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Topic: don't try this at home! (8 msgs / 403 lines)
1) From: Stephen Carey
There I was, all ready with my IR2 and a new profile programmed in 
for Brasil FTO Poco Fundo.  As soon as I went to the cycle and hit 
"roast" I knew something was wrong, the total time was off by 30 
seconds.  I knew where it came from and thought I could still get 
lucky for I had added time to what I thought I would need on the last 
cycle to give myself some room.  Good idea, bad execution.
All is going well, I get to the last cycle and check the temp, I am 
exactly 100F low, I programmed that cycle, in a hurry and it too was 
wrong.  I then remembered that the pre-set cycle 1 on the IR2 started 
and ran the entire time at the temperature I needed.  I hit cool to 
stop the roast, unplugged the machine to reset it, hit pre-set one, 
and then went my the second crack and the look.  I was looking for 
patches of oil.  The oil appeared just as the second crack was about 
in the middle of itself.  I waited a touch longer for the color I 
wanted and hit cool.
The beans taste great, there are the expected flavors in there, but I 
feel they will be enhanced with time.  I can't really figure out what 
to put in my log, but I feel the basic premise of the profile was 
correct if I hadn't been talking and in a hurry while programming it. 
My lesson for the day.
I have to say, I love watching and listening, plus smelling the beans 
to get to where I believe they should be.  I know I need to set 
profiles so I can get their again, but there is something to using the senses.
I will know tonight and tomorrow if I did okay.  It probably won't be 
very close to perfect, but the house smells good and fresh, the beans 
I could keep munching on, I love the chocolate after taste.  I might 
just get lucky.  BUT, I wouldn't recommend this sloppy way of 
roasting to anyone.  More care and time and attention must be given 
to what I am doing.  Wish me luck.  I am trying something else 
tonight, a City + roast that I will try on a new bean for me.
Thank you.

2) From: Brian Kamnetz
Stephen,
I'm not sure what you are going for, but it seems to me, in my limited
experience, that roasting until oil appears might be taking the roast a bit
dark, a bit past Vienna, perhaps adding some charring to the varietal
flavors. Do you go lighter with some roasts, particularly with varieties
where Tom suggests City or City+?
Brian
On 8/7/07, Stephen Carey  wrote:
<Snip>

3) From: Brian Kamnetz
On 8/7/07, Stephen Carey  wrote:
<Snip>
Oops. Please ignore my last question....
Brian "I gotta slow down and read!" Kamnetz

4) From: Stephen Carey
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I do a lot of city and city +, well, a lot in my limited time.  I was 
going for the far side Full City +.  Mostly I was playing to see the 
characteristics of the profile for the machine and that bean.  I have 
learned that with a touch of oil on it I get a nicely dark roasted 
bean that maintains it flavor on the bean I did it on before.  This 
bean is new to me, so there was experimenting going on and I got to 
where I wanted.  I made a cup after 6 hours, a bit early, not a 
proper rest, but I like to see the changes.  I could taste a nice 
zest, a bit of citrus, and then an after taste of what I would call 
semi-sweet chocolate.  I will know more in the morning.
At 07:00 PM 8/7/2007, you wrote:
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I do a lot of city and city +, well, a lot in my limited
time.  I was going for the far side Full City +.  Mostly I was
playing to see the characteristics of the profile for the machine and
that bean.  I have learned that with a touch of oil on it I get a
nicely dark roasted bean that maintains it flavor on the bean I did it on
before.  This bean is new to me, so there was experimenting going on
and I got to where I wanted.  I made a cup after 6 hours, a bit
early, not a proper rest, but I like to see the changes.  I could
taste a nice zest, a bit of citrus, and then an after taste of what I
would call semi-sweet chocolate.  I will know more in the morning.
At 07:00 PM 8/7/2007, you wrote:
Stephen,
I'm not sure what you are going for, but it seems to me, in my limited
experience, that roasting until oil appears might be taking the roast a
bit dark, a bit past Vienna, perhaps adding some charring to the varietal
flavors. Do you go lighter with some roasts, particularly with varieties
where Tom suggests City or City+? 
Brian
On 8/7/07, Stephen Carey
<steve
> wrote:
I was looking for
patches of oil.  The oil appeared just as the second crack was
about
in the middle of itself.  I waited a touch longer for the color
I
wanted and hit cool.
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5) From: raymanowen
"The oil appeared just as the second crack was about in the middle of
itself.
[Would you know it was really in the middle- have you allowed the same roast
to go all the way through Second, or was this an arbitrary mid-point?]
I waited a touch longer for the color I wanted and hit cool."
[The button is mismarked "Cool." The button should be marked "Start cooling
the roaster."]
The little draft of air flowing during "Cool" is the identical airflow of
the roast cycle. First, the electric heat power is shut off when you hit
"Cool," and the heater is cooled off by the air.
When you cool the surface of the beans a few degrees, the surface
effectively stops advancing. Here's a clue: Most of the mass of the bean is
beneath the surface, and keeps going because it's insulated from the cooling
effects by the roasted bean at the surface.
I'm guessing the bean forms a surface layer similar to refractory as it
roasts, and stops transmitting heat very well. I know nothing, but I get
outstanding results when I nurse the roast up to and through First crack.
If I want to avoid Second entirely, I keep nursing it along after First
until it starts Smoke Accelerando. Then I hit the brakes.
If I want just the very edge of Second, I coax more smoke until I get a few
snaps of Second. El Stoppo.
Some beans really speak, flavorwise, when the beans get a good start in
Second. But then you feel like the Sorcerer's Apprentice- Oops! Now how to
stop this infernal dance? Igor- Kastchei's Bird is on Fire!
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
Where's Dukas when you need him- watching burning birds at the coffee shop?
On 8/7/07, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976

6) From: Stephen Carey
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Thanks Ray.  I have taken this bean all the way through, so I had a 
sense, limited by experience, but a sense of when it was in the 
middle.  I realize the cool button is really a misnomer, one that one 
would think would have been changed by now.  There are a lot of 
little tricks to this machine that don't come with any book, but you 
learn only by playing.
I can say that I got the beans back up to 450 according to the 
thermometer that I have in the machine, that wire is right in the 
middle of the beans and I know that the heat was on, the spoke 
started, but since I wanted just the patches of oil when I went to 
the final cool cycle it stopped.  I will say that of the beans I have 
roasted, limited in number, these had the most pronounced second 
crack.  I used that as a rough, very rough guide.
The final roast, not perfect by any standard, still came out 
refreshingly well and better than I imagined it would.  Which is why 
I strongly say this is not the way to try a roast - too rushed, doing 
too many things, too afraid to make a mistake (heck, I have pounds 
and pounds of beans, what does it matter - other than the suggested 
wait period on the machine) AND a big one, picking the phone up when 
it rang - loser of an idea.
Now, my roasting time is my own, phones are a no, I don't mind 
messing up, for it may still be good, just not great, or just toss 
it.  And, I put on Costa Rican music from a CD a neighbor of ours 
down there made me.  Much nicer than rushing, feeling pressured to be 
the best, and also holding a bit of fear about going for the darker beans.
Though last night, I did well, I went to Full City +, on 
purpose.  The bean could use a slower warm up, my guess, but it still 
tasted mighty good this afternoon.
I am printing out what you wrote, adding it to my collection of notes 
and trust me, I will use. it.  I don't overwhelm myself with 
everything written, but when I can see how useful it is I take it and 
learn.  Worst thing that happens is I had fun, toss about 6 or fewer 
ounces of beans, and learned a lot.  For a mistake is still a roast 
and one that can be extremely instructional.
All the best,
Stephen
P.S.  One of the cool parts of roasting is usually even our mistakes 
taste okay, and teach us a lot.
At 05:21 PM 8/8/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>
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Thanks Ray.  I have taken this bean all the way
through, so I had a sense, limited by experience, but a sense of when it
was in the middle.  I realize the cool button is really a misnomer,
one that one would think would have been changed by now.  There are
a lot of little tricks to this machine that don't come with any book, but
you learn only by playing.
I can say that I got the beans back up to 450 according to the
thermometer that I have in the machine, that wire is right in the middle
of the beans and I know that the heat was on, the spoke started, but
since I wanted just the patches of oil when I went to the final cool
cycle it stopped.  I will say that of the beans I have roasted,
limited in number, these had the most pronounced second crack.  I
used that as a rough, very rough guide.
The final roast, not perfect by any standard, still came out refreshingly
well and better than I imagined it would.  Which is why I strongly
say this is not the way to try a roast - too rushed, doing too many
things, too afraid to make a mistake (heck, I have pounds and pounds of
beans, what does it matter - other than the suggested wait period on the
machine) AND a big one, picking the phone up when it rang - loser of an
idea.
Now, my roasting time is my own, phones are a no, I don't mind messing
up, for it may still be good, just not great, or just toss it.  And,
I put on Costa Rican music from a CD a neighbor of ours down there made
me.  Much nicer than rushing, feeling pressured to be the best, and
also holding a bit of fear about going for the darker beans.
Though last night, I did well, I went to Full City +, on purpose. 
The bean could use a slower warm up, my guess, but it still tasted mighty
good this afternoon.
I am printing out what you wrote, adding it to my collection of notes and
trust me, I will use. it.  I don't overwhelm myself with everything
written, but when I can see how useful it is I take it and learn. 
Worst thing that happens is I had fun, toss about 6 or fewer ounces of
beans, and learned a lot.  For a mistake is still a roast and one
that can be extremely instructional.
All the best,
Stephen
P.S.  One of the cool parts of roasting is usually even our mistakes
taste okay, and teach us a lot.
At 05:21 PM 8/8/2007, you wrote:
"The oil appeared just as
the second crack was about in the middle of itself.  
[Would you know it was really in the middle- have you allowed the same
roast to go all the way through Second, or was this an arbitrary
mid-point?] 
I waited a touch longer for the color I wanted and hit cool."
[The button is mismarked "Cool." The button should be marked
"Start cooling the roaster."]
The little draft of air flowing during "Cool" is the identical
airflow of the roast cycle. First, the electric heat power is shut off
when you hit "Cool," and the heater is cooled off by the air.
When you cool the surface of the beans a few degrees, the surface
effectively stops advancing. Here's a clue: Most of the mass of the bean
is beneath the surface, and keeps going because it's insulated from the
cooling effects by the roasted bean at the surface. 
I'm guessing the bean forms a surface layer similar to refractory as it
roasts, and stops transmitting heat very well. I know nothing, but I get
outstanding results when I nurse the roast up to and through First crack.
If I want to avoid Second entirely, I keep nursing it along after First
until it starts Smoke Accelerando. Then I hit the brakes. 
If I want just the very edge of Second, I coax more smoke until I get a
few snaps of Second. El Stoppo. 
Some beans really speak, flavorwise, when the beans get a good start in
Second. But then you feel like the Sorcerer's Apprentice- Oops! Now how
to stop this infernal dance? Igor- Kastchei's Bird is on Fire! 
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
Where's Dukas when you need him- watching burning birds at the coffee
shop?
On 8/7/07, Brian Kamnetz
<bkamnetz
> wrote:
Stephen, 
I'm not sure what you are going for, but it seems to me, in my
limited experience, that roasting until oil appears might be taking the
roast a bit dark, a bit past Vienna, perhaps adding some charring to the
varietal flavors. Do you go lighter with some roasts, particularly with
varieties where Tom suggests City or City+? 
Brian
On 8/7/07, Stephen Carey
<
steve> wrote:
I was looking for
patches of oil.  The oil appeared just as the second crack was
about
in the middle of itself.  I waited a touch longer for the color
I
wanted and hit cool.
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox
at the Mighty Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976
--=====================_198514703==.ALT--

7) From: raymanowen
Congratulations, Steve.
It sounds like you have this tiger by the tail!
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
Artists learn by practicing. So does your doctor. Art/ Science- Übung mac=
ht
den Meister.
On 8/8/07, Stephen Carey  wrote:
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8) From: Larry Johnson
Amen to that, Stephen.
<Snip>
-- 
Larry J
The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do.  -
Walter Bagehot


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