HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Semi-OT: Livia still misbehaving :( (24 msgs / 1277 lines)
1) From: Sandy Andina
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After being told by Shop Espresso Friday afternoon that (after more  
than a month) I could come pick up my Livia 90A this morning, my  
housekeeper confirmed with them and headed out there this morning at  
the appointed time on the way to my house.  When she got there, they  
wouldn't answer the doorbell until she called them on her cell. When  
she was let inside, they explained they tried to call me earlier (I  
was asleep and at any rate wouldn't have been able to head her off),  
but that when they turned the machine on this morning it would not  
stop running water out the grouphead--EXACTLY the primary symptom it  
displayed when I brought it in!! They explained that now they would  
have to take the grouphead apart and don't know how long that will take.
I am FURIOUS! When I brought it in, they assured me their $250 rate  
(which I had to prepay) includes a teardown, tune-up and replacement  
of all screens and gaskets. First, they told me it was a bad  
pressurestat. Then they said it was the 3-way solenoid valve. Then  
they said it was still leaking and needed a 3--cent o-ring, which  
they could only buy in bulk and their supplier shipped only  
occasionally. Now they tell me they're FIRST going to take apart the  
grouphead? They should have done that as part of the teardown.  And I  
more than suspect that will not cure the problem--my bet is on the  
logic board that controls the water dosage.  (It's an auto with  
membrane switches, rather than a semi-auto with rockers, the latter  
of which would not require a computer chip).
I can't believe Pasquini recommended these guys!!!  Thank goodness I  
still have my Silvia (slight PITA to temp-surf, but I do have the  
hang of it and can bang out a pair of lattes before having to surf  
back up and refill the boiler).
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
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After being told by Shop =
Espresso Friday afternoon that (after more than a month) I could come =
pick up my Livia 90A this morning, my housekeeper confirmed with them =
and headed out there this morning at the appointed time on the way to my =
house.  When she got there, they wouldn't answer the doorbell until =
she called them on her cell. When she was let inside, they explained =
they tried to call me earlier (I was asleep and at any rate wouldn't =
have been able to head her off), but that when they turned the machine =
on this morning it would not stop running water out the =
grouphead--EXACTLY the primary symptom it displayed when I brought it =
in!! They explained that now they would have to take the grouphead apart =
and don't know how long that will take.
I am FURIOUS! When I = brought it in, they assured me their $250 rate (which I had to prepay) = includes a teardown, tune-up and replacement of all screens and gaskets. = First, they told me it was a bad pressurestat. Then they said it was the = 3-way solenoid valve. Then they said it was still leaking and needed a = 3--cent o-ring, which they could only buy in bulk and their supplier = shipped only occasionally. Now they tell me they're FIRST going to take = apart the grouphead? They should have done that as part of the = teardown.  And I more than suspect that will not cure the problem--my = bet is on the logic board that controls the water dosage.  (It's an = auto with membrane switches, rather than a semi-auto with rockers, the = latter of which would not require a computer chip).
I can't believe Pasquini = recommended these guys!!!  Thank goodness I still have my Silvia = (slight PITA to temp-surf, but I do have the hang of it and can bang out = a pair of lattes before having to surf back up and refill the = boiler). Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-7-506121596--

2) From: Leo Zick
water runs as soon as its turned on?  that is odd. is the pump running when
it does this?  im with you, logic board makes sense, if the pump
automatically comes on..
On 8/14/07, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>

3) From: Sandy Andina
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On Aug 14, 2007, at 2:27 PM, Leo Zick wrote:
<Snip>
Yup. That was the first symptom it displayed.  At first, turning it  
on and off seemed to help, but after a day or two, it didn't--and  
then the pressure gauge needle kept going into the red as the boiler  
refilled, then dropped and "chattered" as went back up as the boiler  
kept cycling, and then suddenly it shot all the way to the right and  
the pump began running.
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
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On Aug 14, 2007, =
at 2:27 PM, Leo Zick wrote:
water runs as soon = as its turned on?  that is odd. is the pump running when it does = this?  im with you, logic board makes sense, if the pump automatically = comes on..Yup. That was the first symptom it = displayed.  At first, turning it on and off seemed to help, but after = a day or two, it didn't--and then the pressure gauge needle kept going = into the red as the boiler refilled, then dropped and "chattered" as = went back up as the boiler kept cycling, and then suddenly it shot all = the way to the right and the pump began running. Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-9-506824379--

4) From: Sandy Andina
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Should mention that the logic board was the first thing I suggested  
when I brought the machine in, and they dismissed it.  Normally,  
heuristic thinking works for diagnosing both machines and people, but  
it's that 10% of the time when thoroughly ruling stuff in or out  
rather than just trying to fix the most common or easiest problem is  
the way to go.
On Aug 14, 2007, at 2:27 PM, Leo Zick wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
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Should mention that the logic =
board was the first thing I suggested when I brought the machine in, and =
they dismissed it.  Normally, heuristic thinking works for diagnosing =
both machines and people, but it's that 10% of the time when thoroughly =
ruling stuff in or out rather than just trying to fix the most common or =
easiest problem is the way to go.
On Aug 14, 2007, at 2:27 =
PM, Leo Zick wrote:
water runs = as soon as its turned on?  that is odd. is the pump running when it = does this?  im with you, logic board makes sense, if the pump = automatically comes on.. Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-11-507438249--

5) From: Tom Ulmer
These fellows appear to be buffoons and void of common ethics. I wish you
well in retrieving dear Livia soon and without consequence.

6) From: raymanowen
I fix stuff myself, in addition to setting up and calibrating
instrumentation for oil shale research in a previous iteration of life. A
lot of "troubleshooting" time is spent duplicating the original, stated
problem.
It's hard to imagine the Three Stooges could set up a repair shop without
any inkling of diagnostic aptitude. When I've found myself in the
embarrassing position of Moe or Curly, there was no Larry to blame. Ray was
the imbecile!
Sometimes, when it appears magic is involved and you've been burned in
effigy, go to the electrical schematic and think of when it was that the
performance glitch started, What happened just before that?
Magic in electrical controls usually involves an electrical supply polarity
problem, or a faulty electrical supply ground. Since it's unique to the
machine and a little random, is it possible the electric power cord or plug
has been damaged or the cord itself kinked?
Of course, never use any kind of extension cord or plug adapter with your
machine. Try to use a dedicated circuit to power a big home espresso
machine. While you're at it, why not just have an electric dryer circuit
installed?
I'm sure the Livia can be jumped internally for 240v operation, and the
dryer circuit is such a common electrical upgrade, electricians should be
quite competitive pricewise.
One of the internal electrical power connections in your Livia may have been
overstressed, like someone tripped over the power cord, and the connection
was loosened.
The Green Ground wire terminal warrants your special attention. They're
never connected with quick disconnect slip-on connectors. At least in Ray's
factory, the ground is always connected to a ring terminal under a screw on
the metal chassis.
This minimizes Death and Injury, and uncommanded operations. If this helps,
have a double on me. If not, Keep Fishing!
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
On 8/14/07, Tom Ulmer  wrote:
<Snip>

7) From: Brian Kamnetz
Ray,
Is there a difference between an electric dryer circuit and an electric
stove circuit?
Brian
On 8/14/07, raymanowen  wrote:
<Snip>

8) From: miKe mcKoffee
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
There wouldn't seem to be a difference but gotta tell you, last time I got
confused between the two the towels burned up and the biscotti tumbled to
pieces...:-)
 
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
www.mcKonaKoffee.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/ 
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Brian Kamnetz
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 3:54 PM
Ray,
Is there a difference between an electric dryer circuit and an electric
stove circuit? 
Brian

9) From: Sandy Andina
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We did have Livia on the same fully grounded circuit (with GFIs) as  
the microwave and toaster oven but never operated (or even turned on)  
more than one of them at any given time.  Plugged straight into a  
massive heavy-duty surge suppressor, with no extension cords or  
timers in the chain of power. The cord, plug and suppressor were in  
such a place that it was impossible to yank them, trip over them, or  
subject them to mischievous kitties.  Nothing happened the day  
before, when I turned the machine off, until I turned it on one  
morning and it wouldn't stop running water out the group. No  
lightning spikes, no outages, no tripped breakers. Had no problem for  
more than two years, and there were no power outages or surges except  
during this summer's heat waves. (Didn't have to mess with the  
breakers for just about that long). I am not about to pay hundreds of  
dollars to bring in another 220 or 240 line and I am certainly not  
about to futz with the machine's internal electronics to convert it  
from 110.  If I wanted a 220 or 240 volt machine, I'd have bought one  
and plumbed it in to boot.  Electrical connections and switches,  
especially internal ones subjected to heat and vibration, have a  
limited lifespan. I have had laptop logic boards and laptop (and a  
desktop) hard drives suddenly go bad. I asked techs what I did wrong,  
and they replied, "You looked at it funny."
S**t happens.  My complaint is that the repairmen were apparently  
looking for s**t in the refrigerator and not the toilet bowl.
On Aug 14, 2007, at 5:47 PM, raymanowen wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
--Apple-Mail-16-522148316
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We did have Livia on the same =
fully grounded circuit (with GFIs) as the microwave and toaster oven but =
never operated (or even turned on) more than one of them at any given =
time.  Plugged straight into a massive heavy-duty surge suppressor, =
with no extension cords or timers in the chain of power. The cord, plug =
and suppressor were in such a place that it was impossible to yank them, =
trip over them, or subject them to mischievous kitties.  Nothing =
happened the day before, when I turned the machine off, until I turned =
it on one morning and it wouldn't stop running water out the group. No =
lightning spikes, no outages, no tripped breakers. Had no problem for =
more than two years, and there were no power outages or surges except =
during this summer's heat waves. (Didn't have to mess with the breakers =
for just about that long). I am not about to pay hundreds of dollars to =
bring in another 220 or 240 line and I am certainly not about to futz =
with the machine's internal electronics to convert it from 110.  If I =
wanted a 220 or 240 volt machine, I'd have bought one and plumbed it in =
to boot.  Electrical connections and switches, especially internal =
ones subjected to heat and vibration, have a limited lifespan. I have =
had laptop logic boards and laptop (and a desktop) hard drives suddenly =
go bad. I asked techs what I did wrong, and they replied, "You looked at =
it funny."
S**t happens. = My complaint is that the repairmen were apparently looking for s**t in = the refrigerator and not the toilet bowl. On Aug = 14, 2007, at 5:47 PM, raymanowen = wrote:
Sometimes, when it appears magic is involved and = you've been burned in effigy, go to the electrical schematic and think = of when it was that the performance glitch started, What happened just = before that? Magic in electrical controls usually involves an = electrical supply polarity problem, or a faulty electrical supply = ground. Since it's unique to the machine and a little random, is it = possible the electric power cord or plug has been damaged or the cord = itself kinked? Of course, never use any kind of extension cord = or plug adapter with your machine. Try to use a dedicated circuit to = power a big home espresso machine. While you're at it, why not just have = an electric dryer circuit installed? I'm sure the Livia can be = jumped internally for 240v operation, and the dryer circuit is such a = common electrical upgrade, electricians should be quite competitive = pricewise. One of the internal electrical power connections in = your Livia may have been overstressed, like someone tripped over the = power cord, and the connection was loosened.
Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-16-522148316--

10) From: raymanowen
I think the electric range circuit would be overkill, because it can handle
50a at 240v. You could sure use it. It would work just fine if you have a
spare range circuit. It is also a very common procedure, but would cost a
bit more to have one installed due to its double current capacity.
If you use either circuit for an espresso machine, you'll have about 225v -
245v, which is fine for a "220v" espresso machine. When you get a round
tuit, just swap out the circuit breaker for one with an "ampacity" or
current trip rating just slightly above the normal surge current of the
espresso machine.
If the espresso machine shorts out, you want to protect it, not cremate it.
The original dryer c/b would be alright, but the 50a electric range circuit
breaker is too big to protect the espresso machine.
With either circuit, you don't have to use the 225v - 240v. That's the
potential between the two line wires. Use just either of the line wires and
the white neutral wire for 120v.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
On 8/14/07, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
<Snip>

11) From: miKe mcKoffee
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
True enough, though does depend on the espresso machine. But even the Linea
3grp I have coming only needs 30a. However the 4grp wants a 40a and the
special order 5grp does push 50a IIRC! Hey, since it's a Livia "90" it must
need 90a:-)
 
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
www.mcKonaKoffee.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/ 
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of
raymanowen
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 4:59 PM
I think the electric range circuit would be overkill, because it can handle
50a at 240v. You could sure use it. It would work just fine if you have a
spare range circuit. It is also a very common procedure, but would cost a
bit more to have one installed due to its double current capacity. 
If you use either circuit for an espresso machine, you'll have about 225v -
245v, which is fine for a "220v" espresso machine. When you get a round
tuit, just swap out the circuit breaker for one with an "ampacity" or
current trip rating just slightly above the normal surge current of the
espresso machine. 
If the espresso machine shorts out, you want to protect it, not cremate it.
The original dryer c/b would be alright, but the 50a electric range circuit
breaker is too big to protect the espresso machine.
With either circuit, you don't have to use the 225v - 240v. That's the
potential between the two line wires. Use just either of the line wires and
the white neutral wire for 120v. 
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?

12) From: DJ Garcia
I think the buzzer in the dryer is louder and needs a heftier circuit =
... I
also think, therefore I err ...
DJ

13) From: miKe mcKoffee
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Indeed doo-doo occurs and trouble-shooting is as much an art as science,
based on a couple decades field computer service and later working on
espresso machines. Based on the symptoms of turning on then instantly Livia
"thinking" it's supposed to constantly pull a shot tells me to start by
looking at why Livia can't think straight. Not only is Livia telling the
pump to engage for a shot but it's AV (Automatic Volumetric) logic 'taint
working either or it'd stop puking water after reaching one of the
programmed shot volumes. 
 
Whatever you do, don't let them get away with CHARGING you additional for
LEARNING to work on the Livia! 
 
Oh, and it could just be a Gremlin decided to take up residence looking for
free espresso.:-)
 
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
www.mcKonaKoffee.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/ 
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Sandy Andina
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 4:48 PM
We did have Livia on the same fully grounded circuit (with GFIs) as the
microwave and toaster oven but never operated (or even turned on) more than
one of them at any given time. Plugged straight into a massive heavy-duty
surge suppressor, with no extension cords or timers in the chain of power.
The cord, plug and suppressor were in such a place that it was impossible to
yank them, trip over them, or subject them to mischievous kitties. Nothing
happened the day before, when I turned the machine off, until I turned it on
one morning and it wouldn't stop running water out the group. No lightning
spikes, no outages, no tripped breakers. Had no problem for more than two
years, and there were no power outages or surges except during this summer's
heat waves. (Didn't have to mess with the breakers for just about that
long). I am not about to pay hundreds of dollars to bring in another 220 or
240 line and I am certainly not about to futz with the machine's internal
electronics to convert it from 110. If I wanted a 220 or 240 volt machine,
I'd have bought one and plumbed it in to boot. Electrical connections and
switches, especially internal ones subjected to heat and vibration, have a
limited lifespan. I have had laptop logic boards and laptop (and a desktop)
hard drives suddenly go bad. I asked techs what I did wrong, and they
replied, "You looked at it funny." 
S**t happens. My complaint is that the repairmen were apparently looking for
s**t in the refrigerator and not the toilet bowl.
 

14) From: Floyd Lozano
My suggestion is to pay with a big name credit card like Discover or
Citibank and dispute the charge if they bill you for the learning
experience.  The first $250 you agreed to was maybe steep but possibly
fair.  Anything else is not Scottish.  Any reputable repair shop that stands
behind their work will apologize profusely and bend over backwards to make
it right.  Credit card disputes are for the other kind of repair shop.
-F
On 8/14/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>

15) From: Sandy Andina
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They don't take plastic and insisted on payment in advance. They came  
highly recommended by Pasquini and were the only game in town, so I  
was over a barrel.   I will definitely dispute them if they charge me  
for the learning experience (but I'd expect to have to pay extra for  
a new logic board if that was the cause--those don't normally need to  
be replaced as part of a garden-variety repair, and I'd have been  
charged for it even if that was the first thing they suspected). If  
they refused to return my machine,  I would have to litigate in small  
claims court to get my machine back and prove that any claimed  
mechanic's lien is unwarranted (and, I contend, has already been  
satisfied by the $250).
On Aug 15, 2007, at 7:40 AM, Floyd Lozano wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
--Apple-Mail-26-608602901
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They don't take plastic and =
insisted on payment in advance. They came highly recommended by Pasquini =
and were the only game in town, so I was over a barrel.   I will =
definitely dispute them if they charge me for the learning experience =
(but I'd expect to have to pay extra for a new logic board if that was =
the cause--those don't normally need to be replaced as part of a =
garden-variety repair, and I'd have been charged for it even if that was =
the first thing they suspected). If they refused to return my machine,  =
I would have to litigate in small claims court to get my machine back =
and prove that any claimed mechanic's lien is unwarranted (and, I =
contend, has already been satisfied by the $250).On =
Aug 15, 2007, at 7:40 AM, Floyd Lozano wrote:
My = suggestion is to pay with a big name credit card like Discover or = Citibank and dispute the charge if they bill you for the learning = experience.  The first $250 you agreed to was maybe steep but possibly = fair.  Anything else is not Scottish.  Any reputable repair shop = that stands behind their work will apologize profusely and bend over = backwards to make it right.  Credit card disputes are for the other = kind of repair shop. -F   On 8/14/07, miKe = mcKoffee <mcKona> = wrote:  = Whatever you do, don't let them get away with CHARGING = you additional for LEARNING to work on the Livia! = = Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-26-608602901--

16) From: Justin Marquez
I think they'd be pretty dang stoooopid to jerk you around.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
On 8/15/07, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>

17) From: raymanowen
"I'd expect to have to pay extra for a new logic board if that was the
cause..."
I have enclosed a certain statement in double quotation marks. Humor me.
Never allow that sequence of words, or the effect, to issue forth from your
lips in the hearing of the Hammer Mechanic guessing your needed repairs.
Those enabling remarks will encourage the employee to use the "shotgun"
troubleshooting method to effect a repair.
It's saddening that anyone in the alleged repair shop said "you looked at i=
t
rong," to explain the probable First Cause of your problem. That statement
proves that he never understood any repair he has ever made, and ĦHe Neve=
r
Looked At It Right!
If you make the same intimation I quoted, you >Will< drop for a new logic
board. Please ask them to save and return all the bad parts. The Livia
belongs to you in the first place, so the bad parts belong to you, prima
facie. Old parts are not rebuilt, and there is no core charge.
If the Stooges replace the logic board, I guarantee there will be "other ba=
d
parts" needing replacement. Everything taken out of Sandy's machine belongs
to Sandy- get 'em back.
There's no guarantee the bad parts you get back ever came out of your
machine- that's why the jugheads won't allow you in their shop area.
My **Bronco
is a case in point.
I've never worked on fuel injection before, but I have a vague idea of how
pumps work. They don't suck. The thing was vapor locking big time. The
weather was warmer when I drove home from Lucent than when I drove in at
night. I replaced the tank pump and the problem disappeared.
I have no desire to ever do that again- you have to be a monkey's uncle and
a Sadist. Some subsequent Clobber Heads invoiced me for the same pump on a
tune-up to make it run smoother [it didn't]. "It'll run real smooth as soon
as you refill the gas tank."
After I overcame the communications barrier, I got the "old" pump back, as =
I
had requested of all the old parts. Totally different POS than the new one =
I
had put in six months previous. It had the rong FoMoCo part number, of
course, mine had a NAPA part number.
This is not really Off Topic, I just wish you would have a better experienc=
e
than I with the damn repair frauds.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
On 8/15/07, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>
ver
<Snip>
e
<Snip>
nds
<Snip>
e
<Snip>

18) From: Brian Kamnetz
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Pgo=

19) From: Angelo
When sending something in for repair it would be wise to mark all parts 
with an ultra-violet identification kit (about $15-20). It seems like a 
daunting task, but you needn't put a long ID on the parts. Even a check 
or dot would tell you whether it was your part or not...
A
<Snip>

20) From: raymanowen
I like machines- if they work, they're as logical as mathematics. When
they break, or operate differently than you expect, they're still
logical and there's always a reason.
The failure Reason or first cause, always has a starting point. Some
part of the machine fails or degrades, and the performance
deteriorates. The deterioration always points to the degradation or
failure.
The "looked at it rong" Hammer Mechanic has a ring around the neck
syndrome and stares at hemorrhoids with a flashlight.
A $1500 electrical appliance shouldn't be fed electrical power on the
cheap. Don't feed it ground beef and expect a Filet Mignon dinner. Of
course, if it's acceptable for a $1500 machine to wet its pants or
exhibit some other foul behavior, continue to ignore the obvious.
One thing is certain: the logic board is an assembly of parts, just
like an automobile engine. I hope you never have a dirty fuel injector
and let Curly tell you the engine is bad.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
On 8/16/07, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
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-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the
Mighty Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976

21) From: miKe mcKoffee
<Snip>
True the logic board is an assembly of parts. Also true component level
repair of computer boards is virtually never done anymore. Surface mounted
massively intregrated circuitry precisely assembled by robots does not lend
itself to manual repair and hasn't for many years. Therefore your analogy to
the automobile engine falls apart.
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
www.mcKonaKoffee.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/

22) From: Sandy Andina
--Apple-Mail-40-820097274
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I was thinking the same thing.  If you need a new logic board for  
your car (and nearly all cars made in the last 10 years have them),  
unless your mechanic is also a computer-hardware hacker you will have  
to pay for a new logic board (or "onboard computer," as the industry  
now calls it). Now, granted, many advanced home roaster-baristi who  
are unfazed by PID'ing their machines or adding a thermocouple to  
their roasters will find tinkering with a logic board to be second  
nature, but the average espresso machine repairman is not a computer  
DIY'er--and buying the individual diodes or chips on an espresso  
machine logic board is probably darn near impossible.  Besides, I  
have yet to encounter even a computer repair tech who will  
troubleshoot, dissect and repair or replace an isolated component on  
a motherboard or daughtercard.
Yeesh.  For the first time in months, I'm arising this early in the  
morning, rather than being about to turn in just ahead of the  
sunrise. (Got a farmer's market concert gig way out in the western  
burbs). Appreciating that Monkey Blend more than ever right now!!!
On Aug 18, 2007, at 1:42 AM, miKe mcKoffee wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
--Apple-Mail-40-820097274
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charsetO-8859-1
I was thinking the same thing.  =
If you need a new logic board for your car (and nearly all cars made in =
the last 10 years have them), unless your mechanic is also a =
computer-hardware hacker you will have to pay for a new logic board (or =
"onboard computer," as the industry now calls it). Now, granted, many =
advanced home roaster-baristi who are unfazed by PID'ing their machines =
or adding a thermocouple to their roasters will find tinkering with a =
logic board to be second nature, but the average espresso machine =
repairman is not a computer DIY'er--and buying the individual diodes or =
chips on an espresso machine logic board is probably darn near =
impossible.  Besides, I have yet to encounter even a computer repair =
tech who will troubleshoot, dissect and repair or replace an isolated =
component on a motherboard or daughtercard.
Yeesh.  For the first = time in months, I'm arising this early in the morning, rather than being = about to turn in just ahead of the sunrise. (Got a farmer's market = concert gig way out in the western burbs). Appreciating that Monkey = Blend more than ever right now!!! On Aug 18, 2007, at 1:42 = AM, miKe mcKoffee wrote:
-----Original = Message-----From: homeroast-admin= s.sweetmarias.com [mailto:homeroast-adm= in] On Behalf Of raymanowenSent: Friday, August 17, 2007 2:46 PM One = thing is certain: the logic board is an assembly of parts, = justlike an automobile engine. I = hope you never have a dirty fuel injectorand let = Curly tell you the engine is bad. Cheers -RayO, aka Opa! = True the logic board is an assembly of parts. Also = true component levelrepair of computer boards = is virtually never done anymore. Surface mountedmassively intregrated circuitry precisely assembled = by robots does not lenditself to = manual repair and hasn't for many years. Therefore your analogy = tothe automobile engine falls apart. Pacific = Northwest Gathering VIhttp://home.comcast.ne=t/~mckona/PNWGVI.htm Kona Kurmudgeon miKe = mcKoffeewww.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes = etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimatelythe quest for Koffee Nirvana is a = solitary path. To know I mustfirst not = know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal = enlightenmentfound exploring the many = divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before. Sweet = Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/ homeroast mailing listhttp://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change your personal list settings (digest = options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings = Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-40-820097274--

23) From: Leo Zick
it wasnt an analogy of repairing the part, it was an analogy of poor
service. (and i know plenty of techs who will troubleshoot auto circuits.)
On 8/18/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>

24) From: raymanowen
Ahem-
"...true component level repair of computer boards is virtually never
done anymore.
Surface mounted massively intregrated circuitry precisely assembled by
robots does not lend itself to manual repair and hasn't for many
years."
But-
When the non-coffee-drinking robots start making misteaks on the
placement or orientation of a 168-pin smt DSP, and there are three of
them on the board, the guy testing the boards at the end just after
the cooling tunnel [Hello!] notices that the robots are just like the
Sorcerer's Apprentice of Paul Dukas.
If it's right for them, I hope I Like it that way 'cause they're
sending a bunch made exactly the same way. When they're good, they're
very, very good. Conversely, not so much. Not a good time to be
scratching one's head.
Speaking of coffee and robots that epoxy parts in place, the right
kind of burrs are a good thing in big coffee grinders. A random supply
of tin burrs in the assembly robot cause micro shorts in nasty places.
Oops- the Celtic Critic has spoken.
Time to check the ATM- does SSA think I'm retired yet?
Cheers and Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
On 8/18/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the
Mighty Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976


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