HomeRoast Digest


Topic: cream, sugar, and home roast (35 msgs / 1275 lines)
1) From: Stephen Carey
I am in a bit of a dilemma to which I think I know the answer and 
just want to see if I am on the right track.  A number of my friends 
who have now tasted better than canned coffee through my few roasts, 
plus gifts of coffee from a roaster in Costa Rica, has them thinking: 
what are they missing by using cream and sugar.
My guess, total guess, is that when they were young they smelled the 
flavor that almost any halfway decent canned coffee will give off, 
not the same as freshly roasted, but the imagination of flavor is 
still there.  They taste the canned stuff and find out it doesn't 
have the body of the aroma, it has a stale taste, which they now 
think coffee is supposed to have.
To fit in with the adults they try adding cream, sugar or both to 
their mugs.  This covers the bad flavor to a point, gives the coffee 
a sense of body and they think that is good coffee.
I didn't want to tell my friends how to drink coffee but they were 
truly disappointed that they couldn't taste what I was tasting it a 
sip of Rwanda coffee - citrus, then a kind of heavy semi-sweet 
chocolate flavor.  My suggestion was that rather than go cold turkey, 
which is always an option, they could slowly cut back and with each 
cup they would taste more of the coffee flavors - AS LONG AS THEY 
WENT TO A COFFEE SHOP, and not a chain shop.  They both are doing 
this.  One has cut out sugar completely and is way down on his FAKE 
cream (more chemicals).  The other only used cream, the real stuff, 
and is now tossing in a dash out of habit.  They like what they 
taste, either from me or from one of the good shops near here.
Was this the best method for having them lose the add-ons of cream 
and sugar?  Should I even have suggested they do so?  Since I don't 
use either one, I am not sure which flavors do come through, though 
the cream only friend said she could taste the chocolate.  Should I 
leave it alone or should I suggest it to others if they want to truly 
capture the flavors?  In the case of Don and Denise, they asked, so I 
didn't feel pushy.
Ideas?

2) From: Sandy Andina
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Well, my singing partner apparently has an abundance of bitter and  
sour tastebuds and a paucity of sweet and salty ones--all black  
coffee tastes "bitter" and all wine "sour" to her (she can tell only  
red from white), there is no such thing as too much Splenda, and she  
will reach for the salt shaker before she even tastes her food.   She  
brings along some execrable flavored beans (you name it--vanilla,  
hazelnut, Irish cream) which I insist she grind at home lest they  
pollute my Zass, and she brews them in her own single-cup pourover.  
She buys half-and-half (sugar-free flavored if she can find it--not  
the fat-free, which has too many carbs), and uses at least 3 packets  
of Splenda.  At a coffeehouse in Rapid River, MI last weekend, the  
barista took our orders and she ordered her usual foo-foo sugar-free  
flavored grande breve latte, and I my usual tall, extra shot breve  
cappa; he asked me, "any flavors?" and I replied, "Yeah--COFFEE!!!"  
He laughed and said he preferred his coffee to taste like coffee,  
too. Whereupon she replied, "Well *I* like my coffee to taste like  
coffee ice cream."  I am willing to bet that was her fave ice cream  
as a kid, and that her intro to coffee was "Boston" style, most  
likely still in childhood.  Mine was a sip of espresso and one of  
grappa after dinner in an Italian restaurant--no doubt my folks were  
trying to turn me off booze and caffeine early, and it obviously  
didn't work.  Gordy, at age two, shocked a waiter by shouting,  
"OOOOH!!  Cappuccino! Sip?" when my after-dinner cappa arrived.  He  
is now 22 and detests milk drinks--he prefers either black coffee  
(usually Indonesians) or a quad Americano.
I, OTOH, apparently have a paucity of bitter and sour tastebuds and  
an abundance of sweet and salty---I can easily detect nuances among  
coffees and wines (even wines of the same varietal), but rarely add  
salt to food (and never before tasting it); and find that anything  
sweetened with Splenda loses its underlying flavors and instead just  
tastes cloyingly sweet, even "flabby."  I never liked regular soda- 
pop, either; and will drink flavored seltzers and waters only if  
unsweetened.   I definitely prefer savories to sweets, and such are  
my dietary cheats--I am far likelier to overindulge in fresh breads,  
pastas and deep-fried stuff than in desserts and candies.  As far as  
chocolate goes, the darker the better.
On Jul 29, 2007, at 4:11 PM, Stephen Carey wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
www.sandyandina.com
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
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Well, my singing partner =
apparently has an abundance of bitter and sour tastebuds and a paucity =
of sweet and salty ones--all black coffee tastes "bitter" and all wine =
"sour" to her (she can tell only red from white), there is no such thing =
as too much Splenda, and she will reach for the salt shaker before she =
even tastes her food.   She brings along some execrable flavored =
beans (you name it--vanilla, hazelnut, Irish cream) which I insist she =
grind at home lest they pollute my Zass, and she brews them in her own =
single-cup pourover. She buys half-and-half (sugar-free flavored if she =
can find it--not the fat-free, which has too many carbs), and uses at =
least 3 packets of Splenda.  At a coffeehouse in Rapid River, MI last =
weekend, the barista took our orders and she ordered her usual foo-foo =
sugar-free flavored grande breve latte, and I my usual tall, extra shot =
breve cappa; he asked me, "any flavors?" and I replied, =
"Yeah--COFFEE!!!" He laughed and said he preferred his coffee to taste =
like coffee, too. Whereupon she replied, "Well *I* like my coffee to =
taste like coffee ice cream."  I am willing to bet that was her fave =
ice cream as a kid, and that her intro to coffee was "Boston" style, =
most likely still in childhood.  Mine was a sip of espresso and one of =
grappa after dinner in an Italian restaurant--no doubt my folks were =
trying to turn me off booze and caffeine early, and it obviously didn't =
work.  Gordy, at age two, shocked a waiter by shouting, "OOOOH!!  =
Cappuccino! Sip?" when my after-dinner cappa arrived.  He is now 22 =
and detests milk drinks--he prefers either black coffee (usually =
Indonesians) or a quad Americano.
I, OTOH, apparently have a = paucity of bitter and sour tastebuds and an abundance of sweet and = salty---I can easily detect nuances among coffees and wines (even wines = of the same varietal), but rarely add salt to food (and never before = tasting it); and find that anything sweetened with Splenda loses its = underlying flavors and instead just tastes cloyingly sweet, even = "flabby."  I never liked regular soda-pop, either; and will drink = flavored seltzers and waters only if unsweetened.   I definitely = prefer savories to sweets, and such are my dietary cheats--I am far = likelier to overindulge in fresh breads, pastas and deep-fried stuff = than in desserts and candies.  As far as chocolate goes, the darker = the better. On Jul 29, 2007, at 4:11 PM, Stephen Carey = wrote:
I am in a bit of a dilemma to = which I think I know the answer and just want to see if I am on the = right track.  A number of = my friends who have now tasted better than canned coffee through my few = roasts, plus gifts of coffee from a roaster in Costa Rica, has them = thinking: what are they missing by using cream and sugar. My = guess, total guess, is that when they were young they smelled the flavor = that almost any halfway decent canned coffee will give off, not the same = as freshly roasted, but the imagination of flavor is still there.  They taste the canned stuff = and find out it doesn't have the body of the aroma, it has a stale = taste, which they now think coffee is supposed to have. To fit = in with the adults they try adding cream, sugar or both to their = mugs.  This covers the = bad flavor to a point, gives the coffee a sense of body and they think = that is good coffee.I didn't want to tell my friends = how to drink coffee but they were truly disappointed that they couldn't = taste what I was tasting it a sip of Rwanda coffee - citrus, then a kind = of heavy semi-sweet chocolate flavor.  My suggestion was that rather = than go cold turkey, which is always an option, they could slowly cut = back and with each cup they would taste more of the coffee flavors - AS = LONG AS THEY WENT TO A COFFEE SHOP, and not a chain shop.  They both are doing = this.  One has cut out = sugar completely and is way down on his FAKE cream (more = chemicals).  The other = only used cream, the real stuff, and is now tossing in a dash out of = habit.  They like what = they taste, either from me or from one of the good shops near = here. Was this the best method for having them lose the = add-ons of cream and sugar?  = Should I even have suggested they do so?  Since I don't use either one, = I am not sure which flavors do come through, though the cream only = friend said she could taste the chocolate.  Should I leave it alone or = should I suggest it to others if they want to truly capture the = flavors?  In the case of = Don and Denise, they asked, so I didn't feel pushy. homeroast mailing listhttp://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change your personal list settings (digest = options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings = Sandy = Andinawww.sandyandina.comwww.myspace.com/sandyandina=

= = --Apple-Mail-121--866940163--

3) From: Bob
If I go to the "trouble" (it isn't. I really love doing this) to roast 
the coffee for a unique experience, the people should at least try the 
coffee before dumping confections into it. Why bother with home roast or 
anything other than the canned drek in the supermarket if you're dumping 
stuff into the coffee before even trying to taste something new and unique?
I consider it an insult to my efforts and my sensibilities.
That said, the spousal unit does TRY the coffee before commencement of 
defiling and pollution. She acknowledges the unique and wonderful 
tastes. Then BAM! I don't watch.
Bob

4) From: scott miller
There are some folks I have encouraged to give my roasts a try without
adding anything. I just asked them to indulge me and they have for the most
part done that. I usually do this with something that's not too complex a
coffee: a Oaxaca, Costa Rican, or something that's not going to overwhelm
them with exotic floral or spice aromas. Some find they like the experience
and do appreciate that well roasted, fresh coffee can certainly be enjoyed
straight.... but often return to adding stuff, but maybe not as much as
before.
Some of these folks have also told me of the difficulty in finding coffee
worth drinking that way...
Now, I do have one friend who will put about 4 tablespoons of sugar into his
coffee... that's a bit much!
cheers,
Scott
On 7/29/07, Bob  wrote:
<Snip>

5) From: Eddie Dove
Stephen,
Before people taste my coffees, I let them know that this is not what
they are used to and I really want them to enjoy THEIR cup of coffee.
I encourage them to taste it black first, so that they can then adjust
the cream and sugar a bit to suit their taste and make it a great cup
of coffee.  At work, they are amazed, generally don't add anything,
and continue to comment on how they cannot believe they are drinking
black coffee and loving it.
Some of my coworkers are to the point now, where they will sip the
coffee and say, "Oooh, I bet a little cream would really accentuate
..." and they will dash off and confirm their hunch.  This is common
with the India Mysore Nuggets Extra Bold and although I only drink my
coffee black, I have tried that one with a bit of cream and it is
excellent.  Seldom does anyone add sugar.
I do think people should enjoy their coffee ... whatever that means to them.
Hope this helps.
Respectfully,
Eddie
-- 
Vita non est vivere sed valere vita est
Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafehttp://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/On 7/29/07, Stephen Carey  wrote:
<Snip>

6) From: Rick Copple
Stephen Carey wrote:
<Snip>
Well, the flavor of the coffee itself. For store bought stuff, most 
can't handle the bitter, stale taste of coffee. Like Sandy's friend, my 
wife can stand coffee or wines, her bitter taste bud is over active. 
I've heard that a good number of people have a sensitivity to bitter, 
while others don't. So, if she taste my coffee, all she can taste is 
bitter, bitter, bitter. If she drinks it, the only way is to dump 
copious amounts of sugar and preferably cream in to make it palatable. 
Sometimes she kids me, "You can't taste all those flavors in there. Yea, 
right, chocolate!" Same with wines, even the sweetest wines, they mostly 
just taste very bitter, like drinking hairspray as she describes it, and 
so can't taste the fruit flavors in it.
So, for some people, homeroast or not, that is the only way it is 
palatable to them. My wife will occasionally drink a cup, sweetened and 
creamed, when she needs some caffine to help stay awake. She is very 
sensitive to that, and one cup will keep her up for hours. Unlike me. I 
can drink a cup right before I go to bed and have no problems going to 
sleep.
But, for those who are not overly sensitive to the bitter chemical, they 
are missing out on the actual coffee flavor, which in the case of store 
bought might be a good thing.
When I lived in Kansas City back in the 90s, my favorite coffee was 
Maxwell House Master Blend. I always dumped cream and sugar in it. For 
me, that tasted real good. Then I realized from going to the dentist 
that I kept having gum-line cavities all the time, and realized it was 
from drinking coffee all day long with sugar in it, so I knew I would 
have to either stop drinking coffee, or learn to like it without the 
sugar. I opted for the later. Decided I would give it a try and some 
time, and I actually got to liking that bitter, stale coffee flavor.
But first time I brewed up some MH MB, I drank some and it was so weak 
and pathetic in flavor I couldn't believe it. It tasted like water with 
a touch of coffee flavor added to make it brown. I realized the "taste" 
I had enjoyed so much was mostly the taste of sugar and cream, cause the 
coffee sure wasn't adding much flavor to it other than a touch of 
bitterness.
So, that's when I switched to Folgers. It has a stronger coffee flavor 
to it, stale as it was. Later, I ended up with a whirly blade grinder 
and started buying whole bean, and mostly I ended up with Folgers whole 
bean. That's pretty much what I was drinking until I ordered some greens 
from SM, roasted it, tasted it, and there was no turning back. Now, 
coffee I *want* to drink has to have good, fresh flavor.
<Snip>
Probably depends on the person. Weaning them off might be the best 
approach. When I went sugarless, I did it cold turkey. But I knew I 
probably wasn't going to like the taste right off the bat, but that it 
would be an acquired taste, which it was. But I figured if I acquired 
it, I could keep drinking it without sugar. But if they continue 
dropping the amount they put in until they are no longer putting in any, 
that probably would be a good way to do it. Not everyone is that 
patient, though, would just rather dive right in. I think if they know 
going in that it will be a shock to their system and take a little 
getting use to, most can handle that. Sort of like tea too, I'm the only 
one in my family who drinks it without sugar, though being a Texan I 
like a good sweet tea too on occasion. :) But more and more I like 
getting the flavor of the tea itself and not have it covered up by the 
sugar.
I wouldn't push that, most people like what they like and unless they 
are looking for a change, won't respond to attempts to get them to dump 
it. You can test the waters on occasion. See where they are at. I might 
comment I use to put sugar and cream in mine but gave me gum line 
cavities, so stopped using it, and have been glad ever since. They will 
either think that is interesting, or they will indicate further 
interest, will start a discussion, etc.
But when I bring coffee to church and people throw sugar and cream it 
in, I don't usually say anything nor do I get offended. You can't expect 
people to change their ways. But I've occasionally discussed my roasted 
coffee, talking about the flavors, and maybe indicating they can't taste 
it because of all the cream and sugar they have. Sometimes they have at 
least been open to trying some black, especially if I tell them that 
fresh roasted coffee is more naturally sweet than what the get out of 
the can, so they really shouldn't add as much sugar as they are use to 
if they are going to add it, or they might find they like it better without.
But if I'm going to give my coffee to someone, I don't feel I have the 
right to tell them how they should drink it and get offended if they 
don't. I'll suggest to them the best way, but if I've given it to them, 
seems silly for me to get all worked up if they don't drink it like I 
want them to. My thinking is that even if they do put cream and sugar in 
it, some of the unique flavor is still going to come through, and is 
still going to taste better. If the get hooked, they may find they want 
to taste it black to find out what all the flavors they could be tasting 
are.
-- 
Rick Copplehttp://www.copple.us/blog/

7) From:
Stephen:
People should have their coffee, homeroast or bag-o-burned however they want it.
Remember we have the TASTE factor at hand again.
If I go buy a cup of say Circle K coffee it tastes like watered down swill to me, another will say they cannot drink it because it is soooo strong.
personal taste wins every time...
ginny
---- Stephen Carey  wrote: 
<Snip>

8) From: John Brown
it may be because that is the way they like their coffee, as i do.  
cream and sugar have some times been the only thing i could eat  and 
digest. so that kept me alive at least until the Doc's could decide what 
was wrong with my body.  i no longer produced pancreatic enzymes to 
digest my food well.  i went from 230 pounds down to 140, now back up to 
160.  this has taken me a year to do. so i drink my coffee with heavy 
cream and raw sugar.
Bob wrote:
<Snip>

9) From: Stephen Carey
thank you all.  First, I would never tell someone how to take their 
coffee.  In my case with my two friends, they were here to try the 
coffee, see how I did it and how I drank it.  I felt fine asking them 
to try it without sugar or cream first, then add what they 
needed.  It is a tough switch as a cold turkey approach, I would 
guess.  But, they both said they had no idea that was what coffee 
could taste like.  Also, one, who has always bought the cheapest 
thinking all coffee is the same said it was the first time the coffee 
tasted like it smelled.  I WAS psyched.  He is almost off of 
everything, truly gets what it can be, but from learning in a college 
dining room he had no idea - heck, I can remember that attempt at 
coffee and even back then I waited for the care packages from my 
parents of pre-roasted, but not-ground, finer coffees.  They were not 
as fresh as now, but they beat the dining hall any day of the week.
Now, if I get halfway good at roasting, and I am sure I will, 
actually, being more fair to myself, I am okay now, but lots of room 
for improvement.  However, everything I have roasted, and that is 
only six roasts after tonight's, has been fresh and bright, even if 
not spot on for what I was going for.  Anyway, when the time is right 
and I give a half pound or pound of home roasted coffee in the 
plastic sealed bags, with that in a 1 pound pre-roast sack, I do NOT 
plan on telling them how to drink it.  I will include the coffee, its 
history, and how I roasted it.  I hope that is a hint, but if not, 
fine, for it is a gift that has come truly from me, I have never been 
able to do that before.  I am truly excited.  Maybe a few will try it 
black, some may still put in whatever they like, but I am guessing - 
just a guess - that if they don't cram the cup full of sugar or cream 
they will still taste a difference - won't they?  Wow, I wonder if 
they will - it is a better base to their mixture, it must help 
some.  But whatever happens, I think it is a nice gift to my team 
members from work, some of my clients, and some of my family who 
drink coffee.  I won't foist it on those that don't drink it and tell 
them to try it for they will now like it, that would be really rude and lazy.
About the bitterness, that can be a tough thing.  I am going through 
chemo now and some things taste different.  Coffee seems to be okay, 
but sweets just make me sick - really sick, if you know what I 
mean.  Sugar just doesn't do well.  With the coffee being so fresh I 
seem okay there.
A cool thing about one of the places I used to buy it from would 
never sell coffee that he roasted past a certain date.  So, if it was 
a very expensive and rare coffee I might not get any or he would give 
it away, or he would order some and get me some by the next week and 
I would take something else for that week - now that is a cool 
business man who loves his craft and his business.
Thank you all for the feedback, trust me, I use what I can as I try 
to become better at this with every roast - even if I don't get what 
I planned on I know I still learned.  Like the Mexico FTO that I was 
sure hit City since I was only paying attention to the numbers on the 
machine and not my senses and when I wrote that it was just slightly 
oily, in patches, it was very kindly pointed out to me that I most 
likely went to Full City.  That is still a learning 
experience.  Tonight I modified an element of the roast, but also a 
different coffee, but close in roasting design (at least that is what 
I read), so I set the machine, made the changes I wanted, and this 
time I watched and hit the cool button when I could tell from color, 
sounds of the first crack, and smell that it was where I wanted it 
and it didn't need the last 45 seconds.  I can't wait to taste 
it.  And, I will enjoy my Full City roast, for it is still good and 
fresh.  The help here is amazing.
Thank you all and have a great week.
At 08:30 PM 7/29/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>

10) From: Bob
John Brown wrote:
<Snip>
Special case. I've never been able to drink coffee with anything in it. 
I can't even drink cold or iced coffee. It will not move past the back 
of the mouth. Throat clamps tighter than a, well, let's not go there.
Raw or processed sugar are too sweet for me to take. There is no bad 
reaction or anything. It's just too sweet. Milk I do without because I 
cannot stand the taste. But, I eat cheese.
Go figure.
Bob

11) From: Sandy Andina
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I've given up on bringing coffee to temple.  It has to be solely  
decaf, to accommodate the majority of the congregants who are elderly  
(although my octogenarian mom and nonagenarian m-i-l drank only  
regular all their lives).   For the oneg Shabbat at my son's bar  
mitzvah awhile back (before there was an Intelligentsia or  
Metropolis), I brought 5 lbs. of Casteel & Co. freshly roasted decaf  
Sumatra. But that night, it was still difficult to tell the coffee  
from the tea--the Sisterhood insists on brewing it so weak you can  
read your prayerbook through it.  Metropolis (3 bl. away) donates  
decaf all the time, but the way the Sisterhood brews it it still  
tastes indistinguishable from when they were brewing Maxwell House  
decaf.    In summer, they offer iced tea....but the congregant who  
makes it is from Nashville, so it's sweet tea.
On Jul 29, 2007, at 7:16 PM, Rick Copple wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
www.sandyandina.com
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
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I've given up on bringing coffee =
to temple.  It has to be solely decaf, to accommodate the majority of =
the congregants who are elderly (although my octogenarian mom and =
nonagenarian m-i-l drank only regular all their lives).   For the =
oneg Shabbat at my son's bar mitzvah awhile back (before there was an =
Intelligentsia or Metropolis), I brought 5 lbs. of Casteel & Co. =
freshly roasted decaf Sumatra. But that night, it was still difficult to =
tell the coffee from the tea--the Sisterhood insists on brewing it so =
weak you can read your prayerbook through it.  Metropolis (3 bl. away) =
donates decaf all the time, but the way the Sisterhood brews it it still =
tastes indistinguishable from when they were brewing Maxwell House =
decaf.    In summer, they offer iced tea....but the congregant who =
makes it is from Nashville, so it's sweet tea.
On Jul 29, =
2007, at 7:16 PM, Rick Copple wrote:

But when I bring coffee to = church and people throw sugar and cream it in, I don't usually say = anything nor do I get offended. You can't expect people to change their = ways.

Sandy = Andinawww.sandyandina.comwww.myspace.com/sandyandina=

= = --Apple-Mail-123--849383910--

12) From: Eddie Dove
The Temple has many offerings, coffee is but one.  Both regular and
decaf, accepted is all that is offered with a true spirit.
Some are elderly, remember,they lived through the depression; you
think you're tough?.
I hope so.
Eddie
-- 
Vita non est vivere sed valere vita est
Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafehttp://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/On 7/29/07, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>

13) From: Homeroaster
Kinda like ordering a steak at an expensive restaurant and dousing it with 
catsup, maybe?  I guess it's OK, but why waste money on good steak or coffee 
if you're going to kill the most elusive flavors with the add-ons?  A cheap 
steak or lesser quality coffee works fine with the added flavorings and 
doesn't offend the chef.
Occasionally I like 'dessert coffee' with stuff added in, like cappuccino or 
a mocha, or even a scoop of vanilla ice cream in a cup of hot, black coffee. 
Usually I'll add things if I'm 'coffeed out' and still need a bit of a 
caffeine lift, or if the coffee tastes less than great.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************

14) From: John Brown
Bob wrote:
<Snip>
this was one of symptoms i had as well.
<Snip>
chemo treatment can change how you perceive flavors,
one thing it did to me was to completely take away the taste of salt.  
then skewed the rest of things except chocolate, and coffee

15) From: Angelo
Because maybe someone can taste the fact that it is a "better" steak 
through the catsup...I drink coffee with additives or not depending 
on my wants/needs of the moment. I always taste it black and then 
decide what to add, or not. I can taste the different coffee flavors 
underneath the additives.
I don't know why anyone should get 'offended" {there's that word 
again) with how someone treats a gift. A true gift has no strings 
attached... Otherwise, it is just a trade. In this case, my coffee in 
return for an ego stroke...
Ciao belli,
Angelo
<Snip>

16) From: Brian Kamnetz
On 7/29/07, Stephen Carey  wrote:
<Snip>
I DO tell people how to take their coffee. At least initially, if I make it;
they can refuse it if they like, in favor of whatever they like. After I buy
the best greens in the world from Tom and Maria, then spend time/effort
roasting the beans, and grinding by hand in either a Trosser or Zassenhaus
mill, then brewing VERY slowly, and very attentively, in a moka pot, one mug
at a time, I TELL people that I expect them to taste it before cutting it
with cream/sugar. I give them this analogy: I tell them that if they buy
rail tequila/Scotch/etc, I expect that they they will cut it with pop, etc.
in order to render it palatable. But if they buy $75/bottle
tequila/Scotch/etc, I would expect them to drink it straight up, sipping it,
because that is where the flavors are. Same with coffee. I expect that they
will give it a chance to cool some, and then sip it, not slam it, to see
what flavors might lurk therein. If they still wish to cut it with
substances that serve primarily to make the unpalatable palatable, that is
fine (sort of). But I am less eager to go to the trouble of creating good
coffee for these people after that. I still value them for their human
qualities, and am thankful to share life with them, but coffee sort of moves
out of the picture; it is not relevant.
Brian

17) From: Rick Copple
I understand what is being said. Naturally we want people to taste the 
great flavors we are tasting. And I'll suggest, if I'm giving it to one 
person or two, that they should taste it black before putting anything 
in, because home roasted coffee is sweeter and so even if they cut it, 
they will need to adjust the sugar. I've had some taste it black and say 
they could drink it this way. But in a big gathering that is impractical 
short of getting everyone's attention and making an announcement.
But, I guess my feeling is if someone likes their steak better with 
catchup, then that is how they should eat it. If someone after tasting 
it black likes it better with sugar and cream, then that is how they 
should drink it.
I still think (unless they just drowned it in sugar and cream) that the 
coffee flavors will come through and will taste better than their 
Folgers. Just means they won't taste the full effect of the flavors. But 
if they are like my wife, and sensitive to bitters, the sugar and cream 
could actually allow them to taste the coffee flavors better than 
without. Everyone's taste works different, and everyone likes what they 
like, and it would be silly of me to get bent out of shape when someone 
else's taste don't match mine.
So to me, I give someone coffee because I want to share, and I wouldn't 
take any offense or be concerned if they want to put sugar or cream into 
it. And I don't think them doing that would cause me to not give them 
more in the future, if they liked it better than their Folgers or 
whatever they normally drink. I know it will be appreciated, and that is 
my criteria for whether I continue to give coffee to someone, if they 
enjoy it and appreciate the gift.
-- 
Rick Copple

18) From: Justin Marquez
On 7/29/07, Rick Copple  wrote:
<Snip>
Isn't that a major reason people why people are supposed to go to church?
 Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)

19) From: Tom Ulmer
Remind me never to come to dinner at your house...

20) From: Woody DeCasere
i always try my coffee black at least the first roast, but i don't like most
coffee's black all the time i do enjoy a bit of raw sugar and some light
cream in my coffee, i can taste the flavors of all my coffees like that i am
NOT missing any, telling people how to drink coffee is fascist. Snobbery
does not equal a good coffee experience, let people enjoy it how they like
it, if they are drinking better coffee and enjoying it then be happy for
them.
that being said there are a few coffee i make or give to people i say try it
black, i make a really nice Colombia/Kenya blend that i roast city + to full
city, that is the most amazing coffee when had black, also  a nice Yirg
lightly roasted begs for nothing.
On 7/30/07, Tom Ulmer  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"And we'd better not risk another frontal assault, that rabbit's dynamite!!"http://www.decasere.blogspot.com/

21) From: Ingrid Clark Zavadoski
Regarding the over-active bitter tasters -- I wonder if this is more 
common with smokers. My mom and my best friend (both smokers) can 
detect bitter in things that I simply cannot. Or, in things that are 
pleasingly bitter to me.

22) From: Stephen Carey
--=====================_346841671==.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Hi all.  I started this topic after friends came to me and certainly 
didn't mean to get anyone upset with anyone.  For me, if it is a gift 
I just wouldn't tell them how to drink it - or suggest it directly, 
though the slip of paper I include in the gift about the coffee, the 
roast, the treasure trove of flavors may get them to try it 
black.  On the first go, I would guess it would not be very 
good.  That is a big switch which may have to happen over time, I don't know.
What I do know is that one of the cool things about coffee - ANY 
coffee - is that so many times it is served during friends spending 
time together and just enjoying each others coffee.  That is what is 
important.  In that case, just as someone serving wine may extoll on 
the virtues of that vintage, I would most likely describe the roast 
and the flavors, maybe even suggesting a sip of it black.  But, if 
after that they pout coffee and cream and whatever else into it, good 
for them.  For I would rather have them present than get offended 
about how they drink my coffee.  My friends are in their late 30s 
through their early 50's, tough to make changes and I won't force 
anyone.  I just like having them present.  The ones who want to know 
more about the roast and coffees will hear it all and see what I have 
going on, but they may still drink their coffee with items in it, 
that is fine.  I am pleased to have shown friends what I am up to.
I honestly believe coffee, more than alcohol and maybe more than tea, 
in this country, is a wonderful drink to serve to friends.  And if 
they learn something about it during our discussions all the better, 
if they don't, I am pleased they came by.  And they are always welcome.
What I am finding though, is that as I get excited about roasting my 
friends get excited for me and they can't wait to taste it.  At that 
point, when they are here for the tasting of a roast, I will 
certainly, and very politely suggest a sip of it black so they can 
taste what I am talking about.
And, I go back to my original theory, if coffee is the base mix of 
the drink, then even with a normal amount of cream or sugar or both, 
it must taste a bit better and I am sure some of the flavors, such as 
chocolate must come through.
But, in the end, I don't care, I would rather have my friends around 
me.  And, I am glad they are interested in what I do no matter how 
they drink it.
One of my best friends makes all sorts of beers and ales, but I don't 
drink.  He is not offended, he values the friendship so much 
more.  That is what I want to be like.
--=====================_346841671==.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Hi all.  I started this topic after friends came to me
and certainly didn't mean to get anyone upset with anyone.  For me,
if it is a gift I just wouldn't tell them how to drink it - or suggest it
directly, though the slip of paper I include in the gift about the
coffee, the roast, the treasure trove of flavors may get them to try it
black.  On the first go, I would guess it would not be very
good.  That is a big switch which may have to happen over time, I
don't know.
What I do know is that one of the cool things about coffee - ANY coffee -
is that so many times it is served during friends spending time together
and just enjoying each others coffee.  That is what is
important.  In that case, just as someone serving wine may extoll on
the virtues of that vintage, I would most likely describe the roast and
the flavors, maybe even suggesting a sip of it black.  But, if after
that they pout coffee and cream and whatever else into it, good for
them.  For I would rather have them present than get offended about
how they drink my coffee.  My friends are in their late 30s through
their early 50's, tough to make changes and I won't force anyone.  I
just like having them present.  The ones who want to know more about
the roast and coffees will hear it all and see what I have going on, but
they may still drink their coffee with items in it, that is fine.  I
am pleased to have shown friends what I am up to.
I honestly believe coffee, more than alcohol and maybe more than tea, in
this country, is a wonderful drink to serve to friends.  And if they
learn something about it during our discussions all the better, if they
don't, I am pleased they came by.  And they are always
welcome.
What I am finding though, is that as I get excited about roasting my
friends get excited for me and they can't wait to taste it.  At that
point, when they are here for the tasting of a roast, I will certainly,
and very politely suggest a sip of it black so they can taste what I am
talking about.
And, I go back to my original theory, if coffee is the base mix of the
drink, then even with a normal amount of cream or sugar or both, it must
taste a bit better and I am sure some of the flavors, such as chocolate
must come through.
But, in the end, I don't care, I would rather have my friends around
me.  And, I am glad they are interested in what I do no matter how
they drink it.
One of my best friends makes all sorts of beers and ales, but I don't
drink.  He is not offended, he values the friendship so much
more.  That is what I want to be like.
--=====================_346841671==.ALT--

23) From: Bob
Stephen Carey wrote:
<Snip>
I don't think anyone is getting upset. No "all caps" replies. Then 
again, I haven't read every post yet ...
This was a good subject to bring up.
Bob

24) From: Floyd Lozano
I give coffee to people i like.  I don't care if they take the sack of
coffee and beat their cats with it.  I hope they don't.  I hope they like
the coffee though.
-F
On 7/30/07, Bob  wrote:
<Snip>

25) From: True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
This has been debated numerous times.  
Personally I have found that moving from "would you like a little coffee
with your cream and sugar?" to black is analogous to your palette
developing over time with wines, I remember when I thought that DRY was
horrible and even though a robust red is not my thing YET I expect it to
one day.  My change in coffee was forced upon me due to my environment
being at sea for an 8-month deployment will cause you to adapt to your
surroundings. 
I started even with fresh roast taking the same cream and sugar that I
did with everything else, although I would test a bit straight-up first
it was still too much for me.  Now I can drink my coffee black but I
still prefer a touch of sweet/cream in my cup.  For me it seems to
enhance the wonderful flavors in my cup.  
All that said encourage but don't be upset or disappointed if they still
take it like they always have- After all old habits die hard!
 
IMO YMMV
Dennis
 
V/R, 
FC1(SW/AW) Dennis W. True 
"Life Liberty and the pursuit of all who threaten it..."

26) From: Justin Marquez
Why is it that people get so animated about black coffee versus cream and
sugar? (Fergoodnesssakes, it isn't like someone is maligning their favorite
computer or something!)  Why should I even care how someone else drinks his
coffee as long as I am left free to drink it however I like it?
(Hey, Floyd - If they just want to beat their cats with the bag, give 'em
greens instead of roasted - it'll  *WHAP* those cats so much more
effectively.)
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
On 7/30/07, Floyd Lozano  wrote:
<Snip>

27) From: Jeff Oien
Ingrid Clark Zavadoski wrote:
<Snip>
I haven't read this whole thread but I'm one of those over-active bitter 
tasters. I need less than a shot glass of whole milk (cream covers way 
too much for me) and a tiny bit of sugar. I've had it with Folgers, then 
Starbucks and now home roast and the home roast is still that much 
better than Starbucks whether or not I add anything.
Like others I do taste without additives before drinking a cup. And when 
I cup with friends I often don't add anything.
I consider whole milk neutral (I would never add flavors to coffee) and 
it doesn't add or detract significantly, although it may bring out or 
mute some flavors. Without milk it can be more difficult to discern 
flavors because I mostly taste bitter. It can bring out more flavors 
like chocolate and in the Brazil Aprocam it brought out the banana. That 
was pretty special. Banana in coffee!
I don't think the alcoholic beverages is a good analogy. I would never 
add soda to wine or any other fine drink.
JeffO

28) From: Sandy Andina
--Apple-Mail-131--789528947
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Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset-ASCII;
	delsp=yes;
	format=flowed
My friend never smoked tobacco.
On Jul 30, 2007, at 8:19 AM, Ingrid Clark Zavadoski wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
www.sandyandina.com
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
--Apple-Mail-131--789528947
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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	charsetO-8859-1
My friend never smoked =
tobacco.
On Jul 30, 2007, at 8:19 AM, Ingrid Clark =
Zavadoski wrote:
Regarding the over-active bitter tasters -- I wonder = if this is more common with smokers. My mom and my best friend (both = smokers) can detect bitter in things that I simply cannot. Or, in things = that are pleasingly bitter to me. homeroast mailing listhttp://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change your personal list settings (digest = options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings = Sandy = Andinawww.sandyandina.comwww.myspace.com/sandyandina=

= = --Apple-Mail-131--789528947--

29) From: Justin Marquez
Oooooo-kay....
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
On 7/30/07, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>

30) From:
<Snip>
if I'm 'coffeed out'  and still need a bit of a caffeine lift<<<
I would suggest Ed that you skip the caffeine for some herb!! Calm thyself!!
ginny
---- Angelo  wrote: 
<Snip>

31) From: Rick Copple
Sandy Andina wrote:
<Snip>
My wife, who is highly sensitive, has never smoked either. As a matter 
of fact, according to my daughter's schooling, there is a chemical in 
foods like coffee, tea, and other such things to which some people react 
to and others essentially don't taste it due to differences in 
taste-buds. So it is more hereditary than induced by outside influences 
directly.
-- 
Rick Copplehttp://www.copple.us/blog/

32) From: Homeroaster
I think I must be the last pot virgin in existence.  I really can't stand
the thought of smoking 'anything'.  Never put a cigarette to my lips.  I
think I can attribute it to an old memory of sitting on my grandfather's lap
as a very small child and taking a puff on his pipe.  I remember how
incredibly awful it was, and it obviously stuck with me for life.  Whether
that is what repulses me with smoking or not, who knows.  I'm glad I never
took up either habit though.
About the only 'herb' I do is hops, brewed into quality beers.
Oh, and basil and cilantro at the Mexican restaurant.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************

33) From: Bob
Homeroaster wrote:
<Snip>
I never could understand why people would smoke. You ingest hot gases 
with other crud into your lungs. You cough. You hack. Very clear message 
from the body. Especially when you start.
Bob

34) From: Justin Marquez
You are not the last pot virgin.  And I agree with you about the smoking as
well. Yuk.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
On 7/31/07, Homeroaster  wrote:
<Snip>

35) From:
I don't smoke anything but many who need the weed should have it.
g
---- Bob  wrote: 
<Snip>


HomeRoast Digest