HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Plurimodal grind for espresso > RE: +screen test (16 msgs / 391 lines)
1) From: miKe mcKoffee
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
"Espresso Coffee The Science of Quality" 2nd Edition Andrea Illy &
Rinantonio Viani ch5 paragraph 4 reads in part:
"Thus, espresso percolation needs a plurimodal particle size distribution,
where the finer particles enhance the exposed extraction surface (chemical
need) and the coarser ones allow the water to flow (physical need)."
 
Do your own research and study and you'll find many other espresso
authorities saying similar things. I don't know nearly enough to make this
stuff up...
 
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
www.mcKonaKoffee.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/ 
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Leo Zick
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 5:58 PM
gonna back that up?
On 8/13/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote: 
FWIW total lack of fines is not a goal in grinding for espresso but rather a
uniform variation in grind particles produced. Total lack of fines would not
allow for the puck to seal properly.

2) From: Leo Zick
my understanding is not to deliberately create fines (which slow down pour
times and produce acidity in the beginning of an extraction, since they
settle to the bottom of the puck).  rather, since there will inevitably be
fines, have a grinder that is good enough to create a very tight
distribution of particles.  this allows consistency to be maintained - more
important in tuning in shot grind settings, temp settings, etc.
On 8/13/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>

3) From: miKe mcKoffee
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Absolutely both my posts specifically referenced espresso extraction. 
 
miKe  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Robert Yoder
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 6:45 PM
"Plurimodal particle size distribution"!!!  Lovely!  (Wonder how I can work
that one into my next conversation.) This argument does not seem to
controvert the finding that fines could degrade the products of
non-pressurized brewing methods, IMHO.  Here's room for more investigation.
This is great stuff!
happy sipping to all,
robert yoder  
From: "miKe mcKoffee" 
Reply-To: homeroast
To: homeroast
"Espresso Coffee The Science of Quality" 2nd Edition Andrea Illy &
Rinantonio Viani ch5 paragraph 4 reads in part:
"Thus, espresso percolation needs a plurimodal particle size distribution,
where the finer particles enhance the exposed extraction surface (chemical
need) and the coarser ones allow the water to flow (physical need)."
 
Do your own research and study and you'll find many other espresso
authorities saying similar things. I don't know nearly enough to make this
stuff up...  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Leo Zick
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 5:58 PM
gonna back that up?
On 8/13/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote: 
FWIW total lack of fines is not a goal in grinding for espresso but rather a
uniform variation in grind particles produced. Total lack of fines would not
allow for the puck to seal properly.

4) From: Floyd Lozano
when you think about it, makes perfect sense.  the best packing you can hope
to achieve in a box, for example, of uniformly sized marbles still leaves
lots of space.  If you can use smaller marbles, or BBs, to fill in those
spots, you get a tighter packing.  the theory then is to have uniform
particle size, but only a couple different sizes, so you get tight packing,
but still allow water to pass through and surround the particles completely
for even extraction.  The trick is just to pack 'em all in that little metal
cup just so...
-F
On 8/13/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>

5) From: Justin Marquez
"Knowing" is not necessary for making stuff up.  "Gall" is the only rfeal
requirement.
heheheh
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
On 8/13/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
--

6) From: Sandy Andina
--Apple-Mail-5-455953978
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Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset-ASCII;
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	format=flowed
Sounds suspiciously to me like someone's trying to put a positive  
spin on his purchase of a crappy grinder....oh wait a minute--ILLY is  
saying this? Who knew?
On Aug 13, 2007, at 8:12 PM, miKe mcKoffee wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
--Apple-Mail-5-455953978
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset-ASCII
Sounds suspiciously to me like =
someone's trying to put a positive spin on his purchase of a crappy =
grinder....oh wait a minute--ILLY is saying this? Who =
knew?
On Aug 13, 2007, at 8:12 PM, miKe mcKoffee =
wrote:
"Espresso Coffee The Science of Quality" 2nd Edition Andrea = Illy & Rinantonio Viani ch5 paragraph 4 reads in = part: "Thus, espresso percolation needs a plurimodal particle size = distribution, where the finer particles enhance the exposed extraction = surface (chemical need) and the coarser ones allow the water to flow = (physical need)." Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-5-455953978--

7) From: Tom Ulmer
Even though I'm not quite sure exactly what is meant by Plurimodal Grinding
other than a vague marketing statement by MPE in Chicago, it has always been
my contention that in order to produce a quality extraction that percolation
and friction loss must be considered.

8) From: Dan Bollinger
Tom, It suggests that the distribution of the grounds is not your typical 
bell-shaped frequency curve, but rather one with two or more 'humps.'  Dan
<Snip>

9) From: Justin Marquez
Sounds suspiciously to me that the writer of the phrase used to work for the
IRS writing instructions for tax forms...
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
On 8/14/07, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>
--

10) From: Brett Mason
COme on Justin - he's only there to help....
Brett
On 8/14/07, Justin Marquez  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

11) From: Angelo
Not wishing to sound heretical, I have to say that I am suspicious of 
any "authority" who has a vested commercial interest in the outcome 
of his experiments. Illy sells coffee all over the world. It is to 
his advantage that customers see him as an authority on the product 
he is selling them.
A
<Snip>

12) From: miKe mcKoffee
Yes, I'd be suspicious too of coffee greens reviews written by someone like
Tom with a vested interested in selling coffee greens. Doesn't matter that
countless other professionals in the field consider the individuals in
question as very credible...
Oh, if you've actually read (or are slowly wading through) "Espresso Coffee
The Science of Quality" you might note it's seemingly PhD level stuff
written with copious references to a huge number of studies done by others.
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
www.mcKonaKoffee.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
<Snip>

13) From: Scott Marquardt
Scroll down quite a bit here for a graph showing this kind of distribution:http://www.home-barista.com/forums/titan-grinder-project-t4126.htmlOn 8/14/07, Dan Bollinger  wrote:
<Snip>

14) From: Leo Zick
ive followed that thread, kind of interesting.  i cant imagine ill ever have
a 'titan' grinder for my house, but hopefully some useful data comes from
it.  the graphs teme provided dont really explain much at all, other than,
there is a difference in particle sizes.
i still stand to reason thats its not the intentional introduction of fines
that are desired, but rather a tight distribution of particle sizes. this
makes things easier to control and more predictable.
On 8/15/07, Scott Marquardt  wrote:
<Snip>

15) From: Robert Yoder
Thanks, Scott, for posting a link to this project!
I'm not clear on the absence of a Versalab, (but haven't finished reading 
yet).
robert yoder
<Snip>
More photos, more messages, more storageóget 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocidT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507

16) From: raymanowen
"...espresso percolation needs a plurimodal particle size distribution,
where the finer particles enhance the exposed extraction surface (chemical
need) and the coarser ones allow the water to flow (physical need)-"
Somehow, this is just all rong. It's ludicrous on its face and fails logical
examination.
In my book, the foregoing palaver might be a thinly-veiled apology for
foisting off the results of a Gritty Shinder as some sort of miscreant
coffee. While the surprising truth is that espresso coffee brewing does
involve percolation in the strict sense, *percolation* concerns the movement
and filtering  of fluids through
porous materials. This El Cheapo excuse for a  grinder makes no reference to
the standardization of sizes within the particle size distribution, and
assumes just two different standard sizes exist.
In the natural, uncontrolled state, the size and shape of any porous media
might vary widely, as in volcanic ejecta.  When the whole PF package of
coffee grounds, from dust particle size to bowling balls to Packard engine
block size is subjected to the same packing pressure, the finer particles
would pack tightly, block fluid flow, and not extract. For the same reason,
there would be retarded flow but no pressure among the coarser particulate.
If the fines block the flow, there will be no flow past the coarse Packard
blocks. You could get a grinder that develops regular shapes and sizes of
coffee grounds.
Similarly, the kaleidoscopic grinder would tend to create flow
stratification through the coffee media, if the flow weren't totally blocked
in the first place
You have to learn the code. Unsubstantiated singular statements need to be
decoded and or demultiplexed. When you demultiplex Pferdescheisse
statements, you get the Truth and the Other. The ability to assemble words
using a thesaurus might sell books, but it doesn't substitute for a basic
understanding of coffee brewing
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
Lose the thesaurus, get a real grinder.


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