted to so
much, that I
> heard the 2nd crack of my Rwanda bean.  Well, I did on my
first roast
> of it - or I think I did.  Then I did not on the second
roast of the 
> same bean, sight variation to time (I remember, change one thing
at a
> time).
>
> Here is the oddball question, has anyone used a stethoscope held
up
> against the glass chamber to listen for the 2nd crack?  I
have an old 
> stethoscope here and it works just fine.  I need to roast
some beans
> later today or tomorrow.  I was wondering if I held the
stethoscope up
> to the chamber would I be able to hear the 2nd crack as well as
I do 
> the 1st crack?  I may hear more motor noise or I may hear
in the
> chamber quite well.
>
> Anyone try this?  Results?  If not, I will let you
know what I get,
> but I thought I would check before I risk my fingers as the
> stethoscope will surely heat up!!
>
> Thank you,
>
> Stephen
>
>
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-- 
They say such nice things about people at their funerals that it makes me
sad to realize that I'm going to miss mine by just a few days. - Garrison
Keillor 
--=====================_5146531==.ALT--


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