HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Zassenhaus Questions (26 msgs / 823 lines)
1) From: George Kennedy
Greetings gang!
I have been a “lurker” for a while now, but have been driven out from u=
nder my rock in search of answers regarding Zassenhaus. First, a bit of bac=
kground: I’ve been home-roasting for about a year and a half and really e=
njoying it. My wife is glad I got into it too. I’ve enjoyed your collecti=
ve wisdom—thank you. I’m a dyed-in-the-wool heatgun-dogbowler. I’m no=
t an espresso type guy. I drink my drip coffee with cream and sugar (don’=
t look at me that way, it frightens me). I brew with a Technivorm, tweaked =
the way I like it.
Understanding the blade/burr aspect of grinding, I began grinding with a Ca=
presso 551 flat-burr grinder. I know this is not a glamour grinder to you g=
uys, but it hasn’t been too bad. It grinds VERY evenly—no dust or fines=
 to speak of, and I have no trouble getting the particle size I want. But, =
pathetic coffee dweeb that I have become, I couldn’t help but wonder abou=
t that grinding speed thing. (I found a specification on the web that says =
my grinder rotates at 12,000 rpm! Though, that has to be unloaded—there i=
s no way it is turning that fast under load…) Could I get better flavor w=
ith a “better” grinder?
I figured I would try the holy grail, the Zassenhaus. Tired of hoping they =
would hit the market new again, I bid for one on Ebay from Europe and won i=
t. It is marked “153” on the bottom, but looks identical to the 154. It=
 seems immaculate and little, if at all, used. I have had it for a bit and =
have played with it and learned a few things. The first thing I learned is =
that turning the crank hundreds of times to produce one pot of coffee is ju=
st NOT for me. The second thing I learned is that I believe there is someth=
ing to this “grind slower” business. While the coffee from the Capresso=
 in no way smells burned, and yields better flavor than any coffee sourced =
from anywhere else so far, there is an added element of fresh aromatics to =
the dry grounds coming out of the Zassenhaus, so I suspect it will make a s=
uperior cup. I say “suspect” because I simply cannot get an acceptable =
grind with the Zassenhaus. Here’s the deal: the Zassenhaus produces a del=
icious-smelling, even, velvety, powder-like grind, which I suspect would ma=
ke superb espresso. But this grind is too fine for drip. If I attempt to ad=
just the “Z” for a drip-size grind (still considerably smaller than “=
industrial” drip-size grind), uniformity goes out the window—irregularl=
y shaped and sized particles with fines and dust, producing an unpredictabl=
e and bitter dripped cup. I’m probably just going to put it back up for a=
uction. Has anyone had this same experience? Is there a way to make it beha=
ve for drip grind? It just doesn’t seem to be made for it.
Also, the grind size seems to want to “creep” to finer. When you set it=
 up for a certain size, it seems to be even finer after you have ground 50 =
grams or so. Still quite uniform and probably great for espresso though. Co=
mments?
My thoughts now turn toward a Macap MC4 grinder…anyone have experience wi=
th them? Thanks!
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=-1000&scene=950607&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01=

2) From: Michael I
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
George,
I feel your pain (well, in my right arm, anyway).  I, too use a Zass, though
just for press pot, where, arguably I'm sure, uniformity of grind is a bit
less demanding.  There's definitely some creep on the thumbscrew.  I tend to
hold it with the hand that's holding the grinder, though some have put
something on it to help keep it in place (Loc-tite?).  I'm sure someone will
respond with that, or you can probably find it in the archives.
I'm very happy with the Zass, and, believe it or not, the reason that I have
it is because my workhorse grinder is a Macap M4 Stepless.  It's an amazing
grinder, and I really don't have anything bad to say about it.  But the
reason that I have the Zass is because the Macap is pretty much dedicated to
espresso grinding, which accounts for about 80% of my consumption.  And
changing from espresso to press pot (and back) on a stepless grinder is
quite a bit of work.  Not to mention having stray "big" grinds in with my
espresso grinds.  So, I bought a Zass for the press pot, and have been
pretty happy with it.
The other thing that's been mentioned on the list about "powering" a Zass is
using a drill.  You can take the screw and handle off of the top of the
grinder, and using a socket bit to turn it.  It's unlikely your drill is
going to turn it at 12k rpm.
The Zass' seem to be pretty well revered here on the list.  So I'm sure
you're going to get some folks (including me) encouraging you not to get rid
of it.  But based on the fact that you're mainly brewing for drip, if you
went with one of the more expensive grinders, you should definitely consider
getting one of the stepped, and probably doserless, ones.  
-AdkMike  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of George Kennedy
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 3:12 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: +Zassenhaus Questions
.
My thoughts now turn toward a Macap MC4 grinder.anyone have experience with
them? Thanks!

3) From: Rich Adams
Is the shaft wobbly?  Does the rotating burr have any side to side movement 
within the fixed burr?

4) From: Andy Meader
Hello George,
Does the Zass really seem to bite in when you turn it? There should be 
enough resistance while grinding that the side of the grinder opposite 
to where the handle is pointing should come off the table. Your "non 
turning" arm has to work to keep the grinder in position. Does the 
handle turn pretty freely regardless of where you adjust the coarseness? 
You should notice big changes in grinding resistance based on the 
coarseness of the grind. Take the top off your Zass, confirm that 
adjusting the coarseness is in fact moving the grinding mechanism up or 
down.
I ruined my first Zass with an unnoticed stone. After I wore out the 
burr grinder with that blasted stone my Zass behaved just as you 
described. While ruined, it took me over 10 minutes to grind enough 
coffee for a full pot in the Technivorm. While ruined I noticed the 
aroma was off also. A ruined Zass is a pain in the zAss.
I *just* got another new Zass on Monday. I can grind coffee in sub 5 
minutes again. I like how it causes me to slow down just a little and 
enjoy the morning and the coffee. If you are new to a Zass give yourself 
a week to get the hang of it...seriously.
Take care...
Andy
George Kennedy wrote:
<Snip>

5) From: John Brown
i have an old grain mill i have used to grind coffee in.  talk about 
static!!!!!  but it does do a very good job of grinding
Andy Meader wrote:
<Snip>

6) From: Rick Copple
I use a Zass for all my grinding. I use to mostly drink drip, though now 
my drip coffee maker is dead and I'm using a vac pot Yama all the way 
right now. Takes a little longer in the mornings to make coffee, but 
gives you plenty of time to grind while the water's heating up. And you 
can't get a better brew method, IMO.
Some of the top grinders will grind better than a Zass, and there has 
been talk of newer models that don't function as well. But, it has been 
known based on the way the unit is made, that the larger the size you 
"dial" in the more variance in grind size you will get. I think this is 
mostly due to the fact that the burr is not anchored in any way at the 
bottom, and so any movement from side to side created by the rotating 
arm can cause the burr to wobble ever so slightly at the bottom and 
result in more uneven grind. So the less room for movement, the less 
variance in size. Here is what I do to minimize that effect:
1. I dial in for drip at 1.125 rotations on the screw. I find the 
easiest way to do that is hold the Zass on a table with the front facing 
you. Put one hand on the screw and then turn the whole unit (the screw 
stays stationary) and use the sides and corners as "marks" to know where 
to stop, dividing the whole circle into 8 sections. So, 1.125 turns 
would be the first corner after you rotate it all the way around. 
Different Zasses could be slightly different in that way, but that seems 
to be the ideal spot for drip in my experience, on my Zass. That should 
at least give you a baseline to experiment from, 1/8th of a turn at a time.
2. I grind with the unit between my legs. I take a measuring cup for 
putting the grinds in (that little drawer won't hold a whole pots worth) 
and sit at the table. I put it between my legs. Why? When I first got 
it, I tried to do it on the counter. But I noticed that being on a 
solid, hard surface like that placed the whole force of the turning on 
the top of the bracket holding the burr in place. That creates more 
chance that the burr will move around down there. So my legs act as 
shock absorbers as it will give and move with the force of the turn, and 
I believe that creates less fines, in my experience dealing with one vac 
pot that was extremely sensitive to fines.
3. I use only the amount of pressure on the handle needed to grind the 
beans. IOW, I don't try to go as fast as I can with it, I only apply 
enough pressure as it takes to move the handle. The more crazy you go 
with it, the more likely you'll move the burr around and create a wider 
degree of grind sizes.
4. Once I have the grind size dialed in, I'll lay my left index finger 
over the screw as I grind to keep it from moving. You can also use some 
Loc-tite, however, that is spelled, to do that. I'm too lazy to go mess 
with something I know nothing about, and it is very easy just to hold 
the screw in place with my finger that I've never bothered. But this 
keeps it from changing the grind size on you as you grind.
I usually take around or under 3 minutes to grind for a pot. It may be 
under 2, I've not timed it before. I usually fill the hopper (I have an 
open hopper model) to near full. If your burr is damaged, and you may 
have to take it apart to tell for sure, that may account for the long 
time it takes to grind with it, if it takes you longer than this.
Also, make sure the screws holding down the bracket that holds the burr 
and shaft in place are tight and don't have any give to them. Loose 
screws could also cause a lot of wobble and create more uneven grinds.
Some have used a drill to motorize them. That can help in keeping grind 
size to a more uniform amount due to the fact there is less side-to-side 
pressure being exerted, so less wobbling of the burr (unless you are 
very shaky!) Keep in mind, however, that these burrs are not made with 
the expectation of rotating at high speeds. They are suppose to last for 
the life of the grinder, but that will wear them out before their time 
and will most likely nullify any warranty replacement unless you are 
able to fool the company, which I don't personally recommend.
Plus, you lose one of the advantages of the Zass over other grinders. 
Grinders that go fast create more heat and that can have an effect on 
the taste of the coffee. That's not a concern with the Zass unless you 
are going way too fast on the handle (in which case your grind is going 
to look horrible).
One other tip, don't press down on the handle. That creates more wobble 
in the burr. Try to keep the pressure on the handle to movement around 
the circle, not down or up. The pressure of the coffee beans on the burr 
as it grinds is suppose to keep the burr focused in a downward motion.
Hopefully that will help. But if the burr has been damaged by a rock or 
something else, or was bad to begin with, then the above may only 
minimally help. But you can take just the top of the grinder off by 
disconnecting the top of the wooden box from the body, and then you can 
inspect the bottom of the burr without having to disassemble the whole 
thing. Just a couple small screws, if I recall correctly.
-- 
Rick Copplehttp://www.rlcopple.com/

7) From: George Kennedy
I want to thank everyone who responded for there generous interest.  I'll t=
ry and answer all the questions:  I don't think my Zass is suffering from a=
 stone or any other damage.  The burrs are sharp.  It is tight, with no wob=
bles, play or looseness, so it does indeed bite into the beans well.
 
I believe, personally, that it just isn't really suited for grinding for dr=
ip.  I am suspecting that it has to do with design of the fineness adjustme=
nt nut.  It really only restricts movement of the grinding shaft in one of =
its two longitudinal directions. That is to say, it limits how far apart th=
e burrs can be, but never how close.  If, let's say, grinding speed affects=
 the quantity of bean mass between the burrs, then the burr clearance could=
 vary.  This suggests using a deliberate, constant grinding speed.  Ideally=
, the Zass design should lock the burrs at a given closeness regardless of =
beans.  The closer burrs for finer grinding for espresso appears to make th=
is problem negligible.
 
Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.  Thanks again for your help=
.  Wishing good coffee to everyone.
Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more….then map the best rout=
e!http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&ss=yp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20th=eater&cp=42.358996~-71.056691&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=
=-1000&scene=950607&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01=

8) From: raymanowen
If you: "don't think my Zass is suffering from a stone or any other damage.
The burrs are sharp.  It is tight, with no wobbles, play or looseness, so i=
t
does indeed bite into the beans well, [and]... that it just isn't really
suited for grinding for drip."
First, you describe a well designed grinder with negligible wear and good
burrs. Then you infer some design failure or wear problem.
How I wish I had to deal with such design flaws or mechanical deterioration=
.
One way to grind for drip is to measure out a quantity of beans into a cast
iron skillet and smack them with a hammer, maybe using a diesel engine
intake valve. Glass bead the valve and surface grind the head first, then
you decide when you're done making small coffee bean pieces out of large
ones. Toss the grounds into a drip brewer and push the button.
's OK? 's OK!
You'll definitely achieve greater success at a lower decibel level using th=
e
Zassenhaus grinder.
Good espresso grinders are the ones you use just before you fill the pf wit=
h
grounds for an espresso brew.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
On 8/17/07, George Kennedy < coffeenaut01> wrote:
<Snip>
m a
<Snip>
in
<Snip>
ed
<Snip>
nce
<Snip>
.pizza%7Eyp.movie%20theater&cp=42.358996%7E-71.056691&style=r&lvl=13&=
tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=950607&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01>
<Snip>
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Might=
y
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976

9) From: George Kennedy
Easy does it, Ray, it's just my opinion.  As good as I suspect the Zassenha=
us would be for espresso, I suspect it isn't well suited for drip.  I felt =
that this was worth mentioning to the group, since "Zassenhaus" seems to be=
 all but a religion of sorts.  My recommendation (admittedly of no authorit=
y whatsoever) would be to save your money for something else for drip grind=
ing.
 
You might want to cut back on the coffee a few cups before writing.  A bit =
over the top, aren't we?  To be clear: I'm not inferring anything; I'm not =
even implying anything. You are concluding that because I feel my Zass is u=
ndamaged, that I am describing a well-designed grinder.  This does not logi=
cally follow.  I am saying it is not malfunctioning.  Whether it is well-de=
signed, or designed to be multi-functional, would be other questions.
See what you’re getting into…before you go therehttp://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507=

10) From: Brett Mason
My suspicion is that Zassenhaus works great for drip.  But then I've been
saying that for a very long time.  I've owned 5 of them over the last few
years.  I use my 151 every day at the office.  My 499 is at home, and also
my travel kit.
I have to compare between:
  Zass 499
  Zass 151
  Cory Grindmaster
  Rancilio Rocky
  Armin Trosser
  Melitta whirleyblade
SO, maybe I sound like a religious nut.  But I have put my money into
several grinders, and much other equipment.  I have a foundation for taking
a stance, which should help support such an opinion.
But don't just take my word - I am an amateur.  Consider Tom - he works at
Sweet Maria's... http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.zas.shtmlcan give you an
idea as well - yeah I know, he mentions grinding for drip, among others...
Hey, George, glad you're on the list, but give some of us some credit for
thinking as well...
Brett
On 8/23/07, George Kennedy  wrote:
<Snip>
.
<Snip>
ems
<Snip>
t
<Snip>
t
<Snip>
ns.
<Snip>
hotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507>
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

11) From: Rick Copple
Like Brett, I've never had any problems grinding for drip with my Zass. 
My feeling is if it is taking you more than 2-3 minutes to grind for a 
pot of coffee, something is likely wrong with the Zass. If the drip 
isn't tasting good using it, there could be other factors we're not 
aware of, but if the taste problem is due to the grinder, then something 
is wrong with the grinder.
But the important thing is whatever works for you. But in general, I 
would have to say the Zass works great for drip. I even use it in my vac 
pot without a problem at a courser grind than drip, and it is delicious.
-- 
Rick Copple

12) From: George Kennedy
Hi, Brett.  I assure you, I respect everybody's brains.  People have been g=
enerous with their responses (and I thank everyone again).  I stand by my o=
pinion, but let's close the book on this question; there's no point in argu=
ing a "religion" point, nor even bringing in its respective priesthood.  Ju=
st for the record though: what appeared to be my final sentence in my last =
post, "see what you're getting into...," which sounds a bit inflammatory, w=
as part of a promotional tag added by an email system.  Regards.
Messenger Café — open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served d=
aily. Visit now.http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_AugWLtagline=

13) From: Brett Mason
Hey George - no worries...
But a word of caution...  "Religion" is too simplistic a way to dismiss goo=
d
advice on this list.  You might want to think about that a bit.
I usually blow off the whole thing, and reply to comments like yours with a
simple "Try Folgers."  Because that's what it means when you ask a coffee
list for advice, and then just dismiss the advice...
Try Folgers,
Brett
  But that's just my religion...
On 8/24/07, George Kennedy  wrote:
<Snip>
y
<Snip>
d.
<Snip>
ast
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

14) From: George Kennedy
Okay, we'll go around again.
 
Hi, Brett,
I recall receiving advice and information from several people to whom I am =
grateful.  Advice such as "check this," "is that loose?", "is that broken?"=
 or "try cranking thusly."  I don't recall dismissing any of this advice.  =
"A Zassenhaus is perfect in every way" is not advice, it is religion. Citin=
g Tom as an authority is merely referencing a priest of sorts.  Do not misu=
nderstand me: I have great respect for Tom, his abilities, his discerning t=
aste and his obvious industriousness.  I am damn glad he does what he does.=
  But that doesn't mean I can't feel a Zass isn't great for drip grinding. =
 I regard Tom as a tasteful purveyor of fine goods.  It is customers who wo=
uld deny other customers their own discernment that bother me.  Ponder that=
 over whatever it is you drink.
Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more….then map the best rout=
e!http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&ss=yp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20th=eater&cp=42.358996~-71.056691&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=
=-1000&scene=950607&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01=

15) From: Rich
George,
Did you buy this grinder off of eBay shipped fom somewhere in Europe?  I gather you bought it recently 
and it looks to be in new - never used condition.  Is this all correct or have I missed something?  I am 
going somewhere with this....
--Original Message Text---
From: George Kennedy
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:31:55 -0400
P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } Okay, we'll go around 
again.
Hi, Brett,
I recall receiving advice and information from several people to whom I am grateful.  Advice such as 
"check this," "is that loose?", "is that broken?" or "try cranking thusly."  I don't recall dismissing any of 
this advice.  "A Zassenhaus is perfect in every way" is not advice, it is religion. Citing Tom as an 
authority is merely referencing a priest of sorts.  Do not misunderstand me: I have great respect for 
Tom, his abilities, his discerning taste and his obvious industriousness.  I am damn glad he does what 
he does.  But that doesn't mean I can't feel a Zass isn't great for drip grinding.  I regard Tom as a 
tasteful purveyor of fine goods.  It is customers who would deny other customers their own discernment 
that bother me.  Ponder that over whatever it is you drink.
Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more&.then map the best route! Find it! 

16) From: Rick Copple
George Kennedy wrote:
<Snip>
No problem on my end. I don't know about religion, more just reporting 
what my experience has been, what has worked and hasn't. But I'm using 
just one grinder. Mine may be closer to specs than another, or slightly 
different. I know it's been on the list that Zass has had some quality 
issues in the last few years. So it is possible the specs on the one you 
have are off slightly, who knows. Mine might be off slightly.
That said, from my experience with this one grinder, I've not had any 
problems with drip or pretty much whatever grind I needed for the brew 
method. But, that doesn't deny that you haven't had any. Probably 
neither of us have the broad based experience, however, to state that 
Zasses aren't or are good for drip in general, not unless you've tried 
several or several people with Zasses report the same problems and the 
percentages against are more than those with no problems.
If several on the list piped up and said they also experienced drip 
grinding problems with them, I would be more inclined to think that mine 
is an exception rather than the norm. But, it sounds like you are 
generalizing from your own experience, and so me or Brett saying we 
haven't had any problems is in essence putting into question that 
generalized statement more than anything. At least, that's my take.
There are grinders better than the Zass, that can grind finer, more 
consistently, but you have to shell out the money for them usually 
unless you can find a sweet deal. For the price range, however, its hard 
to beat the Zass, as long as you don't get one of those out of spec or 
with screwed up burrs.
Here's hoping your grinding issues will resolve. :)
-- 
Rick Copplehttp://www.rlcopple.com/

17) From: Larry Dorman
Those of you who have been around will recall that I repoted
extensively on my disappointing experience with my Zass...  I believe
mine had really bad QC on a model that probably isn't top notch in the
first place (the one with the open hopper).
At any rate, my experience with my current Zass would lead me to never
ever buy the exact same Zass product and be weary of buying any other.
I've not heard if the purported QC problems have been addressed...
LarryD
On 8/24/07, Rick Copple  wrote:
<Snip>

18) From: George Kennedy
Hi, Rich.  Hmmmmm.  To answer your question, yes, the dang thing came from =
Germany through Ebay.  (But if it's a fake, someone put an awful lot of wor=
k into making it look right...)  I'm interested to hear your thoughts!
Messenger Café — open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served d=
aily. Visit now.http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_AugWLtagline=

19) From: Lynne Biziewski
Larry -
What's QC?
On 8/27/07, Larry Dorman  wrote:
<Snip>

20) From: Rich
There was another post on the list this morning from a=
nother individual who purchased a "Zass" grinder 
from Germany off of eBay.  It also is a poor perform=
er.  My theory is that as Zass has been re organized=
, 
from what is probably the German equivalent of Chapter 1=
1, the receiver dumped all of the existing 
production on the German market.  As you know, when a =
company is growing down the tubes they cut 
corners.  You have one of these crap grinders.  All =
of the people who ae raving about how good the Zass =
is have an older one that was officially imported into =
this country.
There has been several postings out on the internet that=
 has made these same conclusions about the 
last run of Zass grinders before the re organization.
I do not know why someone else has not spoken up abo=
ut this.  I do not use a Zass so I was waiting f=
or 
the people with first hand info to speak up.  Instead =
you managed to get branded as a heretic.
I use a very old commercial Hobart grinder, it works v=
ery well thank you.  It is a model 275 and dates 
from the 30s or maybe earlier.  Huge 1/3 hp motor.  =
It is a genuine antique and is not made in Italy 
either.
Rich
--Original Message Text---
From: George Kennedy
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:41:02 -0400
P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FO=
NT-FAMILY:Tahoma } Hi, Rich.  Hmmmmm.  To 
answer your question, yes, the dang thing came from Germ=
any through Ebay.  (But if it's a fake, 
someone put an awful lot of work into making it look =
right...)  I'm interested to hear your thoughts!
Messenger Café  open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool =
activities served daily. Visit now. 

21) From: Rich
That would be Quality Control = QC
--Original Message Text---
From: Lynne Biziewski
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:50:36 -0400
Larry -
What's QC?
On 8/27/07, Larry Dorman  wrote: Those of you who have been around will recall 
that I repoted
extensively on my disappointing experience with my Zass...  I believe
mine had really bad QC on a model that probably isn't top notch in the
first place (the one with the open hopper). 
At any rate, my experience with my current Zass would lead me to never
ever buy the exact same Zass product and be weary of buying any other.
I've not heard if the purported QC problems have been addressed... 
LarryD

22) From: Brett Mason
QC is standard terminology for Quality Control - they're meaning that Zass
let their quality down apparently on some recent runs....
Probably right too...  I was sorry to hear of the few who paid good money
for a Zassenhaus and received something of lesser quality than I have
experienced in purchasing the old used ones....
Brett
On 8/27/07, Lynne Biziewski  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

23) From: True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
If the list recalls I managed an AWSOME score of Zass in Lisbon PO  I =
reallt don't know if they were old or not. according to the employees =
they had been there for a while but I personallt tested and made marks =
for expresso/AP/Drip/FP on each one and all performed flawlessly for me =
and my converts. 
 
I can tall some minor differences between my old Knee grinder and the 4 =
new ones that we got.  the brass label is just printed instead of having =
an inked relief (I hope that makes sense) my old one is very "loose" =
compaired to the new ones but other than that all the Zass I have =
personally seen were well made tools more than up for the task.  Side =
note I have started to use my 151 with my cordless drill and I tell ya =
it is Almost like having my own Rocky... FYI I use a socket on my drill =
(1/2 inch i think) just put it on the hex knob nut at the top of the =
shaft and away we go....10 sec later plenty of ground coffee!!!
 
Dennis

24) From: Rick Copple
Rich wrote:
<Snip>
I did mention it and don't recall branding anyone as a heretic. At least 
one other person I noticed chimed in afterwards to confirm that with 
their first hand experience.
For the record, I bought mine from Sweet Maria's I believe it was early 
part of 2004. So I've been using it daily for over three years now.
In relation to using a drill to power the Zass, as I understand it works 
pretty good. However, the one risk you run is wearing out the burrs 
before their time as they are designed for low speed grinding, and it 
comes with a lifetime guarantee which I'm sure using the drill would 
void the warranty to get them replaced, barring a good snow job to the 
company. So something to consider in using that route, but it does work.
-- 
Rick Copple

25) From: George Kennedy
Well, Rich, your theory is disturbing, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.  W=
hether it is or isn't, you surely get high marks for working in the word/id=
ea "heretic."  Very droll.  Damn, I wish I'd thought of it.  So, I don't kn=
ow where it can go from here.  Since these grinders are not serial numbered=
, there isn't any way of saying "these are from a good batch, and these fro=
m a bad..."  It makes used ones seem more of a crapshoot and new ones are b=
y no means certain.  I suppose the logical thing to do would be to put mine=
 side by side with one of known provenance and see how they do.  But I'm ce=
rtainly not willing to invest in another.  Not the least reason being that =
I have already learned some things for sure: I'm not willing to crank for f=
our minutes in the morning...before I've had my coffee.  I'm starting to he=
ar the siren song of a Macap or a Mazzer...  Anyway, thanks!
See what you’re getting into…before you go therehttp://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507=

26) From: Rich
I will add this about coffee grinders of the manual persuasion.  The antique wall hanging kind that 
have a glass jar on top and a small glass jar to catch the grounds almost always work well and are not 
expensive.  Arcade Crystal No3 grinder, or No4 etc.  These were built for use by the little lady and 
about 4 - 6 turns of the crank will fill the catch cup which holds about 4 ounces.  I am not pushing 
antiques other than these do work from personal experience.  They will not grind for espresso very 
well but do nicely for dip.  They were normally mounted on the side of the cabinet next to the sink, or 
on the wall.  They go on flea bay in the 50 to 70 range for a complete one.  If absolutely all original 
they will bring more, sometimes.  The grinding mechanism is cast iron and rather durable.
If you can find one of the big old electric grinders they work well also.
If you could measure the clearance between the tip of the movable burr and the fixed burr at all points 
of grinding you might find that the measurement is not consistent.  That would be the reason for a 
failure to grind coarse cleanly while still being acceptable for a fine grind.  This will require a lot of 
precision tooling....
List the Zass on ebay and see if you can recover the expense.
--Original Message Text---
From: George Kennedy
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 12:50:12 -0400
P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } Well, Rich, your theory 
is disturbing, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.  Whether it is or isn't, you surely get high marks for 
working in the word/idea "heretic."  Very droll.  Damn, I wish I'd thought of it.  So, I don't know where 
it can go from here.  Since these grinders are not serial numbered, there isn't any way of saying 
"these are from a good batch, and these from a bad..."  It makes used ones seem more of a crapshoot 
and new ones are by no means certain.  I suppose the logical thing to do would be to put mine side by 
side with one of known provenance and see how they do.  But I'm certainly not willing to invest in 
another.  Not the least reason being that I have already learned some things for sure: I'm not willing 
to crank for four minutes in the morning...before I've had my coffee.  I'm starting to hear the siren 
song of a Macap or a Mazzer...  Anyway, thanks!
See what youre getting into&before you go there See it! 


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