HomeRoast Digest


Topic: screen test (35 msgs / 705 lines)
1) From: George
Ray, sorry to hear about your job loss.  Seems like that is happening
everywhere these days as part of downsizing, sale of business and the lik=
e.
About the same here.  The place I work for, New Process Gear, was origina=
lly
a Chrysler owned company.  A few years back Magna International bought 80=
%
of it and Chrysler had the other 20%.  As of this year Magna is taking
possession of all of it.  Chrysler had great pay, lots of to, great vacat=
ion
and medical packages.   Magna has a higher employee cost medical package,=
 no
retirement package, and the workers get about a 60% pay loss.  They will =
be
paid about what I got around 1990 or so, but no retirement package and
higher medical out of pocket costs.
Therefore after several joint surgeries and other physical problems II am
going to take an early out reduced retirement package and call it quits a=
t
59.  
George
 
--

2) From: Les
One of the list members (who will remain anonymous until he reveals himself)
sent me a set of screens and a Mason Jar with the bottom cut out of it.  The
screens fit perfectly in the top with the ring and the hole is covered
perfectly with the top of the jar for shaking purposes.  I have done 3
screen tests over  the weekend, and getting rid of those fines dramatically
improves the quality of the cup in the Vac brewer and the Technovirm.  I
couldn't believe how crisp, clear, and layered the flavors were without
being muddied by the over extracted fines.  I think this is a big step up in
quality, and the flow through the Swiss Gold is much improved.  There is a
lot more experimenting to go with this fun new addition to my toy box!  I
really hope he markets this set.
Les

3) From: True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
HMMMMMM......
 
Good job to our man of mystery!

4) From: Lisa Carton
wow----THAT is very cool news, thanks les............
great idea....makes=
 a lot of sense!
Inspires me to try out some brewing with different metho=
ds........
I hope the person makes themselves known!
~Lisa
 
~~~~> =
Come see my Coffee Blog at http://lisabeeen.blogspot.com   
--=
--- Original Message ----
From: Les 
To: homeroa=
st
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 11:57:29 AM
Subj=
ect: +screen test
One of the list members (who will remain anonymou=
s until he reveals himself) sent me a set of screens and a Mason Jar with t=
he bottom cut out of it.  The screens fit perfectly in the top with the rin=
g and the hole is covered perfectly with the top of the jar for shaking pur=
poses.  I have done 3 screen tests over  the weekend, and getting rid of th=
ose fines dramatically improves the quality of the cup in the Vac brewer an=
d the Technovirm.  I couldn't believe how crisp, clear, and layered the fla=
vors were without being muddied by the over extracted fines.  I think this =
is a big step up in quality, and the flow through the Swiss Gold is much im=
proved.  There is a lot more experimenting to go with this fun new addition=
 to my toy box!  I really hope he markets this set. 
 
Les
    ==
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their lif=
e, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.http://sims.yahoo.com/=
 

5) From: miKe mcKoffee
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Just guessing, is he into "pecans"?
 
miKe  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Les
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 8:57 AM
One of the list members (who will remain anonymous until he reveals himself)
sent me a set of screens and a Mason Jar with the bottom cut out of it.  The
screens fit perfectly in the top with the ring and the hole is covered
perfectly with the top of the jar for shaking purposes.  I have done 3
screen tests over  the weekend, and getting rid of those fines dramatically
improves the quality of the cup in the Vac brewer and the Technovirm.  I
couldn't believe how crisp, clear, and layered the flavors were without
being muddied by the over extracted fines.  I think this is a big step up in
quality, and the flow through the Swiss Gold is much improved.  There is a
lot more experimenting to go with this fun new addition to my toy box!  I
really hope he markets this set. 
 
Les

6) From: Floyd Lozano
Certainly a great alternative to a many many hundred dollar grinder.  I seem
to recall discussion here before regarding the use of graduated screens to
get the right particle size (get rid of fines and boulders).  Cutting holes
in mason jars seems difficult - maybe a Pringles can would be better!
-F
On 8/13/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>

7) From: TERRY TITSWORTH
O.K. Les,
Now with the fines do we do Turkish? Always good to be somewhat fruggle...
TerryT
On 8/13/07, Les  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Start HOT and work your way Down...
Peppers AND Coffee.
[|:{O....[|:{U...
(I'm the tall guy in the middle)

8) From: Eddie Dove
I want a set.  I want to test.
Eddie
-- 
Vita non est vivere sed valere vita est
Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafehttp://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/On 8/13/07, Les  wrote:
<Snip>

9) From: Kevin
I want detailed design instructions!!  Pretty please??
I have such coffee envy!
-- 
My home coffee roasting blog:http://homecoffeeroastblog.blogspot.com/Kevin

10) From: Justin Marquez
A set like that could be used to test various grinders' results as to
percent of "dusty fines" produced from standard load of roasted coffee.
At last - Maybe a real shot at a definitive answer to the question of
"relative grinder quality"!
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
On 8/13/07, Les  wrote:
<Snip>

11) From: Leo Zick
what kind of grinder is being used?  maybe thats why there are a lot of
fine?
also, what % of the coffee is being tossed due to its being unusable?
On 8/13/07, Justin Marquez  wrote:
<Snip>

12) From: Doug Boutell
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
My grinder is a  mini mazzer with  with new burrs replaced 2 months ago.
All measurements  are made in grains , 480 gr in one oz.
my scales are accurate to 1/10 of a grain
My mazzer settings are 1.5 to 2 for espresso and the vac pot  5.8 to 6.5 
for grind size
I use 480 gr for my vac pot with  18 oz of water
The grounds are added after the water has risen up into the chamber.
 From past measurements the first inch of water the  was lowered to 180 
from boiling  and made for a sour taste
The heat being absorbed  by the top portion of the vac pot
the typical loss is  is  28-32 grains or 5.83% to 6.66%
In a visual terms about one  tablespoon
Doug
Leo Zick wrote:
<Snip>

13) From: Les
Terry,
I did put the fines in my espresso that followed the wonderful cups of Vac
brewed coffee.
Les
On 8/13/07, TERRY TITSWORTH  wrote:
<Snip>

14) From: Les
Leo,
I am using a Mazzer Major.  There has not been a lot of fines, it is just
nice to be rid of them!
Les
On 8/13/07, Leo Zick  wrote:
<Snip>

15) From: Les
Mike,
It is not Pecan Jim.  I guess if you look closely you will be able to deduce
that it is Doug who just posted a more scientific result of his
expermentations.
Les
On 8/13/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>

16) From: John Moody
Do I understand correctly; you screen the grinds out of a mazzer mini to rid
the fines, the loss is about ~6% by weight, and you brew with drip or
vacuum?
If that is correct, it sounds very close to something I wanted to try for
espresso.  A variation of the Weiss distribution technique where I would use
a shaker screen to produce the distribution, rather than by stirring with a
needle.  Do you have any opinion about the merit of such an approach?  I
wondered if static would make it impractical.
John

17) From: Leo Zick
amazing that you can taste a difference from removing fines in general, but
even moreso from a good grinder like that!
On 8/13/07, Les  wrote:
<Snip>

18) From: Brian Kamnetz
My response exactly, Leo. I could hardly be more surprised. It seems to me
that once a person starts screening for fines, the utility of a very high
quality grinder (as opposed to, say, a high quality grinder) declines.
Brian
On 8/13/07, Leo Zick  wrote:
<Snip>

19) From: Tom Ogren
Agree with Brian. If money were no object, you could use mortar and pestle
(or shoe soles for that matter) if you also had a high-dollar sieve
shaker.
Of course for the cost of those things you could get into high end espresso
gear, machine included. It would be fun, though, to dial in the perfect
extraction times/temps for each screen size. Maybe someday...maybe not.
TO in VA
On 8/13/07, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
<Snip>

20) From: raymanowen
I hope the strugal to be fruggle is not too stressful...
On 8/13/07, TERRY TITSWORTH  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976

21) From: John Moody
Not necessarily, it may not be the reduction of traditional fines of a =
lesser grinder resulting from crushing rather than slicing.
 
It may be an increase in % of cellular bean content relative to pulp and =
silverskin e.g., the stuff trapped inside the bean as shown in the =
image.
www.sweetmarias.com/defects_seedstructure/defects_seedstructure-Pages/Ima=
ge10.html =
 
 
I would expect most of that “stuff” to break up into =
smaller pieces as it’s ground.  Maybe that is much of what =
is being separated out?
 
John

22) From: TERRY TITSWORTH
My stress is not from struggle for fruggle, but for the stretch to the best.
The funds for the quality stuff has yet again fled, consumed by the monster
at the door, that monster called debt.
But at least I am setting on about 50 lbs. of pretty good greens. Assorted
SM's beans...
How goes things Ray?
TerryT
On 8/13/07, raymanowen  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Start HOT and work your way Down...
Peppers AND Coffee.
[|:{O....[|:{U...
(I'm the tall guy in the middle)

23) From: raymanowen
I'm on the same voyage, Terry. After word came down for us to stop
trying to be good workers, and to just be gone. "Dislocated," they
said, as if that badge would get you a free cup at 7-11.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
I thought I had a First Class ticket, but Titanic (Lucent) still went
down. I still got my Grinder...
On 8/13/07, TERRY TITSWORTH  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the
Mighty Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976

24) From: Doug Boutell
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Robert,
16 mesh is basically the screen door size.
I have 10 screens from 18 -60 mesh but I only use 5 sizes.
50,40, 35, 30,30,
my 1st series of testing  were done with the 35 mesh and I think Les 
used the same.
80 mesh will just let a   human hair thru for size comparison.
I do have enough  material left for 6 more sets from the samples  that I 
purchased.
If any one is interested email me off line
Doug
Robert Yoder wrote:
<Snip>

25) From: miKe mcKoffee
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
FWIW total lack of fines is not a goal in grinding for espresso but rather a
uniform variation in grind particles produced. Total lack of fines would not
allow for the puck to seal properly.
 
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
www.mcKonaKoffee.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/ 
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Tom Ogren
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 2:07 PM
Agree with Brian. If money were no object, you could use mortar and pestle
(or shoe soles for that matter) if you also had a high-dollar sieve shaker
 . Of course for the cost of those
things you could get into high end espresso gear, machine included. It would
be fun, though, to dial in the perfect extraction times/temps for each
screen size. Maybe someday...maybe not. 
TO in VA
On 8/13/07, Brian Kamnetz  wrote: 
My response exactly, Leo. I could hardly be more surprised. It seems to me
that once a person starts screening for fines, the utility of a very high
quality grinder (as opposed to, say, a high quality grinder) declines.
Brian 
On 8/13/07, Leo Zick < leo.zick  >
wrote: 
amazing that you can taste a difference from removing fines in general, but
even moreso from a good grinder like that!
On 8/13/07, Les <   les.albjerg>
wrote: 
Leo,
I am using a Mazzer Major.  There has not been a lot of fines, it is just
nice to be rid of them!
Les

26) From: Leo Zick
gonna back that up?
On 8/13/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>

27) From: Dan Bollinger
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I suppose it's all a matter of what is 'fine' to you. It's subjective, =
right? And isn't that the purpose of these screens, to see how fine the =
grind is, and how much is how fine?  To my way of thinking, if you are =
grinding to make espresso and keep sifting out the fines, eventually =
your grinder will be empty and you'll have nothing to put in your PF =
because you kept throwing out the good stuff! In other words ground =
coffee for espresso is ALL fines, and that's fine by me. ;) Dan

28) From: Leo Zick
lol, that was sort of the gist of my last reply, in the new fancy titled
thread
On 8/13/07, Dan Bollinger  wrote:
<Snip>

29) From: Les
Dan,
No.  Actually the discussion that Doug and I had on the phone was over
the issue of uniform size for vac pot, french press, and drip.  As
Mike pointed out with espresso you do need some fines for sealing.
Your largest size vs fines is proportionally smaller in espresso, thus
having less affect on the extraction.  The buzz about inferior grinder
and screening is a bit of a stretch too.  I am not culling that many
fines compared to what it would be if I had a poor grinder.  I may
borrow a mid-range grinder to just see the difference.  As I said,
this was just a perliminary report.  For me the proof is in the cup.
When I see my wife going for a second cup in the morning, I know that
I have done something to improve the quality of the coffee.  She was
not told about the screening and has commented on how much better the
coffee has been the last 3 days.  Up to this point I have only been
trying to get rid of the fines that will over extract in relation to
the majority of the size of the ground coffee.
Les
On 8/13/07, Dan Bollinger  wrote:
<Snip>

30) From: Scott Marquardt
I tinkered with this a while back, using various mesh from McMaster -- all
under 1000 microns.
That it improves brew should be obvious from theory alone. I haven't yet
reached that conclusion empirically, but then I'm a dull-palated sot.
I too used a Mason jar, though I've concluded that my original idea would've
worked a lot better -- a squirrel cage of mesh. However, I couldn't think of
a convenient way of fabricating that, and I've been way too busy for way too
long to get to that (along with a dozen other projects that will just never
happen).
It just takes a LOT of effort to shake the jar. I think having one of those
vibration analysis shakers on hand would be darned nice for such tests.
- Scott
On 8/13/07, Les  wrote:
<Snip>

31) From: Scott Marquardt
Dang, forgot to add -- yeah, the notion of redeeming cheap grinders is
fascinating. And another thing -- removing fines doesn't need to mean
throwing them away. For example, in a Chemex they could be returned to the
slurry for the last half-minute of extraction.
It'd be interesting if this kind of feature were built into grinders. I've
thought of retrofitting my SMP with a shaker screen of about 500 microns,
but that's one of those dozen projects.    ;-)
- S
On 8/14/07, Scott Marquardt  wrote:
<Snip>

32) From: Brett Mason
Makes one incredible sprinkling on top of Chocolate Ice Cream...
Brett
On 8/14/07, Scott Marquardt  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

33) From: Tom Ogren
This is cool. I emailed to inquire about the least expensive sieve analysis
shaker offered by these folks and check out the
productto which
I was pointed. Interesting that I made no mention of coffee in my
email to them.
TO in VA
On 8/13/07, Tom Ogren  wrote:
<Snip>

34) From: Tom Ogren
$200 for the linked product. Still not cheap enough for me but some might
feel otherwise, so...
On 8/15/07, Tom Ogren  wrote:
<Snip>

35) From: Scott Marquardt
That is an EXTREMELY cool product.
Add that to the Brix tester that Alan Adler has me wanting, and I need a
higher paying job.
- S
On 8/15/07, Tom Ogren  wrote:
<Snip>


HomeRoast Digest